Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

If you’re going to save face then trust me, this is not the hill you want to die on.

*If* Starmer’s plans are successful, and it puts money back in the economy and society benefits from tax which can be used to repair what the Tories destroyed (the NHS for example) then you’ll be wrong, although I wont be interested enough to gloat.

If after 14 years, like the Tories (or even less if you’re honest with yourself) he leaves the country in a terrible state he’ll be worthy of all the derision in the world.

And for the record I’ve never “championed” (could you not have used a more self-embarrassing expression?) Starmer.

Take a look at what my signature has been for the past 8 months. Does it say “Vote Labour”? Does it say “Starmer is the man we need”? Maybe you need the glasses I’m getting repaired on Friday but my position always been anti-Tory. There was no doubt nobody other than Labour would take over but that doesn’t make me a fanboy.

You can try to shoehorn me in to whatever Starmer-loving caricature you have of me in your head, it does t bother me but I promise that’s the only place it resides - in your head.

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

And by the way, lying about me just makes you even more sad and twisted.

I have *never* called a single Tory voter ‘s c u m’. There are plenty of things I have said in the past you can choose from, you don’t need to make shit up.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Ok, I take that back, I mis-remembered an exchange between yourself and Sephiroth where he implied you'd said that.

I went back and checked, and you didn't.

My apologies.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Just silly own goals. He's lucky the Opposition is enfeebled at the moment.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Why the feck not?

She did the same to Boris when he went on holiday. She’s a massive hypocrite, they all are in Labour.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I think politicians should go on holiday in the summer if they want. The main criticism I remember was Raab who was doing so during the evacuation of Afghanistan which is different. Ministers/PMs should return or postpone their holiday is there is a crisis.

I.E Starmer was meant to go on holiday during the riots and cancelled it because of those riots.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I’m not really sure the whole “because they had a go at the Tories for doing it” is really a valid argument.

It’s also worth noting when Labour were in opposition and did something wrong the Tory fanboys would be all over it. But when Tory MPs did something dodgy the very same people would come would with lines such as “well all politicians are at it”.

Well it’s great to see the double standards and hypocrisy from the Tory Fanboys has quietened down however what excuse will they be forced to use in its place?

I wait with bated breath - it’ll be fun to point out the new level of hypocrisy.

If you (generically) are going to try to call out Labour for all their unpopular and apparent U-turns maybe at least give them the same amount of time the Tories had to show their true colours? I’m not sure comparing 3 months of power with 14 years of corruption and protecting the rich is a balanced approach.

How about we give them till the next election at least.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I think it Hilarious that the Labour fan boys, that relished when the Tories did something wrong and were all over it when they did, and thought themselves and Labour were morally superior.

Have realised in short order that Labour are just as nasty, perhaps more so, and just as bent.

And I’m going to thoroughly enjoy criticising Labour over the next term as vehemently as the Labour fan boys did the previous government.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Well, it's nice to have a hobby ;)

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I also make ashtrays.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You sure you got those posts right? I mean you’ve already completely misread 2 in the last 24 hours.

Still if that’s how you get enjoyment these days, all the power to you. I’m sure you’ll find some form of satisfaction from Labour spaffing £32bn to their mates.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The Labour "gifts" have been going on for some years, so how come nobody's picked up on it before now?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

At a glance I’d say it’s due to them not being in government and therefore not being in much of a position to offer anything to donor, corrupt friends and screwing over the nation with a “no deal Brexit” whilst pretending it would make us a powerhouse on the international stage.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Diane abbot not happy with starmer

Diane Abbott has claimed Sir Keir Starmer's Labour is "in the pocket of millionaires" in a bombshell claim on the eve of the party's conference.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...f-millionaires


looks like theres trouble in paradise.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Still, I guess it’s all about how you spin a story.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I understand he got some curtains donated for the flat. The rest he paid for himself?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

As I recall it was only after the story broke as he was planning on having everything else “donated” seeing as he was only earning a pitiful £160,000 per annum as Prime Minister at the time.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

2? Whatever, I at least recognise my errors.

