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-   -   Liz Truss Resigns [Who'll be the next Prime Minister?] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711301)

nomadking 23-09-2022 14:35
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36134788)
Help me out as I'm not great with numbers, Which is 5%. How does that equate to a 46p tax cut?
It's not even 5%, as it's 5% of earnings above £150,000, not the whole £150,000. The greater the earnings are above £150,000, the nearer the reduction gets to 5%. Eg £15m income gets a 4.95% reduction, but a £160,000 income has a 0.3125% reduction.

1andrew1 23-09-2022 15:17
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36134788)
Help me out as I'm not great with numbers
Is that you, Kwasi? :D

noel43 23-09-2022 16:07
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36134795)
It's not even 5%, as it's 5% of earnings above £150,000, not the whole £150,000. The greater the earnings are above £150,000, the nearer the reduction gets to 5%. Eg £15m income gets a 4.95% reduction, but a £160,000 income has a 0.3125% reduction.
Miscalculation on my part. thought was getting rid of upper tax bracket completely

nomadking 23-09-2022 17:28
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36134799)
Miscalculation on my part. thought was getting rid of upper tax bracket completely
They will be paying 40% instead of 45% on income above £150,000.

Paul 23-09-2022 20:55
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
The NI rise was never popular, so I doubt anyone will complain about it going away.
The 1% cut was already planned for 2024, all this has done is bring it forward to April 2023.
The removal of the 45% band is, however, perplexing, it helps no one who needs it, and those who will "benefit" will likely not even notice.

Mr K 23-09-2022 21:49
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134823)
The NI rise was never popular, so I doubt anyone will complain about it going away.
The 1% cut was already planned for 2024, all this has done is bring it forward to April 2023.
The removal of the 45% band is, however, perplexing, it helps no one who needs it, and those who will "benefit" will likely not even notice.
Those on an NHS waiting list or needing ongoing care might notice the NI cut.

The 1% cut in income tax, and top rate cut we can't afford. All borrowing and making the next generation pay, again and stuffing the pockets of themselves and mates.

Increased riches for bankers at the expense of the NHS.
Why can't the greedy (b)ankers settle for a clap, like the nurses have to?

1andrew1 23-09-2022 22:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Like many observers, the mini budget strikes me as being a bit financially reckless. But two things I'm pleased about are altering planning permission for the cheapest form of energy - onshore wind turbines - and the re-introduction of VAT refunds for overseas retail customers.

Damien 23-09-2022 22:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
We had all better hope this works. If it doesn't we'll have huge debt and an economy in recession, it will be a disaster and we'll have spent billions on a failed solution with a weak pound and very high borrowing costs. It would be the worst economic situation we've seen in decades?

Those who think it'll just be a matter of getting the Tories out will be wrong as well because in the event that happens then Labour will need to hike taxes without the ability to spend much.

1andrew1 23-09-2022 22:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134833)
We had all better hope this works. If it doesn't we'll have huge debt and an economy in recession, it will be a disaster and we'll have spent billions on a failed solution with a weak pound and very high borrowing costs. It would be the worst economic situation we've seen in decades?

Those who think it'll just be a matter of getting the Tories out will be wrong as well because in the event that happens then Labour will need to hike taxes without the ability to spend much.
I guess if you're a new government in 2024/5 then there may still be an opportunity to introduce an energy providers' windfall tax, raise taxes on the higher paid and up corporation tax. But that won't make much of an impact on the debt mountain.

Mr K 23-09-2022 22:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
As of tonight a dollar very nearly equals a pound. The UKs value is plummeting .

OLD BOY 24-09-2022 01:55
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134731)
So the NHS and social care, which is what it was intended for, can go swing.

False economy folks paid for by borrowing, to be paid back by us all with interest later. Bleeding socialists.

Nope. It just gets paid in a different way. Keep up, Mr K!

---------- Post added at 01:45 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134770)
And the pound is falling. fast.
You do realise that a weak pound helps exports!

---------- Post added at 01:48 ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 36134764)
That's always the time they seem to start watering it :rolleyes:
Why is it strange? The lefties forced our last PM out of office, and you now have a new PM with a different plan.

Sooner or later, Starmer will realise his mistake

---------- Post added at 01:51 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36134772)
But the rich Will get a 46p tax cut.
Are you more concerned about the benefit to the rich than the positive impact this will have for the economy?

Don’t bother responding. I know the answer I will get from you ! ;)

---------- Post added at 01:55 ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36134779)
So we've tried levelling up which didn't work now we're trying trickle down and all that's happening is the richest are still getting richer. All Liz has shown is whether up or down whatever the Conservatives call it their aim is to increase the wealth of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

Anything traded in $'s is going to cost more so any marginal tax break enjoyed by the masses will be swallowed up in the increased cost of living.
The poor will always be poor. I don’t know why you are surprised by this.

If you can’t be arsed to get a decent job, why should hard working people have to pay for you? It’s our money they are stealing because they can’t be bothered. Go figure.

jfman 24-09-2022 02:50
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134836)
Nope. It just gets paid in a different way. Keep up, Mr K!

---------- Post added at 01:45 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------



You do realise that a weak pound helps exports!

---------- Post added at 01:48 ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 ----------



Why is it strange? The lefties forced our last PM out of office, and you now have a new PM with a different plan.

Sooner or later, Starmer will realise his mistake

---------- Post added at 01:51 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------



Are you more concerned about the benefit to the rich than the positive impact this will have for the economy?

Don’t bother responding. I know the answer I will get from you ! ;)

---------- Post added at 01:55 ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 ----------



The poor will always be poor. I don’t know why you are surprised by this.

If you can’t be arsed to get a decent job, why should hard working people have to pay for you? It’s our money they are stealing because they can’t be bothered. Go figure.
:rofl:

Positive impact on the economy. :rofl:

Interesting, but unsurprising, your loathing of the poor has you in the gutter describing them as stealing as opposed to condemning employers who pay poverty wages that need supported by “in work benefits”.

