Cable Forum - Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

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Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

if you do look at all the evidence you might consider that your reference to the NUT annual conference begs the question whether you have considered the well known fact that the NUT annual conference tends to be well oil by the SWP and their allies. Therefore one finds it difficult to take the confernece seriously.

Excuse me? Because they have different political affiliations and beliefs, you can't take them seriously and you dismiss their opinions out of hand??

*That* says a lot about politics and the political process in this country!!

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Not really, it shows you know nothing in regard to politics within trade union branches or how organisations like the SWP and the extreme left work.

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Not really, it shows you know nothing in regard to politics within trade union branches or how organisations like the SWP and the extreme left work.

And, of course, those ways are *completely* different from the ways that political parties or business "empires" or any other such group or organisation work?! :rofl:

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Rather too busy for all this.

But if you do look at all the evidence you might consider that your reference to the NUT annual conference begs the question whether you have considered the well known fact that the NUT annual conference tends to be well oil by the SWP and their allies. Therefore one finds it difficult to take the confernece seriously. In addition the NUT is not affiliated to the Labour Party.

I do not wear rose tinted spectacles and neither do I think the sunshines out of whatever. You obviously don't read what I write.

It's not just the NUT who think City Academies aren't such a good idea....

http://education.guardian.co.uk/news...417701,00.html

Quote:

The first hard evidence on the effectiveness of academy schools reveals that they fail to significantly improve standards and could lead to a two-tier system of education based on social class, according to a government-commissioned report that was ignored by ministers.

The report by the consultants PriceWaterhouseCoopers, obtained by the Guardian under the Freedom of Information Act, casts doubts on whether the government's ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£5bn scheme to open 200 academies by 2010 will lead to new ways of learning in schools where traditional methods have failed.

(snip)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/st...447766,00.html

Quote:

It will be easy for defenders of the government to dismiss the latest proposal from the biggest teaching union as traditional Easter week militancy. Certainly its annual conference has a long history of disruptive counter-productive actions.

(snip)

First, it is not just the NUT that is opposed to the expansion of the programme before a proper evaluation has been carried out. Other classroom teaching unions as well as headteachers have expressed opposition. Second - and with no professional axe to grind - the Labour-led Commons select committee on education published a damning report last month that called on the government to scale down its programme until it had been properly evaluated. Third, a Guardian investigation under the Freedom of Information Act in February, showed ministers had gone ahead with their plan for the independent privately run academies despite a warning from an officially commissioned study that suggested they could fail to meet key goals. The study, by PriceWaterhouseCoopers, warned that academies could lead to "a two-tier system which results in an increase in stratification of students by social class".

(snip)

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris T

Whilst I'm finding this whole discussion immensely enjoyable, I can't help noticing we have drifted rather quickly from the key question, 'would John Smith have made a good PM?'

;)

:erm: :angel:

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Chris, you're just a pinko lefty Grauniad reader. No room for those on this forum :D

Could we set up our own?!

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Possibly a new thread in its own right but for all you PFI fans out there:

"The part-privatisation of the Tube has cost taxpayers almost ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£1bn, according to a House of Commons Public Accounts Committee report.
It also said maintaining and upgrading the network will cost ÃƒÆ’Ã†â€™ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…Â¡ÃƒÆ’Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£450m more than if finance came from government loans.

Under the deal the Public Private Partnership (PPP) firms do not have to end maintenance backlog until 2026 or complete some upgrade work until 2015."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4395621.stm

I know, kinda off topic but PFI has been raised here.

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

Chris, you're just a pinko lefty Grauniad reader. No room for those on this forum :D

Could we set up our own?!

You must be joking :) There's only a handful of people there who would dare mention their beliefs as centrist, or right... Almost everyone on here seems to be at least a mid leftie! (And yes I was suprised at the apparently high proportion of support for Tories in the poll, but if you count LibDems and Labour together as they are both on the left, its higher.).

As we are in the minority, we deserve the positive discrimination, special treatment, etc ;)

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

You must be joking :) There's only a handful of people there who would dare mention their beliefs as centrist, or right... Almost everyone on here seems to be at least a mid leftie! (And yes I was suprised at the apparently high proportion of support for Tories in the poll, it must have been rigged).

As we are in the minority, we deserve the positive discrimination, special treatment, etc ;)

I'm imagining all that liberal baiting and bashing then? ;) CF is the Monday Club Online!

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

I'm imagining all that liberal baiting and bashing then? ;) CF is the Monday Club Online!

Ditto with the conservative/centrist bashing. Put it this way, I certainly don't feel like I am ever in the majority with my political opinions (unless it happens to be on the left.)

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Ditto with the conservative/centrist bashing. Put it this way, I certainly don't feel like I am ever in the majority with my political opinions (unless it happens to be on the left.)

Maybe we're both paranoid. I know for certain they're out to get me ;)

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl

Maybe we're both paranoid. I know for certain they're out to get me ;)

:rofl: Well, the grass always looks greener.... doesn't it? I have always thought thought, strength in numbers and all that, if I spouted that Bush=Hitler stuff at least i'd have Graham and BBKing to hide behind

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Coming late into the discussion

Quote:

Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

He's dead, if he was alive he would never have been PM, who cares?

Sorry, that wasn't a constructive post.

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Fascinating subject City Academies, probably better taken up in another thread.

It's always a good thing I believe to always consider new ideas and ways to move forward in regards to education. City Academies need to be given time and of course whilst there are teachers who have reservations there are also teachers working within them. Teachers can be surprisingly conservative, there are exceptions, and do not welcome change in any form.

I was living and working overeas from the late 1980s and therefore I don't know much about John Smith, one always has to recall that the Labour Party was in an awful mess in the 1980s, it was at rock bottom. Kinnock's war on the Militant Tendency made a contribution to restoring Labour as an effective political party, John Smith may have indeed made a good premier, we shall never know.
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

And, of course, those ways are *completely* different from the ways that political parties or business "empires" or any other such group or organisation work?! :rofl:

When it comes to trade union grassroots politics I doubt you know much.

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogogo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

And, of course, those ways are *completely* different from the ways that political parties or business "empires" or any other such group or organisation work?! :rofl:

When it comes to trade union grassroots politics I doubt you know much.

When it comes to human nature, empire building and the tendency to try to achieve power by climbing on the backs of others, I think I know quite enough!

For you to suggest that there is, somehow, some sort of distinction between those and Trade Union branches/ the SWP etc without anything to back that assertion up, is not very convincing.

Re: Would John Smith Have Made A Good PM?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

When it comes to human nature, empire building and the tendency to try to achieve power by climbing on the backs of others, I think I know quite enough!For you to suggest that there is, somehow, some sort of distinction between those and Trade Union branches/ the SWP etc without anything to back that assertion up, is not very convincing.

Sometimes evidence is not in neat compartments for research purposes. I know these matters because of personal experience as once upon a time I was a regional officer for a teacher's union, therefore I have had real experience of just how the extreme left in trade unions work. You might however get some idea if just google swp teachers etc.