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-   -   Multiculturalism is dangerous (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712009)

Mr K 19-12-2023 08:57
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
It does seem to be the response to 'smell coffee' when your arguments have been totally debunked !

Personally I prefer tea, it's good to be diverse ;)

Hugh 19-12-2023 09:58
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36166831)
It does seem to be the response to 'smell coffee' when your arguments have been totally debunked !

Personally I prefer tea, it's good to be diverse ;)
Yorkshire Tea, obvs., harvested in the underground tea mines of Keighley (the Otley tea mine was shut down after an explosion).

https://x.com/yorkshiretea/status/96...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

roughbeast 20-12-2023 22:53
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166821)



Sorry to put it this way - but your eyes must be very close together, preventing your ability to focus on reality. IVAN: "Khey, you vant go UK, Abdul?" ABDUL: "Sure - and my friends Ishmael and Moammar?" IVAN: 100% - jump into my truck, I take you now via Finland. From there you go south to France and then simples". PUTIN: "Excellent work, Ivan".

Why should Sunak not be believed? It's actually happening as I cited earlier.



You go too far by using the word "hate". I've explained very cogently what my fears are, shared by millions of Brits if not more. Actors are using "British values" to eventually destroy British Values so that we'll all have to face east. I do not hate Muslims. I do not like Islam as a practised culture, based on my observations over a long number of years. Indeed, Islam does not do multiculturalism.






Please open your eyes and smell the coffee.

Which version of Sephiroth am I replying to today? Is this the version who appears to be aware of nuance in a non-binary world, where absolute extreme positions are hard to maintain or is this the version of Sephiroth who declares that 300,000 peace marchers are all Hamas supporters and believes that Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, is incompatible with our society?

1. A minority of refugees from countries such as China, Afghanistan and Iran flee via Russia. Some of those have been weaponised by Russia, compromising the borders of neighbouring states like Poland and Finland. The vast majority enter Europe via the Mediterranean and Turkey of their own volition with no direction from Wagner or anybody else, but exploited by traffickers. Sunak is looking for excuses for his shambolic and inhumane immigration and asylum policies and is looking for enemies of the state to unify us all against.

2. Islam does do multiculturalism. As I previously pointed out, when Islam was at it's height in terms of geographical spread, there were more Christian churches in Muslim lands than in Christian lands. We see the small Christian community of Gaza hiding under siege in their main church with Israeli snipers picking them off if they venture outside. Mainstream Islam tolerates all three Abrahamic/Ibrahimic religions and had found an accommodation with Hinduism and Sikhism in India before the Brits arrived and destabilised everything, imposing divisive laws against homosexuality and protest. The Prophet also declared that good Muslims should abide by the laws in any country they emigrate to. We both complain about the extremists and I mourn the loss of the moderate Muslim states I encountered in the early 1970s. Islamic extremists are no different than extreme evangelical Christians and Jews. Just take an historical perspective and look at the behaviour and attitudes of so-called Christians in the Bible Belt of the USA and of the extremists driving the expansion of Jewish settlements in occupied Palestine.

Sephiroth 20-12-2023 23:43
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36166940)
Which version of Sephiroth am I replying to today? Is this the version who appears to be aware of nuance in a non-binary world, where absolute extreme positions are hard to maintain or is this the version of Sephiroth who declares that 300,000 peace marchers are all Hamas supporters and believes that Islam, unlike Christianity and Judaism, is incompatible with our society?

1. A minority of refugees from countries such as China, Afghanistan and Iran flee via Russia. Some of those have been weaponised by Russia, compromising the borders of neighbouring states like Poland and Finland. The vast majority enter Europe via the Mediterranean and Turkey of their own volition with no direction from Wagner or anybody else, but exploited by traffickers. Sunak is looking for excuses for his shambolic and inhumane immigration and asylum policies and is looking for enemies of the state to unify us all against.

2. Islam does do multiculturalism. As I previously pointed out, when Islam was at it's height in terms of geographical spread, there were more Christian churches in Muslim lands than in Christian lands. We see the small Christian community of Gaza hiding under siege in their main church with Israeli snipers picking them off if they venture outside. Mainstream Islam tolerates all three Abrahamic/Ibrahimic religions and had found an accommodation with Hinduism and Sikhism in India before the Brits arrived and destabilised everything, imposing divisive laws against homosexuality and protest. The Prophet also declared that good Muslims should abide by the laws in any country they emigrate to. We both complain about the extremists and I mourn the loss of the moderate Muslim states I encountered in the early 1970s. Islamic extremists are no different than extreme evangelical Christians and Jews. Just take an historical perspective and look at the behaviour and attitudes of so-called Christians in the Bible Belt of the USA and of the extremists driving the expansion of Jewish settlements in occupied Palestine.

I'm genuinely honoured that you're asking about two Sephiroth's. At least you recognise the intellectual value offered by one of me. That said, you've correctly described both of me. In particular, Islam as delivered by those at the top, is incompatible with our society.

On your numbered points:

1/
You've conflated Sunak's behaviour with the real illegal immigration issue. These people, some of whom may be terrorists, many/most of whom destroy whatever documentation they possess, land in Europe. Note, Europe. EU law requires them to be processed at first EU entry point. That may be the case in Greece/Italy, but no attempt is made to contain these people who are allowed to drift west where they are trafficked to the UK. We pay France millions to stop the traffic but, they just shepherd the boats across the border line.

My real point is, why should they be allowed to come here?

I am in favour of a properly agreed (with the EU) and managed quota with protocols that allow us to return unauthorised immigrants to France or wherever.

2/
Islam in today's context, does not do multiculturalism. The historical context is not denied. But the historic context pre-dates the machine gun; pre-dates the Ayatollahs; pre-dates 9/11, 7/, Paris, Sderot. Hizbollah keeps Lebanon in submission; Hamas likewise in Gaza - and look how difficult it is to shut that down.

The baddies tend to dominate in present day politics. The Ultras in Israel are as much proof as is needed. Also watch out for the West Bank and military factions that are developing there.

Whatever the Koran says runs contrary to the actual practice in God's name by the largest Islamic states. Koran/Schmoran - it's whatever they want to highlight from there to suit their agenda.

My overriding fear is that the UK's good Muslims would come under the thumb of the baddies, once they have a Parliamentary majority. The baddies would have the guns and the goodies would, at least, be top of the heap (not being infidels).

I seem to look further ahead than you who prefers to refer to the historical context.

Pierre 21-12-2023 00:01
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36166940)
Islam does do multiculturalism.
I mean, it is hilarious, but i wouldn’t open with it.

Quote:
As I previously pointed out, when Islam was at its height in terms of geographical spread, there were more Christian churches in Muslim lands than in Christian lands.
That’s as maybe, but way before the Islamist revolution of Iran, and the Islamist ideological capture of most of the region, which resulted in the almost total eradication of any religion other than Islam.

It’s like saying when Germany was at its height in terms of geographical spread, there were tens of millions of Jews living there, when Germany lost though, there was around six million less Jews.

Quote:
Mainstream Islam tolerates all three Abrahamic/Ibrahimic religions and had found an accommodation with Hinduism and Sikhism
We’re not dealing with mainstream Islam

Quote:
in India before the Brits arrived and destabilised everything, imposing divisive laws against homosexuality and protest.
Avoiding the emotive rhetoric, we didn’t “arrive” we were asked by the forerunner to the UN to administer the region, previously administered by the Ottoman Empire.

