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mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 11:49
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36039346)
Was savilles plaque grade 2 listed?

A grade 2 listing lessens the acts?

Rexz 11-06-2020 12:03
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039337)
Nobody says it will fix everything, it does show however that we're more aware as a society of the wrong doings that occurred.

No one is asking people to feel ashamed, we're being asked to think and to teach ourselves about the difficulties that fellow members of the human race face on a daily basis.[COLOR="Silver"]
You really think explaining to someone how we became who we are from the slave trade will receive admiration or settle the race issue? This will never be a dropped issue, regardless of how many statues you pull down/deface or history you try to 'explain'.

The whole BLM movement in itself was inherently racist. To fight inequality it should benefit all races. Empowering one race does not bring about equality, it drives a huge wedge right through the middle. I've seen the argument "but today we are talking about black lives..."... the last time I looked, there was more than just black people in this world who are still currently oppressed or persecuted because of their race, religion or culture.

I can already see signs of racism being acceptable if its against white people.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."

Carth 11-06-2020 12:10
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
How about all land 'owned' by the native American Indians being handed back to them, along with all the mineral rights and profits made since they were 'stolen' from them.
Burn all the books and films and destroy all statues proclaiming 'how the west was won' against those ignorant savages that stood in the way of the great expansion of civilisation

Eradicate all mention of the Middle East Crusades, burn the flags and knock down the castles

I'm pretty sure Shakespeare won't come out of it too well either.

I'm on a roll here, I think I'm starting to get into this lark, good fun isn't it

*go me, the rebellious activist for truth and consequences* :D

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 12:12
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexz (Post 36039352)
You really think explaining to someone how we became who we are from the slave trade will receive admiration or settle the race issue? This will never be a dropped issue, regardless of how many statues you pull down/deface or history you try to 'explain'.

The whole BLM movement in itself was inherently racist. To fight inequality it should benefit all races. Empowering one race does not bring about equality, it drives a huge wedge right through the middle. I've seen the argument "but today we are talking about black lives..."... the last time I looked, there was more than just black people in this world who are still currently oppressed or persecuted because of their race, religion or culture.

I can already see signs of racism being acceptable if its against white people.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."

Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?

Carth 11-06-2020 12:16
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039354)
<snip>. . however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Funny that, cos most of what I'm seeing are 'famous' people and those in official positions bowing down and touching their forelocks in case they get called racist for not complying :rolleyes:

Rexz 11-06-2020 12:23
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039354)
Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?
That house on fire analogy has been used too much. You could turn it around easily and say, does a fire brigade try to stop a bush fire, or does it go further ahead to prevent it spreading somewhere else. Writing an analogy to try to explain a situation like this is a lazy way of trying to win an argument.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 12:38
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexz (Post 36039359)
That house on fire analogy has been used too much. You could turn it around easily and say, does a fire brigade try to stop a bush fire, or does it go further ahead to prevent it spreading somewhere else. Writing an analogy to try to explain a situation like this is a lazy way of trying to win an argument.

Not really, you may not like the analogy and that of course is entirely your prerogative. However that's the analogy that's been used by the black staff that report into me.

Calling anyone lazy for trying to explain their issues using an analogy because it doesn't suit your narrative is poor form.

TheDaddy 11-06-2020 12:46
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039350)
A grade 2 listing lessens the acts?
The act of vandalism, no it increases the impact of it

1andrew1 11-06-2020 12:48
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039349)
George VI - the last Emperor of India. To be removed from all past coins, all portraits to be made face to the wall; all newsreel with that racist Churchill to be purged.
Relocating a statue of a slave-trader to a museum is not the same as purging newsreel of a Prime Minister.

Carth 11-06-2020 12:53
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36039364)
Relocating a statue of a slave-trader to a museum is not the same as purging newsreel of a Prime Minister.
oh yes it is . .


ooops sorry, wrong pantomime ;)

Rexz 11-06-2020 12:55
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039362)
Not really, you may not like the analogy and that of course is entirely your prerogative. However that's the analogy that's been used by the black staff that report into me.

Calling anyone lazy for trying to explain their issues using an analogy because it doesn't suit your narrative is poor form.
Well it is lazy, because you have written it to express your view. It is written in a way that shuts down argument against it, but with just a few change of words I have re-written it to support my argument. It bears no contextual input into any argument.
Also 10/10 marks for using race to bolster that analogy. As if a black person using the house burning analogy somehow makes it more valid.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 14:13
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexz (Post 36039366)
Well it is lazy, because you have written it to express your view. It is written in a way that shuts down argument against it, but with just a few change of words I have re-written it to support my argument. It bears no contextual input into any argument.
Also 10/10 marks for using race to bolster that analogy. As if a black person using the house burning analogy somehow makes it more valid.

I'm not using race to bolster anything, merely, I've taken and expressed the view that's been expressed to me by my staff, because their words are more valid then mine at this time.

To you it may have no relevance but to others that are directly impacted by it, it does.


What exactly are you so fearful of?

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36039363)
The act of vandalism, no it increases the impact of it

The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.