Contemptible.

“The poor will always be poor” should be on the front page of the next Conservative manifesto.

Hugh 24-09-2022 08:43
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134836)
Why is it strange? The lefties forced our last PM out of office, and you now have a new PM with a different plan..
These "lefties"?

Quote:
Resignations from Johnson’s Government

Cabinet
Chancellor Rishi Sunak
Health Secretary Sajid Javid
Welsh Secretary Simon Hart
Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis
Education Secretary Michelle Donelan

Ministers
Will Quince, education minister
Alex Chalk, solicitor general
Robin Walker, education minister
John Glen, Treasury minister
Victoria Atkins, justice minister
Jo Churchill, environment minister
Stuart Andrew, housing minister
Kemi Badenoch, levelling up minister
Neil O'Brien, levelling up minister
Alex Burghart, education minister
Lee Rowley, business minister
Julia Lopez, culture minister
Mims Davies, work and pensions minister
Rachel Maclean, Home Office minister
Mike Freer, equalities minister
Edward Argar, health minister
Helen Whately, treasury minister
Damian Hinds, security minister
George Freeman, science minister
Guy Opperman, pensions minister
Chris Philp, technology minister
James Cartlidge, courts minister
Caroline Johnson, Conservative Party vice-chair
Luke Hall, deputy chair of the Conservative Party
Rebecca Pow, environment minister

Parliamentary private secretaries
Jonathan Gullis, Northern Ireland Office
Saqib Bhatti, Department of Health and Social Care
Nicola Richards, Department of Transport
Virginia Crosbie, Welsh Office
Laura Trott, Department of Transport
Felicity Buchan, Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy
Selaine Saxby, Treasury
Claire Coutinho, Treasury
David Johnston, Department for Education
Duncan Baker, Department for Levelling Up
Craig Williams, Treasury
Mark Logan, Northern Ireland Office
Sara Britcliffe, Department for Education
Ruth Edwards, Scottish Office
Peter Gibson, Department for International Trade
James Sunderland, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Jacob Young, Department for Levelling Up
Mark Fletcher, Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy
James Daly, Department for Work and Pensions
Danny Kruger, Department for Levelling Up
Dr James Davies, Department of Health and Social Care
Gareth Davies, Department of Health and Social Care
Rob Butler, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office

Others
Bim Afolami, vice-chairman of the Conservative Party for youth
Andrew Murrison, trade envoy to Morocco
Theodora Clarke, trade envoy to Kenya
David Duguid, trade envoy to Angola and Zambia
David Mundell, trade envoy for New Zealand
Richard Graham, trade envoy for South East Asia


---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134836)
The poor will always be poor. I don’t know why you are surprised by this.

If you can’t be arsed to get a decent job, why should hard working people have to pay for you? It’s our money they are stealing because they can’t be bothered. Go figure.
What salary level do you think a "decent job" has, so they don’t have to "steal our money"?

Pierre 24-09-2022 10:24
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134833)
We had all better hope this works. If it doesn't we'll have huge debt and an economy in recession, it will be a disaster and we'll have spent billions on a failed solution with a weak pound and very high borrowing costs. It would be the worst economic situation we've seen in decades?

Those who think it'll just be a matter of getting the Tories out will be wrong as well because in the event that happens then Labour will need to hike taxes without the ability to spend much.
Whatever you do, don’t panic, or over react!

Sephiroth 24-09-2022 14:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
To me, it's very simple.

The Guvmin's gone shit or bust with its (rather lame) measures. They didn't move the tax threshold between 20% and 40%.

The UK is already shit (as in broken) and well bust. So something unconventional like this might work whereas doing nothing or doing it Sunak's way doubles down on shit and bust.

Now, will the NHS improve? Not quickly and Coffey is difficult to pin down, which is what I hate about them.

And yesterday as Kwarteng was spouting, the same heads as before were busy nodding. Oh despair.

Paul 24-09-2022 20:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134829)
Those on an NHS waiting list or needing ongoing care might notice the NI cut.
It doubt it was never going to make any meaningful difference.
The NHS just eats money, a fair bit is almost certainly being wasted.

The waiting list will probably take years to recover from the pandemic (it was already rising anyway).
At the start of 2016 it was 3.5 million, at the start of 2022, just before lockdowns, it was 4.40 million.
Bizarrely, in the first few months of the pandemic, it shrank to 3.8 million, but since then its shot up to 6.8 million.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-su...-data-analysis

OLD BOY 24-09-2022 20:17
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36134846)
These "lefties"?



---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:41 ----------



What salary level do you think a "decent job" has, so they don’t have to "steal our money"?
Anyone being taxed, don’t you think?

Hugh 24-09-2022 20:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134885)
Anyone being taxed, don’t you think?
You think £12,571 is a decent salary? People earning that receive benefits, so according to your post, "why should hard working people have to pay for you? It’s our money they are stealing because they can’t be bothered."

Or you could try answering the question with a figure - what salary level do you think a "decent job" has, so they don’t have to "steal our money"?

OLD BOY 24-09-2022 20:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134842)
:rofl:

Positive impact on the economy. :rofl:

Interesting, but unsurprising, your loathing of the poor has you in the gutter describing them as stealing as opposed to condemning employers who pay poverty wages that need supported by “in work benefits”.

Contemptible.

“The poor will always be poor” should be on the front page of the next Conservative manifesto.
Well, if it draws in more investors and wealth creators, of course that will have a positive effect. If you think otherwise, instead of ridiculing the poster, why don’t you try explaining why you think the opposite?

I don’t loathe the poor at all, that’s just your spin. But I do think that if people are able to work, then they should do so rather than sponge off the rest of us. That, indeed, is as good as stealing.

I think you will find that most people paying taxes feel the same way.

Hugh 24-09-2022 20:28
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...pany-b90hdkj5z

Quote:
The prime minister’s chief of staff is being paid through his lobbying company in a highly unusual arrangement that could allow him to pay less tax.