Quote:
The Prophet also declared that good Muslims should abide by the laws in any country they emigrate to.
Which they very obviously don’t.

Quote:
We both complain about the extremists and I mourn the loss of the moderate Muslim states I encountered in the early 1970s.
I mourn them too. Before the Islamist revolution in Iran, the region was very progressive. Not a burkha or hijab in sight.

Quote:
Islamic extremists are no different than extreme evangelical Christians and Jews.
Well they are as there are very little, if any, incidents of extreme evangelical Christians and Jew massacring anyone.


Quote:
Just take an historical perspective and look at the behaviour and attitudes of so-called Christians in the Bible Belt of the USA
Oh yes, all the murders, and all the supporting of murders, and marching supporting all the Christian freedom fighting murderers…………………I totally take your point.

TheDaddy 21-12-2023 02:14
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36166940)
2. Islam does do multiculturalism. As I previously pointed out, when Islam was at it's height in terms of geographical spread, there were more Christian churches in Muslim lands than in Christian lands. We see the small Christian community of Gaza hiding under siege in their main church with Israeli snipers picking them off if they venture outside. Mainstream Islam tolerates all three Abrahamic/Ibrahimic religions and had found an accommodation with Hinduism and Sikhism in India before the Brits arrived and destabilised everything imposing divisive laws against homosexuality and protest.
Bloody British, destabilising things by outlawing perfectly reasonable practices like Sati and when you say tolerates and accommodates do you mean by way of Jizya?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36166945)


Avoiding the emotive rhetoric, we didn’t “arrive” we were asked by the forerunner to the UN to administer the region, previously administered by the Ottoman Empire.


Well they are as there are very little, if any, incidents of extreme evangelical Christians and Jew massacring anyone.
Funnily enough the British ran into some particularly nasty extreme evangelical Jews when we were mandated to administer that region

Sephiroth 21-12-2023 04:08
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36166950)
Bloody British, destabilising things by outlawing perfectly reasonable practices like Sati and when you say tolerates and accommodates do you mean by way of Jizya?




Funnily enough the British ran into some particularly nasty extreme evangelical Jews when we were mandated to administer that region
Nothing funny about that. Btw, the Irgun was Begin's lot -> Likud.

---------- Post added at 03:08 ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 ----------


@TheDaddy

Your darling EU has seen the light and echoed Sunak's warning of hostile powers orchestrating illegal immigration.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...tmsource=email

Extract:

Quote:
The European Union has struck a deal to tighten immigration controls, making it easier to deport failed asylum seekers and hold families in detention centres on the bloc’s external borders.

The agreement, reached after three years of negotiations, promises to overhaul how the bloc processes migrants and paves the way for rapid assessments at borders.

Those deemed to have the lowest chance of being granted the right to stay, including families with women and children, will be processed at facilities near the bloc’s external frontiers within three months.

Before that, authorities will have just seven days to determine the status of any asylum seekers.

Those from the likes of Turkey, India and Tunisia, who have a less than 20 per cent acceptance level, are the most likely to be labelled as economic migrants and held at the border before being returned home.

Member states away from the major points of arrival, such as Italy and Greece, will be expected to house asylum seekers to ease the burden on southern Europe.

European capitals that refuse to take in migrants can instead opt to pay financial compensation to other EU countries hosting more asylum seekers or contribute to the cost of programmes in third countries aimed at reducing migratory flows.

But it offers no change to the bloc’s Dublin regulation, which dictates that asylum seekers should seek protection in the first EU country they enter, which is most often Greece or Italy.
Quote:
Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission president, added: “It means that Europeans will decide who comes to the EU and who can stay, not the smugglers. It means protecting those in need.”
Quote:
The senior Eurocrat insisted the deal would protect the bloc “when hostile countries deliberately attempt to destabilise the EU”, echoing a similar recent warning from Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister


ianch99 21-12-2023 10:13
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166943)

I'm genuinely honoured that you're asking about two Sephiroth's. At least you recognise the intellectual value offered by one of me. That said, you've correctly described both of me. In particular, Islam as delivered by those at the top, is incompatible with our society.

On your numbered points:

1/
You've conflated Sunak's behaviour with the real illegal immigration issue. These people, some of whom may be terrorists, many/most of whom destroy whatever documentation they possess, land in Europe. Note, Europe. EU law requires them to be processed at first EU entry point. That may be the case in Greece/Italy, but no attempt is made to contain these people who are allowed to drift west where they are trafficked to the UK. We pay France millions to stop the traffic but, they just shepherd the boats across the border line.

My real point is, why should they be allowed to come here?

I am in favour of a properly agreed (with the EU) and managed quota with protocols that allow us to return unauthorised immigrants to France or wherever.

2/
Islam in today's context, does not do multiculturalism. The historical context is not denied. But the historic context pre-dates the machine gun; pre-dates the Ayatollahs; pre-dates 9/11, 7/, Paris, Sderot. Hizbollah keeps Lebanon in submission; Hamas likewise in Gaza - and look how difficult it is to shut that down.

The baddies tend to dominate in present day politics. The Ultras in Israel are as much proof as is needed. Also watch out for the West Bank and military factions that are developing there.

Whatever the Koran says runs contrary to the actual practice in God's name by the largest Islamic states. Koran/Schmoran - it's whatever they want to highlight from there to suit their agenda.

My overriding fear is that the UK's good Muslims would come under the thumb of the baddies, once they have a Parliamentary majority. The baddies would have the guns and the goodies would, at least, be top of the heap (not being infidels).

I seem to look further ahead than you who prefers to refer to the historical context.
You say you offer "intellectual value" yet then utter phrases like "We pay France millions to stop the traffic but, they just shepherd the boats across the border line". You are a contradiction.

Regarding Islam, you seem to focus on the extreme wing of the religion and represent it as the whole. I guess nuance is a bridge to far. You are painting a near future of religious Armageddon: a gun-toting Parliamentary majority. This is cult level fantasy.

I do agree with you on the Islamist danger specifically it's role in radicalising the impressionable young. One of the key ways this is done is by allowing the provision of faith schools that can depart from the mainstream curriculum and so provide an opportunity to teach the more radical forms of Islam. If all children of immigrants attended state schools they would mix with their peers who would ideally come from many backgrounds and so provide a context for integration. This approach should apply to all faiths.

Sephiroth 21-12-2023 10:28
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36166958)
You say you offer "intellectual value" yet then utter phrases like "We pay France millions to stop the traffic but, they just shepherd the boats across the border line". You are a contradiction.

Regarding Islam, you seem to focus on the extreme wing of the religion and represent it as the whole. I guess nuance is a bridge to far. You are painting a near future of religious Armageddon: a gun-toting Parliamentary majority. This is cult level fantasy.

I do agree with you on the Islamist danger specifically it's role in radicalising the impressionable young. One of the key ways this is done is by allowing the provision of faith schools that can depart from the mainstream curriculum and so provide an opportunity to teach the more radical forms of Islam. If all children of immigrants attended state schools they would mix with their peers who would ideally come from many backgrounds and so provide a context for integration. This approach should apply to all faiths.
If you wanted to call my views 'fantasy', then the "cult level" qualifier you put onto that is bizarre.

One f my main points is, and has been throughout this thread, that if there is a Muslim parliamentary majority, then the baddies will take over; the zealots, the jihadis; the ones who have already demonstrated their specialities.