TheDaddy 11-06-2020 14:35
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039371)
The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.
Really 18,000 peoples deaths is balanced out by the smashing of a statue, I think you've overdosed on self righteousness. The smashing of the statue doesn't some how wipe the slate clean or erase what happened, if you and the mob really want to start trying to make a dent in that balance sheet why not hold a whip round till you reach 30 million quid, the figure he roughly left to Bristol and use the money to fight modrrn day slavery.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 15:24
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36039377)
Really 18,000 peoples deaths is balanced out by the smashing of a statue, I think you've overdosed on self righteousness. The smashing of the statue doesn't some how wipe the slate clean or erase what happened, if you and the mob really want to start trying to make a dent in that balance sheet why not hold a whip round till you reach 30 million quid, the figure he roughly left to Bristol and use the money to fight modrrn day slavery.

Show me where i said i want to smash the statue?

Accusing me of self righteousness when you're more concerned that a statue is damaged and that its grade 2 listing makes it more important than peoples suffering is just rank hypocrisy.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 15:31
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039354)
Again, no one says it will settle the issue, but it's a beginning. BTW this is not something we need to explain, this is something we need to educate ourselves on. (I mean this collectively, not as individuals in CF)

BLM perhaps contains a small quantity of racism against whites however demonstrations across the world have been inclusive and tolerant to the most degree.

Of course, there will be minority in any movement that try to twist the agenda by radicalisation or by militarisation. But that doesn't mean to say we should allow that to taint our view.

Use the house on fire analogy. Does the fire brigade go to the house thats burning first or three doors up to make sure they're OK?
Seems like an anarchistic majority to me. No self respecting person can righteously extend George FGloyd's murder into a movement in the UK that demand we eradicate parts of our history.


---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039371)
I'm not using race to bolster anything, merely, I've taken and expressed the view that's been expressed to me by my staff, because their words are more valid then mine at this time.

To you it may have no relevance but to others that are directly impacted by it, it does.


What exactly are you so fearful of?

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------




The transport of 84,000 slaves and subsequent death of 18,000 (ish) would balance that out then.
Er, remind me - when was this?

Hugh 11-06-2020 15:47
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039355)
Funny that, cos most of what I'm seeing are 'famous' people and those in official positions bowing down and touching their forelocks in case they get called racist for not complying :rolleyes:
That might be your perception, rather that actuality... ;)

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039387)
Seems like an anarchistic majority to me. No self respecting person can righteously extend George FGloyd's murder into a movement in the UK that demand we eradicate parts of our history.


---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------


Er, remind me - when was this?
Again, not "eradication", its expansion - showing the fuller picture, not just the PR bit...

Damien 11-06-2020 15:54
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039387)
No self respecting person can righteously extend George FGloyd's murder into a movement in the UK that demand we eradicate parts of our history.
Placing it in a museum isn't eradicating history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexz (Post 36039352)
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."
Blackface is different because of the particular historical connotation it brings up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show

Quote:
The minstrel show, or minstrelsy, was an American form of entertainment developed in the early 19th century. Each show consisted of comic skits, variety acts, dancing, and music performances that depicted people specifically of African descent. The shows were performed by white people in make-up or blackface for the purpose of playing the role of black people. There were also some African-American performers and all-black minstrel groups that formed and toured under the direction of white people. Minstrel shows lampooned black people as dim-witted, lazy, buffoonish, superstitious, and happy-go-lucky.
In the U.K the history is slightly different complicating the issue but that historical connection from America remains powerful, especially since they were doing the above during a time of slavery.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 16:00
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36039393)
That might be your perception, rather that actuality... ;)

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Again, not "eradication", its expansion - showing the fuller picture, not just the PR bit...
Oh dear. An apologist for what's going on.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039395)
Placing it in a museum isn't eradicating history.



Blackface is different because of the particular historical connotation it brings up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show



In the U.K the history is slightly different complicating the issue but that historical connection from America remains powerful, especially since they were doing the above during a time of slavery.
Chucking it in the estuary is eradicating history - or at least an attempt.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 16:21
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039387)
Seems like an anarchistic majority to me. No self respecting person can righteously extend George FGloyd's murder into a movement in the UK that demand we eradicate parts of our history.


---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------


Er, remind me - when was this?


1) An anarchistic majority? Please provide some evidence to back that up.
2) Does the passing of time lessen the severity? in a 100yrs time would you look back and say 'oh Fred & Rose, bless them' ?

Its funny really that some people who seem to think that this is somehow acceptable because 'thats just the way it was' are the first to decry other cultures practices that they don't agree with.

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039398)
Oh dear. An apologist for what's going on.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------



Chucking it in the estuary is eradicating history - or at least an attempt.

No, it's eradicating the statue. The telling of history is not dependent on the statues existence. The statue was a celebration of a man who really shouldn't be celebrated.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 16:35
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039406)
1) An anarchistic majority? Please provide some evidence to back that up.
2) Does the passing of time lessen the severity? in a 100yrs time would you look back and say 'oh Fred & Rose, bless them' ?

Its funny really that some people who seem to think that this is somehow acceptable because 'thats just the way it was' are the first to decry other cultures practices that they don't agree with.