It’s not enjoyment, but a lot of people have not experienced a Labour government whilst having an adult brain.

All they know is Tories bad, Labour good, and whilst not in government it’s dead easy to be virtuous.

So now they are in government, and in record time been found out to be nasty, cronyist, bent and everything they accused the Tories of being…….I will indeed remind all the Labour fanboys at every opportunity.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

If/when they get to the Tories level of cronyism (especially the bullshitting Boris era) then you’ll have a point.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It is exactly that.

How much money he “spent”

He spent £112£, and is allowed to claim £30K, so spent £80K of other money…….

Whereas Starmer, enjoyed £100K ….

Anyway, as you’re not pro-Labour, just anti-Tory. You’ll see both for what they are.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Do keep in mind though that the standard Tory fanboy response when their party got caught with their pants down was always “well all politicians are crooked”.

You won’t mind them giving you that response each and every time will you?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

He should have applied for Sue Gray’s position…………..

---------- Post added at 21:18 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

I welcome it.


Holding up a mirror ……..and all that.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You surprise me as being the type to accept a piss-poor cop-out as a response but I guess that’s your right.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You surprise me as striving …strenuously, apparently to not come across as a typical Labour fanboy ………


You protested to much in your earlier post.

That’s exactly as how you come across, regardless of what’s in your bio.

Just own it.

You’ll go up a rung in my estimation…………..you’re now at….Rung 1.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

So keeping in mind I’m bothered in the slightest about your ladder or where you shove it, I’ll remind you again what my signature has said for the past 8 months.

In fact if you can demonstrate one single post I have ever made where I’ve had a signature that encouraged anyone to vote for Labour (keeping in mind any vote for Labour from me would have a very different outcome from you doing so) then I’ll issue the same kind of humiliating apology post that you made yesterday.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I have a plaque on my front gate, says I love Jeremy Corbyn, been there 8 months at least.

But I take your point.

Well…….your signature doesn’t really change post to post, so that’s a pointless statement,

If you think apologising is humiliating ….it really isn’t, if you’re capable of acknowledging your errors.


I thought you a man of god? If a man apologises to you sincerely, as I did, is forgiveness not in your heart , or do you choose to mock him?

Not very Christian.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I won’t tell you how to be an atheist, you don’t tell me how to be a Christian.

You’ve already misrepresented things I’ve said twice in 24 hours, are you going for the record here or something? I’ve voted Labour to keep the Tories OUT. It’s worked perfectly for me so far. That doesn’t make me a Labour fan. But if you’re going to criticise them, be sure to reference the posts you’ve made about the Tories doing the same or worse.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

That’s very Christian of you….god bless. ( #being Christian doesn’t make you nice, worthy, moral, or a good person)

I’m not sure what I am, Atheist seems a bit absolutist. I was raised Roman Catholic. In don’t know what I am, I just don’t believe in a god.

Twice? Not sure, but I apologised for what I acknowledged, many wouldn’t.

Makes you an absolute fair target for criticism.


I may do……..might not .


Doesn’t matter anymore, Labour are in power.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Personally I think that they are both as bad as each other. Labour focused on the things the Tories were doing, when they were in opposition, because first of all that's the point of being in opposition, but secondly and more crucially what they were doing was wrong. It is kind of important that they were probably also doing the same and would do it in power too, but, they had much fewer MPs at the time and so it was presumably easier for them anyway.


In regards to the rest of the point, whilst tactical voting is a thing, and whilst many others probably hold a similar stance and voting to keep someone out rather than someone in, this is an issue when the other party are not without major issues themselves. Labour are no better or worse than the Tories. In fact with a middle of the road leader like Blair or Starmer as opposed to it being someone like Nandy or Rayner, or even someone more hard-left like McDonnell, Abbott or Corbyn, they are incredibly similar, but with the socialist undertones within the party always there (perhaps in a similar way to the ERG wing in the Tory party but on the other side). But they are the only two parties who could make a government so it happens. I'm reminded that one's enemy's enemy isn't necessarily one's friend...