Hugh 21-12-2023 11:10
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166960)
If you wanted to call my views 'fantasy', then the "cult level" qualifier you put onto that is bizarre.

One f my main points is, and has been throughout this thread, that if there is a Muslim parliamentary majority, then the baddies will take over; the zealots, the jihadis; the ones who have already demonstrated their specialities.
Not if the shapeshifting reptilian humanoids get in first…

TheDaddy 21-12-2023 11:47
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166953)
Nothing funny about that. Btw, the Irgun was Begin's lot -> Likud.
Funny can mean odd or strange, like the funny feeling I have about you, nothing to do with humour, I'd never conflate you with that


Quote:
Your darling EU has seen the light and echoed Sunak's warning of hostile powers orchestrating illegal immigration.
Interesting last line, countries attempting to destabilise the EU, like Russian influence on a referendum,

1andrew1 21-12-2023 12:07
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166960)
One of my main points is, and has been throughout this thread, that if there is a Muslim parliamentary majority, then the baddies will take over; the zealots, the jihadis; the ones who have already demonstrated their specialities.
How does this particular conspiracy theory play out? Extreme Muslims get elected under the pretence of being moderate Muslims then show their true faces and leave the EHRC so they can impose their laws which take their inspiration from the Gulf States?

Sephiroth 21-12-2023 12:29
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36166964)
How does this particular conspiracy theory play out? Extreme Muslims get elected under the pretence of being moderate Muslims then show their true faces and leave the EHRC so they can impose their laws which take their inspiration from the Gulf States?
It plays out like everywhere that despots have taken control after free elections.

Gaza was one example; Lebanon another (hostage to Hizbollah). Zimbabwe; Iran, Russia.

jonbxx 21-12-2023 13:40
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Just dipping and and there are some strong Great Replacement Theory vibes from some people here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

Just lovely..

Hugh 21-12-2023 13:45
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Unfortunately for your hypothesis, none of your examples remotely resemble the U.K. either politically, historically, or ethnically

To be credible, you need to show how politicians from one specific ethnic minority would be able to gather the majority of votes in 326 separate constituencies…

ianch99 21-12-2023 15:57
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36166960)
If you wanted to call my views 'fantasy', then the "cult level" qualifier you put onto that is bizarre.

One f my main points is, and has been throughout this thread, that if there is a Muslim parliamentary majority, then the baddies will take over; the zealots, the jihadis; the ones who have already demonstrated their specialities.
Not really. Cult members are often fantasists.

Hugh 21-12-2023 17:08
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36166973)
Just dipping and and there are some strong Great Replacement Theory vibes from some people here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

Just lovely..
Surely no one on this forum would believe in that - as the Encyclopaedia Brittanica says

Quote:
Replacement theory has been widely ridiculed for its blatant absurdity.

It has been just as widely condemned for its encouragement of racist violence through its toxic allegation that nonwhite immigrants (as well as the Jewish figures who allegedly direct their immigration) pose an existential threat to whites.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/replacement-theory

Sephiroth 22-12-2023 00:56
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

It’s called immigration - esp. orchestrated migration as we are seeing. Eventually they’ll have the numbers ( with more 7/7s on the way).



Hugh 22-12-2023 01:17
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
"Orchestrated immigration"?

Orchestrated by who?

Sephiroth 22-12-2023 01:36
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Already explained by me, Sunak and your darling EU. My explanation more specific than the politicians’.



---------- Post added at 00:36 ---------- Previous post was at 00:35 ----------


Btw, all. Greetings fro Canberra. At the Botanical Gardens right now.


spiderplant 22-12-2023 11:24
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167021)

Btw, all. Greetings fro Canberra. At the Botanical Gardens right now.

Ah, so you're in a country where immigrants actually did take over. Please let us know how the multiculturalism is going.

Sephiroth 22-12-2023 12:24
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36167034)
Ah, so you're in a country where immigrants actually did take over. Please let us know how the multiculturalism is going.

Your sarcasm is noted.

Maggy 22-12-2023 12:43
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36166961)
Not if the shapeshifting reptilian humanoids get in first…
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

mrmistoffelees 23-12-2023 18:45
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167037)

Your sarcasm is noted.
Perfectly valid point made.

Or, is it that immigrants taking over a country & culture perfectly acceptable so long as they’re white Christians?

Sephiroth 24-12-2023 04:07
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36167104)
Perfectly valid point made.

Or, is it that immigrants taking over a country & culture perfectly acceptable so long as they’re white Christians?
We are talking about this country, not Australia.

Your point is foolishly made.

Hugh 24-12-2023 10:56
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167137)
We are talking about this country, not Australia.

Your point is foolishly made.
Wasn’t your first post in this thread about things that had happened in "another country"?

Does that mean the assertions in that post were "foolishly made"?

GrimUpNorth 24-12-2023 11:42
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167153)
Wasn’t your first post in this thread about things that had happened in "another country"?

Does that mean the assertions in that post were "foolishly made"?
Yep, first line of the first post in the thread was a warning about what's going on in France. Last time I checked France was definitely another country, glad I did check as they wanted to see my passport when I went.

Sephiroth 24-12-2023 12:43
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
You are being deliberate silly billies.

Very obviously, my warnings are about what could happen in the UK. Comparisons are made with other countries.

Hugh 24-12-2023 13:03
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167158)
You are being deliberate silly billies.

Very obviously, my warnings are about what could happen in the UK. Comparisons are made with other countries.
Do you mean like this comparison made with another country?

Quote:
Ah, so you're in a country where immigrants actually did take over. Please let us know how the multiculturalism is going.
You must have kangaroos loose in the top paddock…

Mr K 24-12-2023 15:14
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167158)
You are being deliberate silly billies.

Very obviously, my warnings are about what could happen in the UK. Comparisons are made with other countries.
The UK has been multi- cultural ever since the 1950's. It was necessary then as an after effect of the war. Its necessary now as we aren't having enough kids to serve our ageing population. Try not to worry about it too much, you're in danger of becoming a bit obsessed. Times change.

Have a Merry Christmas :xmas:

Russ 24-12-2023 18:27
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167160)
You must have kangaroos loose in the top paddock…
Once I saw a kangaroo in my neighbour’s garden.

Turned out to be a greyhound having a shit. My bad.

Sorry, as you were.

Chris 24-12-2023 18:51
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167160)
Do you mean like this comparison made with another country?



You must have kangaroos loose in the top paddock…
Maybe he bought Inchconnachan. :D

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...-west-53345309

Pierre 25-12-2023 22:25
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36167163)
The UK has been multi- cultural ever since the 1950's.
We should be striving for a mono-cultural, multi-ethnic society.

Maggy 26-12-2023 13:31
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167158)
You are being deliberate silly billies.

Very obviously, my warnings are about what could happen in the UK. Comparisons are made with other countries.
And how do you think that your postings on this site will change anything.After all this site is primarily for users of cable and other televisual outlets.There's not a lot of visitors looking for your views on multiculturalism visiting this site.

Paul 26-12-2023 19:22
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Well that could be said about anyones posts on here, about any subject.
I dont think anyone actually thinks or believes our postings will change anything.

Russ 26-12-2023 19:41
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Unless your initials are RC….

