Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Octopus is not just an energy company, and so has additional resources available from other parts of the group. In specialising in renewable energy it has taken away the availability of renewable energy from others. It is not subject to the real world of energy generation using gas, which is the source of the problems. Germany has learnt that you can't rely on renewable energy. That is a part of why their increased demand pushed up gas prices.
If Octopus didn't rely on renewables, then they also would be in trouble.
No valid comparison can be made.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm worried, we've agreed again :)

As for Water, England's privatised water firms have paid out £57bn in dividends since 1991, just under half what they spent on the infrastructure. They also borrow and use the debt to finance dividends. A disgrace ..

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

If energy was nationalised, its highly unlikely there would be a price cap. Millions of people would be paying prices reflective of the wholesale costs right now.

What we're currently seeing is akin to an extension of the welfare system paid for by the private sector. Energy suppliers are forced by government to subsidise customer bills by having to sell at a loss. It is not sustainable in the long term unless the price cap is brought into line with wholesale costs, which then inflicts more pain on customers. If that doesn't happen, I'd imagine we'll see some of the 'big six' (or is it five now?) reviewing their operations in the UK.

Successive governments have failed on energy policy. The UK needs to become more self-sufficient. The £1.7bn put aside for Bulb could have been spent on helping households reduce their reliance on fossil fuels.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well with the weather today we should be absolutely flying with the energy produced by wind turbines . . unless of course the wind is too strong and they shut down.

Nothing to do with gas companies, sorry, just thought it worth a mention as I watched next doors caravan trying to mount his garden shed.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So a few companies bought stocks in advance. That was presumably based on their existing customer base.

So will their stocks dwindle quickly now that they have been taking on customers from the failed companies? And what happens when they have to buy new stock at the massively inflated prices? Will the April change of the cap level reflect wholesale prices?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

According to my supplier 100% of my electricity is from renewables, we are surrounded by wind farms yet the price keeps going up,how much has a cubic metre of wind gone up in price :shrug:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Where people invest in a company, they expect to get their money back. The invested money is NOT a gift, never to be returned.:rolleyes:
Debt is used to obtain large amounts in advance. Just as it is for households with mortgages and the like.
The figures are misleading because the listed companies can or did, include other areas, eg United Utilities once included electricity, so dividends will have also been for that.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

. . . and football clubs.
I think they call it 'sustainable debt' or some such thing, which seems to work fine until the 'incoming' reaches a level below the 'outgoing' . . . or the 'investors' decide they want to put their money into something else instead, please can we have it back . . and I think we've all, over the years, seen the consequences of that in football.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Thats an interesting bit of spin that they all tell you, its not really true.
The company you pay has zero control over where the electricity you are actually using comes from, thats controlled by the National Grid.

Each house is not on a separate supply thats controlled by Bulb/Octopus/Whoever.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yep, makes me laugh . . as does the Google homepage, the bit at the bottom that says "Carbon neutral since 2007"

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

This site is quite informative on where the UKs electricity is coming from ;

https://grid.iamkate.com/

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yes, if this company was trading in a free market but it is not.

As for the Thames Water spin:

Water companies turn back on pledge to not pay dividends/

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Fumdamentally flawed assumptions. Octopus is a dual fuel company so buys and sells electricity and gas like its peers, so faces the same challenges. It's been better at Bulb by doing what competitors like Shell Energy have done - buying energy in advance to match customers' tariffs.
Octopus has a small sideline in renting electric vehicles, Bulb has a small sideline in billing software. Neither is significant.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Octopus Energy is part of the Octopus Group. Their electricity is sourced from renewables, not gas generated.
Where did Shell Energy get the money from, if not the Shell Group? Easy if you have rich "parents".

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Pure Planet were 24% owned by BP but it didn't help them.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The gas that Octopus supplies its customers is not renewable! As I explained before, it's a dual fuel supplier like its peers. Its majority shareholder (Octopus Group) has not had to bail it out.

Here's some useful information from the Shell Energy Retail site:

So, higher gas prices also impact renewable electricty prices.

https://www.shellenergy.co.uk/blog/p...s-are-changing

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Octopus finally sorted my Avro Balance and Bill just need my first bill off them now. 2 Months I guess not to bad but I think Avro were being quite dodgy taking money out for other companies

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'd love to hear the explanation for that.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's a seller's market? :dunce:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Another energy firm collapses - Zog Energy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59488818

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

To be fair, they didn’t go bust, they just fell foul of the little-known Stupid Names Act (2016).

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Kneel before Zog sorry Zod

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Bugger that's both my electricity (symbio) and gas(zog) gone bust. Zog were a nice uncomplicated company as well as cheap, you got a reply within an hour of emailing them. No online account, or any meter readers bothering you, Never any mention of a smart meter. Just took your word and an accurate bill each month. Stayed with them longer than anyone else.

No worries, being a cheapskate I've been down this road many times !

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

then this is really going to hurt hahahaha

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well I'm happy in the knowledge I've being paying less over the years than I needed to ;)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Are you collecting obscure energy providers like stamps, Mr K? :D

On a more serious note, I do feel sorry for those on pensions and universal credit next year who are not on fixed rates, typically customers of defunct providers. Wholesale gas prices have gone up by some 450% in the last year and that will make its mark felt in April's variable rates. Let's hope it's a mild winter and mild 2022.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I was paying a really low rate till Avro collapsed too

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I guess you can afford the personal touch when you have next to no customers. Unfortunately it also means you can’t afford to buy your own product when times are tough.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Haha, don't mention Avro. I manage my sons energy account for him , guess who I had him with?
That's 3 bust companies I'm dealing with now !

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

hahahahaha soon there will only be 7 + El Govs Bulb hahaha

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

How much of a certainty is a rise in the price cap in April?
Like the companies that forward plan their energy purchasing can’t Joe Public do the same?
Send in inflated meter readings and hedge the increase?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Now that would be illegal, but tempting ! Not possible for anyone with one of those silly smart meters though.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Good idea but you're guaranteed to have a meter reader knocking on your door for the first time in years if you go for silly numbers :shocked:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Would it actually be illegal ?
Most companies are taking your money in advance anyway.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yeah, there’s a database with historical readings from your meter in it, which is what all the suppliers use to estimate your usage if you don’t send readings in. If you veer too far from what’s expected they will investigate. And deliberately giving false readings is illegal.

The only way you could conceivably make use of the freedom you get from self-reading a dumb meter is if, say, your central heating broke down for an extended period and you ran a lot of electric heaters in your house for a few weeks while waiting for it to be fixed. To avoid your supplier arguing that your recent usage requires an increased direct debit or a payment to clear a debit account balance you might under-read by a modest amount for a period of time to smooth out the excess. Which would still be completely illegal, just less likely to be picked up …

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'll be doing this for nearly 2 months by the time my heating gets fixed on 21st Dec.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

My Orbit account was taken over by Scottish Power yesterday.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Concerning and hope it's not as bad as this.
https://swiftheadline.com/uk-househo...o-2000-a-year/

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Towards £2,000-a-year ? I already passed it.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Gosh, that's about £165pm. But obviously all depends on the house size and if you're heating it during the day or not.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm just about there as well.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

We pay around £1250 pa - 4 bed detached, only SWMBO & I in it, but both at home all day.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think I'll be paying close to £400 a year thanks to the price rises

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Why so cheap, or do you mean £400 a year more?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm assume he must be paying £800pa/£67pm and anticipates a 50% increase?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

£400 in total, just don't use much, I begrudge them that tbh

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

You assumed incorrectly

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I was paying about £900 with my small cheapo suppliers. Now they've both gone bust, reckon it'll be about a 50% increase. Worth it though, i've saved a ton over the years. Will switch again to whoever is cheapest/solvent after the April increases take affect.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Crikey, are you using candles :erm:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Wood and some warm coats?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

£84 a month , and in credit by a couple of £100 . Good insulation, open fires . AND lots of jumpers !!!!!