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Keir Starmer’s at it again helping himself to another freebie, he's even brought his mates along

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ootball-ticket

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

My issue is we have been duped into thinking it has to be Labour or Tory and to forget any other party.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Blame the electoral system. That is the only choice. Both the main parties love it.

We rejected any change it (as the Govt told us to) in the 2011 av referendum.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Yeah, twice.



How does my vote affect you in any way?




Well, you wouldn’t want to be displaying more blatant hypocrisy now would you?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The rules around accepting freebies need to be cleared up, perhaps the same rules should apply to all public servants.

I have been on a number of overseas trips with civil servants attending, and on every occasion they have been very wary of accepting any hospitality.

I have experienced instances where they have contacted their organisation to check if they are allowed to accept an invitation to go out for a meal in the evening, and I have also experienced instances in the US where I have gone out in the evening with the supplier for ribs or a steak etc, and the civil servant has declined to attend for fear of getting into trouble.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

There's accepting the odd gift and there's being bought,this government of self service is up for sale.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Tumbleweeds from the Labour fan boys………

Turns out Labour are just as nasty, just as corrupt, just as crony, just as bad at every measure than the Tory’s they thought themselves morally above.

I’d be embarrassed, I know they are, as there’s just silence.

All they’ve done is screw over pensioners, give massive ..no strings..pay rises to train drivers (so poorly paid to begin with) and doctors (always on the breadline).

While accepting thousands, and it wasn’t just the PM, in bungs for clothes, glasses, corporate boxes, luxury penthouses……

There’s the party of the people, for the people.

If I was a Labour “fan boy” on here, I would be so embarrassed, you’d find me in a corner rocking back and forth

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Angela Rayner hires £68,000-a-year 'vanity photographer': Deputy PM is the first to have taxpayer-funded staffer to burnish her image - as sleaze controversy grows


'Are there any greater vanity projects than the Deputy Prime Minister with her thousands of pounds of free clothes, her luxury free holiday, and now her publicly paid photographer?'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntroversy.html

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

So no worse than the Tories then

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

They should use this to bring in much stricter rules on donations IMO.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Yeah exactly. I don't see why MPs shouldn't be subject to the same rules. I don't mind a few things, as I said I can understand the PM being invited into corporate hospitality at sporting events such as Wimbledon but why on earth do they need dresses and glasses to be paid for them?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

If thats your defence i'd get your coat and go home.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I didn’t say anything about defence. I’m just pointing out the Tory and anti-Labour fans were either strangely quiet when the Tories were at it or just said “well all politicians are corrupt”

These people are strange silent these days.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

They make you laugh, trying to compare the two parties as the same after 14 years of literally looting the country at everyone other than friends and donors expense and going after them on being in for slightly more time than that wet lettuce who caused the cost of living crisis to be significantly worse for most and then moaning that people are getting pay rises they've been denied for years under the guise of austerity and claiming its at the expense of pensioners whilst conveniently ignoring that the winter fuel payment did need reforming as cash millionaires get it the same as poor people and ignoring why it's even needed at all in the 6th wealthiest nation on Earth.

That notwithstanding there are some serious own goals from Labour, having to be dressed by someone else as a fully grown adult is plain embarrassing and they should scrap all these type of donations, the hospitality at events I kind of get, we can't really allow the PM to be in the stands at a football match but maybe a better solution would be if he wants to go to something he just go's without the need for someone to donate it.

Anyway, in summary, they're not the same, far from it and judging them to be the same when they've not even had a budget is either idiotic or just some prat with an agenda

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Or more likely, both.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I wonder if the prat with an agenda is running the government, because whoever is running the government certainly doesn't have much sense for giving months of notice to business and savers that the budget is going to be harsh.