Sephiroth 22-01-2024 19:53
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

If you ever wanted proof of my assertion, here it is. The teachers of the Wembley school (and others) have been threatened with their lives. What sort of acceptable culture does this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...paign=DM266212

Quote:
he best school in the country, measured by the progress made by its pupils, is not what many would expect. It does not select by ability or by postcode. It serves a deprived community in Wembley, London. It is unapologetically strict and rigorous in its teaching.

Michaela, founded by Katharine Birbalsingh, is loathed by many on the Left, who despise its methods and resent its success. But the news that a pupil is suing the school over restrictions on ritual prayer has shocked many on the Right. “How could this happen?” ask immigration liberals and advocates of multiculturalism, with a naivety that is difficult to believe.

The answer is plain. In many respects, and compared to other countries, Britain has succeeded in managing its newly multiracial identity. But in other obvious and very visible ways, it is failing. There is widespread self-segregation along ethnic and religious lines in British towns and cities. In many schools, segregation is more pronounced than in the communities they serve.

Meanwhile, backed by ideological academics and lawyers, and encouraged or appeased by politicians and public bodies, activists peddling grievance harry individuals and organisations to win favour, special treatment and institutional power.

They can do so thanks to the structures, laws and norms we ourselves have created. And the Michaela example is a case in point.

The school is a sort of Singapore of the British education system. Just as Lee Kuan Yew concluded that his multiracial city state could only maintain peace through uncompromisingly tough justice, so Birbalsingh ensures her pupils are treated equally under a tough school disciplinary policy. Everyone eats vegetarian meals to avoid religious segregation at lunchtimes. There is no prayer room for any religion.

Birbalsingh says she asks pupils from all backgrounds to make sacrifices so all can live in harmony. “Our school must be a place,” she explains, “where children of all races and religions buy into something they all share and is bigger than ourselves: our country.”

But this vision is rejected by activists and their facilitators, who demand exceptionalism, not equality.

It is no longer enough, in their worldview, to treat people equally. They argue we must treat people differently, in order to respect their beliefs and achieve equality not of opportunity but of outcome.

Some go further still: they are more interested in turning invented hierarchies of oppression upside down – which is why so many of them tolerate discrimination against whites and Jews.

At Michaela, half its 700 pupils are Muslim. When around 30 started public prayer rituals in the shared playground, the governing body intervened. Birbalsingh explains that the decision was taken “against a backdrop of events including violence, intimidation and appalling racial harassment of our teachers”. Staff received death threats and were told the school would be bombed.

Now, an unnamed pupil is suing Michaela, backed by over £100,000 in legal aid, and likely much more to come. The student had already been in trouble after being accused of intimidating other Muslim pupils who did not fast during Ramadan, and was suspended last year for allegedly threatening to stab another child (which the pupil denied).

They are supported by a law firm in receipt of huge sums in public funding. They have instructed a barrister from Matrix Chambers, the legal practice specialising in human rights co-founded by Cherie Blair.

Even though the school policy applies to all faiths, the Matrix argument is that it is a de facto Muslim prayer ban, because Islamic prayer is ritualised and not internal. Christian children, they say, are still allowed to pray personally and quietly.

This all appears to come from the extremist playbook. As Ed Husain explains in The Islamist, the “total Islamization of the public space at college (open prayers, Islamist posters, women in hijab)” is an expression of power and intimidation – of staff, other pupils and other Muslims. At Michaela, when the playground prayers began, more aggressive behaviour followed. A girl was pressured to wear a hijab. Another left the choir because she was told music was haram. Others were pressured to pray in public.

It is no coincidence that MEND, described by the Shawcross review of Prevent as having a “well-established track record of working alongside extremists”, and the Muslim Council of Britain, subject to a “no-engagement” policy by ministers over extremism concerns, have both campaigned for school spaces to be given over to Muslim prayer sessions.

This all matters, because our failure is shaping the kind of society we are fast becoming. This case ought to be a wake-up call, but it is not an isolated example. In east London, Barclay Primary School has police officers stationed on-site after receiving threats following the headteacher’s decision to prohibit political symbols, including the Palestinian flag.

Another east London school, St Stephen’s, was intimidated into dropping its ban on primary-age children wearing the hijab. There were Islamist protests against sex education outside schools in Birmingham, and the Trojan horse plot, when activists attempted to take over state schools and impose a hardline Islamic ethos.

There is the Batley teacher, still in hiding after showing a depiction of Muhammed in a religious education class, and the kangaroo court held in a Wakefield mosque after a boy lightly scuffed a copy of the Quran.

Extremists are turning our schools – and other public institutions – into a battleground. But instead of confronting them, the authorities are appeasing and encouraging them.

Our laws, especially equality and human rights laws, allow extremists and activists to play the state and society like a fiddle, while workplaces and public services have succumbed to political correctness and American critical race theory.

Instead of letting ideologues destroy them, we need to build more institutions like Michaela – resilient, unifying, and focused entirely on excellence. In Wembley and elsewhere, this is the choice we face. It could not be more serious.


Hugh 22-01-2024 20:48
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
It’s completely wrong for anyone to do this, but unfortunately, it’s all too common…

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/teachers-t...rows-escalate/

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...hools-teachers

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-new...arents-1634924

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/248671...death-threats/

Sephiroth 22-01-2024 20:51
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36168743)
Which further underlines my assertion.

Stephen 22-01-2024 21:52
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
It's not multiculturalism that's the issue at all. It's extremism which happens with many cultures and religions.

Sephiroth 22-01-2024 22:03
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36168750)
It's not multiculturalism that's the issue at all. It's extremism which happens with many cultures and religions.
So, the Muslim Labour MPs are extremists? The Muslim Children at the Brent school are extremists? The extremists in that particular culture have murdered a lot of people in the UK in the name of that culture/religion.

There are cultures, I grant, that have fitted in quite well. But that culture does not do multiculturalism.

Stephen 22-01-2024 22:17
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168751)
So, the Muslim Labour MPs are extremists? The Muslim Children at the Brent school are extremists? The extremists in that particular culture have murdered a lot of people in the UK in the name of that culture/religion.

There are cultures, I grant, that have fitted in quite well. But that culture does not do multiculturalism.
Honestly what is your problem? Now you are trying to twist what I said and put words in my mouth. Just stop seriously.

1andrew1 22-01-2024 23:48
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168744)
Which further underlines my assertion.
Swap the l for an m in your third word and I'll agree with you.

Sephiroth 22-01-2024 23:51
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36168754)
Swap the l for an m in your third word and I'll agree with you.
Why are you and your cohort blind to what's going on?

Mr K 23-01-2024 08:48
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168755)
Why are you and your cohort blind to what's going on?
Have some neighbours moved in that you don't like?

Most 'Problem people' I've encountered have been very Anglo Saxon and intolerant of those that don't look and think as they do.

Pierre 23-01-2024 10:22
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36168750)
It's not multiculturalism that's the issue at all. It's extremism which happens with many cultures and religions.
It's true, all the schools and teachers in the UK, I read about being threatened by Christian extremists, Buddhist extremists, Sikh extremists, Hindu extremists, Jewish extremists....

---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36168763)
Have some neighbours moved in that you don't like?

Most 'Problem people' I've encountered have been very Anglo Saxon and intolerant of those that don't look and think as they do.
Explain to the Bradford Grammar School teacher, who is still in hiding, about tolerance.

