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Xaccers 20-02-2006 16:13
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris T
Extradite them to where? A lot of the hotheads who are going on these marches were born here and are as British as you or I.
In which case you strip them of their citizenship for a set period.

Chrysalis 20-02-2006 16:14
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Tell them they have x amount of days to leave or face imprisonment. Where they go wouldnt be our problem.

Chris 20-02-2006 16:18
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers
In which case you strip them of their citizenship for a set period.
How would you do that? Would you be happy for such a punishment to exist for a British citizen who converted to Islam but whose ancestry has been in this country for centuries?

basa 20-02-2006 16:22
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
Tell them they have x amount of days to leave or face imprisonment. Where they go wouldnt be our problem.
Now we are fantasising :erm: extradition / repatriation whatever ain't gonna happen :erm:

The best / only thing we can do is prosecute and punish as appropriate (probably a slap on the wrist and a lifetimes free housing !! :rolleyes: )

Mr Angry 20-02-2006 16:24
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
I agree with what Xaccers says extradite them, may sound mean but end of the day the country has laws and anyone living here I would expect to be respectful of its traditions and values. I don't mark all muslims with the same brush, the ones who disagree with the comments in the protests and are peaceful I am happy for them to live here.
How would you police that - are you proposing the establishment of some sort of "thought police"?

Would you extradite all criminals who break the law and show disrespect for Britain's traditions and values - or just those pesky swarthy skinned ones?

Chrysalis 20-02-2006 16:28
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Now you brought up nationality I will bring an interesting point up.

I think been british nationality and having citizenship are 2 different things. Sport is a good way to prove this, you might have a football player born here who has a greek dad and english mother he fails to get into the england team so decides to play for greece and qualifies because his dad was greek. Do you think all these protesters see themselves as british? if this country was invaded tommorow do you think they would defend it or immigrate to another easy country? this is how I am more british then these morons they would get out and go to a peaceful country I would stay and defend my country until I die, my family tree is british as far ip as I can see it. This makes me more british.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry
How would you police that - are you proposing the establishment of some sort of "thought police"?

Would you extradite all criminals who break the law and show disrespect for Britain's traditions and values - or just those pesky swarthy skinned ones?
You can extradite someone no matter what colour their skin is and it would apply to those promoting terrorism, wether you white brown or black.

ScaredWebWarrior 20-02-2006 16:32
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris T
Extradite them to where?
Quite...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris T
A lot of the hotheads who are going on these marches were born here and are as British as you or I.
If that was the case, then I don't think they'd be doing/saying what they are.

Saaf_laandon_mo 20-02-2006 16:34
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior
Since a poll is supposed to be a measure of the section of the population targetted (in this case Muslims) this result is apparently quite indicative of the whole Muslim population of the UK.

So no, it is not the majority of UK Muslims who want sharia law, but apparently a large percentage of them would. And I would consider 40% a pretty significant proportion. (Since the UK has an electoral system where 40% of the population can actually elect a government...)
As you point out, that was in the Sun...
I disagree. Such a small sample population cannot represent the views of Muslims in the UK. You're talking of less than 1% of the UK muslim population. If I took 100 people from the streets (all white and english) and 40% when questioned said they were racist, would it make the majority of white english people racist?

As for 40% of the UK population being able to elct a governemt, ur not telling me only 500 people voted are you? The comparision is not valid.

And yes the statements I printed were in the Sun. Read by millions of people of which the majority are said to believe everything they read. Thats why its not good.

Mr Angry 20-02-2006 16:41
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
This makes me more british.
.

And I rest my case.

Ramrod 20-02-2006 16:44
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Enough of this talk of extraditing 'them'. 'They' are British, whether we like it or not, whether they feel like they are or not. They cannot be sent 'home' because even if they don't feel like they are British/English and despise everything that being western stands for, they don't have anywhere else to go.

ScaredWebWarrior 20-02-2006 16:56
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo
If I took 100 people from the streets (all white and english) and 40% when questioned said they were racist, would it make the majority of white english people racist?
That sample would be too small. But yes, if you got a 40% response from a suitable sample group, then you might be able to infer that.

Obviously, if your 'random' sample is taken as people leave a BNP rally, then it would no longer be representative.

Try finding out a bit more about how polls are done. The ICM results, as they stand, do suggest that a 40% 'minority' of British Muslims would welcome sharia law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo
As for 40% of the UK population being able to elct a governemt, ur not telling me only 500 people voted are you? The comparision is not valid.
I'm not saying only 500 voted, but I AM saying that with only 40% of the vote of all the voting adults in the UK it IS possible to win a general election - in fact, it has happened in recent years.

You're confusing your numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo
And yes the statements I printed were in the Sun. Read by millions of people of which the majority are said to believe everything they read. Thats why its not good.
But the Sun isn't quite a white anti-muslim supremacist paper, so it's not nearly as worrying as the poll results themselves.

---------- Post added at 15:56 ---------- Previous post was at 15:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
Enough of this talk of extraditing 'them'.
Those comments have discredited the people that made them, since they clearly haven't got a grasp of the basics, never mind anything more complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
'They' are British, whether we like it or not, whether they feel like they are or not.
British Muslims are muslims who were born into British citizenship. Ergo, their nationality is British. If any other country were to 'deport' them, they'd end up here.

We could only 'extradite' them is they committed a crime in another country and that country requested their extradition. And I suspect that our judicial system would not extradite to any of the countries that some of the posters would like to have 'them' sent back to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod
They cannot be sent 'home' because even if they don't feel like they are British/English and despise everything that being western stands for, they don't have anywhere else to go.
That's not entirely true...

If they don't like it here, no-one is keeping them here. They're free to travel. They could even emigrate to <whatever muslim country> if they felt they'd be more at home there.

The truth is, I think some of 'them' would have a bit of a culture shock if they did - they'd find that it's nothing like Britain, and they'd probably start wishing that they'd stayed and appreciated this country better.

Xaccers 20-02-2006 16:57
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris T
How would you do that? Would you be happy for such a punishment to exist for a British citizen who converted to Islam but whose ancestry has been in this country for centuries?
This has nothing to do with Islam (as I'm sure you're not saying attacking Britain is a pre-requisite to being a muslim)

I'm talking about anyone who is a british citizen and attacks this country.
Not in a "bloody england, always raining, the busses are never on time" sort of way which, I'm sure was pointed out in the What it is to be British thread is actually something quite stereotypically british.
I'm talking about what could be called pettit treason.
People who abuse the benefit system for instance, wether through religous/political malice, or bone idleness, have them lose their citizenship for a while so that they have to work to survive.
Surely that is better than locking them up where it costs the state even more money?

If someone plots to overthrow the monarchy or goverment, that is treason.
If someone plots to attack fellow brits in a terrorist manor, or attempt to incite other people to do so, then they are no longer british and should have their status changed accordingly.
Likewise, someone in the army who abuses prisoners or civilians (such as the americans in abu grahb), this is behaviour unbecoming to a British citizen and again, as such should have their status changed to reflect this.

Saaf_laandon_mo 20-02-2006 17:01
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers
This has nothing to do with Islam (as I'm sure you're not saying attacking Britain is a pre-requisite to being a muslim)

I'm talking about anyone who is a british citizen and attacks this country.
Not in a "bloody england, always raining, the busses are never on time" sort of way which, I'm sure was pointed out in the What it is to be British thread is actually something quite stereotypically british.
I'm talking about what could be called pettit treason.
People who abuse the benefit system for instance, wether through religous/political malice, or bone idleness, have them lose their citizenship for a while so that they have to work to survive.
Surely that is better than locking them up where it costs the state even more money?