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------




No, it's eradicating the statue. The telling of history is not dependent on the statues existence. The statue was a celebration of a man who really shouldn't be celebrated.

Quote:
An anarchistic majority? Please provide some evidence to back that up.
I don't need to and nor should you need to ask. The TV screen backs me up.

Quote:
Does the passing of time lessen the severity? in a 100yrs time would you look back and say 'oh Fred & Rose, bless them' ?
Now you're being silly. An American is murdered by US police. Suddenly a 200 (not 100) years of faded past, that concerns nobody in the UK, becomes the central point of your argument. Shouldn't your central point focus on what some of our police might be doing wrong rather than this slavery tosh?

By your logic, we should should be all over Germany for what happened 80 years ago.

And don't forget, it was the past slavery etc that resulted to some extent on the immigration to the UK that led to the births in the UK of the current generation who might otherwise, one way or another, still be in Africa.

Think.

Quote:
No, it's eradicating the statue. The telling of history is not dependent on the statues existence. The statue was a celebration of a man who really shouldn't be celebrated.
We can agree there. It may be that the anarchy on the streets that BLM has brought to parts of the UK will result in institutionalised change to memorials of that type. But these anarchists want Churchill branded as a racist. It goes too far and you should not be justifying their actions.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 16:45
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039411)



I don't need to and nor should you need to ask. The TV screen backs me up.



Now you're being silly. An American is murdered by US police. Suddenly a 200 (not 100) years of faded past, that concerns nobody in the UK, becomes the central point of your argument. Shouldn't your central point focus on what some of our police might be doing wrong rather than this slavery tosh?

By your logic, we should should be all over Germany for what happened 80 years ago.

And don't forget, it was the past slavery etc that resulted to some extent on the immigration to the UK that led to the births in the UK of the current generation who might otherwise, one way or another, still be in Africa.

Think.



We can agree there. It may be that the anarchy on the streets that BLM has brought to parts of the UK will result in institutionalised change to memorials of that type. But these anarchists want Churchill branded as a racist. It goes too far and you should not be justifying their actions.
The TV screen backs you up ONLY if it shows ALL coverage of every event. It's not doing so, so it doesn't

The past perhaps is faded to you but not to others. My central point can vary wherever i want it to take me, if the discussion moves to that of statues being pulled down being acceptable then i can debate that also. I'm multi faceted, just as you are ;)

Here's the scoop, Churchill had proclivity to make racist statements. Of that there's no argument. If that's usurped by his actions against Nazi Germany ? Personally I would say it was, BUT i can listen to the viewpoint of those who would suggest it weighs differently.

Again, remind me anywhere where i have justified their actions?

I'll ask you the same as I have asked others. What are you fearful of?

Perhaps unlike others you'll answer.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 17:10
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039413)
The TV screen backs you up ONLY if it shows ALL coverage of every event. It's not doing so, so it doesn't

The past perhaps is faded to you but not to others. My central point can vary wherever i want it to take me, if the discussion moves to that of statues being pulled down being acceptable then i can debate that also. I'm multi faceted, just as you are ;)

Here's the scoop, Churchill had proclivity to make racist statements. Of that there's no argument. If that's usurped by his actions against Nazi Germany ? Personally I would say it was, BUT i can listen to the viewpoint of those who would suggest it weighs differently.

Again, remind me anywhere where i have justified their actions?

I'll ask you the same as I have asked others. What are you fearful of?

Perhaps unlike others you'll answer.
I'm fearful of woke people dominating what we can say and what we can't; woke people deciding which statues can stand, who is racist and whom we are allowed to parody.

As to Churchill, remember people are influenced by their environment of the time. His pronouncements of 120 years ago are insignificant when compared with his effort in winning the war against Germany. These anarchists should not be dragging his name into the mud.

1andrew1 11-06-2020 17:16
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
I see Nigel Farage has left LBC with immediate effect. His comparison of Black Lives Matter to the Taliban probably didn't help his cause.
Link here

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 17:25
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36039421)
I see Nigel Farage has left LBC with immediate effect. His comparison of Black Lives Matter to the Taliban probably didn't help his cause.
Link here
Damn. He should have kept that to himself. I really enjoyed his approach to radio phone ins.

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 17:29
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039419)
I'm fearful of woke people dominating what we can say and what we can't; woke people deciding which statues can stand, who is racist and whom we are allowed to parody.

As to Churchill, remember people are influenced by their environment of the time. His pronouncements of 120 years ago are insignificant when compared with his effort in winning the war against Germany. These anarchists should not be dragging his name into the mud.

First of all thank you for answering. The whole point of this is honest and painful discussion.

To take your comments

1) Who is saying what you can and can't say, I don't remember at any point BLM saying that you were only allowed to say certain things.

2) Why shouldn't 'woke' people be allowed to have a say? They're not attempting to dictate (well, the majority aren't)

3) Why can't people state if they believe someone to be racist? Surely they have as much right to say they are as you do to say they are not.

4) Nobody in BLM has forced anyone Netflix etc. to take content down. That's the providers own doing. Various celebs have said that looking back they wouldnt have produced that content now and that they don't think it's suitable.