One of my former work colleagues is attempting to get his 25% tax free from his pension fund and isn't having much luck. I did the same a few months ago with the same company and it was very straight forward. I was surprised how quickly and easily it was to progress, but then again it was before panic had set in for those who have been planning their retirement. I obviously didn't predict the election happening so early in the year, but I wanted to get my tax free dosh before a Labour government was in power.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

do you suspect government interference ?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Do you?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I was asking a question not offering an opinion

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The Government hasn't changed the rules on that. It's a routine transaction with the pension provider. It should be quick and easy to progress as it will be largely automated.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

No, I don't suspect that is the reason. I suspect it's the sheer volume of people rushing to get their money before the budget.

---------- Post added at 22:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

Agreed, I can understand the chaos with people rushing to sort out frozen company or private pensions. But he has already transferred his pensions into a SIPP, so it should be as straight forward and as quick as mine was (days), but it seems to be stalling.

ps. There appears to be a few media outlets reporting a sudden rush:
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/pe...n-savers-panic

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I posted on Farcebook that Starmer & Rayner should resign.

They removed it Siting it goes against their standard, HOW??

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:48 ----------

They should ban all freebies.

I mean some of my jobs they weren't allowed, in another I was allowed to keep the bottle of Whisky I was sent.

I gave it to my dad as I didn't drink it at the time.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Another story here

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...pede-tax-raid/

I would be surprised if Labour touched the 25% lump sum. There were more rumours they might move to a flat rate of 33% relief but I don't see that either.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

plain old sheer panic eh

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You may be right, they may not touch the 25% lump sum. But the damage is done, which is down to their negative vibes and warnings months before a budget that it's going to be a bad one.

I could understand a further left Corbyn type government hitting pensions out of spite, but I think Starmer and his cabinet are just showing that they are a bunch of amateur politicians.

If they want to move to the model of a means tested old age pension, they have shot themselves in the foot. They have prompted pension investors to take their money out of schemes that were most likely offering a good rate of return, and instead putting that money into accounts offering poor returns or splashing the cash on foreign holidays etc.

I have read many of the news articles over the past few months regarding pension tax relief, and it's frightening that how many people in the comments sections clearly have no idea how it works. I have seen comments where people have said they shouldn't be taxed because they pay tax via PAYE, and when you try to explain to them it's like banging your head against the wall.

I have also seen comments regarding salary sacrifice and the higher rates of tax relief, where people have said things such as "Why should the rich get more money from the government".

If they introduce a flat rate, which I think would more likely be 30%, I think that would result in people in their 50's and 60's who have built up reasonable pension pots will just reduce their hours. That would then run the risk of these people falling short in funds when they fully retire.

I'm currently negotiating a contract for 2.5 days a week, because I have a feeling that it will be hardly worth working 5 days a week. I wish the budget was out of the way instead of the doom and gloom that Starmer and Reeves has caused.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

A cheeky little thought crossed my mind this morning. So, Labour say, you’re right, personal donations, even if previously OK should stop. Considering the hissy fit opposition MPs are having about this, they will definitely vote for this won’t they, surely?

Of course you could argue that banning donations should only apply to the party in power but if you do, then all donations to Labour MPs before 5th July are OK. You could argue that Labour was odds on to win the election for some months before July so they shouldn’t accept donations on this basis but that is saying that accepting donations on that basis is effectively publicly admitting that your party can’t win an election…

Politics and unintended consequences run wild here!

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

We're a very long way away from a means-tested old-age pension. I don't think it'll ever happen but if it does it will be in a future Parliament and brought in for younger people rather than anyone nearing retirement.

At some point people need to take personal responsibility over their finances and investment choices rather than going off panicked vibes they're getting from the media. It's unreasonable to deduce that the government will introduce a means-tested state pension. Such a move would make the poll tax riots look small.

Yes, financial literacy in this country is bad. Same with people who don't understand how tax bands work and assume you're better off not going into the 40% bracket.


This is why I don't think it will happen alongside the pain it would be to actually implement.

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

I wish they would do this but I don't think so. Most MPs will want to keep this which is why most of the attacks have come from the media rather than the Tories.

It's not needed for their jobs or really campaigning but to enrich themselves. They want these perks.

