Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

I get the impression this is being done to appease those that always say afterwards that "the police did nothing to prevent it".

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

And if the people who had done it had used the name or alias Pierre, you'd be happy to be considered a suspect and potential terrorist...???

And what is "acting suspiciously"? Or is it sufficient that four men "of Islamic appearance" are near an airport that would be enough for them to be searched?

Presumption of innocence? Oh that's not important...

Sorry, who is this "us" you are talking about?? And what makes "them" separate from "us"? These are very often *UNITED KINGDOM CITIZENS* we are talking about!

They are *US*!!
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Ah, the first Straw Man of the thread...! :rolleyes:

We are talking about a *minority* of Muslims that are a threat, tarring the members of an *entire religion* as potential terrorists based on nothing more than how they look or what clothes they wear is just a *little* excessive.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

A term of endearment I assure you :)

Not misinterpreted, there's no mistake. They have interpreted it for the maximum effect to sell papers or get a good story. No where in any quotes do I see:

1. The have been instructed to stop and search more Asians
2. The asian community will just have to accept it.

For the love of god will you READ what she says:

Would you argue with that????

"Counter terrorism powers", phone tapping, surveilance, house searches - poosibly stop and search but highly bloody unlikely unless by sheer chance they happen to nab Bin Laden as he leaves his local chippy.

Again please argue against this - or should we target Chinatown town in case Al-qaeda are all in fancy dress and using a chinese laundry as a front?
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2 times more likely than what, where, how percentages and "times's as likely" do not tell you anything

They have a paper to sell don't they.

The headline Hazel Bears tells it, the way it is and shes right too. is not as juicy is it??

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Oh look, the second Straw Man.

(I really should have had a sealed envelope with predictions of all these in so I could open it and tick them off as they turned up :rolleyes: )

Firstly can you *prove* that I am *more* at risk of "being blown up" by innocent Muslims being harassed because of the actions of a minority? I doubt it.

Secondly it could be argued that I *am* more at risk *because* of this harassment causing disaffected Muslim youths to be driven towards the extremists "in revenge" for the treatment they are getting.

All behaviour like this does is breed fear, suspicion and hatred and drives a wedge between "them" and "us" instead of bringing us *closer* together so we can fight the terrorist threat from both sides.

The vast majority of Muslims decry and despise the terrorists as much as anyone, but if we then consider *them* to be a threat simply because they share the same religious beliefs (although not necessarily the methods) we risk doing more damage that would outweigh any possible benefit of "safety".
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And *we* aren't doing ourselves any favours by attitudes like this!

Do you *really* think that most Muslims *want* to see these acts of terror committed in the name of their religion? No, of course not.

But when *we* just look at them and say "hmm, Muslim, may be a terrorist" or "they're letting terrorists get away with it", there may be some who would respond "in which case, screw them, let them get blown up. They don't care about us, why should we care about them?"

We should be *helping* them stop terrorists, not alienating them.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

And can you tell me how to spot a "terrorist" Muslim amongst "innocent" Muslims? And the same principle could be applied to any group. If you had reason to believe that Spaniards were goint to cause an outrage, you wouldn't just seek out the ones that "look like" they belong to ETA?

And my previous point: I would have no objection to being stopped and searched, as I have nothing to hide.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Hear hear!

Exactly! It doesn't sell newspapers, so why give it prominence.

The fact it gives a totally biased and one-sided picture is a mere detail.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

On Radio London this morning this very topic was being discussed, it was mentioned there that under the new terrorism legislation the police *don`t* need a reason to stop and search if they claim that they are doing it for terrorism prevention reasons, so effectively it is a big catch-all clause.

Not sure how right or wrong that comment is, but the page you linked to does have a 2002 copyright date on it, so it may not be completely up to date.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Don't know if I'd be happy, but what I thought wouldn't matter, I'd either be suspect or I wouldn't.

Possibly, that would be a judgement for the police at the time as to what they thought.

Who said they were guilty, "hello sir, do you mind if I ask you few questions and have alook arounf and inside your vehicle? It'll just take few minutes and then you can be on your way"

Point taken - not a good choice of words.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

We have heard what the govt shouldnt be doing.........So what should the govt be doing about a muslim terrorist threat? :)

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Sorry, how many people with explosive waistcoats have we had in UK shopping malls or on buses or in market places...???
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And some members of the Black community will say the same about their "brothers". And some of the Irish community... and some of the Criminal community...

And whilst we're at it, at school you didn't grass your mates up to teacher either... :rolleyes:

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

.....and they should be helping us stop terrorists......but they don't appear to be very enthusiastic about doing so. :(
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ermmmmm........so what? :confused:
The fact remains that a muslim has told me that many other muslims that she knows would be reticent about reporting 'subversive' activity to the authorities.
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But they would look pretty f'kin stupid if the four were terrorists and the police hadn't stopped them because they looked like muslims :D ;)

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

It is not necessary for her to *explicitly* mention it, it is *implicit* in what she says.

Yes, but then, as you go on to say...

You see, it's this word "disproportionately" that gives problems.

If the response was *proportionate* to the threat, I wouldn't necessarily object so greatly, but she's *not* talking about it being "proportionate".

She's talking about treating an entire *religion* as suspects.

It is no use alienating an entire culture and religion when you should be trying to get them *on* your side.

:rofl: Oh, that's *priceless* Pierre!!

You're asking everyone to calm down then you say something grossly offensive and inflammatory to the entire Islamic religion saying that *all* of their condemnations of terrorist are nothing but "lip service" and implying that, secretly they're actually approving of these actions and want them to succeed.

:banghead:

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Is everyone playing nicely in here? :)

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

How many do you want? And how many does it take for you to perceive it to be a threat? Answer: None. And none. Wait for it to happen and it's no longer a threat.

What is being proposed are "preventative" measures, not punishments. Punishment comes after the act. I know which I would prefer to happen.

Re: Muslims should expect to be stopped....
 

Whoops! There goes another one on the list...

You have the *right* to be *presumed innocent*. That is a most basic and fundamental right of justice in this country, yet you are seemingly content to toss that away without a thought because you think it will make "a safer world".

And once again I quote Ben Franklin: "Those who would give up essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

If we lose the right to the presumption of innocence we risk extending what is *already* happening in places like Belmarsh Prison and with the government's intended "house arrest" orders with people being locked away without a fair trial, without any *proof* of their guilt and without them being able to even challenge the order!

There are plenty of people in this world who have used such powers. Mugabe, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Ceaucescu, Pinochet...

What a merry band to join...

You miss the point. It is *ALREADY* unbearable. It should *NOT* be this way and just because *you* are sitting there smugly thinking "I'm alright, Jack" does *NOT* make it alright for others who are suffering from these infringements.
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So because we can't *spot* a terrorist, since they're not wearing big signs saying "I'm a terrorist" we should assume that *ANYONE* who looks vaguely Muslim may be a terrorist and thus should be happy to have their basic rights violated...???

I suggest you look up the meaning of the word "injustice"... :rolleyes: