Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

By snipping my words mid-sentence you've entirely changed its meaning. My sentence was about the impact of adult social care costs on councils.

Obviously, I'm very sorry about your mother in law.

Councils principally went bankrupt due to a 50% reduction in funding since 2010, the aforementioned hike in adult social care costs and punts on property designed to replace lost central government funding.

I don't pretend all the councils who went bankrupt were perfectly run (eg Woking with its property punts), but there simply isn't any fat left to cut. Reform UK will discover this when they take control of councils but most of Farage's words were more rhetoric and PR than anything else. They're not going to start adding to the real estate to ensure everyone is in five days a week, for example, as this would be too costly.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

One of the few threats the unions have left is to get all the staff turning up at the office, it works and it scares most local councils silly. My employer has cut office space dramatically and used the savings to balance the books for the last few years.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

An anti-strike! :D

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Yeah, they can't dock your pay for turning up for work!

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

From what I have seen, most councils have not made any savings as a result of working from home and the desks of the homers are still there, sitting empty most of the time.

Some have, however, but Reform’s redundancy programme should see to that.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Our local authority has done the same, WFH saves the cost of accommodation, heating, lighting, cleaning, insurance etc. The effects of covid enlightened them of the savings to be made.

Anyone who needs to now has to book a desk.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

That's how it should work.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

And if there are more staff than desks? That is the reality of offices now. They saw an opportunity to save money on office space and grabbed it. You can't put Willy where Willy has nowhere to sit, think there was a song along those lines....

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Do tell us when you were last working in an Office OB. 1988?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

You counted wrong when you decided how many desks. ;)

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Have you analysed most councils in the UK to reach this conclusion? And I doubt Reform has a redundancy programme, just some rhetoric aimed at their supporters.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

What have you seen, and can you provide this info to the rest of the forum, please?

(Bearing in mind there are 317 Councils in England, including district, county, metropolitan and unitary authorities along with London boroughs and the City of London Corporation, so "most of" is greatest amount, so at least half+1 - 159 Councils).

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Reform. The gift that keeps on giving

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Quite right too the lazy gits

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Lets not forget we pay for these people through our taxes, you get naff all out of councils as it is

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

The company I work for has become much more productive since bringing in hybrid working. Keep them at home if it suits them.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

The private sector can do as it pleases but i expect my council workers to be in the office, if they aren't happy with that they can always look elsewhere for employment

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I have been hybrid working for 2 years now. Monday and Thursday in the office the rest at home. The reality is i can work just as well from home as i can in the office.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

If they’re not public-facing they don’t need to be in the office.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Meanwhile...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9ekx3mz4yo

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Surely, we want government and council staff to operate as efficiently as the private sector? Requiring staff to be in all the time who don't need to, just adds to the real estate costs and acts as a deterrent to good employees working there.

---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

Being in power at the moment is somewhat of a poisoned chalice, be it at local or national level. It's easier to change things when you have money to do so.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Or the lawful authority and ability.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

An observation: Those against hybrid working on this forum seem not to be working.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

:rofl:

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I work from home because my work is sedentary and my head office is in Brussels. All interactions with customers are done online, like Teams and GoogleWhatsit.

But I still believe that the ability to interact from minute to minute with people in the office, with managers, etc, leads to better outcomes. For example, you need a recommendation or decision from one or two people. But they're out at a garden centre, or Waitrose or summat and you have to await the opportunity for speaking to them (and maybe not in the same timeframe as you need it). Bleedin' obvious, really.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

In which case if they’re in Waitrose they’re not working are they? It’s like wanting the opinion of a colleague but they’re currently on a different floor. Daft example.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Skiving probably

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

For those of us who work from home we have software that monitors our productivity to ensure we don’t “skive to Waitrose*.

Unless public-facing there are few if any reasons to not work from home if required.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

You can believe what you want , however many studies on both sides of the pond show that remote working doesn’t inhibit collaboration or productivity in any degree whatsoever.

If a role can be done remotely and companies are insisting that it needs to be done in office then you have one of two issues

1.legacy real estate costs
2. Trust between leadership and teams

My team (of over sixty) are all fully remote apart from five staff whose specific role requires them to be in an office. Those that are remote have the option to go to an office should they wish.

There is no loss of collaboration or productivity

I don’t care what hours they work so long the work is delivered to the required standard and on time. I don’t care if they need to take their dog to the vet or go and take their car to the garage. I know if the shit hits the fan the team are there to engage and support however needed.

TL:DR it’s the quality of the work and its delivery on time , regardless of if that’s internal to the business or to my external customers that counts, not having a bum on a seat in an office working core hours.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

All this WFH theory is spouting pure ignorance.

Let's say I'm sitting in the office on a three desk pod arrangement. My neighbour is on a call with his colleagues and I overhear something that impinges on my project, I can immediately react (as appropriate) rather than either be out of the loop entirely, or find out somewhat later (if at all).

As I said, bleedin' obvious.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Well as long as it works for you, who cares eh?

Never mind the people who do a great job WFH.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

And I can say possessing significantly more leadership experience than you that you’re completely and utterly wrong.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Er - maybe if we met and had a curry together we could compare notes on that.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Thank you for the offer but I’ll pass .

Anyhoo, RTO mandates and the WFH argument digress away from this threads intended purpose. Start one if you want to continue this ?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

You're Donald Trump i claim my $5

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I think if you believed that 100% you would either join a company where you could work in their office or relocate to the office of your Brussels overlords.

---------- Post added at 16:10 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

Back to Reform. I see that they are implementing Putin's request to remove Ukranian flags from council buildings, under the guise of removing all non-British flags.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Does any employer actually allow that, Seph?

When I worked from home, I put in more hours than I did when in the office as there was no travelling time, and what’s more there were no interruptions from colleagues unless it was about work.

I was always available when needed as my telephone extension number would put callers straight through to me just as if I was at work in the office. I could attend meetings via Zoom or Teams or attend the office as required. It worked very well.

Once booked in at the start of the day, I was expected to be available until clocking off for lunch, etc. If I even dared to nip off to the shop, I would have been disciplined because I was being paid to work. There were tough performance measures and targets in place. Monthly staff meetings would be held to ensure everyone was on track and not falling behind with their targets. Any work overlaps you mentioned would be picked up at those meetings as everyone in the team related what they had been doing and what they were planning to do.

The way WFH works in some local authorities results in staff rarely being available, so we must ask ourselves what is going wrong in those councils. This is why Reform UK are focussing on this.

That’s how it should work, and office space should be reduced as a result, saving on cost. Hot desks were available if employees were required to come in for specific reasons. If organisations actually bothered to manage these schemes properly they could both save money and increase efficiency.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:18 ----------

Sounds like your company has got it right, Russ.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------

Yes, agreed, as long as all the checks and balances are in place.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

it's not companies it's councils, reform didn't take over any companies.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Yes they need to treated carefully considering it would be a pointless move at best and silly “gesture politics’ at worse.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I’ve worked from home for well over a decade.

Private or public, doesn’t matter to me. I don’t get a refund for the heat, power, broadband I use at home for work, and have never asked for or expected one.

And as long as that is the same in the public sector, and tax payers realise the savings made by council workers working from home, then it’s a win win. Even Smurf Daddy must agree on that !

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

I don’t have that, and would reject it.

I have set objectives, bau tasks and regular catch ups with my managers ( once a fortnight). If I was micro-managed by software or management I’d sack it off.

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

Or you’ve gone to the toilet and don’t hear it.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Apparently, Reform suspended one of their new councillors yesterday, pending an investigation.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

link

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Yes, they act promptly on such matters. That’s novel, isn’t it?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Not novel at all, more routine. They removed 100 candidates last year.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

They are ridding themselves of the old cohort. They are now vetting all their candidates, far more thoroughly than the other parties, who are not free of scandals themselves.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

A bit hypocritical
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2744956.html

Those looking for savings on EDI are set to be disappointed in Lincolnshire. ;)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2744308.html

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Oh they’re doing it now? Rather than when they joined? I get it.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2745187.html

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Quick action by reform immediate suspension

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

"immediate"??

https://archive.ph/e8e3W

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

They've got the people's priorities right anyway. What flags we fly on buildings is the publics no 1 priority atm. Tear down those Ukranian flags for a start.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ncil-buildings
#putinlovingamateurs

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

:tu: V Putin likes this

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I see your ability to spout complete nonsense has not been dulled by your long sulk from the site. :dozey:

Why do you care where they sit ? You would not even know.
I have worked from home part time since 2010, full time since 2020.
My work is entirely computer based and it makes zero difference where I'm located, as long as I have internet access.

I (and my team) have no such software.
All that matters is that our work gets done, the company encourages breaks from our computers.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Reform supporters - "Councils need to cut costs and use efficient methods of working, like Private Industry!"

Councils - "OK, we’ll use hybrid working, like Private Industry, and sell off Capital Assets like buildings that aren’t needed to because of hybrid working, and reduce our ongoing Operational Costs by not having Utility bills and Maintenance Costs of the sold-off buildings, and reduce recruitment costs by increased retention due to hybrid working"

Reform supporters - "Not like that!"

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

As does mine. We’ve always had this software (pre-hybrid working), it can be used to ensure work is done but was brought in to help us gauge how close we are to our targets and bonuses - we still use it that way. We’ve long since been trusted to do our jobs. The company is one of the most “holistic” I’ve ever encountered.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

on the subject of council workers WFH there's no I in team, and as i am paying the wages out of my taxes i want my workforce in the office.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Are you happy to pay increased taxes to pay for the offices?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

our council has adequate office space which was opened in 1941,it hasn't gone anywhere

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

There will be increased maintenance and utility costs if all that space is re-used again.

Would you be prepared to pay for this?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

They should take all steps possible to ensure it does not go over budget. Not all do, we just tend to hear of the ones that go significantly over budget.

I assume they've worked out who wants to work remotely and who wants/has to work on site and this is included in their calculations. It's not possible for everyone to work from home as they may not be fortunate enough to have appropriate space to do so.

---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

That's because of poor management or underfunding. Plenty of telephone contact services overseas or managed by people from their homes in the UK that operate in all seasons.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

And if it makes no difference to the service you get, but increases worker happiness and productivity are you still going to stick to that mindset?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

a person should always be able to distance home life from work life you can't do that if your home is your place of work

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Would I be right in assuming you have never ever worked from home?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Are you "working" at this time?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Im off yesterday and today.

Would I be right in assuming you have never ever worked from home?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

A) No evidence that this was because of WFH
B) Spring/Summer self-assessment telephone support closedown never happened, as it was cancelled

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68616330

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

i started work life as a heavy plate fabricator/welder, then spent 10 years as a BT Cable jointer-then 10 years as a contract cable jointer/fibre splicer all over the UK, worked for Eriksson ,then NTL/virgin media for 17 years as a network engineer
you can't do any of that from home.
it's not about me working from home it's about council workers not being in the office that i object to, and as an old manager once told me at VM "you don't come to work to be happy"

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Why do you want one rule for the public sector and another for the private sector?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Sounds Scottish. :D

That said, arguing that people who could effectively work from home shouldn’t be allowed to do so just because you couldn’t, is a bit churlish.

I could work from the office at my church but it would cost my employer money as the space would need heated and lit just for me to be there. It’s the same issue on a grander scale for large employers. There are costs associated with having people in an office. If they’re happier and at least as productive working from home, and the employer is saving money on facilities maintenance, everybody wins.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Thank you.

So you have zero basis for asserting…

Funnily enough i manage it and have done for 5 years. Once my shift is over i leave my work laptop in another room.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

That's not what i said.

---------- Post added at 12:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

Actually i spent 25 years of my working life on call so i know what it's like not to be able to have a home life, callout was not optional

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

So you’ve never worked from home then. You should have just said that in the first place. At 5pm I switch off and my employer wouldn’t expect anything less unless I agreed to optional overtime.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

So what is your argument? Is it that you don't trust council workers to work from home, but you're happy for everyone else to work flexibly as you're more inclined to trust them? Or something else?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I pay for council workers through my taxes and i expect them to turn up at the office for work, i don't pay Russ's wages so i don't care what his boss gets back in return

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

You pay your ISP's wages, do you expect them to be based in an office?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Are they running my local council?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

You're in a better position to answer that question than me. ;)

Why do you want one rule for council workers and another for everyone else?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Government institutions such as HMRC need to maintain data security. So, for example, the theft of the corporate PC/Laptop would be a data breach. In local government too, confidential data needs to be protected and I doubt that many councils have that properly in hand.