5) I don't think anyone would disagree that people are shaped by their environments. But that doesn't mean what happened was acceptable. It certainly doesn't mean it should be celebrated. Child marriage for example existed in the same period as slavery. Would you dismiss that as acceptable due to previous times?

BLM are asking people to pause, think, consider the past, educate themselves, and for us to progress as a society so that things such as 'white privilege' are recognised, if possible removed, if not possible accounted for.

I don't consider myself 'woke' for one moment. I just consider myself as someone who needs to educate myself continuously about the world in which we live.

Carth 11-06-2020 17:30
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36039421)
I see Nigel Farage has left LBC with immediate effect. His comparison of Black Lives Matter to the Taliban probably didn't help his cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039423)
Damn. He should have kept that to himself. I really enjoyed his approach to radio phone ins.
Oh dear, I guess that's the statue out of the frame then :D


edit: . . . and what the jumping billy bob is 'woke' when it's at home? Is it a new name for people who have an axe to grind?

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 17:35
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039426)
Oh dear, I guess that's the statue out of the frame then :D


edit: . . . and what the jumping billy bob is 'woke' when it's at home? Is it a new name for people who have an axe to grind?
You could consider it the opposite to a gammon. In which case you would have gammon vs woke.

Personally I'd rather have Nigellas Gammon in Coke.

Carth 11-06-2020 17:39
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039427)
You could consider it the opposite to a gammon. In which case you would have gammon vs woke.

Personally I'd rather have Nigellas Gammon in Coke.
nope, still no clearer to me . .

2/10 must try harder

mrmistoffelees 11-06-2020 17:40
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039428)
nope, still no clearer to me . .

2/10 must try harder
You know this thing called the World Wide Web? ;)

downquark1 11-06-2020 17:42
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039428)
nope, still no clearer to me . .

2/10 must try harder
Gammon = pale, red faced Englander with bigoted opinions
Woke = crazy guardian leftist who wants to purify all offensive to protected categories

heero_yuy 11-06-2020 17:46
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Quote from The Urban Dictionary: Being "Woke" is what happens when instead of taking one blue pill, you down the entire bottle.
:D

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 18:00
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
A woke person == Grauniad reader.

Woke people and the lycra brigade are on my shit list, obviously.

Damien 11-06-2020 18:00
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039411)
[
By your logic, we should should be all over Germany for what happened 80 years ago.
Not sure Germany is the best example since they very much do put what happened 80 years ago into their history.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 18:24
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039434)
Not sure Germany is the best example since they very much do put what happened 80 years ago into their history.
Our history is an open book too.

peanut 11-06-2020 18:42
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
From what I've read so far here, and in other places it just proves just how petty people are willing to go. There's no winners, only losers. It really is sad.

papa smurf 11-06-2020 18:53
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
The statue fights back

Horror as Black Lives Matter protester hit by toppled statue 'leaving skull showing'

a Black Lives Matter representative tells a Wavy.com reporter live at the scene.
there was a gentleman who was directly in front of the statue and when the statue finally did give way it came and fully hit him in the head.

“You could see his skull was actually showing, he was convulsing on the ground.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...ester-22173777

peanut 11-06-2020 18:59
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039441)
The statue fights back

Horror as Black Lives Matter protester hit by toppled statue 'leaving skull showing'

a Black Lives Matter representative tells a Wavy.com reporter live at the scene.
there was a gentleman who was directly in front of the statue and when the statue finally did give way it came and fully hit him in the head.

“You could see his skull was actually showing, he was convulsing on the ground.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...ester-22173777
Instant Karma in action.

heero_yuy 11-06-2020 19:12
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Schadenfreude: The experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another.
Serves him damn well right.

OLD BOY 11-06-2020 20:45
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039334)
Partially correct, BLM is not just about police brutality but also systemic racism in society. There's equal call in the US for removal of statues, Nascar has banned the use of the confederate flag The military were also open to discussing renaming some of their forts until Trump stopped in and blocked it.

Calling people pathetic for exercising their democratic right to protest (that vast majority of it has been peaceful) seems a little off

I don't think many want to change history, but they want a greater degree of acceptance and or knowledge with regards to who suffered.

Let's use the removal of the statue in Bristol as an example. It's removal does not change the historic events, but it does stop the modern day 'celebration' of the man who perpetrated them.
Vandalism of our statues is not democratic protest. It is criminal damage, and yes, pathetic. As you say, the vast majority of protesters were peaceful, and you know very well I was not referring to them.

If these people who wanted those statues removed in this way were serious about getting 'acceptance and knowledge with regards to who suffered', it's a strange way to go about it, because now the evidence is no longer there, having been removed. The campaign should have rested on having a plaque or inscription that also referred to those matters. That would educate those who did not know.

As for putting the statue in the museum in its sorry state, grafitti covered to boot, that can only have been a decision made by Labour politicians. They should be truly ashamed.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexz (Post 36039352)
You really think explaining to someone how we became who we are from the slave trade will receive admiration or settle the race issue? This will never be a dropped issue, regardless of how many statues you pull down/deface or history you try to 'explain'.

The whole BLM movement in itself was inherently racist. To fight inequality it should benefit all races. Empowering one race does not bring about equality, it drives a huge wedge right through the middle. I've seen the argument "but today we are talking about black lives..."... the last time I looked, there was more than just black people in this world who are still currently oppressed or persecuted because of their race, religion or culture.

I can already see signs of racism being acceptable if its against white people.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...ng-up-22167457

"The difference there is these white characters are an empowered group, so it's actually OK to make a comment on them."
Hold on - this all erupted from black people being brutilised and killed on the streets of the US! It's the police of the US who are racist, and they get away with killing black people every day. They are looking for equality with white people and justice. What's wrong with that?

I suppose you also take the view that the suffragettes should have been campaigning for men to get the vote, even though they already had it. That's how ridiculous the argument you have presented is.

Sephiroth 11-06-2020 21:01
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
This thread is totally ridiculous now.

It's a merri-go-round of of people chasing repeated arguments.

The woke members on this thread can now count me as one down. I'm unsubscribing.

I encourage like minded to do the same so that the woke can chew over detail by themselves.

Pierre 11-06-2020 21:05
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Then, when people see the rioting and what they think they can get away with, this sort of thing happens.

And unbelievably it’s not even the top news item, if it was the other way around...............

https://news.sky.com/video/police-of...ondon-12004888

Hugh 11-06-2020 21:14
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36039398)
Oh dear. An apologist for what's going on.

---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------



Chucking it in the estuary is eradicating history - or at least an attempt.
Nice...

But as The Dude says

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/06/1.gif

Damien 11-06-2020 21:29
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36039455)
Then, when people see the rioting and what they think they can get away with, this sort of thing happens.

And unbelievably it’s not even the top news item, if it was the other way around...............

https://news.sky.com/video/police-of...ondon-12004888
I saw that and it is awful. Sadly though I think it's less a case of this happening because of the protests but something that happens frequently, attacks on the police have been increasing for years now.

Pierre 11-06-2020 21:54
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039465)
I saw that and it is awful. Sadly though I think it's less a case of this happening because of the protests but something that happens frequently, attacks on the police have been increasing for years now.
Regardless of whether it’s directly connected or not you acknowledge the irony?


And immediately gives people a “whataboutary” story to point at and undermine any BLM argument.

At least The media are trying bury it, right down the list on Sky and not even on the BBC app.

Damien 11-06-2020 22:44
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36039474)
Regardless of whether it’s directly connected or not you acknowledge the irony?


And immediately gives people a “whataboutary” story to point at and undermine any BLM argument.

At least The media are trying bury it, right down the list on Sky and not even on the BBC app.
I think it does highlight that policing here is different to the states which is something relevant to the moment. I don't think the same issues that inspired the BLM protests in America are the ones we have here, I think there are different ones.

I don't think the media is trying to bury it, it's just an issue that never gets the coverage it deserves. This is from last year showing it's increasing: https://fullfact.org/crime/assaults-on-police-officers/

Carth 11-06-2020 22:56
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
It's on the BBC news page . . buried under UK > England > Regions > London

edit: now under England

pip08456 11-06-2020 22:56
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039481)
I think it does highlight that policing here is different to the states which is something relevant to the moment. I don't think the same issues that inspired the BLM protests in America are the ones we have here, I think there are different ones.

I don't think the media is trying to bury it, it's just an issue that never gets the coverage it deserves. This is from last year showing it's increasing: https://fullfact.org/crime/assaults-on-police-officers/
Since you mentioned the states here's a cop who laid it bare for the media.

https://twitter.com/stclairashley/st...12559317831680

figgyburn 12-06-2020 11:41
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwi...6224299590951/

An interesting watch.

Damien 12-06-2020 12:09
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039484)
Since you mentioned the states here's a cop who laid it bare for the media.

https://twitter.com/stclairashley/st...12559317831680
It's a pretty powerful video.

I don't know what they're going to do in America. You need the police. The people who think you don't are a minority.

However, you have a much wider amount of people who think they need reform and a police force who are resisting. There seems to be little self-awareness about why people are angry or that they need to change.

You need someone to step up and try to reach a consensus that brings the institution of the police - if not all the officers - on board. Better training, more accountability, better recruitment and management.

That video of Geroge Floyd was sick. They just didn't care. He couldn't breathe, he wasn't resisting arrest and people were begging the police officer to let him breathe but the officer just sat there with his knee on Floyd's neck and he slowly died calling out for his mother. Even after he passed out, down was knee. And this was the police, what can you do if the police are the ones doing this? If someone pushed the officer off Floyd they would be arrested and best or subjected to the same violence at worse.

And it was all on video and the officer wasn't arrested until the riots started. If there was no video that police officer would be on the streets today.

I don't know how they're going to solve this.

Maggy 12-06-2020 13:01
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/opinio...mn/5341884002/

Just to point out how far the racism goes..