Mark Fullbrook insists he is not being paid through his company for tax reasons and has obtained no tax benefit from the arrangement. However, he is refusing to explain the agreement that lets him direct government strategy without being directly employed by the government.

Previous holders of the role have been treated like any other special adviser (Spad), appointed on a temporary civil service contract and paid a salary that is made public. Fullbrook is instead a contractor and will receive any payment through Fullbrook Strategies, a private lobbying company he created in April but which he says has suspended commercial activities.

One Whitehall source said it was “unheard of” for a No 10 official of his seniority to be employed in this way although Fullbrook disputed this. It is unclear what the implications of the arrangement are from a financial and transparency perspective.

Between April and June, according to the Office of the Registrar of Consultant Lobbyists, Fullbrook’s company contacted the government on behalf of clients including the Libyan House of Representatives, which is opposed by the West and the UN, an energy provider and a PPE firm linked to a fundamentalist Christian sect.

It announced it had “suspended” its commercial activities earlier this month after Fullbrook was appointed by Liz Truss to be her top aide.

However he is continuing to use it as a vehicle to receive his publicly funded salary. The equivalent post under Boris Johnson carried a salary of £140,000.

The arrangement will lead to questions days after No 10 scrapped the so-called IR35 reforms of previous Conservative governments that were designed to stop people paying themselves via a company to avoid tax.

In 2019, HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) won a case against BBC presenters who were told to pay back hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax after working via personal service companies when they were employees in all but name.

jfman 24-09-2022 20:47
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134888)
Well, if it draws in more investors and wealth creators, of course that will have a positive effect.
:rofl:

“If” followed by “of course”. Priceless.

Quote:
If you think otherwise, instead of ridiculing the poster, why don’t you try explaining why you think the opposite?
I’m free to ridicule your spurious and unevidenced claims all I please. The most immediate issue is the fall in the pound, immediately giving everyone in a cost of living crisis greater inflationary pressure for anything which the baseline cost is either euro or dollars. I dunno, like oil.

Quote:
I don’t loathe the poor at all, that’s just your spin. But I do think that if people are able to work, then they should do so rather than sponge off the rest of us. That, indeed, is as good as stealing.
So it’s not stealing?

Quote:
I think you will find that most people paying taxes feel the same way.
:rofl:

I know there are mugs that have been convinced their enemy is folk on benefits and not those evading in billions in taxes in various wheezes.

Remember OB we know you’ve got form in this regard in wanting to steamroller workers rights and conditions.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...4&postcount=31

OLD BOY 24-09-2022 21:08
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134895)
:rofl:

“If” followed by “of course”. Priceless.



I’m free to ridicule your spurious and unevidenced claims all I please. The most immediate issue is the fall in the pound, immediately giving everyone in a cost of living crisis greater inflationary pressure for anything which the baseline cost is either euro or dollars. I dunno, like oil.



So it’s not stealing?



:rofl:

I know there are mugs that have been convinced their enemy is folk on benefits and not those evading in billions in taxes in various wheezes.

Remember OB we know you’ve got form in this regard in wanting to steamroller workers rights and conditions.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...4&postcount=31
What this is, is a complete evasion of the points I made. I am not indulging you on this. I consider the post to which you are referring as unanswered.

Suits me.

jfman 24-09-2022 21:15
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134899)
What this is, is a complete evasion of the points I made. I am not indulging you on this. I consider the post to which you are referring as unanswered.

Suits me.
You may consider it as such but the rebuttal is clear, Comical Ali. Your post is baseless speculation, grounded in unhinged hope more than reality. :rofl:

If it weren’t for your seething hatred for the poor I’d be genuinely worried about your state of mind. However you aren’t worthy of my concern.

OLD BOY 24-09-2022 21:27
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134900)
You may consider it as such but the rebuttal is clear, Comical Ali. Your post is baseless speculation, grounded in unhinged hope more than reality. :rofl:

If it weren’t for your seething hatred for the poor I’d be genuinely worried about your state of mind. However you aren’t worthy of my concern.
Yes, you rebut it, but as usual, you offer no explanation.

This is meant to be a discussion. So discuss.

jfman 24-09-2022 21:32
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134906)
Yes, you rebut it, but as usual, you offer no explanation.

This is meant to be a discussion. So discuss.
OB the last time you had a boozy night on the forum I got a 24 hour ban from the thread so this is my final post for now. You state on one hand you aren’t indulging me, yet needlessly continue your tit for tat despite ignoring the point I made about the inflationary pressure on the cost of living resulting from the fall in the value of the pound.

Thus we can only conclude you have no meaningful insight to offer other than your insults of “lefties”, “the poor” and baseless speculation about the income of forum members with whom you disagree.

Your bitterness that Boris was ousted - by his party and not anyone else - as a justification for abandoning the manifesto, abandoning fiscal rules, saddling future generations with more debt for little/nothing in terms of future stability.

They’re at the roulette wheel with money we don’t even have and you’re blindly following.

Sephiroth 24-09-2022 22:18
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134900)
You may consider it as such but the rebuttal is clear, Comical Ali. Your post is baseless speculation, grounded in unhinged hope more than reality. :rofl:

If it weren’t for your seething hatred for the poor I’d be genuinely worried about your state of mind. However you aren’t worthy of my concern.

You usually make good points, John. But OB has already said, very clearly, that he doesn't hate the poor. Indeed he, like most of us, have no reason to.

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134907)
OB the last time you had a boozy night on the forum I got a 24 hour ban from the thread so this is my final post for now. You state on one hand you aren’t indulging me, yet needlessly continue your tit for tat despite ignoring the point I made about the inflationary pressure on the cost of living resulting from the fall in the value of the pound.

Thus we can only conclude you have no meaningful insight to offer other than your insults of “lefties”, “the poor” and baseless speculation about the income of forum members with whom you disagree.