---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:46 ----------

@Andrew
You also mentioned about people who want to work from home. What happens if/when they change their mind?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Your doubt may be misplaced - I know people in Private Industry, Local Government, and the University Sector who are hybrid working, and they all seem to follow the same methodology and technology - they use the same laptop (with an encrypted drive) in both places (home and office), and the same security standards, except they use a work-supplied VPN to access a Virtual Desktop to enable them to work from home.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

1. Your council’s entire council tax income is between one quarter and one half of its total income. Your personal contribution to your council’s income is in the region of 0.0006%. So no, you do not pay the wages of any officer of your council in any meaningful way.

2. Even if you were paying the piper and in a position to call the tune, you’ve still given no reason why you think they should be in an office particularly.

Any chance of a straight answer, or is glib one-liners as far as you can go?

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I've answered many times you're not listening

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Then you have an individual conversation with them as they would be requesting a change to their employment contract. This would require the agreement of both parties via a new contract.

If a few staff moved from 100% remote to 100% in person, I'm sure most organisations could accommodate it. Good employers are always keen to hold onto good staff. If everyone decided en masse to then I think for many organisations, that could be problematical but it's very unlikely to happen.

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

"I doubt that" is doing a lot of heavy lifting for you.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I’m on a hybrid contract as are the 2000 other employees. It gives us the flexibility to work from home or the office as needed. I have to go in twice a week but if I wanted to go in each day I could.

It’s very straightforward and done by the overwhelming number of employers who offer hybrid working.

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------

I work for a Law firm. I deal with highly sensitive legal and court papers each day. I have this data on my work laptop that I keep at home whilst working here and when I take it in to the office.

The HD is highly encrypted. It’s no big issue. We’ve never had a data breach.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

I spent about 18 months as a government contractor in the late noughties. I had a civil service laptop and remote access to the civil service extranet. Nobody ever thought it was a problem (and in fact the second contract I was on, was for a department that lacked desk space and actively discouraged me from being in the office unless it was absolutely necessary, which was usually around once a month).

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Encryption & MFA are two small components. device trust/posture and conditional access are even more important. Steal a laptop ? Check. Got the password ? Check. Got the MFA device ? Check. Coming from an unknown or unapproved IP? Denied.

There’s so much going on behind the scenes you’re not even aware of.

I did some work for Selby council many years ago and they had all of that in place then…… as did many other councils in yorkshire /Lancashire

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Says who ? I dont get any "allowances".

Why ? Are you suggesting they should be less "productive" in an office.

(Microsoft) Teams.

Who says it has anything to do with WFH ?
Telephone systems are perfectly capable of providing your "office" phone at home.
We run a whole helpdesk system using such systems.

Huh ?

In some cases it may require some thought by employers.

Good luck getting past my BitLocker password (which encrypts the entire drive).


They do, as do I. My contract states my "office" is my home address.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Correct. That’s what I do.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Dame Andrea Jenkyns has been sworn in as the first ever mayor of Greater Lincolnshire

Following the election on Thursday, May 1, Ms Jenkyns won in every area of the county except North Lincolnshire, securing 104,133 votes.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...int_source=nba

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

There’s been a lot of "High Sixes" in Lincolnshire today…

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

we make great guitar players thou

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Well, it is where the first 12 string guitars were made…

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

An interesting take on Farage’s obsession with immigration:

https://writesbright.substack.com/p/...bz69_IsShzTqAA

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

People talk about £3bn as if it’s peanuts. Think about what we could do with that sum of money - to eradicate homelessness, for our own people for example. It is a scandalous waste of money and this stupid and irresponsible level of spending has to stop.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

Just think about what £32b could have done for homelessness, including the written-off £5bn of fraud.

Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 

What has that got to do with reform?