1andrew1 12-06-2020 13:30
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039548)
I don't know how they're going to solve this.
It also seems that there is a problem with the police unions which delay and prevent disciplining of its members. They've almost become too successful.
Minneapolis is changing quite drastically on this front.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minneap...-negotiations/

papa smurf 12-06-2020 17:28
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Lundun saved by are tommy :)


Black Lives Matter protest in London's Hyde Park cancelled over far-right fears
Former English Defence League (EDL) leader Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has backed calls by the Democratic Football Lads Alliance for people to travel to London to protect monuments during the Black Lives Matter protest


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ndons-22180297

1andrew1 12-06-2020 17:33
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039590)
Lundun saved by are tommy :)

Black Lives Matter protest in London's Hyde Park cancelled over far-right fears
Former English Defence League (EDL) leader Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has backed calls by the Democratic Football Lads Alliance for people to travel to London to protect monuments during the Black Lives Matter protest

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ndons-22180297
For once, he's done the country a favour as more mass gatherings will only spread the virus.

papa smurf 12-06-2020 17:39
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36039592)
For once, he's done the country a favour as more mass gatherings will only spread the virus.
just doing his patriotic duty :erm:

Hugh 13-06-2020 14:22
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039595)
just doing his patriotic duty :erm:
Nothing displays "patriotism" more than doing Nazi salutes and shouting "F... the police!" at the police cordon 100m from the Cenotaph, and throwing bottles and smoke bombs at the police in Parliament Square.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271755011777794048

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271761377317851136

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271774991454015489

Giving Nazi salutes while defending a statue of Churchill is some outstanding cognitive dissonance.

Carth 13-06-2020 14:51
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Not sure I saw any 'Nazi salutes' in those clips Hugh, maybe it's the thought that counts eh ;)

denphone 13-06-2020 15:06
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039644)
Not sure I saw any 'Nazi salutes' in those clips Hugh, maybe it's the thought that counts eh ;)
Giving Nazi salutes while protecting a statue of Winston Churchill takes some galactic level of stupidity don't you agree.

papa smurf 13-06-2020 15:06
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36039641)
Nothing displays "patriotism" more than doing Nazi salutes and shouting "F... the police!" at the police cordon 100m from the Cenotaph, and throwing bottles and smoke bombs at the police in Parliament Square.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271755011777794048

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271761377317851136

https://twitter.com/i/status/1271774991454015489

Giving Nazi salutes while defending a statue of Churchill is some outstanding cognitive dissonance.
Is are Tommy even there?

Damien 13-06-2020 15:35
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039644)
Not sure I saw any 'Nazi salutes' in those clips Hugh, maybe it's the thought that counts eh ;)
About 12 secs into that first clear there is clearly one, at first it's not clear if they're all just pointing at an odd angle but nope. Nazi salute.

---------- Post added at 14:35 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------

This is turning nasty: https://twitter.com/VinnieoDowd/stat...74513831849985

BenMcr 13-06-2020 16:12
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039652)
Yup https://twitter.com/chowmina_/status...257780736?s=21

papa smurf 13-06-2020 16:16
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36039657)
They seem to be saying all lives matter.

Anyhoo come 5 o'clock it'll all be over or they'll be on the naughty step.

Carth 13-06-2020 16:23
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
When I was a young lad, a copper would clip me around the ear if he caught me riding 2 up on a pushbike . . .



. . then the bleeding heart liberals got involved . .



. . . . and this is the result :rolleyes:

papa smurf 13-06-2020 16:30
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039660)
When I was a young lad, a copper would clip me around the ear if he caught me riding 2 up on a pushbike . . .



. . then the bleeding heart liberals got involved . .



. . . . and this is the result :rolleyes:
This is a result of allowing the lockdown to be broken by baying mobs destroying statues and the police doing nothing.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...ehall-22186133

At least one officer had a baton held up towards the protesters who are chanting "You let your country down", towards them.

Carth 13-06-2020 16:37
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
I don't think the Police are allowed to do anything . . or if they are, they daren't in case it turns into an inquiry that has the potential to destroy their career, or at least get them suspended for many months (when they're needed on the streets)

BenMcr 13-06-2020 16:41
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039658)
They seem to be saying all lives matter.
Indeed, so why then what comes next in the same video?

papa smurf 13-06-2020 16:47
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039662)
I don't think the Police are allowed to do anything . . or if they are, they daren't in case it turns into an inquiry that has the potential to destroy their career, or at least get them suspended for many months (when they're needed on the streets)
All thanks to Bleeding heart Liberals.

---------- Post added at 15:47 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36039663)
Indeed, so why then what comes next in the same video?
A lot of unpleasant language.

BenMcr 13-06-2020 16:54
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039664)
A lot of unpleasant language.
It's a little more than that. It's unpleasant racist language.

denphone 13-06-2020 17:00
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36039666)
It's a little more than that. It's unpleasant racist language.
Indeed its absolutely abhorrent language.

papa smurf 13-06-2020 17:01
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36039666)
It's a little more than that. It's unpleasant racist language.
indeed.

jfman 13-06-2020 17:12
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
I've never understood the link between English nationalism and the Nazi salute.

peanut 13-06-2020 17:25
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Really not sure what the point is or what 'BLM' wants. Seems to me so far their aim is make matters worse and to create a bigger divide. Kind of obvious things are going to kick off.