Your bitterness that Boris was ousted - by his party and not anyone else - as a justification for abandoning the manifesto, abandoning fiscal rules, saddling future generations with more debt for little/nothing in terms of future stability.

They’re at the roulette wheel with money we don’t even have and you’re blindly following.

Ah - "lefties"......

As regards the roulette wheel, as I've already said, they might as well roll the dice because doing nothing is just as disastrous.

Dave42 24-09-2022 23:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
torygraph saying Liz Truss faces a rebellion from Tory backbenchers against her tax cuts if the pound falls below the dollar

Jaymoss 25-09-2022 08:44
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36134914)
torygraph saying Liz Truss faces a rebellion from Tory backbenchers against her tax cuts if the pound falls below the dollar
$1.09 to the £ I do not think I have ever seen it this low

Pierre 25-09-2022 09:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36134917)
$1.09 to the £ I do not think I have ever seen it this low
Good job I’m not going to the US in the near future. I am however going to Spain in a couple of weeks and that’s fine as the Euro is also in the toilet.

jfman 25-09-2022 09:30
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
€1.12 the lowest it’s been all year.

GrimUpNorth 25-09-2022 10:02
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36134919)
Good job I’m not going to the US in the near future. I am however going to Spain in a couple of weeks and that’s fine as the Euro is also in the toilet.
I'm glad we never got a round to cashing in the $'s we've got as we're hoping to get back there in the next few months.

Sephiroth 25-09-2022 11:51
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134920)
€1.12 the lowest it’s been all year.
Climate change, mate.

Face it, the world’s in some turmoil and rolling the dice I was Truss’ only option in Britain’s case.

1andrew1 25-09-2022 12:03
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Not unexpected given the current labour shortages
Quote:
Liz Truss to review visa schemes in bid to ease UK labour shortages

PM set to defy anti-immigration Conservative MPs by boosting intake in some industries

Liz Truss is to launch a big review of Britain’s visa system to tackle acute labour shortages in key industries in a move that was welcomed by business leaders.

The prime minister is set to defy some of her anti-immigration cabinet colleagues by making changes to the “shortage occupation list”, allowing certain industries to bring in more staff — such as broadband engineers — from overseas.

The review could also endorse a loosening of the requirement to speak English in some sectors to enable more foreign workers into the country.

Inclusion on the Home Office list allows migrants from outside the EU simpler entry to Britain owing to lower visa fees and a waiving of employers’ usual duty to prove that there is no suitable local worker for the role. In the longer term, migrants do not have to meet the £35,800 salary threshold required to settle in the UK after five years.

Allies of Truss said the new prime minister was committed to ensuring the UK would remain a world leader in attracting and retaining talented workers.

But her review of the immigration system is likely to run into opposition from some Brexiters in her cabinet, given anti-immigration sentiment was a key driver of the vote to leave the EU in 2016.
https://www.ft.com/content/de5e54e2-...1-860f52d5d1e3

jfman 25-09-2022 12:46
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134932)
Not unexpected given the current labour shortages

https://www.ft.com/content/de5e54e2-...1-860f52d5d1e3
A race to the bottom. Undermining wages, adding pressure to public services already at breaking point.

Sephiroth 25-09-2022 15:14
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134934)
A race to the bottom. Undermining wages, adding pressure to public services already at breaking point.
Where else will we find the carers (Brits don’t want those jobs?). Nurses and doctors (it takes years to train doctors)? Anywhere else there’s labour shortage?

Paul 25-09-2022 15:40
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Is there a glut of fully trained doctors / nurses / carers in other countries ?

Sephiroth 25-09-2022 16:06
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134944)
Is there a glut of fully trained doctors / nurses / carers in other countries ?
Not that I know of. I was merely commenting on the Guvmin’s motivation in response to Jinan’s remarks.

Why do you ask?

OLD BOY 25-09-2022 16:30
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134934)
A race to the bottom. Undermining wages, adding pressure to public services already at breaking point.
It won’t undermine wages if there are not enough people to recruit. Immigration should relate to the needs of industry where there are insufficient people from the U.K. to take those jobs.

Damien 25-09-2022 16:43
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134941)
Where else will we find the carers (Brits don’t want those jobs?). Nurses and doctors (it takes years to train doctors)? Anywhere else there’s labour shortage?
We can pay them more for a start. Being a carer, especially adult care for people with difficulties, is a stressful and challenging job and yet many of these carers would be better off working in Tesco.

OLD BOY 25-09-2022 17:38
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134949)
We can pay them more for a start. Being a carer, especially adult care for people with difficulties, is a stressful and challenging job and yet many of these carers would be better off working in Tesco.
I agree. Every effort should be made by employers to recruit within the UK, which should include offering an appropriate rate of pay. Employers should have to show that they have genuinely tried to recruit without success before getting permission to recruit from overseas.

jfman 25-09-2022 18:07
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134948)
It won’t undermine wages if there are not enough people to recruit. Immigration should relate to the needs of industry where there are insufficient people from the U.K. to take those jobs.
Of course it undermines wages. Rather than pay enough to recruit they’re increasing labour supply by importing it. Basic capitalist economics I’m sure even you could understand!

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134950)
I agree. Every effort should be made by employers to recruit within the UK, which should include offering an appropriate rate of pay. Employers should have to show that they have genuinely tried to recruit without success before getting permission to recruit from overseas.
Pay more. I know driving up working conditions is an alien concept to you, but generally the population view it as desirable.

OLD BOY 25-09-2022 18:47
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134951)
Of course it undermines wages. Rather than pay enough to recruit they’re increasing labour supply by importing it. Basic capitalist economics I’m sure even you could understand!.
You assume too much and read things into comments that aren’t there.

I don’t know whose wages you think it undermines when the people wanting such work in this country simply aren’t there.

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134951)

Pay more. I know driving up working conditions is an alien concept to you, but generally the population view it as desirable.
With that I agree, and provide suitable training, too. That is exactly what the government has been advocating post Brexit.