I would ban donations and increase the salary, linking it to civil servant pay.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I'm guilty, I didn't take too much notice of my pension pots until I hit 51. I pretty much kept paying in as much as I could afford to a mix of private and company group private schemes from the age of 20. I knew a few of the company schemes were rubbish, the original private scheme hadn't written to me for years, I contacted them and they sent an annual statement and I was shocked how well it was doing. At that point I took over handling the investments of my then company pension as a few others had, and it was the right decision.

I think that avoiding higher tax brackets depends on personal circumstances, for example if you are contracting inside IR35 paying 13.8% employers NI, Apprentice levy, 40% or 45% personal tax, 10% NI and having your personal allowance reduced your view may be different.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Great speech by starmer


Keir Starmer demands 'return of the sausages'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...nference-gaffe

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I think you need to diversify your media sources.... Plus the crossword is rubbish.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

ok pick one you like

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-k...hostage-hamas/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e-speech-video


https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/new...-b2618103.html

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Two Tier Keir is promising "Light at the end of the Tunnel" Probably the Labour tax loco about to run you down.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Could be the gravy train looking for those sausages:)

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

What taxes do you think might increase apart from the stated VAT on school fees? I would think re-linking fuel duty to inflation, an uplift in alcohol duties and maybe the sugar tax that the previous government withdrew.
Otherwise, they'll follow the previous government's policy of keeping the tax bands frozen and letting inflation tip more people into higher bands.

---------- Post added at 17:47 ---------- Previous post was at 17:45 ----------

Not been the same since they got rid of Rupert the Bear. :td:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Not one of his wurst sadly

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

definately a banger

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Smash on the side (like the gravy train)


Wonder if 2TK has special posh sausages from Waitrose like Cumberland ones and leaves those weird tinned hot dogs for the rest?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Family withdraw their child from private school as they don't want to pay the VAT when it is imposed by Labour.

Family applies for a place in a local state school.

Local state school has no space.

Council obliged to pay the private school place for the child.

And will have to pay the VAT when it is imposed.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Link? Or is that just a possible scenario?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Cobblers. If they can afford private school, 20% more means little. There are spaces but might not be in the school they want. Welcome to everyone else's world. Kids deserve an equal chance that shouldn't depend on their parent's wealth.

The answer is to improves state schools, so folks don't feel the need to go private. That will require funding, the 20% extra is justified.

See JRM, the multi millionaire, is whinging about Eton increasing fees by 20% for his darlings ( and claiming he's 'middle class').
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/jo...20pc-vat-fees/

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

There will be people for whom 20% put it beyond their reach. The question is that means it's a good use of a tax break.

I think Taf's story is true as it's quite specific, but the story there is that a family's state schools have no more capacity. Prisons, healthcare and schools. Every single aspect of the state is at breaking point.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

More of your jealous drivel. :rolleyes:

If you think 20% extra means nothing then I suggest you pay 20% extra on all your shopping, see if it really means "nothing" to you. :erm:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Very few (if any) of the Private Schools in Leeds have put 20% on from January - GSAL (the Grammar School At Leeds) are absorbing the cost this year (it’s a big school, with nearly 2,400 pupils), and Richmond House School (225 pupils), just down the road from us in Far Headingley, are putting them up by 8%.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

A school the size of GSAL is absorbing more than £8m if it’s not passing on VAT to 2,400 pupils. For me this goes to the heart of the problem with our private schools and their charitable status. To what extent are they actually a charity? There can’t be many charities that can just find a spare £8 million down the back of the sofa. How many more bursaries could a school that size be funding if it had been deploying those funds?

My missus was lucky enough to go to a private school and she has been getting bombarded this week with requests to donate to a funding drive prompted by the new VAT measures. In their case, it seems, they don’t have a spare £8 million in their back pocket, but on the other hand, when they come with the massive begging bowl, it’s with the aim of getting their super-wealthy old boys and girls to subsidise the already comfortably-off families of current pupils.* It all looks very like finance directors acting to defend a business model rather than charities working to fulfil a charitable purpose.