If someone plots to overthrow the monarchy or goverment, that is treason.
If someone plots to attack fellow brits in a terrorist manor, or attempt to incite other people to do so, then they are no longer british and should have their status changed accordingly.
Likewise, someone in the army who abuses prisoners or civilians (such as the americans in abu grahb), this is behaviour unbecoming to a British citizen and again, as such should have their status changed to reflect this.
Well if you're ever thinking of campaigning for PM and tahts your manifesto, you'll certainly have my vote

Russ 20-02-2006 17:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers
People who abuse the benefit system for instance, wether through religous/political malice, or bone idleness, have them lose their citizenship for a while so that they have to work to survive.
Whilst this is off topic and I'm sure would be worthy of a thread in itself, I disagree that everyone who abuses the benefit systems should have their citizenship removed. I'm not saying to abuse the system is right or advisable but there are occasions where someone who is just scraping by might do that sort of thing to feed their family. Again I stress I'm not saying to 'fiddle the social' is ever right but to take away someone's citizenship just because their financial status means they needed to feed their children through unlawful means doesn't seem fair as a blanket rule.

However the ones who are blatantly milking the system to fund their lifestyle, that's a different matter IMO.

Xaccers 20-02-2006 18:39
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ D
Whilst this is off topic and I'm sure would be worthy of a thread in itself, I disagree that everyone who abuses the benefit systems should have their citizenship removed. I'm not saying to abuse the system is right or advisable but there are occasions where someone who is just scraping by might do that sort of thing to feed their family. Again I stress I'm not saying to 'fiddle the social' is ever right but to take away someone's citizenship just because their financial status means they needed to feed their children through unlawful means doesn't seem fair as a blanket rule.
Totally agree, removal of citizenship, just as with imprisonment should not be automatic on conviction to cater for such cases which are minor or accidental.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ D
However the ones who are blatantly milking the system to fund their lifestyle, that's a different matter IMO.
And there is a minority of muslims who deliberately avoid paying tax and scrounge off the state as a form of attack, draining its resources and encouraging other muslims to do the same.
Incidently, a lot of this minority are former asylum seekers, coming here because they claim to be under threat from their own countries.


I have a strong view on what it is to be british, or rather what someone who is british should not do, and I'm proud to be british.
I also, thanks to my experiences, have a strong view on what it is to be muslim.
There is no reason why someone who is a british muslim should do anything which tarnishes their britishness for the sake of their religion.

Chris 20-02-2006 23:25
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers
I also, thanks to my experiences, have a strong view on what it is to be muslim <snipped> .
Eh ... would you mind clarifying that - did you have a go at being a Muslim?

Chrysalis 21-02-2006 00:46
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry
.

And I rest my case.

I think you are broke of from reality, their are people living in this country but have no respect for it or the culture. When the terrorists hit the twin towers I had a guy at work blabbing of saying how cool it was, its people like that who dont deserve to live here. Many of my work mates and some were muslims themselves were disgusted with him and shared my view, on the other end of the scale I grew up near some very peaceful muslims who were very respectful for our culture and always spoke english as first language etc.

Now you think that my comment about british nationality and citizenship been different is wrong but I disagree, I think if you have a long history of british born relatives who were living here through the war and back you will be more attached to this country and its values and as such essentially more british. I know of people who were born here but their parents nationaility down on job applications, they just dont see themselves as british.

Maggy 21-02-2006 02:11
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
I hope this thread is not representative of the true situation out on the streets.


:tiptoe:

Mr Angry 21-02-2006 08:08
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
I think you are broke of from reality, their are people living in this country but have no respect for it or the culture. When the terrorists hit the twin towers I had a guy at work blabbing of saying how cool it was, its people like that who dont deserve to live here. Many of my work mates and some were muslims themselves were disgusted with him and shared my view, on the other end of the scale I grew up near some very peaceful muslims who were very respectful for our culture and always spoke english as first language etc.

Now you think that my comment about british nationality and citizenship been different is wrong but I disagree, I think if you have a long history of british born relatives who were living here through the war and back you will be more attached to this country and its values and as such essentially more british. I know of people who were born here but their parents nationaility down on job applications, they just dont see themselves as british.
What, pray tell, had the Twin Towers or 9/11 to do with British culture?

What I quoted was your "This makes me more British" statement. A clear indicator of xenophobia when one is talking about their fellow countrymen, and a poor excuse for the thin end of the racist wedge. British people who engage in this type of "them & us" and cite family trees and war history would do well to look at their monarch in a similarly critical / historical fashion. A queen born of German descent and a Greek. How British are they in your opinion / subject to your qualifying criteria?

You can't hide from the fact that Britain is fast becoming / has become a multicultural, progressive society. If you are so stuck in the past and resistant to change then perhaps it's you who needs to think about how you fit in.

timewarrior2001 21-02-2006 08:19
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Britian is being FORCED to be mulitcultural and its breaking down at just about every opportunity.
Muslims can publically call for the Death of a race yet non muslims are arrested for inciting racial hatred for doing the same thing????? Is that unbiased, I think not. Is it fair? I think not. Is it multucultural? I think not, it benefits those of other races over our own race, there should be NO difference in the way th elaw treats anyone. FULL STOP. I should not be given preferential treatment because of the colour of my skin, my religion, my sexual orientation or my gender. FULL STOP.

But **** happens, and it goes to show that a proportion of "muslims" living here want to kill us. Why should I tolerate that? why should I not walk the streets calling for the murder of muslims? Because although no more illegal, because I would be arrested and because more poeple would find it distastefull and would be branding me a racist quicker than those muslims doing the same thing.

Ramrod 21-02-2006 09:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry
What, pray tell, had the Twin Towers or 9/11 to do with British culture?
She was using a british muslims reaction to the 9/11 incident as an example of how someone can be british and yet not be deserving of a place in our society......

Russ 21-02-2006 11:49
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4735216.stm

Get ready for a worldwide backlash and riot from Catholics.....

I can just see it now, 80 year old nuns demanding the death penalty to all those who follow Cartman....

Derek 21-02-2006 12:12
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ D
I can just see it now, 80 year old nuns demanding the death penalty to all those who follow Cartman....
Sorry Punky but you'll have to kill yourself to make up for it. :Yikes:

Ramrod 21-02-2006 12:51
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
1 Attachment(s)
:d

ScaredWebWarrior 15-03-2006 15:23
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Arrests have been made:
Quote:
Five men have been arrested over their alleged role in protests against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad, Scotland Yard said.

The five were alleged to have taken part in the 3 February demonstration which took place in London.
They took their time!

Russ 15-03-2006 15:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
I saw more than 5 people waving banners...

Derek 15-03-2006 15:43
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ D
I saw more than 5 people waving banners...
Obviously the police have now realised they can't identify the ones wearing masks and scarves round their faces :rolleyes:

Now if they had lifted them/confiscated the banners at the time we wouldn't be left with a bunch of them getting away with it and police time being wasted poring over hours of video trying to identify suspects.

Maggy 15-03-2006 16:07
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
The police may just be getting started...

Nugget 15-03-2006 16:27
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior
Arrests have been made:
They took their time!
But what would you prefer? I'd much rather the police took 5 or 6 weeks and arrest people who they know have broken the law, than to have people arrested within minutes and then be released without charge :shrug:

Derek 15-03-2006 16:35
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget
But what would you prefer? I'd much rather the police took 5 or 6 weeks and arrest people who they know have broken the law, than to have people arrested within minutes and then be released without charge :shrug:
Prevention is better than detection. If they had seized the banners at the time then they wouldn't have to worry about arresting them now.
Instead they seemed more worried about arresting the people there to defend free speech :rolleyes:

ScaredWebWarrior 15-03-2006 21:15
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget
But what would you prefer? I'd much rather the police took 5 or 6 weeks and arrest people who they know have broken the law, than to have people arrested within minutes and then be released without charge :shrug:
No problem with that at all. But I had to say something more than just post the link :)

Nugget 16-03-2006 09:38
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior
No problem with that at all. But I had to say something more than just post the link :)
Good point, well made :)

basa 16-03-2006 10:03
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Now why does the phrase too little, too late spring to mind ?? :erm:

Ramrod 03-01-2007 18:31
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
It seems that one of the marchers is up for inciting racial hatred..........
Quote:
A British Muslim called for the murder of American and Danish people during a protest against cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad, the Old Bailey was told today.

The court heard that Umran Javed, one of the leaders of a demonstration in London, attempted to rally a crowd to launch terrorist attacks, shouting: "Bomb, bomb Denmark. Bomb, bomb USA".

Mr Javed, 27, from Birmingham, denies charges of soliciting murder and stirring up racial hatred.
link
link

SMG 03-01-2007 22:36
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Personaly, I`m sick & tired of listening to these people gripe & groan. They continually rant & rave about their rights. They are the most self centered people on the face of the planet. Its all about them, all the time. Its time they got a life, & used it for something more constructive than ranting & raving about nowt.

Hugh 03-01-2007 22:42
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34190544)
Personaly, I`m sick & tired of listening to these people gripe & groan. They continually rant & rave about their rights. They are the most self centered people on the face of the planet. Its all about them, all the time. Its time they got a life, & used it for something more constructive than ranting & raving about nowt.
We're not that bad! We just enjoy posting on the CF.:D

Nugget 03-01-2007 23:03
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34190560)
We're not that bad! We just enjoy posting on the CF.:D
It's because we've got nothing better to do. Anyway, can you imagine if we all emerged into the light to march on Westminster? Most of us haven't seen natural light in years - it'd be like Salems Lot :D

Hugh 03-01-2007 23:19
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget (Post 34190593)
It's because we've got nothing better to do. Anyway, can you imagine if we all emerged into the light to march on Westminster? Most of us haven't seen natural light in years - it'd be like Salems Lot :D
We probably wouldn't do it unless guaranteed wifi access whilst marching ;)

Salami's Lot - was that about blood sausages?

Saaf_laandon_mo 03-01-2007 23:44
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34190544)
Personaly, I`m sick & tired of listening to these people gripe & groan. They continually rant & rave about their rights. They are the most self centered people on the face of the planet. Its all about them, all the time. Its time they got a life, & used it for something more constructive than ranting & raving about nowt.
tired of listening to people gripe and moan?

kettle
pot
black

rearrange above to suit...............

Hugh 04-01-2007 00:23
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34190648)
tired of listening to people gripe and moan?

kettle
pot
black

rearrange above to suit...............
"sharp intake of breath"

You said "kettle"!!! :D

TheDaddy 04-01-2007 10:22
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget (Post 34190593)
It's because we've got nothing better to do. Anyway, can you imagine if we all emerged into the light to march on Westminster? Most of us haven't seen natural light in years - it'd be like Salems Lot :D
More like a cross between snooker players and the Moorlocks from Time Machine :Yikes: imo, your right though it'd be a spectacle :D

Ramrod 04-01-2007 10:38
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34190648)
tired of listening to people gripe and moan?

kettle
pot
black

rearrange above to suit...............
Thats rich since non-muslims don't tend to carry out suicide bombings, or fly planes into buildings. Perhaps you could offer up a more constructive viewpoint?

Hugh 04-01-2007 10:44
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34190873)
Thats rich since non-muslims don't tend to carry out suicide bombings, or fly planes into buildings. Perhaps you could offer up a more constructive viewpoint?
To be fair, it was in reply to the post below, not to do with suicide bombings/missions (and Tamil Tigers are Hindu).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34190544)
Personaly, I`m sick & tired of listening to these people gripe & groan. They continually rant & rave about their rights. They are the most self centered people on the face of the planet. Its all about them, all the time. Its time they got a life, & used it for something more constructive than ranting & raving about nowt.

Saaf_laandon_mo 04-01-2007 10:44
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34190873)
Thats rich since non-muslims don't tend to carry out suicide bombings, or fly planes into buildings. Perhaps you could offer up a more constructive viewpoint?
its called being sarcastic mate - Ive seen many a post where SMG has moaned and groaned about things. Its ironic that people fed up of others moaning and groaning all the time usually do a fair bit themselves.

danielf 04-01-2007 10:54
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34190873)
Thats rich since non-muslims don't tend to carry out suicide bombings, or fly planes into buildings. Perhaps you could offer up a more constructive viewpoint?
I thought SLM made a valid point. You resurrected this thread by posting about someone being in the dock for statements made during the marches. I'd been wondering why it hadn't come up. Some people on here are very quick to talk of 'pandering to muslims' etc, and them getting away with just about everything. When something to the contrary happens (someone is in the dock for statements that caused a bit of an outcry on here), all that some people can come up with is 'I'm sick and tired of their ranting and self-centeredness'. It sounds like someone is trying to find an excuse to have a moan since he can't moan about nothing being done. Pot - Kettle - Black. Quite rightly. (Must type faster)

Ramrod 04-01-2007 11:40
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 34190884)
I thought SLM made a valid point<snip> It sounds like someone is trying to find an excuse to have a moan since he can't moan about nothing being done. Pot - Kettle - Black. Quite rightly. (Must type faster)
If thats the case then I stand corrected....sorry SLM :nworthy: :)

jtwn 04-01-2007 11:45
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34190297)
It seems that one of the marchers is up for inciting racial hatred..........

Quote:
A British Muslim called for the murder of American and Danish people during a protest against cartoons portraying the Prophet Muhammad, the Old Bailey was told today.

The court heard that Umran Javed, one of the leaders of a demonstration in London, attempted to rally a crowd to launch terrorist attacks, shouting: "Bomb, bomb Denmark. Bomb, bomb USA".

Mr Javed, 27, from Birmingham, denies charges of soliciting murder and stirring up racial hatred.
link
link
How can somebody be so vocal about it at one time, then deny it another? Obviously feels strong enough about their religion that justice to them comes before it.

Escapee 04-01-2007 20:39
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 34190884)
I thought SLM made a valid point. You resurrected this thread by posting about someone being in the dock for statements made during the marches. I'd been wondering why it hadn't come up. Some people on here are very quick to talk of 'pandering to muslims' etc, and them getting away with just about everything. When something to the contrary happens (someone is in the dock for statements that caused a bit of an outcry on here), all that some people can come up with is 'I'm sick and tired of their ranting and self-centeredness'. It sounds like someone is trying to find an excuse to have a moan since he can't moan about nothing being done. Pot - Kettle - Black. Quite rightly. (Must type faster)
In my case I would of added the story to this thread if I had seen it.

His hateful comments to encourage attacks on the west adds more weight to people like me who comment on the so-called religion of peace.

Escapee 05-01-2007 21:41
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6235279.stm

An update

Hugh 05-01-2007 21:46
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 34191323)
In my case I would of added the story to this thread if I had seen it.

His hateful comments to encourage attacks on the west adds more weight to people like me who comment on the so-called religion of peace.
Or to put it another way, so-called followers of the religion of peace. ;)

SMG 16-02-2007 02:29
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf (Post 34190884)
Some people on here are very quick to talk of 'pandering to muslims' etc, and them getting away with just about everything. When something to the contrary happens (someone is in the dock for statements that caused a bit of an outcry on here), all that some people can come up with is 'I'm sick and tired of their ranting and self-centeredness'. It sounds like someone is trying to find an excuse to have a moan since he can't moan about nothing being done. Pot - Kettle - Black. Quite rightly. (Must type faster)
First, I dont moan & groan about everything. Only the kind of rubbish I see on the news & most of it is how badly Muslims are treated. I do find it quite annoying that with most newscasts we see "Muslims" chanting about "Their rights". Like it or not, it is all about them. They are a minority religion in this christian country, they are a minority group also. It should follow that this "minority" percentage would be reflected in the media, but it isnt. This small percentage appears to have a lot to say, & none of it is for the benefit of the country, only themselfs. I dont see many news reports of Muslims doing anything constructive for this country. I do hear about how some of these people want to change our laws for the laws they left behind, how they want more control over our councils, its not for our benefit. I dont see any muslim groups or leaders on TV calling for Muslims to denounce terrorism, just the usual crap about our troops in Iraq.

Now we hear that a group of these *****rs planned to execute a British soldier. I don't need an excuse to moan about these worms, I`m ex Army, my family is Army, we have all been to Iraq serving our country more than once. You lot have the right to voice your opinions because of people like me, my lads, & some of you, who, together with thousands of other soldiers fought for that right. No wonder the BNP are gaining popularity. Watching the way this country is going, sometimes, I wonder if it was worth it.

DABhand 16-02-2007 05:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
And what your saying that every middle eastern country is sympathetic to terrorists who are going to kill a soldier?


That is an extremist view. And a very one sided one at that.


People from Pakistan, India, Iran, Saudi, Israel, Jordan, etc are all different religions and beliefs.

Just because some chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

Hatred among races has gone way back, and do remember it was the English who were the slavers, who where taking blacks to America, who were taking over other minority countries. So who is the agressor you may ask. Looking into your country's history will reveal that.

Also, im fed up with how people moan about how they are coming over to steal our jobs and how refugees are taking our dole money.

1. People who come over and work, arent stealing jobs, they are qualified to do them and are prepared to work hard, or work hard on their own business. While Joe Bloggs who is moaning rather sit on their arses all day drinking dole money and causing havoc.

2. Refugees can NOT work for a set amount of years, its law, so they have to sign on. Thats true. And yet the populace are ignorant on this fact and wouldnt find out about it, they rather cry foul and blame them. When the fact of the matter is almost all refugees want to work, but they simply are not allowed to.

Russ 16-02-2007 08:47
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34223638)
Just because some chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.
OK...so why be part of a protest if they're not sympathetic to it? And while it's true they might not all have the same extremist beliefs, surely it would be an excellent gesture if they distanced themselves from such extremism?

Xaccers 16-02-2007 09:36
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34223651)
OK...so why be part of a protest if they're not sympathetic to it? And while it's true they might not all have the same extremist beliefs, surely it would be an excellent gesture if they distanced themselves from such extremism?
Russ, I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying, just because some muslims protested doesn't mean all muslims are sympathetic to it.
Similarly, if some christianesque group marched calling for all non-christians to be booted out of the country, by being a christian yourself wouldn't mean you are sympathetic to them.

SMG 16-02-2007 11:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
I'm not saying all Muslims are a pain in the ****, just the minority radicals. Immigrants & asylum seekers are constantly in the news, a few days ago 4 asylum seekers were jailed for murder, one got 30 years. Its not as if its a one off either. Whatever the Brits did years ago, we've paid for it since, & we are all living a good lifestyle off the back of it.

Dabhand, what nationality are you, obvious not British, otherwise you wouldn't use the words "Looking into your country's history will reveal that".

Mr Angry 16-02-2007 11:36
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34223769)
Dabhand, what nationality are you, obvious not British, otherwise you wouldn't use the words "Looking into your country's history will reveal that".
Irrespective of what nationality Dabhand might be it's a perfectly legitimate phrase for a British person to use when talking about Britain. It shows an open approach to nationality as opposed to the much more secular "our".

TheDaddy 16-02-2007 12:01
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34223651)
OK...so why be part of a protest if they're not sympathetic to it? And while it's true they might not all have the same extremist beliefs, surely it would be an excellent gesture if they distanced themselves from such extremism?
Or held a counter march, I seem to remember Catholic mother's marching against the atrocities of the IRA in Ireland.

I am sure that Muslims will say that it's not their responsibility to speak out, fine then, don't expect people to think any different then especially when reports are published saying that a quarter of Muslims are sympathetic to terrorists

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...l23.xml&page=1

SMG 17-02-2007 00:18
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34223774)
Irrespective of what nationality Dabhand might be it's a perfectly legitimate phrase for a British person to use when talking about Britain. It shows an open approach to nationality as opposed to the much more secular "our".
Well, I`m surprised to hear you say that. Last time, (& the 4 times before) I was posted to NI, loyalists would call Britain "our" country with a certain amount of determination & pride. In fact, they would fight you for saying different. Only the repo`s called it "your" country. I didn't know it had changed so much so I mentioned it this afternoon to my bro in Larne, as far as he knew, things hadn't changed.

Ramrod 17-02-2007 00:46
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34223638)
And what your saying that every middle eastern country is sympathetic to terrorists who are going to kill a soldier?


That is an extremist view. And a very one sided one at that.
Well it's one side thats bombing us here so excuse me if we get a bit 'one sided' about it as well....remember 7/7, 9/11, Bali, Lisbon? :dozey:


Quote:
People from Pakistan, India, Iran, Saudi, Israel, Jordan, etc are all different religions and beliefs.

Just because some chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.
Yeah, right....So why are they marching in the same demonstration? :dozey:

Quote:
Hatred among races has gone way back, and do remember it was the English who were the slavers, who where taking blacks to America, who were taking over other minority countries. So who is the agressor you may ask. Looking into your country's history will reveal that.
Who is the agressor?! Is anyone alive in the UK today responsible for the slave trade that occured in Africa 100+ years ago? How the hell are we the agressors in those terms?
btw.....there wouldn't have been any major slave trade if Africans and arabs weren't perfectly happy to capture and sell black Africans to white slavers......Africans and arabs were complicit in that slave trade. I suggest you remove those pc blinkers from your eyes m8....

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34223673)
Similarly, if some christianesque group marched calling for all non-christians to be booted out of the country, by being a christian yourself wouldn't mean you are sympathetic to them.
But he would be if he marched in the same rally....

---------- Post added at 23:46 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34223774)
Irrespective of what nationality Dabhand might be it's a perfectly legitimate phrase for a British person to use when talking about Britain. It shows an open approach to nationality as opposed to the much more secular "our".
I disageree. 'Your' and 'our' are two different/opposing outlooks....imo....

TheDaddy 17-02-2007 00:53
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
[quote=Ramrod;34224306]Who is the agressor?! Is anyone alive in the UK today responsible for the slave trade that occured in Africa 100+ years ago? How the hell are we the agressors in those terms?
btw.....there wouldn't have been any major slave trade if Africans and arabs weren't perfectly happy to capture and sell black Africans to white slavers......Africans and arabs were complicit in that slave trade. quote]

Is any Britain still alive that ended the trade in human flesh, seeing as we are casting stones into history lets remember it was Britain that ended slavery and slavery has never been legal in Britain, also if Britain hadn't had an Empire would those countries be better of, for a start they would almost certainly have been colonised by another European country, whose rule would have been considerably worse than that of our own, judging by their other colonies

Xaccers 17-02-2007 00:53
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224306)
But he would be if he marched in the same rally....
That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:
Quote:
Just because some chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.
Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

After all, he was talking about muslims in various countries in the same paragraph, stating that they all have different beliefs.
I can see why you and Russ understood it the way that you have, and I have to say you could well be right.
Perhaps Dab can come back and clarify?

Ramrod 17-02-2007 01:06
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34224314)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224306)
Who is the agressor?! Is anyone alive in the UK today responsible for the slave trade that occured in Africa 100+ years ago? How the hell are we the agressors in those terms?
btw.....there wouldn't have been any major slave trade if Africans and arabs weren't perfectly happy to capture and sell black Africans to white slavers......Africans and arabs were complicit in that slave trade.
Is any Britain still alive that ended the trade in human flesh, seeing as we are casting stones into history lets remember it was Britain that ended slavery and slavery has never been legal in Britain, also if Britain hadn't had an Empire would those countries be better of, for a start they would almost certainly have been colonised by another European country, whose rule would have been considerably worse than that of our own, judging by their other colonies
Indeed....:tu::(

---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34224316)
That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:


Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.
I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are :disturbd:

Mr Angry 17-02-2007 05:27
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34224292)
Well, I`m surprised to hear you say that. Last time, (& the 4 times before) I was posted to NI, loyalists would call Britain "our" country with a certain amount of determination & pride. In fact, they would fight you for saying different. Only the repo`s called it "your" country. I didn't know it had changed so much so I mentioned it this afternoon to my bro in Larne, as far as he knew, things hadn't changed.
Which proves my point regarding secular attitudes, thanks.

Xaccers 17-02-2007 11:22
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224329)
I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are :disturbd:
Remember, his post was in response to SMG who was talking about muslims in general, not those who marched, so I would suggest the [muslims in general] I interjected refers not to the marchers but to muslims who did not participate, extending as far as muslims around the world.

Hence my point that if some sudochristian bigots went on a march calling for all non-christians to be deported, it doesn't mean that all christians (as in all christianas in the world) sympathise with the march.

DABhand 17-02-2007 12:03
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34224316)
That's just it, I don't read it as that.
Dab said:


Which I read as :
Just because some [muslims] chose to march in protest about something else does NOT mean they [muslims in general] are all sympathetic to that march or have the same beliefs.

After all, he was talking about muslims in various countries in the same paragraph, stating that they all have different beliefs.
I can see why you and Russ understood it the way that you have, and I have to say you could well be right.
Perhaps Dab can come back and clarify?

Yep thats exactly what I mean.

Just had dyslexia in my typing fingers lol (no offence to any sufferers)

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224329)
Indeed....:tu::(

---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

I see your point but that just means that he is talking out of his a*se because no one joins a rally if they don't believe in what it's aims are :disturbd:

Here ill break it into Seasame Street English


The nasty Muslims that go marching.....

The good Muslims Stay at Home.....

Good Muslims no like what nasty Muslims march for, they no go to march

Not all Muslims bad Muslims!


Only skinheaded one thought single celled people think all Muslims bad, they Bad with capital B for Country, they should be taken and beaten and thrown in big pit of jaggy things.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34223769)
I'm not saying all Muslims are a pain in the ****, just the minority radicals. Immigrants & asylum seekers are constantly in the news, a few days ago 4 asylum seekers were jailed for murder, one got 30 years. Its not as if its a one off either. Whatever the Brits did years ago, we've paid for it since, & we are all living a good lifestyle off the back of it.

Dabhand, what nationality are you, obvious not British, otherwise you wouldn't use the words "Looking into your country's history will reveal that".

Im Scottish :P Most of you are English :P

Ramrod 17-02-2007 12:12
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34224465)
Here ill break it into Seasame Street English


The nasty Muslims that go marching.....

The good Muslims Stay at Home.....

Good Muslims no like what nasty Muslims march for, they no go to march

Not all Muslims bad Muslims!
I get the idea of what you meant to say......
......and what about the slavery b*llocks you were spouting?

DABhand 17-02-2007 12:12
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224306)
Well it's one side thats bombing us here so excuse me if we get a bit 'one sided' about it as well....remember 7/7, 9/11, Bali, Lisbon? :dozey:
Remember the slaying of red indians for the lands in America, remember the slaying of scottish men,women and children to make way for sheep, remember the cruel taskmasters who would beat the slaves in the colonies etc.

Yes they may have happened many years ago, its history, so was the terrorist attacks (which were terrible).

Its like the chicken and the egg what came first. In this case who started the whole war first.

The white man on his boat and claiming to be all superior?

Or the non-white man who defended his country and family? (which has escalated to what it is today)

Quote:
Yeah, right....So why are they marching in the same demonstration? :dozey:
Did they really, did that include Tibetan Monks also? Arabs? Muslims? Egyptians? Syrians?

NO, Arabs are not muslims, Tibetan Monks are not muslims either. Muslims have a seperate religion like a Protestant and Catholic church, both of those are different.

Quote:
Who is the agressor?! Is anyone alive in the UK today responsible for the slave trade that occured in Africa 100+ years ago? How the hell are we the agressors in those terms?
btw.....there wouldn't have been any major slave trade if Africans and arabs weren't perfectly happy to capture and sell black Africans to white slavers......Africans and arabs were complicit in that slave trade. I suggest you remove those pc blinkers from your eyes m8....
You sure that the arabs (maybe you mean Muslims according to you since they all march together) did it on their own free will? Remember English colonies in those days were cruel.

And the Dutch and Spanish where the main slavers of the time, the Dutch operating most of Africa.

Xaccers 17-02-2007 12:57
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34224473)
You sure that the arabs (maybe you mean Muslims according to you since they all march together) did it on their own free will?
There was a thriving slave trade in Africa long before Europeans arrived on the scene first run by Africans, capturing members of a rival tribe and removing them through slavery.
In Byzantine times, having an African slave in the middle east was a sign of wealth.

Perhaps this link will help?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African..._within_Africa

SMG 17-02-2007 13:26
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Bit of confusion here. My previous post said I was referring to Muslims who, for one reason or another, appear on the news, ranting & raving, or committing crime. I do not say all Muslims are a pain in the ar*e.

Mr Angry. Your reply explains nothing. Except the possibility that you are republican.

The Daddy. Quite right, Women did march for peace. However, they didn't rant, chant, burn flags, or call for anyones death.

Dabhand. Your British m8. I'm British, (English), like it or not, its now politically correct. If you check your passport. It wont say "Scottish citizen" nor does mine say "English citizen". They say "British citizen".

Mr Angry 17-02-2007 14:17
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Sorry SMG, you seem to have misinterpreted the jist of my reply.

Acknowledging your incorrect assertion that there are / were only two facets to NI society (loyalist & republican) you stated that "loyalists would call Britain "our"." I'm merely referencing the fact that, by your own example, secularism in the form of "ours" and "theirs" is not a good thing. I think 30 odd years of murder pretty much proves my point.

"Mr Angry. Your reply explains nothing. Except the possibility that you are republican."

I'm afraid you're "conclusion jumping" there.

SMG 17-02-2007 19:09
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Angry (Post 34224566)
Sorry SMG, you seem to have misinterpreted the jist of my reply.

Acknowledging your incorrect assertion that there are / were only two facets to NI society (loyalist & republican) you stated that "loyalists would call Britain "our"." I'm merely referencing the fact that, by your own example, secularism in the form of "ours" and "theirs" is not a good thing. I think 30 odd years of murder pretty much proves my point.
I'm afraid you're "conclusion jumping" there.
I'm sorry m8, I don't think I am. My initial comments related to Dabhands reference to the word "Your", in the context of him belonging to Great Britain. Its my opinion that when you belong to, or are part of, then you would refer to that as "Our". If you do not belong, or are not part of it, then you refer to it as "Your".

On your second point of sectarianism, you know that the 2 major players are the loyalists & the republicans. I don't remember many newscasts which regularly referred to other, minor groups. You know as well as I do, that this conflict resulted in many deaths, probably people you know, certainly friends I knew. I had a sweaty ar*e on many an occasion. Right or wrong, segregation, sectarianism creates conflict. Civil war, people arguing, fighting, killing. In that regard I fully agree with you that "it is not a good thing". Perhaps we should "Agree" to "Disagree" with a few points.

"30 odd years of murder" certainly shows that conflict is not good, however, it has no relation to my ascertains regarding the use of the words "Your" & "Our". Like I said, its my opinion. If we all had the same views, we`d have nowt to talk about, nowt to argue, fight or kill for, & a lot of lives would be spared.

My views & opinions appear to be hard, but thats only with living a very outgoing life, & witnessing the suffering & deprivation inflicted on innocent people. You can watch killing on TV anytime. When you witness it first hand, it affects you in ways you couldn't imagine. Life takes on a whole new meaning. Back in the 70`s, I watched the parades in NI, first hand. I heard the ranting, chanting, & death threats spouted by both sides. It led to more conflict & killing.

I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.

AdamD 17-02-2007 20:56
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
I have nothing against muslims, but all this protesting, riots and whatnot against things like the cartoon and other things they get "offended" over, are only going to stir up more hatred for their "kind" (so to speak)
Or rather, their religion, beliefs etc.

Ramrod 17-02-2007 22:16
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34224473)
Remember the slaying of red indians for the lands in America, remember the slaying of scottish men,women and children to make way for sheep, remember the cruel taskmasters who would beat the slaves in the colonies etc.
No, I don't remember because I wasn't alive when that happened. Neither was anyone else atm....I'll say this in Sesame street English:
We aren't responsible for what people did in the olden days....please don't try to hold me to account for something that somebody elses ansestors did (I'm not English). For that matter, don't hold the living English responsible either, they didn't do it!

Quote:
Yes they may have happened many years ago, its history, so was the terrorist attacks (which were terrible).
But it's very recent history m8, the difference is that the terrorists paymasters and organizers and future recruits are still alive....

Quote:
Its like the chicken and the egg what came first. In this case who started the whole war first.
Well it probably wasn't the victims of the many past and future muslim terrorist bombers.....

...and I think I'll leave it to Xaccers to remove your rose tinted glasses with his history lesson about slavery.....

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34224771)
I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.
:clap:

DABhand 18-02-2007 03:13
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34224897)
No, I don't remember because I wasn't alive when that happened. Neither was anyone else atm....I'll say this in Sesame street English:
We aren't responsible for what people did in the olden days....please don't try to hold me to account for something that somebody elses ansestors did (I'm not English). For that matter, don't hold the living English responsible either, they didn't do it!
Neither did most of the muslims who did or did not march on that day. You cant have your cake and eat it too btw. Which brings us to...

Quote:
But it's very recent history m8, the difference is that the terrorists paymasters and organizers and future recruits are still alive....

Well it probably wasn't the victims of the many past and future muslim terrorist bombers.....

...and I think I'll leave it to Xaccers to remove your rose tinted glasses with his history lesson about slavery.....
Not all muslims are terrorists, the march wasnt about pro terrorism either, it was about other issues, mainly how others perceive them to be terrorists.

So if you wish to perceive them as them being so, then I can perceive you as an english subject being a slaver, football holligan, lager lout, unemployable, and lots more. Not fair huh to be named all those.

Whats good for the goose...


Unfortunately these days you have extremist groups, not only one one side but on both.

You have your radical and religious groups on one side, and you have your old fashioned we are the superior race and bigosts on the other.


Xaccers: Yes there was slave trading way back since man could walk, but the example I was giving was 18/19th century history, and at that time the Dutch at the end of the 18th were the power in Slaves. So much so that their influence still lingered in South Africa for centuries.


My point about the english slavers was this, I dont see the reason why people whose own historical background was of such a manner should stand on a soap box and complain of another race of people who are protesting about things.

Why because slavery was abolished in England just under a century ago, does that make the English better? Or can say and do what they like against other races? No. ((for your Info the Scottish did not have a Slave Trade))

That is why the world is in such a state as it is, instead of people treating others as equals they are looked upon as inferior, due to their religions, their color, their education and so forth.

SMG: I may have a British Passport, but I am a Scottish Citizen and this is where I was born, if I choose to be called Scottish then that is my choice, as is if I were to wish to be called British then I shall.

But Id rather be called a Scottish Citizen than British, thanks all the same :)

Mr Angry 18-02-2007 03:15
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Hi SMG,

I respect your opinion - but is there not a glaring anomaly between

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34224771)
Right or wrong, segregation, sectarianism creates conflict. Civil war, people arguing, fighting, killing. In that regard I fully agree with you that "it is not a good thing".
And

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34224771)
Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.

DABhand 18-02-2007 03:18
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34224771)
I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.
Welcome to Democracy.

Where all peoples have a say.


Remember also though, these marches are peaceful until the extremist groups start a riot.

Its happened with the Ravers, The poll tax demo's, etc etc


Again thats a very very racist view to say that other races/religions are causing civil wars? I mean jeez louise, very very bold statement.

Like I said before, groups like your anarchists and extreme wing groups are causing this, which is forcing those people to march in protest so something can be done about them.

Has it worked?

Have they stopped the BNP, have they stopped these Nazi Right Wing Groups? Nope, nothing has been done, and they continue to harrass and cause havoc.

As a nation, do we not owe it to our friends who come to live and make a life here to make their lives peaceful and free from prejudice.

Or do you wish them to be singled out, and used for the propoganda machines out there.

Ramrod 18-02-2007 10:07
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34225070)
Neither did most of the muslims who did or did not march on that day. You cant have your cake and eat it too btw. Which brings us to...



Not all muslims are terrorists, the march wasnt about pro terrorism either, it was about other issues, mainly how others perceive them to be terrorists.

So if you wish to perceive them as them being so, then I can perceive you as an english subject being a slaver, football holligan, lager lout, unemployable, and lots more. Not fair huh to be named all those.

Whats good for the goose...
What are you on about? I have already admitted I misunderstood your statement about the marchers (poor syntax, the lateness of the hour etc....) but you are now completely backpedalling from your statement about all of us being responsible for slavery etc. You said in #352:
Quote:
Hatred among races has gone way back, and do remember it was the English who were the slavers, who where taking blacks to America, who were taking over other minority countries. So who is the agressor you may ask. Looking into your country's history will reveal that.
Now you are trying to wriggle out of that statement.....

Russ 18-02-2007 10:38
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34225115)
but you are now completely backpedalling from your statement about all of us being responsible for slavery etc.
No, he said the English were responsible - us Taffs, Scots and Paddies must be the good guys :D

Hugh 18-02-2007 12:01
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ B (Post 34225123)
No, he said the English were responsible - us Taffs, Scots and Paddies must be the good guys :D
At last - something that isn't our fault -Yay!:D

Damien 18-02-2007 12:06
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
I see Muslims marching, ranting, chanting, shouting death threats, & I don't want to see it anymore. I don't want to keep hearing about it, & I don't want to hear any more about Islam. I just want to live in peace. So my personal message is simple, whoever you are, black, white, or somewhere in between. Whatever your religion, Christian, Muslim etc, keep it to yourself, stop inflicting it on others, stop inciting conflict & leading my country into civil war.
We are not heading for civil war, also I would like to see a lot of things stop but thats not the way the world rocks. All you can do in control the world around you to a small extent. You can feel that when you see a muslim being a bit of a pillock to ignore it and not feel it as representive of all muslims. You dont presume that everytime you see a black person talking they represent black people.

I was watching Brass Eye the other day, the program is over 10 years old. Yet ironically it feels modern. The issues people complain about are the same. Decline, Crime, Drugs, Immigration, Other religions. All the same issues that people on here get fired up about.

Mr Angry 18-02-2007 13:12
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
"Nonce sense" - Genius!!

SMG 18-02-2007 22:32
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Dabhand.

In reply to various sections of your last 3 posts M8.

You tell me that I have a very very racist view. Well, I thought about an answer, but I can only say, if thats what you think, OK. However, my posts are not racist, you will find I included everyone from black to white, and all religions. So, I think you must be misunderstanding me.

I did not say that other races/religions are causing civil wars. Although this statement is historically true, differences in race/religion/culture have been the cause of not only civil war, but behind most wars that have ever been fought since time began. I actually said, "leading my country into civil war".

You say "As a nation, do we not owe it to our friends who come to live & make a life here to make their lives peaceful & free from prejudice". To a certain extent, yes, but I also expect immigrants & the people we save from tyranny & death to be grateful for our generosity, to ease themselves into our society, to settle in without making a fuss, to learn & respect our culture, & at the very least, learn the language & pledge allegiance to GB. Not to act like ranting, chanting, lunatics, threatening to kill the very people who are protecting them.

Your a Scotsman. You wish to remain a Scotsman. Fine, I want to remain an Englishman. Unfortunately, Its neither your choice nor mine. Government has decided that we are British. First, second & last. End of story.

Damien.