BenMcr 13-06-2020 17:36
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36039669)
I've never understood the link between English nationalism and the Nazi salute.
There is a clear progression from the Oswald Mosley Fascist movement before the second world war through organisations like the National Front and British National Party, and more recently as the English Defence League.

But you could probably have whole separate discussion about the shifting 'other' than those organisations are against.

downquark1 13-06-2020 17:57
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Looks like they've recreated the Charlottesville dispute.

denphone 13-06-2020 18:07
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36039677)
Looks like they've recreated the Charlottesville dispute.
One of them there today is the leader of far-right white supremacist organisation Britain First.

Maggy 13-06-2020 18:13
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2020/06...kywYL6Qq1zuofs

Quote:
Quote:
A man has told the Rochdale Herald that he’s protecting the statue of Winston Churchill in Whitehall because, “You’d be speaking German if it wasn’t for Churchill”, before giving a Nazi salute. Retired football hooligan, Bill Board attended todays rally to protect the statue from vandals.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Damien 13-06-2020 19:10
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
All the people there must be sharing the same brain cell. Imagine 'defending' Churchill and the Cenotaph with Nazi salutes.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

For some reason they attacked people in a park having a picnic....

https://twitter.com/evanfanning/stat...37543395397632

papa smurf 13-06-2020 19:12
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039684)
All the people there must be sharing the same brain cell. Imagine 'defending' Churchill and the Cenotaph with Nazi salutes.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

For some reason they attacked people in a park having a picnic....

https://twitter.com/evanfanning/stat...37543395397632
it's lockdown madness boiling over.

Damien 13-06-2020 19:20
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
This genius decided the best way to protect the monuments was to urinate on the memorial for PC Keith Palmer who died fighting a terrorist attack!

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/13/man-u...late-12847756/

I suspect he didn't actually pay attention to what it was but what an idiot.

TheDaddy 13-06-2020 19:50
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36039384)
Show me where i said i want to smash the statue?

Accusing me of self righteousness when you're more concerned that a statue is damaged and that its grade 2 listing makes it more important than peoples suffering is just rank hypocrisy.
And yet you're the one who said smashing the statue balanced out 18000 peoples deaths

pip08456 13-06-2020 19:53
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Football stupidly (IMHO) enters the frey, so much for no political symbols.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1271492635061075968

Carth 13-06-2020 20:32
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039689)
Football stupidly (IMHO) enters the frey, so much for no political symbols.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1271492635061075968
Seems to be an awful lot of sheeple doing this 'going down on one knee' thingy, I've not heard or read anything about the Queen doing a Mass Knighting session though :shrug:

. . . unless the email is in the spam folder :D

papa smurf 13-06-2020 20:41
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039689)
Football stupidly (IMHO) enters the frey, so much for no political symbols.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1271492635061075968
Everyone should get one of these

richard s 13-06-2020 21:23
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Great shirt...

Damien 13-06-2020 23:25
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039689)
Football stupidly (IMHO) enters the frey, so much for no political symbols.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1271492635061075968
There isn't a clear no political symbols rule. I.E Poppys are fine here but not fine with FIFA (although FIFA usually let it slide). FIFA is sticker about it.

Both of them allow anti-racist and anti-homophobia symbols as well as charities. So they have the Rainbow laces campaign for LGBT rights and there is a lot of intervention on anti-racism messaging.

In this case it was the Players' union that pushed it and the FA were not going to pick a fight over it.

pip08456 13-06-2020 23:38
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039707)
There isn't a clear no political symbols rule. I.E Poppys are fine here but not fine with FIFA (although FIFA usually let it slide). FIFA is sticker about it.

Both of them allow anti-racist and anti-homophobia symbols as well as charities. So they have the Rainbow laces campaign for LGBT rights and there is a lot of intervention on anti-racism messaging.

In this case it was the Players' union that pushed it and the FA were not going to pick a fight over it.
We'll see how it pans out and if the were right to allow it.

jfman 14-06-2020 00:09
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039708)
We'll see how it pans out and if the were right to allow it.
It can't pan out badly. Will people boycott? No, of course they won't. They'd look ridiculous if they did.

Paul 14-06-2020 01:00
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Well its kinda hard to boycaott something you cannot attend in the first place.

No one is really going to know if you dont watch it on TV.

Its just a dumb publicity stunt, that wont achieve anything, but may bite them in the future.

---------- Post added 14-06-2020 at 00:00 ---------- Previous post was 13-06-2020 at 23:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039684)
All the people there must be sharing the same brain cell. Imagine 'defending' Churchill and the Cenotaph with Nazi salutes.
You seem fascinated by Nazi Salutes .... :erm:

Of course, if people sharing the same brain cell had not decided to loot and dump a statue in Bristol last week, and then attack and deface others, no one would feel the need to defend any other statues.

nomadking 14-06-2020 01:39
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
If people are going to resist arrest aggressively and be "armed", what do they expect?:rolleyes:
Link

Quote:
In the video, he can be seen on the ground outside a Wendy's restaurant, struggling with two police officers.
He grabs an officer's Taser and breaks free from the officers, running away. The other officer then manages to use a Taser on Brooks and both officers then run out of the frame of the video.
Gun shots can then be heard and Brooks is seen on the ground.
He was taken to hospital but later died. One of the officers was treated for an injury from the incident.
Are the police just expected to let them go? It seems so.:mad:

---------- Post added at 00:39 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36039715)
Well its kinda hard to boycaott something you cannot attend in the first place.