Sephiroth 23-01-2024 11:57
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36168763)
Have some neighbours moved in that you don't like?

Most 'Problem people' I've encountered have been very Anglo Saxon and intolerant of those that don't look and think as they do.
You people deliberately ignore what’s going on before your very eyes. Death threats, violence threats, etc; all because special treatment hasn’t been afforded.


Mr K 23-01-2024 13:07
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168769)
You people deliberately ignore what’s going on before your very eyes. Death threats, violence threats, etc; all because special treatment hasn’t been afforded.

What I see is people filling vital roles in public services that the ingenious population isn't filling. There are nutters from all quarters of society.

Look on the bright side, look of the variety of eateries we have these days. In 1950 it was just fish and chips. Diversity enriches us, don't you think ? ;)

Hugh 23-01-2024 13:47
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168769)
You people deliberately ignore what’s going on before your very eyes. Death threats, violence threats, etc; all because special treatment hasn’t been afforded.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2024/01/3.gif

ianch99 23-01-2024 14:01
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
From 2018 but I think it still resonates today:

Brexit and Trump voters more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, survey study shows

Quote:
Close to half of respondents who voted for Brexit (47%) and Trump (44%) believe their government is hiding the truth about immigration, compared with just 14% of Remain voters and 12% of Clinton voters.

The researchers also set out to measure the extent of belief in a conspiracy theory known as ‘the great replacement’: the idea that Muslim immigration is part of a bigger plan to make Muslims the majority of a country’s population.

“Originally formulated in French far-right circles, the widespread belief in a supposedly outlandish nativist conspiracy theory known as the ‘great replacement’ is an important marker and predictor of the Trump and Brexit votes,” said Leal. Some 41% of Trump voters and 31% of Brexit voters subscribed to this theory, compared with 3% of Clinton voters and 6% of Remain voters.

Stephen 23-01-2024 14:09
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
There's the problem right there. The far right. Not immigrants or religion.

Pierre 23-01-2024 14:23
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36168778)
What I see is people filling vital roles in public services that the ingenious population isn't filling.
I don't see that.

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36168785)
There's the problem right there. The far right. Not immigrants or religion.
Anybody to the right of Jeremy Corbin is branded "far right" nowadays. It's now a meaningless epithet, the same as Racist and Nazi, and these are just slung at anyone that doesn't agree with the leftists.

Sephiroth 23-01-2024 14:31
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36168785)
There's the problem right there. The far right. Not immigrants or religion.
What - the far right are the ones threatening teachers and schools? Or is that also putting words into your mouth?

Hugh 24-01-2024 00:59
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36168743)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36168744)
Which further underlines my assertion.
Tell me you didn’t read the links without telling me you didn’t read the links…

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36168754)
Swap the l for an m in your third word and I'll agree with you.
Exactly…

Stephen 24-01-2024 01:26
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36168743)
Not surprised at that last one. I used to live in Kent and the Isle of Sheppey has always had a bad rep. Had a few birthday parties in the leisure centre in Sheerness and a friend from school lived there and he still does. There used to just be a single bridge on or off the island not to mention a prison there. So it's always been a not nice place.
Quote:
Crime and Safety in Sheerness, Kent. Sheerness is the second most dangerous small town in Kent, and is among the top 10 most dangerous overall out of Kent's 331 towns, villages, and cities. The overall crime rate in Sheerness in 2022 was 181 crimes per 1,000 people.
:rolleyes:

richard-john56 24-01-2024 17:19
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36168849)
Not surprised at that last one. I used to live in Kent and the Isle of Sheppey has always had a bad rep. Had a few birthday parties in the leisure centre in Sheerness and a friend from school lived there and he still does. There used to just be a single bridge on or off the island not to mention a prison there. So it's always been a not nice place.
:rolleyes:
I live in Kent but not the northern part as the majority of these places are listed as Turd Towns (see YouTube) videos of the same name and also other places in the UK.

Stephen 24-01-2024 17:45
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard-john56 (Post 36168876)
I live in Kent but not the northern part as the majority of these places are listed as Turd Towns (see YouTube) videos of the same name and also other places in the UK.
I lived in Rainham, went to school in Chatham. Back in the 80s and 90s Gillingham Chatham weren't awful but from friends that still live there they are pretty terrible now. Especially Gillingham. Only good thing to do there is go see The Gills at Priestfield.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 10:29
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Btw, I lived in Rainham (Park Wood) for 5 years in the days when Bobbie Gentry performed in Chatham. That was culture.

But, with these Muslim asylum seekers now faking Christianity to gain residence status, and with the Church of England collaborating, and with the revelations that we can't implement our own anti-illegal-immigration laws, Shit Creek just expanded.

Stephen 07-02-2024 10:45
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
There is only 1 person being talked about as having said he was a Christian stop inflating the the issue beyond what it is.

You seem to love to exaggerate.

TheDaddy 07-02-2024 11:48
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169551)
There is only 1 person being talked about as having said he was a Christian stop inflating the the issue beyond what it is.

You seem to love to exaggerate.
I know quite a few people who were Christians who converted to either come here or come here and marry a Christian woman and have now converted back to Islam once indefinite leave to remain was secured or the relationship broke down, never really thought about it until this broke

roughbeast 07-02-2024 12:15
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169549)
Btw, I lived in Rainham (Park Wood) for 5 years in the days when Bobbie Gentry performed in Chatham. That was culture.

But, with these Muslim asylum seekers now faking Christianity to gain residence status, and with the Church of England collaborating, and with the revelations that we can't implement our own anti-illegal-immigration laws, Shit Creek just expanded.
I apologise for not responding to this thread for quite a while. My absence was mostly because of tedious and ignorant comments like yours Sephi. A rational human can only take so much, and can only waste a certain amount of time trying to persuade binary thinkers that the world is not made up of extremes. :rolleyes:

"These Muslims" you say? Straight away, on the basis of one incident of apparent opportunistic conversion to Christianity, you have stereotyped all Muslim asylum seekers as being dodgy and dishonest grifters. There's no subtlety or room for the fact that most Muslims are regular proud Muslims with no wish to change faith. On this basis you declare that there has now been a massive expansion of a non-existent problem.


You couldn't make this farcical interpretation up! Oh! You just did.

Pierre 07-02-2024 13:19
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169551)
There is only 1 person being talked about as having said he was a Christian stop inflating the the issue beyond what it is.

You seem to love to exaggerate.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-christianity/

well there's forty more

https://christianconcern.com/comment...sylum-seekers/

Oh and look

Quote:
Around 200 asylum seekers had converted from Islam to Christianity in the previous four years after completing a short five-week baptism course at the cathedral.


---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36169556)

"These Muslims" you say? Straight away, on the basis of one incident of apparent opportunistic conversion to Christianity, you have stereotyped all Muslim asylum seekers as being dodgy and dishonest grifters. There's no subtlety or room for the fact that most Muslims are regular proud Muslims with no wish to change faith. On this basis you declare that there has now been a massive expansion of a non-existent problem.


You couldn't make this farcical interpretation up! Oh! You just did.
That didn't age well.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 13:35
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169551)
There is only 1 person being talked about as having said he was a Christian stop inflating the the issue beyond what it is.

You seem to love to exaggerate.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-christianity/

Quote:
Forty asylum seekers on the Bibby Stockholm barge are converting to Christianity amid growing fears that migrants are claiming to have changed their religion in order to stay in the country.