You say "We are not heading for civil war". I hope your right. However, I have come to learn that statements have very little meaning in reality. Perhaps you have heard the speech by Ex Prime Minister Nevil Chamberlain, on the 28th September, 1938. He returned from Munich after meeting with a guy called Adolf Hitler, & negotiating a peace agreement for Europe. As he walked down the steps of his aircraft, he held up his hand & said "I have in my hand, a piece of paper, signed by Herr Hitler". "Peace in our time". What an epitaph. What a mistakatomakea. WW2 broke out shortly after. But, I also respect your opinion.

Hugh 18-02-2007 23:19
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
What is the relevance of Chamberlain agreeing with Hitler to let him invade the Sudetenland got to do with today?

The current British Prime Minister hasn't agreed to let a foreign power invade another country recently.................... oh, right-o. :D

TheNorm 18-02-2007 23:35
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34225739)
... but I also expect immigrants & the people we save from tyranny & death to be grateful for our generosity, ....
Oh for goodness sake!

Grateful for our generosity? The vast majority of immigrants work very hard and pay their taxes. They follow the rules and have the right to live here. They are not "guests sleeping in the spare bedroom", they are "tenants paying the rent".

Locky 18-02-2007 23:53
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34225797)
Oh for goodness sake!

Grateful for our generosity? The vast majority of immigrants work very hard and pay their taxes. They follow the rules and have the right to live here. They are not "guests sleeping in the spare bedroom", they are "tenants paying the rent".
wrong ! the vast majority do NOT work hard they leech, look at all this gun crime in manchester and london, who exactly is commiting them ? i dont even need to say u alredy know

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34225073)
Welcome to Democracy.
Have they stopped the BNP, have they stopped these Nazi Right Wing Groups? Nope, nothing has been done, and they continue to harrass and cause havoc.
the bnp dont need stopping they need VOTES they are trying to keep england ENGLISH and free from all this well u know what.. andthye dont harrass and they dont cause havoc do they, nope.

Hugh 18-02-2007 23:55
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225803)
wrong ! the vast majority do NOT work hard they leech, look at all this gun crime in manchester and london, who exactly is commiting them ? i dont even need to say u alredy know

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------



the bnp dont need stopping they need VOTES they are trying to keep england ENGLISH and free from all this well u know what.. andthye dont harrass and they dont cause havoc do they, nope.
Thank you for representing the BNP in a true light.

Locky 19-02-2007 00:00
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timewarrior2001 (Post 692056)
Britian is being FORCED to be mulitcultural and its breaking down at just about every opportunity.
Muslims can publically call for the Death of a race yet non muslims are arrested for inciting racial hatred for doing the same thing????? Is that unbiased, I think not. Is it fair? I think not. Is it multucultural? I think not, it benefits those of other races over our own race, there should be NO difference in the way th elaw treats anyone. FULL STOP. I should not be given preferential treatment because of the colour of my skin, my religion, my sexual orientation or my gender. FULL STOP.

But **** happens, and it goes to show that a proportion of "muslims" living here want to kill us. Why should I tolerate that? why should I not walk the streets calling for the murder of muslims? Because although no more illegal, because I would be arrested and because more poeple would find it distastefull and would be branding me a racist quicker than those muslims doing the same thing.
EXACTLY YOU SHOLD BE A POLITICIAN

---------- Post added at 23:00 ---------- Previous post was at 22:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34225820)
Thank you for representing the BNP in a true light.
no problem, i just hope more people do the same.. the bnp are NOT sucm but the people thye despise and oppose ARE

Xaccers 19-02-2007 00:06
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225803)
wrong ! the vast majority do NOT work hard they leech, look at all this gun crime in manchester and london, who exactly is commiting them ? i dont even need to say u alredy know
:rofl:

Sorry, exactly how do they leech?
Pray do tell.
Lets hear it.
What's that? Free housing? Nope immigrants don't get that, asylum seekers do, but sorry, if you don't think that someone seeking asylum should be sheltered by Britain, then I'd prefer it if you didn't call yourself British or English, it would be too much of an insult to decent Brits who believe in doing the right thing.
Dole money? Oh hang on, only EU citizens can get that after working for 6 months and at the rate they'd get in their home country, so not really worth coming all this way to get the same as they could get at home if they wanted the dole. Immigrants from non-EU countries can't.
Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work, so they're given reduced benefits in order to feed themselves, again if you think we shouldn't help people in need then please, don't call yourself a member of this great nation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky
the bnp dont need stopping they need VOTES they are trying to keep england ENGLISH and free from all this well u know what.. andthye dont harrass and they dont cause havoc do they, nope.
:rofl:
Perhaps you've not seen the rap sheets of several BNP members.
Perhaps you aren't aware of the human excriment one used against neighbours because they weren't white.
Perhaps you're unaware that one member promised to vote against reduction in bus services for OAPs then promptly voted for it.
Perhaps you're unaware of the member who wasn't intelligent to understand what was being discussed in council.

The BNP claiming to be British is an insult.
The BNP claiming to be a viable political party is a joke.

Locky 19-02-2007 00:10
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34225828)
:rofl:

Sorry, exactly how do they leech?
Pray do tell.
Lets hear it.
What's that? Free housing? Nope immigrants don't get that, asylum seekers do, but sorry, if you don't think that someone seeking asylum should be sheltered by Britain, then I'd prefer it if you didn't call yourself British or English, it would be too much of an insult to decent Brits who believe in doing the right thing.
Dole money? Oh hang on, only EU citizens can get that after working for 6 months and at the rate they'd get in their home country, so not really worth coming all this way to get the same as they could get at home if they wanted the dole. Immigrants from non-EU countries can't.
Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work, so they're given reduced benefits in order to feed themselves, again if you think we shouldn't help people in need then please, don't call yourself a member of this great nation!



:rofl:
Perhaps you've not seen the rap sheets of several BNP members.
Perhaps you aren't aware of the human excriment one used against neighbours because they weren't white.
Perhaps you're unaware that one member promised to vote against reduction in bus services for OAPs then promptly voted for it.
Perhaps you're unaware of the member who wasn't intelligent to understand what was being discussed in council.

The BNP claiming to be British is an insult.
The BNP claiming to be a viable political party is a joke.
as long as they do sumthing about the err "minorities" going out of control, i realy cudnt care what they do

Xaccers 19-02-2007 00:12
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225829)
as long as they do sumthing about the err "minorities" going out of control, i realy cudnt care what they do
What minorities going out of control?

You mean the tiny group who called for beheddings and have been arrested and chaged and found guilty?
Sounds like control to me.


You really don't care what politicians are like as long as they do a good job of making non-whites (or do you consider non-whites who were born here as not members of a minority?) know they are second class citizens?

Stuart 19-02-2007 00:35
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225803)
the bnp dont need stopping they need VOTES they are trying to keep england ENGLISH and free from all this well u know what.. andthye dont harrass and they dont cause havoc do they, nope.
Nooo, of course the BNP don't cause havoc.. The members do (and have the rap sheets to prove it).

So, yes. The BNP does need to be stopped. As do any other Nazi parties.

SMG 19-02-2007 01:03
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm (Post 34225797)
Oh for goodness sake!

Grateful for our generosity? The vast majority of immigrants work very hard and pay their taxes. They follow the rules and have the right to live here. They are not "guests sleeping in the spare bedroom", they are "tenants paying the rent".
Yes. Grateful. After all, don't the majority of immigrants come here for a better life. Benefits, health care, housing, freedom etc. They leave their 3rd world countries & all their belongings, including the family moped & AK47, starvation, deprivation, poverty. Yes, grateful, because if they arnt, then they are ungrateful.

punky 19-02-2007 01:31
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Can we please remember not to stereotype people and tar them all with the same brush. Thank you.

DABhand 19-02-2007 01:34
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225803)
the bnp dont need stopping they need VOTES they are trying to keep england ENGLISH and free from all this well u know what.. andthye dont harrass and they dont cause havoc do they, nope.

