Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

And this is another classic example of conspiracy theory nonsense. It asks lots of leading questions, but doesn't supply any answers, just tries to make itself sound credible.

If these terrorists were capable of doing such an act, why did they bother with hijacking planes in the first place? Couldn't they have done the same to the WTC?!

By those blokes with the Black Helicopters, of course.

And you are an expert on Air Crashes? Or have you just seen some documentaries on TV? (Most of which don't feature aircraft hitting buildings!)

Some people will believe whatever they want to believe *no matter* what evidence is stuck in front of them. Most of them, however, are not conspiracy theorists.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

OK, so Islamists wanted to attack the Pentagon. We agree thus far.

Yep, still agreed.

And so it falls apart. The evidence supports the conclusion that the terrorists were intent on using planes to attack buildings; that they hijacked four planes to that end; that they succeeded on three counts and failed on the fourth. There is no credible evidence that positively asserts the Pentagon was hit by something other than Flight 77. There is only the usual conspiracy theorist's fare: questioning the evidence for a conclusion they don't like with a series of contradictory, badly researched statements. (Such as the classic, 'it was definitely a bomb, I could smell the cordite'. :dozey: )

If there is some doubt. Which there isn't.

And here is the core of all good conspiracy theories. The unquestionable (not to mention entirely unproveable) assumption that the government must have something to hide.

Now you're just floating about in cloud cookoo land. This whole event unfolded in the full glare of the international news media. Which quick-witted special agent do you suppose managed to cook up all that false information, and do it so fast that everyone (including United Airlines, or whoever it was) believed it too? And made the world believe that 70-odd non-existent people endured fake deaths in the name of covering up some super-missile hijacked by Bin Laden? And convinced 70 families to go through 70 staged funerals? Get real.

Spoke the expert in aircraft disasters. Another classic symptom of the conspiracy theory: armchair 'experts' who know what cordite sounds like, what kind of pattern aircraft make when they hit the ground and the way in which a fuselage will crumple when subjected to high-velocity impact.

No, I will believe what the evidence overwhelmingly suggests I should believe. Believing what you want to believe is a hobby enjoyed by conspiracy theorists.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

ooh I'll try and use my brains then, just for you Mr Intelligentia.
Theres no denying that.
Agreed
yes, something did. I'm still with you
QED - fantastic.

Why is there only one hole then? if one engine managed to enter several tens of metres why doesn't the other even make a dent?

Why didn't the brilliant minds of the USA government point this out. I'm sure they have expert crash investigators. Maybe you should let them know.

I have, and it didn't explain it to anything like satisfaction.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

There was a program on ages ago about crash tests. I remember they were doing tests like a train crashing to one of the containers they use to transport nuclear waste. They also had a test where they flew a jumbo into a large strong concrete wall or something similar. The plane completly disintegrated.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Just a theory, I don't have any answers.



Comic genius



No, but I am a Chartered Civil Engineer and do have some structural knowledge reading the website you advised me to read. The Pentagon advised on how they had recently reinforced the structure of the building. Sufficient enough to stop a plane, but not it's nose. I do note that they have now changed that to engine.

Personally I'm not arsed either way, I just find interesting, I don't believe it all adds up.

And by the way, NO I don't think we landed on the moon either.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

So who planted that flag up there???




Ok, never mind....... :(

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Well of course it would. Whilst it may be a large structure it is fairly fragile when subjected to stresses that it was not designed for. If you think of an aircraft like an extended vacum cleaner hose (which is pretty much what the main hull looks like) in a frontal impact, the sides of the hull would concetina up and disintegrate.

The hole, with a lack of other information is highly likely to be an engine, where is the other, well all sorts of other structures are in the way, perhaps a concrete lift shaft slowed it.

The fire certainly had more fuel to it than a simple missile could provide perhaps a few thousand tonnes of Jet A. The heat that created would also be sufficient to melt aluminum to finish what was left of the hull.

The fires in the North and South towers were hot enough that the hulls of the two 'craft were not recovered, why are there no conspiracies there?

One I remain open on, I do believe the Appollo missions went to the moon, however did they do it in the 60s? This said there were enough people around to track a projectile that hung around in LEO for the duration that this would need to be a conspiracy that involved the russian, Japanes and european space agencies. Being as it was a cold war race against the ruskies, I doubt this.

Though the photograps do leave questions.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

True, but from what I have seen there is enough evidence to question it.

There is doubt in my mind.

Of course its unproveable. What you want me to prove it? Pierre secret agent. Of course it's unproveable.

Very far fetched I'd have to agree

[quote]Spoke the expert in aircraft disasters. Another classic symptom of the conspiracy theory: armchair 'experts' who know what cordite sounds like, what kind of pattern aircraft make when they hit the ground and the way in which a fuselage will crumple when subjected to high-velocity impact.[quote]

As I mentioned to Graham, I do have some knowledge of structures. There are impact standards that have to be applied to structures of a certain height. The Pentagon had several walls of thick reinforced concrete. The jets that hit the WTC only went essentially through glass and steel and they disintegrated almost immediately. Yes they left an entry hole but neither plane made it through the building. The Pentagons construction is far beyond that of the WTC yet we are to beleive the plane distintegrated on impact but still managed to penetrate the 3 rings of the building.


As you wish

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

The WTC would have had a concrete centre would it not for the lift shafts etc?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

Yes, but it would not have been structural concrete and would have been thin walls with light reinforcement purely for the thermal shrinkage of the concrete.

The WTC was a steel framed building all the strutural forces would have been taken by the frame.

The pentagon had 2feet thick reinforced walls with metal "tubes" I can only assume like scaffold poles. Then several more reinforced concrete walls after that.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/trusstheory.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...disaster/3.stm
It did not take up much of the structure, the concrete core would have been what ripped the wings off and resulted in the fuel spill.

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It would easily be cleared up.

this link is to a photo that was take by a security camera o/s the Pentagon. As the 'plane' exploded.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07...res/index.html

Assuming that the camera was there all the time where are the photos of the plane just "before" it hits the building?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

So where is the wreckage?

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

I agree that the impact site of the Pentagon does on first impression look odd for it to have been hit by a 757 travelling at - what 400kts ?? One small (comparatively) hole and no signs of impact from the wings or engines.

I would've expected two holes for the engines and what I could only describe as a 'splat' mark for the fuselage, much like a fly on a windscreen.

An aluminium fuselage end on would most likely concertina rather than act like a dart passing through - what - 6 or more walls of thick heavily reinforced concrete.

Also where the wings attach to the fuselage there are a number of high strength spars which would also IMO exert major damage, but none is evident.

But then I am no expert. :dozey:

I do have to say that I believe there is far more compelling evidence to suggest it was the 757, not least where did the real aeroplane with all its pax go ?? :confused:

The whole thing is an enigma. :erm:

Re: What did hit the Pentagon?
 

It melted / cremated.