Unfortunately there are too many people who are fit to work but just claiming benefits without even trying to find work.

One person I know hasn’t worked for years. She’s fit and healthy but simply doesn’t want to work. But she’s been claiming benefits all this time. If she can do this so easily, why would she want to go to work?

So unless we tackle these people head on, employers will continue to struggle in getting people to do low paid jobs.

1andrew1 25-09-2022 21:18
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134934)
A race to the bottom. Undermining wages, adding pressure to public services already at breaking point.
It's penalising British workers as there's no reciprocity.

Dave42 25-09-2022 22:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134956)
It's penalising British workers as there's no reciprocity.
exactly workers get condemned for asking for a rise but government going to borrow billions just to give to the very rich it total madness

OLD BOY 25-09-2022 23:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36134957)
exactly workers get condemned for asking for a rise but government going to borrow billions just to give to the very rich it total madness
It’s to encourage wealth creation and to grow the economy. We will all benefit from such a policy.

Dave42 25-09-2022 23:53
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134958)
It’s to encourage wealth creation and to grow the economy. We will all benefit from such a policy.
utter nonsense trickle down economics has never worked OB man all that do is move it to there off shore bank accounts or save it all it does is make the rich get richer the rest get screwed

1andrew1 26-09-2022 07:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Sterling hit $1.035 in Asian trading on Monday before recovering to $1.056. Reason given is the unfunded tax cuts. Similarly weaker against the Euro too. Source: FT.

---------- Post added at 07:13 ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134930)
Climate change, mate.

Face it, the world’s in some turmoil and rolling the dice I was Truss’ only option in Britain’s case.
The house tends to win when you gamble. ;) This is Corbynomics Plus.

Someone wittier than me has now dubbed the Chancellor Kami Kwasi. :D

Damien 26-09-2022 08:12
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
This is at risk of becoming a full-scale run. Thankfully the fall this morning has levelled off somewhat. Will the Bank of England do an emergency rate rise?

1andrew1 26-09-2022 08:39
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134967)
This is at risk of becoming a full-scale run. Thankfully the fall this morning has levelled off somewhat. Will the Bank of England do an emergency rate rise?
Rates will definitely rise - whether it will be an emergency rise or not is the question.

denphone 26-09-2022 09:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134958)
It’s to encourage wealth creation and to grow the economy. We will all benefit from such a policy.
Have you any statistical proof that trickle down economics works because all the evidence so far says it does not happen.

jfman 26-09-2022 09:09
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134953)
You assume too much and read things into comments that aren’t there.

I don’t know whose wages you think it undermines when the people wanting such work in this country simply aren’t there.
Every time a company imports labour it undermines wages across a number of sectors because they are choosing not to pay the market rate in this country for it.

If people don’t “want” to do types of work they should incentivise them. Pay more.

Quote:
With that I agree, and provide suitable training, too. That is exactly what the government has been advocating post Brexit.

Unfortunately there are too many people who are fit to work but just claiming benefits without even trying to find work.

One person I know hasn’t worked for years. She’s fit and healthy but simply doesn’t want to work. But she’s been claiming benefits all this time. If she can do this so easily, why would she want to go to work?

So unless we tackle these people head on, employers will continue to struggle in getting people to do low paid jobs.
A lovely piece of anecdotal evidence supported by nothing. You have no way of knowing on what basis the DWP are awarding her benefits.

Employers should pay more to encourage people into low paid jobs.

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134974)
Have you any statistical proof that trickle down economics works because all the evidence so far says it does not happen.
Except those in “low paid jobs” who are better off on benefits, allegedly.

1andrew1 26-09-2022 09:44
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
The Dollar has been thriving this year so it's been tempting to believe that s successful US economy is behind the weak Pound. The truth is somewhat more sobering.
Quote:
Pound is worst G10 currency this year

The latest slump in the pound makes it the worst performing G10 currency in the year to date.

It's now down 21.1pc against the dollar and is veering dangerously close to parity.

Other underperfomers among the G10 include the Japanese yen and Swedish krona, which are both down 19.9pc against the dollar.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news...70f6af44df29e4

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134974)
Have you any statistical proof that trickle down economics works because all the evidence so far says it does not happen.
It's less about evidence and more about the faith in most religions, and the religion of trickle down economics is no exception to this rule.

peanut 26-09-2022 09:48
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is how it usually works...

Attachment 30170

BenMcr 26-09-2022 10:04
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134963)
Someone wittier than me has now dubbed the Chancellor Kami Kwasi. :D
Unfortunately that basically means 'Divine Kwasi'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami

Quote:
Kami (Japanese: 神, [kaꜜmi]) are the deities, divinities, spirits, phenomena or "holy powers", that are venerated in the religion of Shinto.

jfman 26-09-2022 10:28
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
I’m sure his former colleagues shorting the pound will find his input divine.

1andrew1 26-09-2022 10:46
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36134981)
Unfortunately that basically means 'Divine Kwasi'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kami
:D
Good research

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134982)
I’m sure his former colleagues shorting the pound will find his input divine.
Is this him discussing it with them? #Multi-tasking
https://twitter.com/LouisHenwood/sta...90023661699074

Dave42 26-09-2022 12:17
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Politics live: Tories 'already putting letters in' as MPs fear Liz Truss will 'crash economy'; shadow chancellor addresses Labour conference

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-pa...x-cut-12593360

Damien 26-09-2022 12:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Bank of England will make a statement today

1andrew1 26-09-2022 13:09
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36134988)
Politics live: Tories 'already putting letters in' as MPs fear Liz Truss will 'crash economy'; shadow chancellor addresses Labour conference

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-pa...x-cut-12593360
Crikey! Who do they want in her place? Johnson? Sunak?