Nearly one in seven of the 300 migrants on the barge in Portland, Dorset, are attending churches under the supervision of local faith leaders, according to a church elder.

The disclosure comes amid a growing row over the role of UK churches in supporting the conversion to Christianity of migrants including Abdul Shokoor Ezedi, the suspected Clapham chemical attacker.
[/COLOR]


[/COLOR]

---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36169556)
I apologise for not responding to this thread for quite a while. My absence was mostly because of tedious and ignorant comments like yours Sephi. A rational human can only take so much, and can only waste a certain amount of time trying to persuade binary thinkers that the world is not made up of extremes. :rolleyes:

"These Muslims" you say? Straight away, on the basis of one incident of apparent opportunistic conversion to Christianity, you have stereotyped all Muslim asylum seekers as being dodgy and dishonest grifters. There's no subtlety or room for the fact that most Muslims are regular proud Muslims with no wish to change faith. On this basis you declare that there has now been a massive expansion of a non-existent problem.


You couldn't make this farcical interpretation up! Oh! You just did.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-christianity/

Quote:
Forty asylum seekers on the Bibby Stockholm barge are converting to Christianity amid growing fears that migrants are claiming to have changed their religion in order to stay in the country.

Nearly one in seven of the 300 migrants on the barge in Portland, Dorset, are attending churches under the supervision of local faith leaders, according to a church elder.

The disclosure comes amid a growing row over the role of UK churches in supporting the conversion to Christianity of migrants including Abdul Shokoor Ezedi, the suspected Clapham chemical attacker.

Taf 07-02-2024 13:54
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
UK officials are being quite vague as to why there has been a large increase in cases of measles. But I have seen reports that uptake of the vaccine is very low amongst muslims due to rumours that all the vaccines are pig-based.

As the vaccine is not 100% effective, that has meant cases amongst non-muslims who mix with the unvaccinated.

Stephen 07-02-2024 13:55
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
How many of them commited a crime BEFORE they were given the right to stay here?

You can't just tar everyone with the same brush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36169562)
UK officials are being quite vague as to why there has been a large increase in cases of measles. But I have seen reports that uptake of the vaccine is very low amongst muslims due to rumours that all the vaccines are pig-based.

As the vaccine is not 100% effective, that has meant cases amongst non-muslims who mix with the unvaccinated.
No vaccine is 100% effective at stopping the virus concerned. They reduce the risk of spread and getting severly ill.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 14:16
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169563)
How many of them commited a crime BEFORE they were given the right to stay here?

You can't just tar everyone with the same brush.


No vaccine is 100% effective at stopping the virus concerned. They reduce the risk of spread and getting severly ill.
The current bunch of boat people are committing crimes by just coming here without visa clearance.

The latest thing in support of my contentions is the Muslim political movement that is developing. Labour (leadership to its credit) hasn't given significant way to the 6x Muslim MPs who have tried to change Labour policy on Israel so , they Muslims will try to gain parliamentary influence through the ballot box. That will be an alien culture who will apply pressure to further that culture, which would be to the detriment of ours - Sharia Law, for example. Thin end of the wedge - and, whether or not you agree, Hamas sympathisers abound in that ethnic group as shown in the weekly demonstrations.

Chris 07-02-2024 14:22
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169565)
The current bunch of boat people are committing crimes by just coming here without visa clearance.

The latest thing in support of my contentions is the Muslim political movement that is developing. Labour (leadership to its credit) hasn't given significant way to the 6x Muslim MPs who have tried to change Labour policy on Israel so , they Muslims will try to gain parliamentary influence through the ballot box. That will be an alien culture who will apply pressure to further that culture, which would be to the detriment of ours - Sharia Law, for example. Thin end of the wedge - and, whether or not you agree, Hamas sympathisers abound in that ethnic group as shown in the weekly demonstrations.
Seph - you have been challenged on this canard numerous times and you really ought not repeat it without offering some evidence for how it’s possible.

Our electoral system rewards concentration of support in local areas. As long as minority ethnic communities remain in communities - as culturally, they tend to want to - then it doesn’t matter how many individual Muslim voters there are, there is simply no path for them to gain anything close to a majority of parliamentary seats. And in any case, the idea that the population growth is linear is a fallacy. It is tailing off, reducing the birth rate in line with the death rate, the same as it does everywhere in the world that anchieves low infant mortality and good survival rates into old age. And no amount of immigration is going to fundamentally alter that.

Hugh 07-02-2024 15:58
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169565)
The current bunch of boat people are committing crimes by just coming here without visa clearance.

The latest thing in support of my contentions is the Muslim political movement that is developing. Labour (leadership to its credit) hasn't given significant way to the 6x Muslim MPs who have tried to change Labour policy on Israel so , they Muslims will try to gain parliamentary influence through the ballot box. That will be an alien culture who will apply pressure to further that culture, which would be to the detriment of ours - Sharia Law, for example. Thin end of the wedge - and, whether or not you agree, Hamas sympathisers abound in that ethnic group as shown in the weekly demonstrations.
Not that simple, is it, though?

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...n-a-small-boat

Quote:
Under existing British law, it’s illegal to enter the country without a visa or special permission. That means someone who reaches the UK on a small boat could face up to four years in prison.

But people who make the Channel crossing are protected by international law if they claim asylum once they arrive.

That means they can’t be punished while their application is being considered – and if they’re successful, they won’t be prosecuted for the way they arrived.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 16:03
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Doesn't existing British law disallow asylum claims from illegal entrants to the UK?

The matter then becomes a clash between that and interpretation of our obligations under International law.

And don't forget, these are not genuine asylum seekers. They are cheats, freeloaders, possible terrorists, etc.

Stephen 07-02-2024 16:11
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
No the point of someone coming to a country and claiming asylum is they want safety from persecution or fleeing war if their country isn't safe.

So of course they will likely be illegal when they arrive, likely having left most of their personal belongings behind. I'm sure international law presides in cases of seeking asylum to enter a country.

Also not all are liars, cheats and fakes. However passing judgement on someone is not possible and to call them such is unfair.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 16:59
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169576)
No the point of someone coming to a country and claiming asylum is they want safety from persecution or fleeing war if their country isn't safe.

So of course they will likely be illegal when they arrive, likely having left most of their personal belongings behind. I'm sure international law presides in cases of seeking asylum to enter a country.

Also not all are liars, cheats and fakes. However passing judgement on someone is not possible and to call them such is unfair.
They are coming from France. They have dumped their documents. They are cheats, liars and fakes. Everyone knows this and if you don't, there's a problem.

Stephen 07-02-2024 17:02
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169584)
They are coming from France. They have dumped their documents. They are cheats, liars and fakes. Everyone knows this and if you don't, there's a problem.
If you think all of them are like that then it's you that clearly have a problem. Of course they come via France, how else would they get to an island:rolleyes:

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 17:12
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169585)
If you think all of them are like that then it's you that clearly have a problem. Of course they come via France, how else would they get to an island:rolleyes:
What's the matter with you? They are in France and should seek asylum there.

Let's say there are one or two in there with documents and who are potentially genuine cases? Then they'd have been genuine in France.

Why do you think they want to come here? They can freeload from our weak immigration system. They are cheats, liars and fakes and have no business to be here.

TheDaddy 07-02-2024 17:30
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169588)
What's the matter with you? They are in France and should seek asylum there.

