Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

You can be jailed for scraping a bit of metal remember.....or rather, defacing the Queen's image on a coin. I don't see the two 'offences' being all that different.

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

very well said. :tu:

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Quite right, defacing the image of the 'Queen' should be made legal :)

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Or burning bank notes. It's known as 'defacing the coin of the realm' - http://www.pomian.demon.co.uk/weights.htm also see http://www.gold.org/value/reserve_as...1870feb10.html point 7.

So our coinage is protected by law, but the flag isn't.

But anyone thinking that flag is 'just a piece of cloth' might have a look here http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/775016.stm to see just how much ire can be created over 'just a flag' - and not even national ones!

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

I don`t see how that invalidates my position that it is just a piece of cloth. To me it just strengthens my opinion that people get too worked up over a bit of cloth.

To those who argue that the important thing is what the flag represents, ie. the UK, that suggests to me that there there isn`t anything more worthwhile that can be considered to be representative of this country.

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

I'd be a bit more afraid of the fanatics who follow him, and whom he may well incite to commit rather unpleasant acts, be it on a person or a country.

As for the flag, I can think of a few laws that he might be considered to be breaking. I doubt we'll se them being enforced though. But as you say, it's just a piece of cloth. So here's an idea... why don't you go and stand in front of the worshippers and burn a few pictures of Allah, then we'll see what all the fuss is about?

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Oops, there *ARE* no pictures of Allah, nor indeed of Mohammed because such things are proscribed by Islam...!!!

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

I think the point here is that Hamza is happy to live in this country and take all of the support that it gives him. In the meantime he rants on about destroying it, and then goes on to burn it's national flag! If he really loathes it so much, why does he stay? And before you say "it's a free country", that's not the ideal that HE is pursuing.
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OK, the chap they worship with the beard. No, not Jeremy Beadle! And certainly not Rolf!

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke :clap:

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

By that token the Bible or Koran are 'just books' and nothing to get worked up over either.

No-one is arguing that only the flag represents the UK, nor that it's the only worthwhile representation.
We are arguing that it is a sufficiently worthwhile representation of the UK to warrant more respect than it gets.

And this is not only true of the Union flag - just ask any people who are proud of their heritage, and they'll tell you.

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

As an aetheist I would apply that argument to all religions. To me they are "just books", some of the most popular fiction in the world today.

Ok, then justify why a piece of cloth deserves respect? Surely it should be the factors that it represents that deserve respect?
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In fact, I guess that if you were to burn a picture of Allah it would be looked upon positively as you are destroying a forbidden image.

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Or is it that the cloth represents those factors which should be respected and therefore in turn it too should be respected?


However printing a passage from the koran on something which is designed to be thrown away is offensive (as McDonalds found out when they inlcuded the Saudi Flag on their paper bags during a previous olympics)

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

So, as I have been arguing, the flag itself does not have anything intrinsic about it to be respected, so therefore I don`t see why I should respect it.

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

Exactly. To you they are. But you wanted to know why so many people other than you got in a lather about these things.
I'm sure there are things you believe in you wouldn't tolerate others making light of. And if not, then more pity you.

Sometimes the symbol of respect is equally important as the respect itself.

Do you not shake someone's hand when you meet them? Why do you do that?

It's only a symbol that you are not holding your sword - i.e. you're not armed, and hence your approach is peaceful. But it can also mean much more: http://www.canoe.ca/LifewiseWorkOffice00/handshake.html

So by showing enough respect to the flag not to burn it, means you at least recognise the values it represents.
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Which reminds me...

Mummy: What's that you're drawing George

George: God

Mummy: But no-one knows what God looks like!

George: They will when I'm finished.

;)

Re: Abu hamza attacked
 

So just because you don't respect it, it's OK to burn it? What about the millions of Britons who DO respect it, who might find the burning offensive? And what about the many that fought for the flag, and died? Sorry you don't respect the flag, but I do.