No one is really going to know if you dont watch it on TV.

Its just a dumb publicity stunt, that wont achieve anything, but may bite them in the future.

---------- Post added 14-06-2020 at 00:00 ---------- Previous post was 13-06-2020 at 23:54 ----------


You seem fascinated by Nazi Salutes .... :erm:

Of course, if people sharing the same brain cell had not decided to loot and dump a statue in Bristol last week, and then attack and deface others, no one would feel the need to defend any other statues.
The thing about Nazi salutes, is that they should also be seen as calling the other side a Nazi. Which side is suppressing free speech and opinion, and is Socialist?

Julian 14-06-2020 01:39
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36039689)
Football stupidly (IMHO) enters the frey, so much for no political symbols.
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1271492635061075968
Crazy idea.

The first player to not get down on one knee for the cause will be ruthlessly hunted down by the press and a band of uni students.

Meanwhile during the course of the game gallons of spit will be spread across the pitch. :rolleyes:

jfman 14-06-2020 08:23
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36039715)
Well its kinda hard to boycaott something you cannot attend in the first place.

No one is really going to know if you dont watch it on TV.

Its just a dumb publicity stunt, that wont achieve anything, but may bite them in the future.
I 100% agree it’s a publicity stunt - cheap, easy PR and being seen to do the right thing. That’s an easy win for them - much easier than actually resolving racism in the game or society.

With so much money in football, mostly from TV companies half of which comes from overseas, a further high percentage from matchday hospitality at the top. I just don’t see where the ‘bite’ comes from in future. It’d need people to feel so strongly against the stunt that it hits them in the pocket.

downquark1 14-06-2020 09:10
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Someone google "uk prime ministers" and tell me if you see anything odd.

jfman 14-06-2020 09:18
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36039721)
Someone google "uk prime ministers" and tell me if you see anything odd.
No picture of Churchill.

I’m hoping that’s Boris sporting a lockdown haircut in his picture as well. :)

Damien 14-06-2020 10:14
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
1 Attachment(s)
Something a bit weird with the Churchill entry as well. They have the artistic period he was born in listed. They're not pulling though the picture from Wikipedia which is why it's not coming up the thumbnails.

I think the lack of picture is something a bit screwy is happening with their algorithm and all the news items coming out.

Damien 14-06-2020 10:17
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36039715)
You seem fascinated by Nazi Salutes .... :erm:

Of course, if people sharing the same brain cell had not decided to loot and dump a statue in Bristol last week, and then attack and deface others, no one would feel the need to defend any other statues.
That's pretty unfair. I don't see how I am fascinated by them? I mentioned them. Specifically the irony of claiming to defend the Cenotaph and Churchill statue whilst doing them.

Of course that's because they went there for an aggravated punch-up with the police rather than any ideological cause.

Hugh 14-06-2020 10:23
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36039717)
If people are going to resist arrest aggressively and be "armed", what do they expect?:rolleyes:
Link

Are the police just expected to let them go? It seems so.:mad:

---------- Post added at 00:39 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------


The thing about Nazi salutes, is that they should also be seen as calling the other side a Nazi. Which side is suppressing free speech and opinion, and is Socialist?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/1a59...itemid=9628866

Maggy 14-06-2020 10:37
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36039728)
That's pretty unfair. I don't see how I am fascinated by them? I mentioned them. Specifically the irony of claiming to defend the Cenotaph and Churchill statue whilst doing them.

Of course that's because they went there for an aggravated punch-up with the police rather than any ideological cause.
:tu:

Hugh 14-06-2020 10:50
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36039721)
Someone google "uk prime ministers" and tell me if you see anything odd.

papa smurf 14-06-2020 10:57
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36039721)
Someone google "uk prime ministers" and tell me if you see anything odd.
There will be a short interlude while history is being rewritten,please stay calm. The world will be a warmer fluffier place to live in once we are finished;)

Carth 14-06-2020 11:07
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039737)
There will be a short interlude while history is being rewritten,please stay calm. The world will be a warmer fluffier place to live in once we are finished;)

Excellent news, warm & fluffy seems perfect :tu:


I think there may be a Welsh joke in there somewhere ;)

Hugh 14-06-2020 11:43
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36039644)
Not sure I saw any 'Nazi salutes' in those clips Hugh, maybe it's the thought that counts eh ;)
You’re probably right - they probably couldn’t get a signal for their Uber app, so were trying to flag down a taxi.

Probably...

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36039737)
There will be a short interlude while history is being rewritten,please stay calm. The world will be a warmer fluffier place to live in once we are finished;)
The irony of that statement...

The version of history that is displayed by those statues of people like Colston is a revisionist version anyway, missing out the embarrassing parts like his fortune was based on selling people.


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