Let's say there are one or two in there with documents and who are potentially genuine cases? Then they'd have been genuine in France.

Why do you think they want to come here? They can freeload from our weak immigration system. They are cheats, liars and fakes and have no business to be here.
Now what did you call my idea for peace in Gaza (that's mostly been adopted btw) oh yes cloud cuckoo land or something iirc, well that's you and your rationales here, they've fled some of the worlds armpits and paid a fortune for the privilege and you think they're here to freeload? Don't you think a somewhat saner idea is that they're here because they have family here, can speak the language or know there's people here more than willing to exploit them through cash in hand black market jobs?

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 17:48
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36169589)
Now what did you call my idea for peace in Gaza (that's mostly been adopted btw) oh yes cloud cuckoo land or something iirc, well that's you and your rationales here, they've fled some of the worlds armpits and paid a fortune for the privilege and you think they're here to freeload? Don't you think a somewhat saner idea is that they're here because they have family here, can speak the language or know there's people here more than willing to exploit them through cash in hand black market jobs?
You're so wrong on so many levels.

1/
Peace in Gaza: Adopted by who? Israel? Hamas? And, of course, nothing to do with the illegal migrants other than those who might be Islamic terrorists.

2/
Freeloading: Of course they're here to freeload. We're a soft touch as an immigration system. This doesn't happen in Australia.


3/
Black market jobs: Yep - that's the one they come here for.

4/
Relatives: Sure. But we have immigration rules and they shouldn't abuse our immigration rules when coming from a safe country.

Pierre 07-02-2024 18:22
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169576)
Also not all are liars, cheats and fakes.
Well if they’re claiming asylum many of them are.

They’re economic migrants. Converting to Christianity, gaming the system so they can claim they would be under threat if they were sent back to whatever Islamic country they’ve come from.

If someone was genuinely claiming asylum, I’d be sympathetic but these aren’t genuine asylum seekers in the main.

But as I’ve said in other posts/threads the small boats aren’t the issue, yes they need to be stopped but legal migration is too high and out of control. Totally within the government’s control.

Small boats, Rwanda etc, is just a smokescreen for the governments total ineptitude to control migration.

roughbeast 07-02-2024 18:53
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169559)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-christianity/



---------- Post added at 12:35 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------



Forty asylum seekers on the Bibby Stockholm barge are converting to Christianity amid growing fears that migrants are claiming to have changed their religion in order to stay in the country.

Nearly one in seven of the 300 migrants on the barge in Portland, Dorset, are attending churches under the supervision of local faith leaders, according to a church elder.

The disclosure comes amid a growing row over the role of UK churches in supporting the conversion to Christianity of migrants including Abdul Shokoor Ezedi, the suspected Clapham chemical attacker.


Characteristically, you are assuming the worst of converting Muslims.

Imagine that you had escaped a brutal Muslum regime where your life was in danger because you are a political opponent or you helped the west as a translator. You arrive in a European country to seek asylum. Whether you have been declared illegal, as in the UK, or you are awaiting a decision in a more civilised European country, you then get helped by local Christian groups. Against your expectations, you are treated like a human, given food and clothing and generally shown compassion. As a believer in the same god as the Christians, imagine the relief there must be when you realise the relative liberation of modern Christians as opposed to the brand of Islam you just escaped.

Muslims are converting to Christianity all over Europe. In most cases, given their plight back in their own country, they would have been granted asylum anyway, Christian or not. In the UK, where genuine refugees are being declared illegal even though they are not illegal in international law, their emotional response to the only compassion many are offered will be driving many to Christianity.

I would have thought, Sephi, that you would be relieved at the epiphany so many Muslims are experiencing and which is leading them away from Islam, a religion you regard as poisonous.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-christianity

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36169557)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-christianity/

well there's forty more

https://christianconcern.com/comment...sylum-seekers/

Oh and look



---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------



That didn't age well.

What didn't age well? Are you assuming that all these conversions are opportunistic?

See my response to Sephi. There's a different interpretation.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 19:02
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36169595)
Characteristically, you are assuming the worst of converting Muslims.

Imagine that you had escaped a brutal Muslum regime where your life was in danger because you are a political opponent or you helped the west as a translator. You arrive in a European country to seek asylum. Whether you have been declared illegal, as in the UK, or you are awaiting a decision in a more civilised European country, you then get helped by local Christian groups. Against your expectations, you are treated like a human, given food and clothing and generally shown compassion. As a believer in the same god as the Christians Imagine the relief there must be when you realise the relative liberation of modern Christians as opposed to the brand of Islam you just escaped.

Muslims are converting to Christianity all over Europe. In most cases, given their plight back in their own country, they would have been granted asylum anyway, Christian or not. In the UK, where genuine refugees are being declared illegal even though they are not illegal in international law, their emotional response to the only compassion many are offered will be driving many to Christianity.

I would have thought, Sephi, that you would be relieved at the epiphany so many Muslims are experiencing and which is leading them away from Islam, a religion you regard as poisonous.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...g-christianity

Quote:
Imagine that you had escaped a brutal Muslum regime where your life was in danger because you are a political opponent or you helped the west as a translator. You arrive in a European country to seek asylum. Whether you have been declared illegal, as in the UK, or you are awaiting a decision in a more civilised European country, you then get helped by local Christian groups. Against your expectations, you are treated like a human, given food and clothing and generally shown compassion. As a believer in the same god as the Christians Imagine the relief there must be when you realise the relative liberation of modern Christians as opposed to the brand of Islam you just escaped.
What's wrong with the person seeking asylum in the first European country they enter? You mention local Christian groups. These people, if in the UK, are being fooled by most, if not all the migrants who are gaming our system. Also, you've stated that the converting Muslims are relieved to have got away from that nasty Islam that they so despised. That is total, naive, fancy.

Quote:
Muslims are converting to Christianity all over Europe. In most cases, given their plight back in their own country, they would have been granted asylum anyway, Christian or not. In the UK, where genuine refugees are being declared illegal even though they are not illegal in international law, their emotional response to the only compassion many are offered will be driving many to Christianity.
Good - let them do that; in Europe - not here when it's during their detention and they're gaming the system. Are you blind?

Quote:
I would have thought, Sephi, that you would be relieved at the epiphany so many Muslims are experiencing and which is leading them away from Islam, a religion you regard as poisonous.
I regard those illegal migrants as poisonous as you regard my view of Islam. Anyone with a genuine reason for asylum should apply in France or elsewhere in Europe. Better still if they haven't destroyed their documents.

Stephen 07-02-2024 19:32
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169597)



What's wrong with the person seeking asylum in the first European country they enter? You mention local Christian groups. These people, if in the UK, are being fooled by most, if not all the migrants who are gaming our system. Also, you've stated that the converting Muslims are relieved to have got away from that nasty Islam that they so despised. That is total, naive, fancy.



Good - let them do that; in Europe - not here when it's during their detention and they're gaming the system. Are you blind?



I regard those illegal migrants as poisonous as you regard my view of Islam. Anyone with a genuine reason for asylum should apply in France or elsewhere in Europe. Better still if they haven't destroyed their documents.
Are you forgetting that we are still in Europe. It's a continent.

Sephiroth 07-02-2024 20:18
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169603)
Are you forgetting that we are still in Europe. It's a continent.
You're playing on words. These liars, cheats and fakes are gaming our poor immigration system. If they were genuine, they'd apply for asylum in France or elsewhere on the main continent.