Nobody scrimps and saves to raise £15-20k per child, per year, to secure private schooling. Anyone who thinks they’re ’going without’ by spending their money on a private education for their kids needs to give their head a wobble because they haven’t the first idea what ‘going without’ actually means (Clue: it doesn’t mean only going on a ski holiday every other year).

(Edit) *We are neither super-wealthy enough to donate, nor comfortably-off enough to send our kids there :D

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

If you're allocating scarce funding around, it makes sense to spend it on the NHS rather than on tax breaks.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It was an analysis by a "fiscal expert" on TV news. Possibly BBC, as that is the one we have on most of the time. Councils around the UK had been asked if they could absorb extra pupils from private schools in their areas, and most said things like "our schools are at maximum capacity / brimful / unable to budget for any increase in numbers".

He also highlighted the severe problems on the same sort of problem with housing. Someone loses their home, the council is obliged to house them if they are unable to buy or rent themselves. To this end, councils are buying hotels, private flat complexes, and even whole student accommodation complexes to house the homeless. For example, here in Cardiff:

"The council is close to acquiring a student accommodation building of 103 apartments, a hotel providing more than 150 units, and a 20-bed house of multiple occupation."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...TRtsCx0r_diTuw

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It makes more sense to spend whats already allocated [to the NHS] more wisely.
There seems a lot of evidence large sums are wasted, just throwing more at it doesnt fix that.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It makes sense to do both, which is what is happening.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I've just had a quick look at my old school website (QEGS Wakefield) and can't see anything about the 20%, also I've not seen any increase in the begging emails over the usual volume.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I would freeze all increased spending on the NHS. It clearly no longer works and is too unwieldy as an organisation to manage.

It needs a complete overhaul and a new operating model.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It is cobblers for most, seem to remember an article that said between 3% & 7% of pupils would have to drop into state schools costing around £400 million but the money coming in would amount to £3 billion so seems like a no trainer to me, also these are business, their charitable status is an ancient anachronism that the schools themselves long since grew out of.

---------- Post added at 12:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

That's what a business would do...

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

That's not practical as waiting lists are at an all-time high and staff retention is a major problem.

Reforming the NHS has been on every government's to-do list since it was formed and Starmer's is no different here. Changing the funding to a French-style health insurance scheme is sometimes mooted as the way to go but that's not currently an electable policy.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I don't see much benefit from the French model. Many of these systems are just consequences of how each nation moved to a universal healthcare model. It's good if you were American looking for an alternative system but I am not convinced what it would change for us would be worth overhauling our system.

The main differences are that most of the cost is underwritten by the state at the point of use but there are charges for minor medical treatments which can be claimed back from the state and/or supplementary healthcare insurance that you get automatically from work or you pay for.

The most positive difference is that things like dental care are included in that supplementary (it's NOT private) insurance. So that works out cheaper. The main drawback is some things are not free at the point of use which I do not think you could sell to the public. The reimbursement system is automatic if you have your healthcare card.

But all of these amount to you paying more for healthcare. France spends more per person on healthcare, people on average pay overall for healthcare. They spend a lot more. https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-c...he-past-decade

Either way, you'll be paying this with taxes, with 'additional' insurance or reduced payroll because your employer pays it.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Originally posted by Matey80 in the Financial Times:

Made me chuckle. :D

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Et tu andrew:shocked:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Being a politician Starmer clearly has things he’d rather have swept under the rug.

But let’s not insult anyone’s intelligence by pretending he’s anywhere near bullshitting Boris’ level of corruption.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

What £ figure to you is an acceptable level of “gifts, freebies, corruption and cronyism” ?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Just read my post back to myself, I can’t see where I’ve said anything is acceptable.

I’m just going along the lines of what the Tory fanboys used to say when Boris and co would be caught with their pants down - “well all politicians are corrupt, they’re all at it”. Good for the goose and the gander and all that, right?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Indeed.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It's not who has taken the most that is going to be Labour's downfall, it's the moral high ground they took while pointing the finger at the party in power that's going to do it for them.