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I'm currently £79 a month in a 2 bed property, but my Bulb account says I used £100 last month so my credit will be used up very soon.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

No, although I'm not 60 I live in an over 60's block so the heating is on in the hallways, never have my heating on and don't even know if it works tbh, sometimes I go weeks workout watching tv, my laundry is sent out, I eat out most of the time plus I work 50- 70 hours a week, that's why I begrudge them the £400 a year!

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

28th November, Orbit ceased trading.

12th December, sent to Scottish Power.

But an email from them today says they will only start taking DD payments from 9th January "so keep the money ready for the payments that will be missed".

The cynic in me thinks this is a way for them to hike the DD monthly payments.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Octopus let me choose how much I put on the DD. Plus seeing as you will be going on a price cap tariff ( unless ya crazy and gone on a fixed) you do not need to pay by DD anyway and just pay when you get the bill

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Most of the power companies I’ve been with allow one off payments on your account in their websites.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Scotttish Power are in hot water around debt collection atm.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Wholesale costs hit another record this week of 450p a therm, which experts predict could take average annual bills to about £2,000 next year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59760331

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I know some favour light-touch regulation but I think Ofgem has been too light touch in the energy market. As energy customers we're all set to pick up the anticipated £2.8bn bill sooner or later.
https://www.ft.com/content/55fcab59-...2-a3ec7c7b5f95

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Great, free-to-read article here on the mess in the energy market. The final paragraphs in particular.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/spot...?ocid=msedgntp

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Ofgem brought in the cap to stop utility companies making excess profits, at the expense of users. Now it's the producers that make the profits, at the expense of users.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I don't think those who still have good old fashioned fire places will mind burning a tree or two for heat . . and if they have a 'back boiler' it's a bonus ;)

Germany decommissioning their Nuclear Power Stations earlier than intended will have a knock on effect for gas demand too I guess . . . lucky for Russia eh :rolleyes:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Those oligarchs just get richer eh?

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well if we'd got on with fracking and ignored the protesters then we might have a secure gas supply at a decent price. Environmentalists. :rolleyes:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

This ^ ^

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The way things are going we will have a renationalisation by a conservative government well until boris the buffoon can line up a few mates to sell it cheaply to.

Re: Energy companies collapse crazy Dr rise
 

Ok so have used less and less energy over the last 3 years , solar panels etc. Have a fixed price taliff until may 23 . My account is in credit by a couple of £100 . Yet my supplier have yet again put up my DD . This is to protect my from the shock of the pending price increase ! At the same time refunding my credit balance . And we think virgin have lost the plot :D just as well there isn't much interest on accounts these days.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

What would you do in my situation?

Currently on dual fuel and pay £114 per month fixed rate.

It comes to an end at end of the month.


Looking at other 1 year fixed rates is nearly double what I'm currently paying.


Should I go variable for time being? Though I hear that is hiking up prices too?


thankyou.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

As I understand it at the moment the advice is to go on the capped standard tariff but review the situation when the cap is raised in April.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Yeah I guess that works. And also means I'm not tied into anything.


Would be good if there was a huge shakeup and costs went down again but I cant see that happening any time soon.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The advice from Money Saving Expert includes:

See the full article here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/latesttip/#energy

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Same situation here, we're going variable and waiting to see what happens.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Just a heads-up that the cap which takes effect from April will be announced next month, so you won't have long to wait.

The Ofgem site doesn't give a date. Last year's was published on 5th February so keep an eye out around then.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

When I sign for mine it was just under the cap , would imagine that any new offer will be around the new cap . Who knows :confused:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Labour's Rache Reeves contributes some ideas to helping consumers.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...?ocid=msedgntp

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I think it's a bit silly to hit North Sea gas companies with a 'windfall' tax when around 50% of gas in the UK is imported.

There again I'm not a politician and know nothing about how these things work.

What I have seen over the past 25 years though, is a massive change in automatic machinery doing the work that used to be done by hand, which has driven up the demand and consumption of energy.

Rising population, and housing for them, also drives up demand which, IMO, is more than we can provide by solar and wind power.