Mr K 07-02-2024 20:27
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169610)
You're playing on words. These liars, cheats and fakes are gaming our poor immigration system. If they were genuine, they'd apply for asylum in France or elsewhere on the main continent.
I'd worry more about our home grown inactive, on benefits, ageing population. That's what's killing the country.

Hugh 07-02-2024 21:33
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36169613)
I'd worry more about our home grown inactive, on benefits, ageing population. That's what's killing the country.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2024/02/1.gif

Pierre 07-02-2024 22:34
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36169595)
What didn't age well? Are you assuming that all these conversions are opportunistic?
.
Post deleted - don’t use asterisks to get round the swear filter

1andrew1 08-02-2024 01:12
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169610)
You're playing on words. These liars, cheats and fakes are gaming our poor immigration system. If they were genuine, they'd apply for asylum in France or elsewhere on the main continent.
Things they didn't print on the red bus No. 23 "Vote Brexit for a more multi-cultural Britain"

Mr K 08-02-2024 07:43
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36169644)
Things they didn't print on the red bus No. 23 "Vote Brexit for a more multi-cultural Britain"
Tbf would have needed to be a long bus.

Pierre 08-02-2024 08:50
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by roughbeast (Post 36169595)

Are you assuming that all these conversions are opportunistic?

.
Absobloodylutely I am.

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 10:02
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169610)
You're playing on words. These liars, cheats and fakes are gaming our poor immigration system. If they were genuine, they'd apply for asylum in France or elsewhere on the main continent.
1. Because they don’t have too there’s a myriad of reasons why people may choose to arrive in the U.K some legitimate others not so

2. Can you provide your factual source for them being liars,cheats & fakes ? The home office doesn’t publish a breakdown of who is a genuine refugee vs economic migrant.

Pierre 08-02-2024 11:01
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36169650)
The home office doesn’t publish a breakdown of who is a genuine refugee vs economic migrant.
If only they did.

Sephiroth 08-02-2024 11:20
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36169650)
1. Because they don’t have too there’s a myriad of reasons why people may choose to arrive in the U.K some legitimate others not so

2. Can you provide your factual source for them being liars,cheats & fakes ? The home office doesn’t publish a breakdown of who is a genuine refugee vs economic migrant.
Even you know it's true. The link I provided earlier to the 40 or so migrants on the barge who declare a wish to convert to Christianity is proof enough. As is the filmed ditching of documents in the Channel.

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 11:29
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169658)
Even you know it's true. The link I provided earlier to the 40 or so migrants on the barge who declare a wish to convert to Christianity is proof enough. As is the filmed ditching of documents in the Channel.
So that’s true of forty people subset you’re then extrapolating to cover the whole number ?

So, by your logic a subset of people who are racist, xenophobic bigots hold the same opinion as you, I can therefore extrapolate, and that makes you the same ?

Sephiroth 08-02-2024 11:32
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36169659)
So that’s true of forty people subset you’re then extrapolating to cover the whole number ?

So, by your logic a subset of people who are racist, xenophobic bigots hold the same opinion as you, I can therefore extrapolate, and that makes you the same ?
Most, if not all. First, thje 40 try the Christianity wheeze, then another 40, then the rest. Are you blind? Or just taking me on for the fun of it (you're welcome)?

As for your second paragraph, ridiculous.

Stephen 08-02-2024 11:37
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
So your opinion that all imigrants are thieves liars and cheats is factually correct based on 40 converting to Christianity. But a different option that says that if some people are racist, xenophobic bigots then everyone must be, is silly?

Ok

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 11:45
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169660)
Most, if not all. First, thje 40 try the Christianity wheeze, then another 40, then the rest. Are you blind? Or just taking me on for the fun of it (you're welcome)?

As for your second paragraph, ridiculous.
So, you’re allowed to make sweeping generalisations and group people based on a small data sample? But I’m not. Is that correct ?

And to help your answer you don’t need to go into your usual diatribe. A very simple yes or no will suffice.

Sephiroth 08-02-2024 11:47
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36169661)
So your opinion that all imigrants are thieves liars and cheats is factually correct based on 40 converting to Christianity. But a different option that says that if some people are racist, xenophobic bigots then everyone must be, is silly?

Ok
Don't be deliberately silly. You know exactly what I'm saying about the dangers of undocumented boat migrants, who have deliberately disposed of their documents and are obviously resorting to any wheeze to stay here.

What's wrong with asylum in the EU if they're genuine? They are liars, cheats and fakes. You, some others on the forum, and the Arch Kent of Cant foolishly think otherwise.

I'll ask you this: Shouldn't the UK protect its borders?

Stephen 08-02-2024 11:54
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169663)
Don't be deliberately silly. You know exactly what I'm saying about the dangers of undocumented boat migrants, who have deliberately disposed of their documents and are obviously resorting to any wheeze to stay here.

What's wrong with asylum in the EU if they're genuine? They are liars, cheats and fakes. You, some others on the forum, and the Arch Kent of Cant foolishly think otherwise.

I'll ask you this: Shouldn't the UK protect its borders?
Again you are just making sweeping generalisations based on a small number. There is no evidence or confirmation that any or all of then have 'dumped' there passports or legal documentation. Many paid a fortune to try and escape where they were. That should inform you they were that desperate to leave their own country. You don't go to those lengths just to be freeloaders or thieves.

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 11:59
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169663)
Don't be deliberately silly. You know exactly what I'm saying about the dangers of undocumented boat migrants, who have deliberately disposed of their documents and are obviously resorting to any wheeze to stay here.

What's wrong with asylum in the EU if they're genuine? They are liars, cheats and fakes. You, some others on the forum, and the Arch Kent of Cant foolishly think otherwise.

I'll ask you this: Shouldn't the UK protect its borders?
My little englander, the stench of desperation emanating from you is like a 12yr old discovering lynx Africa for the first time.

Your point regarding the seeking of asylum in the EU has already been answered yet you’ve chosen to ignore it.

Sephiroth 08-02-2024 12:02
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Whatever - to both of you. No point in continuing this ping pong.

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 12:11
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169666)
Whatever - to both of you. No point in continuing this ping pong.
Perhaps you would like to respond to your question I answered regarding why people don’t just choose to settle in Europe ? Or, perhaps you could answer the question I asked which required a very simple yes or no answer

Both of which provide ample opportunities to continue the discussion?

Sephiroth 08-02-2024 12:23
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Can't be bothered. You're blind to the obvious even if there are a minority of migrants who have relatives here. But those exceptions are still not entitled to be here in the UK and they are gaming the system. If you don't see that, then maybe you can answer a question: how many is enough?l

mrmistoffelees 08-02-2024 12:33
Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36169669)
Can't be bothered. You're blind to the obvious even if there are a minority of migrants who have relatives here. But those exceptions are still not entitled to be here in the UK and they are gaming the system. If you don't see that, then maybe you can answer a question: how many is enough?l
They’re entitled to be here if the home office decides they are and the home office agrees that people are entitled to be here in approx seventy odd percent (if iirc) of cases

I’ll be honest I don’t know ‘how many is enough’ I don’t have a number,

I do believe two things

1. You’re afraid to answer the questions put to you and therefore you’re deflecting.

2. Your idea of controlled migration is 0 people arriving because they should go somewhere else first


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