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

The party of sound money is no longer the Conservative Party.
Quote:
Robert Peston In the year to date, the value of the pound against the dollar has fallen by more than a fifth. Against the Euro the fall is a smaller but non-trivial 7%. Against the Swiss Franc the fall is more than 14%. In other words the value of UK assets has collapsed under this government. Think how Labour would be pulverised by much of the media if this had happened under a Labour government.

The Tory reputation - perhaps it’s unique selling point - as the party of sound money is being eviscerated, and apparently as an act of deliberate policy.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-09-26/...-pounds-plunge
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1574338049844121602

denphone 26-09-2022 13:37
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134991)
Crikey! Who do they want in her place? Johnson? Sunak?

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 ----------

The party of sound money is no longer the Conservative Party.

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-09-26/...-pounds-plunge
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1574338049844121602
Once a party has lost its record for economic competence its very hard to repair that reputation.

jfman 26-09-2022 14:18
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134998)
Once a party has lost its record for economic competence its very hard to repair that reputation.
Entertainingly, you still have the mugs out there peddling the right wing trope that somehow we'd be a great country if it wasn't for their opponents talking the country down. We just lack the vision.

It turns out betting against Britain is consistently one of the safest out there on the financial markets and some of the biggest free market thinkers out there are heavily in on it.

Damien 26-09-2022 16:38
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Bank of England aren't going to do anything today so the pound has dropped again having recovered (although only back to the start of the day) on speculation they would.

Dave42 26-09-2022 16:39
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Bank of England 'will not hesitate to change interest rates as necessary' after pound's fall

https://news.sky.com/story/bank-of-e...-fall-12705776

Hugh 26-09-2022 17:40
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134974)
Have you any statistical proof that trickle down economics works because all the evidence so far says it does not happen.
http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Ho..._published.pdf

Quote:
Abstract

This paper uses data from 18 OECD countries over the last five decades to estimate the causal effect of major tax cuts for the rich on income inequality, economic growth, and un- employment. First, we use a new encompassing measure of taxes on the rich to identify instances of major reductions in tax progressivity. Then, we look at the causal effect of these episodes on economic outcomes by applying a nonparametric generalization of the difference-in-differences indicator that implements Mahalanobis matching in panel data analysis. We find that major reforms reducing taxes on the rich lead to higher income inequality as measured by the top 1% share of pre-tax national income. The effect remains stable in the medium term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth and unemployment.
Easier to read version in the Washington Post

https://wapo.st/3fpcWzG

Paul 26-09-2022 18:09
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134975)
Employers should pay more to encourage people into low paid jobs.
1. Then they would no longer be "low paid jobs".
2. The new "low paid" would then want paying more ...
Cycle back to point 1.

Plus of course, the employers would then have to charge more for their goods/services, affecting everyone, so everyone would want even more .......

Doesnt exactly work out well. :erm:

ianch99 26-09-2022 18:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36135010)
A good example of how trickle down economics works in the minds of its supporters:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/09/15.jpg

Sephiroth 26-09-2022 18:51
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
That amused me, Ian!

Hugh 26-09-2022 19:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks...rs-2022-09-26/

Quote:
LONDON, Sept 26 (Reuters) - British lenders Virgin Money and Skipton Building Society on Monday temporarily withdrew their mortgage ranges for new customers because of the volatility in sterling funding markets, according to emails sent to brokers.

"Following a number of changes in the market, we have made the decision to temporarily withdraw all our products for new customers at 8pm tonight," Virgin Money said in its email to brokers, seen by Reuters.

"We continue to monitor the situation closely and currently plan to relaunch products for new customers towards the end of the week."

Earlier on Monday, lender Halifax said it had withdrawn its mortgage products with arrangement fees.
Truss/Kwarteng/et al - "Trust the Free Markets on what we’ve done! The Markets know best!"

The Markets - devalue the pound/devalue Government Gilts/withdraw mortgage offers/react negatively to what they’ve done

Truss/Kwarteng/et al - "not that way!"…

1andrew1 26-09-2022 22:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36135017)
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks...rs-2022-09-26/

Truss/Kwarteng/et al - "Trust the Free Markets on what we’ve done! The Markets know best!"

The Markets - devalue the pound/devalue Government Gilts/withdraw mortgage offers/react negatively to what they’ve done

Truss/Kwarteng/et al - "not that way!"…
I think Ed Miliband today said something along the lines that the government believes in the market but the market doesn't believe in the government. :D

jfman 26-09-2022 22:58
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Yougov polling over the weekend put Labour on 45, Cons on 28.

It turns out borrowing to make the vast majority of people poorer while making a small minority richer isn’t a solid macroeconomic nor electoral strategy. She’s toast before the next election if she can’t turn that round. With interest rates going the way they are, it’s hard to see how.

Sephiroth 26-09-2022 23:15
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
I'm keeping quiet, waiting to see if things settle down.

1andrew1 27-09-2022 00:01
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36135025)
I'm keeping quiet, waiting to see if things settle down.
I think Johnson is facing some tough competition for worst Prime Minister ever!

denphone 27-09-2022 07:08
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36135024)
Yougov polling over the weekend put Labour on 45, Cons on 28.

It turns out borrowing to make the vast majority of people poorer while making a small minority richer isn’t a solid macroeconomic nor electoral strategy. She’s toast before the next election if she can’t turn that round. With interest rates going the way they are, it’s hard to see how.

As Rishi Sunak the former Chancellor said - "We have to be honest. Borrowing your way out of inflation isn't a plan - it's a fairy tale."

The markets have already given their ominous verdict.

Mr K 27-09-2022 07:16
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Dizzie Lizzie and her mini budget has gone down well, biggest Labour kead for 21 years...

Quote:
LAB: 45% (+3)
CON: 28% (-4)
LDEM: 9% (-1)
GRN: 7% (-)

via
@YouGov
, 23 - 25 Sep
Chgs. w/ 12 Sep
https://mobile.twitter.com/BritainEl...11096429531136

Why aren't people grateful for money being taken away from the NHS to be given to the super rich and bankers. Baffles me....