Once a Skinhead....Always a skinhead.


But, this is what im talking about from all your replies, there is one thing missing, information about immigrants and asylum seekers.


The BNP spout out that they are here to steal jobs. Again ill re-iterate

1. Asylum Seekers can NOT work for a specified time, it is the law, so they have no choice but to sign on and get dole money. But the BNP dont want you to know that, they want you to think that they have some grand scheme of taking all our monies and ship it off.

At the end of the day, no matter who signs on, the monies is theirs, they can send to wherever they like. So what if they send money to relatives back home for them to survive.


2. Immigrants come and work, they are NOT stealing the jobs, remember one important piece of info here, the Employers pick their employees, so why do the immigrants get picked first to do specialised jobs?

They are hard working, they have experience, they have qualifications and now compare that to most of the people in this country who were born here, most of the younger generation are not hard working, do not have experience and maybe have some qualifications. But most of all they are lazy, they prefer to be handed money for nothing.

As an employeer, I know who I would choose first to work for me.


3. Then you have the people who start new businesses, and being successful at it, again because of hard work and dedication something very missing from most of the people out there.

BNP dont want you to know that, they spout out how they come over and make businesses with YOUR money (which it isnt really) and they send back home. I.e. supposedly coming over to steal every penny, which again is a lie.


At the end of the day the BNP and its members, are racist, egotistical, confrontational, disruptive etc.

Want to keep England ENGLISH you say, just remember England doesnt belong to the people and it never has, you are priveledged to be there in your country. You abide by the rules set before you.

And thats why the BNP is bad for anyone. They dont think this. And their racist ways do and always will promote secterianism.

In other words the BNP and Neo-Nazi groups are just as bad as the terrorists.

And if you think they are good for your country, then shame on you, your a disgrace. And you wonder why extremist middle eastern groups like to bomb and fly into buildings.

---------- Post added at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 34225115)
What are you on about? I have already admitted I misunderstood your statement about the marchers (poor syntax, the lateness of the hour etc....) but you are now completely backpedalling from your statement about all of us being responsible for slavery etc. You said in #352: Now you are trying to wriggle out of that statement.....
Perhaps because you didnt READ what was being said, read it again.

SMG 19-02-2007 02:45
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34225874)
Once a Skinhead....Always a skinhead.


But, this is what im talking about from all your replies, there is one thing missing, information about immigrants and asylum seekers.


The BNP spout out that they are here to steal jobs. Again ill re-iterate

1. Asylum Seekers can NOT work for a specified time, it is the law, so they have no choice but to sign on and get dole money. But the BNP dont want you to know that, they want you to think that they have some grand scheme of taking all our monies and ship it off.

At the end of the day, no matter who signs on, the monies is theirs, they can send to wherever they like. So what if they send money to relatives back home for them to survive.


2. Immigrants come and work, they are NOT stealing the jobs, remember one important piece of info here, the Employers pick their employees, so why do the immigrants get picked first to do specialised jobs?

They are hard working, they have experience, they have qualifications and now compare that to most of the people in this country who were born here, most of the younger generation are not hard working, do not have experience and maybe have some qualifications. But most of all they are lazy, they prefer to be handed money for nothing.

As an employeer, I know who I would choose first to work for me.


3. Then you have the people who start new businesses, and being successful at it, again because of hard work and dedication something very missing from most of the people out there.

BNP dont want you to know that, they spout out how they come over and make businesses with YOUR money (which it isnt really) and they send back home. I.e. supposedly coming over to steal every penny, which again is a lie.


At the end of the day the BNP and its members, are racist, egotistical, confrontational, disruptive etc.

Want to keep England ENGLISH you say, just remember England doesnt belong to the people and it never has, you are priveledged to be there in your country. You abide by the rules set before you.

And thats why the BNP is bad for anyone. They dont think this. And their racist ways do and always will promote secterianism.

In other words the BNP and Neo-Nazi groups are just as bad as the terrorists.

And if you think they are good for your country, then shame on you, your a disgrace. And you wonder why extremist middle eastern groups like to bomb and fly into buildings.

---------- Post added at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------



Perhaps because you didnt READ what was being said, read it again.
Absolute rubbish.

Locky 19-02-2007 08:40
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34225841)
Nooo, of course the BNP don't cause havoc.. The members do (and have the rap sheets to prove it).

So, yes. The BNP does need to be stopped. As do any other Nazi parties.
yes maybe they do, what about cameron the pothead, dont forget that..

Damien 19-02-2007 10:17
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky (Post 34225939)
yes maybe they do, what about cameron the pothead, dont forget that..
Smoking drugs when he was at college is hardly the same :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34225910)
Absolute rubbish.
Why? The facts aboyt Asylum seekers/immigrants are true :confused:

DABhand 19-02-2007 13:07
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG (Post 34225910)
Absolute rubbish.

Show me other wise


Show me that Asylum Seekers cant work for a certain amount of time, if I remember well it was 3-5 years.

Show me proof that Employers arent employing "white" people cause the immigrants/overseas persons are less qualified and desirable to employ.

Show me proof of non "white" new businesses that dont last long and are not successful compared to a "white" new business.


You dont come in and say "absolute rubbish" without proof.

Saaf_laandon_mo 19-02-2007 13:45
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DABhand (Post 34225874)
Once a Skinhead....Always a skinhead.


But, this is what im talking about from all your replies, there is one thing missing, information about immigrants and asylum seekers.


The BNP spout out that they are here to steal jobs. Again ill re-iterate

1. Asylum Seekers can NOT work for a specified time, it is the law, so they have no choice but to sign on and get dole money. But the BNP dont want you to know that, they want you to think that they have some grand scheme of taking all our monies and ship it off.

At the end of the day, no matter who signs on, the monies is theirs, they can send to wherever they like. So what if they send money to relatives back home for them to survive.


2. Immigrants come and work, they are NOT stealing the jobs, remember one important piece of info here, the Employers pick their employees, so why do the immigrants get picked first to do specialised jobs?

They are hard working, they have experience, they have qualifications and now compare that to most of the people in this country who were born here, most of the younger generation are not hard working, do not have experience and maybe have some qualifications. But most of all they are lazy, they prefer to be handed money for nothing.

As an employeer, I know who I would choose first to work for me.


3. Then you have the people who start new businesses, and being successful at it, again because of hard work and dedication something very missing from most of the people out there.

BNP dont want you to know that, they spout out how they come over and make businesses with YOUR money (which it isnt really) and they send back home. I.e. supposedly coming over to steal every penny, which again is a lie.


At the end of the day the BNP and its members, are racist, egotistical, confrontational, disruptive etc.

Want to keep England ENGLISH you say, just remember England doesnt belong to the people and it never has, you are priveledged to be there in your country. You abide by the rules set before you.

And thats why the BNP is bad for anyone. They dont think this. And their racist ways do and always will promote secterianism.

In other words the BNP and Neo-Nazi groups are just as bad as the terrorists.

And if you think they are good for your country, then shame on you, your a disgrace. And you wonder why extremist middle eastern groups like to bomb and fly into buildings.

---------- Post added at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------



Perhaps because you didnt READ what was being said, read it again.
Well said mate but.....

You're wasting your time mate, there are some people on here that wont change their racist, stereotypical,anti immigrant anti muslim views. Immigrants and muslims seem to be the favoured target on here for everything thats wrong in the UK (ie from employment to crime), and often the 2 become morphed into 1. You will learn in time.

Damien 19-02-2007 13:57
Re: Muslims to march in London
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34226136)
Well said mate but.....

You're wasting your time mate, there are some people on here that wont change their racist, stereotypical,anti immigrant anti muslim views. Immigrants and muslims seem to be the favoured target on here for everything thats wrong in the UK (ie from employment to crime), and often the 2 become morphed into 1. You will learn in time.

:( I think your right, it seems to be happening more and more on here


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