Just the price of progress I guess :shrug:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Such as? I'm struggling to think of any examples in the past 25 years.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

:DFrom that reply, I'm going to assume your whole working life has been spent at an office desk ;)


edit:
Back in a couple of hours, off to watch live football stream . . . courtesy of energy dependent modem, router, computers instead of watching the game live

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

From that reply I'm going to assume you can't think of any examples either ;)

Industrial use of energy in the UK has almost halved in the past 25 years. Transport is the only sector where it has grown significantly. See bottom of first page here.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...he_UK_2021.pdf

Which will probably use a lot less energy than you would driving to the game.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

VAT is only 5%, so cutting it isnt going to make a huge difference.

How is Taxing North Seas Oil/Gas going to save me £200 a year :confused:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The tax would be used to pay the 5% VAT cut and expand who qualifies for state assistance with their energy bills.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So somewhat misleading then.
The VAT cut is already mentioned, I seriously doubt the "qualifies for state assistance" will include me.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Well it looks like you and your stats know better than someone who worked in a factory for almost 25 years and actually saw the changes happening, although maybe I was simply in the one factory that changed from manual workforce to automated machines out of the thousands out there.

My car runs on petrol, not gas/electric delivered through the national grid . . . although that's all changing isn't it with electric cars & the wonderful E Scooter craze :p:

. . poor game but 4-0 and into the next round

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The factories that mechanised remained. A lot of the rest probably closed down or downsized.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It will make a huge difference to the Govt. 5% of a £1000 bill is £50, 5% of a £2000 bill is £100. Potentially an extra £50 off 28million households. =£1.4 billion extra tax. Nice. Plus of course the NI increases and freezing personal tax allowances. As long as they spend it wisely like good socialists..
(Didn't they promise to get rid of VAT on fuel as part of leaving the EU ? Yet another lie...)

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Thank you for the maths lesson. :dozey:
You knew when posting, of course, that I was referring to households, not the govt coffers. :sleep:

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59957716

British Gas owner warns energy crisis to last two years

Germany are taking their Nuclear Power offline earlier than first stated, which won't help. Seems the push for zero emissions may lead to doubling the cost (if you can afford it) for what's left.

I wish we still had an open fire . . I could burn all the daily junk mail, cardboard boxes etc :D

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So essentially we are going to all become poor....well most of the middle of the road people like me.
If you are wealthy then you've got nothing to worry about. You can afford the bills.
If you are poor then you get government incentives or pay very little if not get it free.


If like me you are not super wealthy but not poor then we get no help at all and are going to become the poor generation. Many jobs have no pay rises or if they do then it doesnt reflect inflation.
We are doomed.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

It's always the middle that get it worst as we are the biggest sector. And often it's the lower end of the middle that really get it. Too "rich" to qualify for help, too "poor" to afford expensive changes.


But these figures are all relative. At one time owning a microwave put you in the top 10% of wealthiest world wide.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

The saving grace for some in this situation will be the reduction in travel costs by working at home.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

But if you work from home you will need the heating on, if your working from the office your home heating would be off in many cases.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Absolutely true for some of the year plus the oven, lighting, electricity, etc.
But for most people, I think these costs will be outweighed substantially by their previous commuting costs.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

So as a key worker I still have to go to work, costs go up, pay rises are basically non-existant, and I now have my energy bills almost doubling.


I'm very tempted to install a log burner to help keep heating costs down.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

I have a big iron stove in the living room, the problem with logs is they aint cheap anymore and they burn quickly, I use solid fuel, lasts longer.
but if you can get freed logs go for it.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Not much, the fixed costs (like insurance) are still the same.

On the other hand, the home "office" has to be heated, and uses more electricity for lighting, computers, network etc.
Plus some people will have to upgrade their home insurance to cover WFH.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

In response to the energy crisis Ovo Energy is to cut a quarter of it's workforce.
http://news.sky.com/story/ovo-respon...force-12514601

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

May yet become my supplier according to that ..

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Mine aswell , also Ovo plans to reshore all customer facing jobs.

Re: Energy companies collapse
 

Why unfortunately?