Damien 27-09-2022 07:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
The currency drop has stopped. Stabilised now although still down from where it was Friday.

Sunak must be feeling a little bit vindicated given how much he warned that the markets would react badly. He also warned it would push interest rates much higher which has happened yet but is predicted to do so.

The economy isn't going to get good growth if people's mortgages shoot up even further no matter how much tax cuts you get people above 150k. Most people are below that and their income will drop even further.

ianch99 27-09-2022 08:08
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Made me laugh :)

Tabloid headline today:

Quote:
Honey, I shrunk the quids!
and, seen on Twitter:

Quote:
Traders are referring to Truss as “Daggers” - as in Dagenham, 2 stops past Barking…
Also, apparently Sunak said this is August, wow!

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/09/16.jpg

Damien 27-09-2022 08:57
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Just to be clear that's a writer in The Spectator mocking Sunak's 'doomer' predictions.

Which has become a theme in recent years. Promise unicorns such as tax cuts and increased spending and mocking any warnings of the consequences as doomerism.

ianch99 27-09-2022 09:35
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36135054)
Just to be clear that's a writer in The Spectator mocking Sunak's 'doomer' predictions.

Which has become a theme in recent years. Promise unicorns such as tax cuts and increased spending and mocking any warnings of the consequences as doomerism.
Just to be clear, it is not a writer in The Spectator who said this, it is Sunak who apparently said this:

Quote:
In August, Sunak had warned that it would be “complacent and irresponsible" to ignore the risk of markets losing confidence in the British economy, as wagers against UK government debt sent short-term borrowing costs in the gilt market soaring.

“There will be a run on sterling. The gilts market will be in freefall. And the FTSE will tumble as global investors take fright and sell off every form of British asset. It might take only a few days, or the government might stagger through until the end of September, but before long Liz Truss and her new Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng will have been forced to call in the IMF to stabilise a collapsing economy," Sunak had said.

BenMcr 27-09-2022 09:38
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36135060)
Just to be clear, it is not a writer in The Spectator who said this, it is Sunak who apparently said this:
Yes, but the Spectator article was saying he was 'Project Fear', rather than agreeing with him.

Hugh 27-09-2022 09:49
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
1 Attachment(s)
Apparently, it’s all Labour’s fault…

(This "gentleman" is a Daily Telegraph columnist, and an IEA Fellow/Academic Advisor (the IEA is a London-based free-market thinktank, mostly funded by US Right wing/Libertarian donations).

btw, Liz Truss’s chief economic adviser is Matthew Sinclair, former chief executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, who was the chief executive of Vote Leave. Andrew Lilico was Vote Leave's chief economist…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1664267944

ianch99 27-09-2022 09:53
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36135061)
Yes, but the Spectator article was saying he was 'Project Fear', rather than agreeing with him.
Yes, forget the Spectator idiot. The point was the recent Chancellor who had an expert read on the country's finances was totally ignored when he predicted what would happen if the membership elected Truss over him.

jfman 27-09-2022 09:56
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36135062)
Apparently, it’s all Labour’s fault…

(This "gentleman" is a Daily Telegraph columnist, and an IEA Fellow/Academic Advisor (the IEA is a London-based free-market thinktank, mostly funded by US Right wing/Libertarian donations).
:rofl:

GrimUpNorth 27-09-2022 09:56
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
We know it's bad when even the staunchest government supporters amongst us are MIA, could it be because even in their most vivid dreams they never thought a UK government would be able to destroy UK plc so successfully, and it's not even a loony lefty labour one that's destroying it! It's almost as if the Conservatives have had enough of power and don't want it again for many many years so are making sure they won't even get a sniff of it again.

I bet Jezza is taking notes and learning where his (what now appear to be quite restrained and sensible) spending plans went so wrong and cost him the last election.

Sephiroth 27-09-2022 10:18
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 

Staunch Conservative & staunch government supporters are not always the same thing.

Hence I am not MIA and I need to see how this plays out on the short term.


jfman 27-09-2022 10:48
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36135065)
We know it's bad when even the staunchest government supporters amongst us are MIA, could it be because even in their most vivid dreams they never thought a UK government would be able to destroy UK plc so successfully, and it's not even a loony lefty labour one that's destroying it! It's almost as if the Conservatives have had enough of power and don't want it again for many many years so are making sure they won't even get a sniff of it again.

I bet Jezza is taking notes and learning where his (what now appear to be quite restrained and sensible) spending plans went so wrong and cost him the last election.
Ultimately the underbelly of the Conservative support is people who believed that if the drawbridge was pulled up they’d be on the right side of it.

As it turns out you can be on safely above average earnings, have mortgaged yourself in an average house, and between inflation, energy and spiralling interest rates hundreds of pounds a month worse off.

That wasn’t the deal.

1andrew1 27-09-2022 11:42
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Virgin Atlantic chief urges UK to reverse planned tax cuts to bolster pound

Virgin Atlantic’s chief executive has called on the UK government to “consider reversing” some policies announced last week to bolster the pound and assuage worries over the economy.

Shai Weiss on Tuesday said he was concerned about the direction of Liz Truss’s government since it took office less than a month ago.

“Truss said she would take difficult decisions upon entering into the role,” he said. “Maybe they need to take more difficult decisions to reverse the decline of the pound and ensure this country is not left with . . . perceived weakness in international markets.”

“Sometimes all of us in this room should be humble enough to say that if I said something that is not working, maybe I should reverse course, that is not a bad thing to do,” he added.
https://www.ft.com/content/9e973795-...5-d94c13753bb6

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36135069)

Staunch Conservative & staunch government supporters are not always the same thing.

Hence I am not MIA and I need to see how this plays out on the short term.

Now is the time for all true Conservatives to step off the sidelines and ask for the unfunded tax cuts to be postponed.