At the rate that these donations have been exposed over the past few weeks, I feel it's not unlikely that a finisher could be just around the corner.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Thes "donations" have not been "exposed", they were freely available on the HoC Register of Members Interests, unlike Johnson’s redecoration and Caribbean holiday (until he was caught)…

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Peer gave Keir Starmer more clothes worth £16,000, declared as money for private office


Exclusive: Donations worth £10,000 in October 2023 and £6,000 in February 2024 bring gifted clothes total to £32,000

Keir Starmer was given a further £16,000 worth of clothes by the Labour peer Waheed Alli, which was declared as money for his private office, the Guardian can reveal.

The donations, comprising £10,000 in October 2023 and £6,000 in February 2024, bring the total amount in gifted clothes to £32,000.

These latest gifts were not previously known about as they were described as being “for the private office of the leader of the opposition”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...private-office

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Remember the fuss Labour made about the wallpaper, which I think cost a few grand. At least the wallpaper would have remained on the wall of number 10 as it was not a personal item.

Declaring a second lot of clothing as office expenses but not the first lot stinks of a deliberate act of deception. Would a second lot of clothing look bad? I expect them to trot out an excuse that it was what they were advised to declare it as.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

i read that reeves and rayner also declared clothing as office expenses




https://www.ft.com/content/2a218255-...a-f51dd46795be

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

£32,000 worth of clothes :shocked:

I'd need a warehouse to store that much clothing, what on earth did he get. :erm:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

This isn't M&S clothing it's rich numpty clothing and specs for £1500

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

IIRC that “fuss” wasn’t so much the cost, it was about how it was funded by fellow crony Brownlow, then how Boris hastily retreated and repaid it himself when it went public.

And let’s not forget how each time a Tory MP was asked if Brownlow paid anything towards the renovation, all the response we would get was (and Hancock was a favourite for saying this) “the Prime Minister has met the cost of renovating Downing Street”.

“Did Boris repay Lord Brownlow the money he gave for doing up Downing Street?”

“The Prime Minister has met the cost of renovating Downing Street”.

:sick:

If Starmer reaches and maintains Bullshitting Boris’ level of corruption and cronyism then I’ll see them as equals in terms of politically lining their own pockets and **** the common man.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

make sure no one trips over that dead cat

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I think we need to give Starmer at least the same amount of time Boris had before killing any cats.

Unless of course Kier gives away £32bn to his mates, in which I’ll happily state how much he’s overtaken Boris.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I saw an interview around the time of the election, which I think was with David Starkey. When discussing Starmer being a liar, the presenter said "What, worse than Boris" and the response was "Worse than Blair".

Boris didn't attract this level of scrutiny less than 3 months into his leadership, maybe the bar has been set higher, but if so it's Labour that has set the bar higher with their claim to the moral high ground at every opportunity when they were in opposition.

Starmer is not going to get away with things now he's in power like he did with Beergate.

Labour have been hoisted by their own petard.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

That may well have happened but that's one person's opinion, maybe plenty of others would agree (if roles were reversed, they were talking about a Tory and I was a Tory fanboy this is where I'd say "well all politicians are liars" or something similar) however I'm sure you'd equally find many who would disagree.

I think that would be more about how much was going on hidden in the background. Boris has always loved his "bumbling Mr Bean" gimmick so I don't think we were specifically looking for his corruption to show itself so soon.

In fairness, almost any party could claim the moral high ground when the previous shower of shit was in power but let's face it, that is the job of the Opposition.

I think I can agree with that. 14 years of Tory corruption and mishandling of almost everything made it very easy to criticise them and as you say, Labour will be held to account and so far they're not doing a very good job of it. However, I'll reserve full judgment on Starmer (if he's still PM) by the end of his first term. If Labour matches (or if it can be imagined, exceeds) the Tories for corruption, lies and cronyism etc then I'll equally want them out of power, although perhaps not as strongly as I did for the Tories, they had 14 years to perfect the art (and super-charge my contempt for them).