Mad Max 27-09-2022 15:25
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Just vote Labour and everything will be fine.:p:

BenMcr 27-09-2022 15:29
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36135091)
Just vote Labour and everything will be fine.:p:
Apparently potentially voting Labour is a reason the markets didn't like the mini-not-budget

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/st...33068626579463

Quote:
I still think the market reaction was mainly to what the mini-Budget said about the BoE decision, but I've thought of a potential secondary factor. The market may have felt that the mini-Budget implied a Labour victory in 2024/25 is more likely than they had previously thought.+

1andrew1 27-09-2022 15:32
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36135092)
Apparently potentially voting Labour is a reason the markets didn't like the mini-not-budget

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/st...33068626579463
I've seen some straw-clutching in my time, but that takes the proverbial. :D

BenMcr 27-09-2022 15:35
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36135093)
I've seen some straw-clutching in my time, but that takes the proverbial. :D
As someone commented on that, it's difficult after 12 years to blame the last Labour government for current problems, so it's now time to apparently blame the next one instead :D

ianch99 27-09-2022 16:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Paul Donovan, the chief economist of UBS Global Wealth Management:

Quote:
Advanced economy bond yields are not supposed to soar the way UK gilt yields rose,” he told clients. “This also reminds investors that modern politics produces parties that are more extreme than either the voter or the investor consensus. Investors seem inclined to regard the UK Conservative Party as a doomsday cult
Harsh but fair ...

Damien 27-09-2022 16:52
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/stat...84254361337869

Quote:
Money markets now pricing in a 1.5 per cent rise in interest rates at or before the next @Bankofengland meeting in Nov.
Expectations back up well above 6% next year.

Hugh 27-09-2022 17:26
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss...ellor-12706352

Quote:
Liz Truss had to be convinced to issue a government statement yesterday to calm the markets, Sky News understands.

Faced with market turmoil, spiking borrowing costs, and the drop in the value of the pound in the foreign exchange markets, the prime minister's initial instinct was to stand firm and say little or nothing, unwilling to look like she might be shifting position.

UK policy condemned as 'utterly irresponsible' - pound latest

However, after a meeting with Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng yesterday, Ms Truss agreed the Treasury would issue a statement promising further details on 23 November on how the government would ensure borrowing would not spiral out of control.

In effect this gives the government eight weeks to come up with a plan to stabilise the markets - likely to involve spending cuts in Whitehall, public services, investment and probably welfare.
Thought the last paragraph in the article was interesting…

Quote:
Some in government are understood to see the market assault on the pound and government debt as a plot by the left, something which has surprised city traders.

Paul 27-09-2022 18:45
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36135091)
Just vote Labour and everything will be fine.:p:
Its sad that such a statement could almost be true.
You should know something is wrong when a previously unelectable opposition has policies that look almost reasonable, and your own look increasingly nutty and bad. Sadly, I doubt Truss can see this though.

IMO, I would not say "everything will be fine", but everything may look better.

Pierre 27-09-2022 22:05
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36135091)
Just vote Labour and everything will be fine.:p:
Labour find themselves in this seemingly unassailable position through nothing they have done. They can just sit back and not be Tories and win, without offering any real coherent proposition.

It’ll be either interesting or terrifying to see where we are in 2 years.

After the ERM collapse and super high interest rates the Major government managed to turn it all around, but it wasn’t enough to save them and Blair rode on that economic chariot for years before he and Brown pissed it all away.

Sephiroth 27-09-2022 22:15
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36135160)
Labour find themselves in this seemingly unassailable position through nothing they have done. They can just sit back and not be Tories and win, without offering any real coherent proposition.

It’ll be either interesting or terrifying to see where we are in 2 years.

After the ERM collapse and super high interest rates the Major government managed to turn it all around, but it wasn’t enough to save them and Blair rode on that economic chariot for years before he and Brown pissed it all away.


It was the Neil Hamilton "brown envelope" that did the Tories in.

1andrew1 27-09-2022 22:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36135160)
Labour find themselves in this seemingly unassailable position through nothing they have done. They can just sit back and not be Tories and win, without offering any real coherent proposition.

It’ll be either interesting or terrifying to see where we are in 2 years.

After the ERM collapse and super high interest rates the Major government managed to turn it all around, but it wasn’t enough to save them and Blair rode on that economic chariot for years before he and Brown pissed it all away.
I don't think they pissed it away as such - the Global Financial Crisis hit the economy hard and financial regulation was too light.

---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36135164)


It was the Neil Hamilton "brown envelope" that did the Tories in.
Oh yes, the famous cash-for-questions debacle.

denphone 28-09-2022 06:05
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36135091)
Just vote Labour and everything will be fine.:p:

Whoever people vote for l think many would like a fairer society then the very unequal society that they think is very prevalent in this country currently.

jfman 28-09-2022 09:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://www.theguardian.com/business...086841b84c373e

(The 07.49 update)

Analysts warning house prices could drop 10-15% next year. They’ll get absolutely savaged at the election if that happens.

1andrew1 28-09-2022 09:33
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
This shocked me!
Quote:
UK's cost of borrowing on international markets jumps above rates paid by Greece and Italy

The former Bank of England deputy governor Charlie Bean said it was significant that bond markets now considered Greece and Italy to be safer bets after several days of panic selling.

According to The Guardian, the five-year bond rose to 4.3%, which compares with Italy’s 3.87% and the 4% rate of interest paid by Greece.

France maintained a rate of 2.3% while German five-year bonds traded with an interest rate, referred to as the yield, at 2.03%.

Sir Charlie, who is also a professor at the London School of Economics, said: "When you have a falling currency and rising sovereign bond yields, this is exactly what we see with a typical emerging market sovereign debt crisis.

"That's not to say we're becoming an emerging market, but the fact is we have gone from looking like the US or Germany in terms of bond rates to now being closer to Italy and Greece."
https://news.sky.com/story/pound-slu...s-imf-12615118


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