Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Google (Alphabet) tells US staff to work from home (if they can).

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...me/5016201002/

Re: Coronavirus
 

More irresponsible journalism from the gutter press.

The person was already critically ill and without an autopsy the cause of death cannot be established.

Therefore they should be reporting that someone has died WITH the virus not FROM.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the UK has now reached 456, the biggest rise in a single day in figures just released by the The Department of Health.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51839106

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: World Health Organisation has now officially declared COVID-19 a Pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That'll just make the panic buying worse: My Sainsbury's today as well as the pasta, rice and tinned tomatoes shelves having been stripped the eggs were empty as well. Tinned meat and bread were also taking a hammering. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

No flour in the shop this morning.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sainsburys have said that if they've got it, people can buy whatever they want. I think that this encourages panic buying and shows that they have no care about looking after their regular customers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the contrary, rationing products encourages the impression that supply is limited and simply pushes the problem elsewhere. There is no shortage of supply of basic products and the only real problem is logistics, which is solvable with temporary measures such as suspending delivery curfews.

Once the idiots have all filled their cupboards with toilet rolls and pasta the panic will burn itself out, and then all the local community Facebook pages will be full of said idiots trying to sell on stuff they suddenly realise they have nowhere to keep and no chance of using before Christmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There are now 7 confirmed deaths of COVID-19 in UK, again, someone over 70 with underlying health conditions.

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Correction, make that 8, another person has just been announced.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...id-19-11955177

---------- Post added at 19:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

First COVID-19 Fatality being reported tonight in Republic of Ireland.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeaterday Boris was talking about self isolation if you have flu like symptons stay at home for 7 days.

Well thats not going to happen where I work.

We have a sickness system called the Bradford Factor basically you get scored for the sickness, (1 3-day is better than 3 1-days). which can result in a wriiten warning.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am pretty sure that wouldn't last the legal test, in a Tribunal, given the present circumstances.

Emergency legislation will be put forth next week or soon, that stops employers, penalising their employees, for stopping the spread of the virus, by self isolating, by stopping at home.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Same . . few years ago I spent 2 months in & out of hospital, followed by one month recovering from surgery.

Returned to work to face a disciplinary for absence, which ended up being a waste of everyones time :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is interesting for employers after years of hounding the genuinely sick.. Do they want to encourage staff with the virus to come in and wipe out the rest of the workforce? They might have penalise staff for 'presenteeism' instead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So is it a "disciplinary" or just an investigation asking questions and establishing the truth?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Letting the bulk buyers buy up all the stock and leaving empty shelves makes it look like there is a shortage too.

When there has been petrol shortages, the retailers usually only sell to regulars only or they limit supplies to ensure that there is some left for their regular customers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The letter I got gave me the date/time of a disciplinary, which could lead to dismissal. Quite obviously protocol has to be followed . . even though it (in some cases) clearly overrides common sense ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who would unilaterally get to decide a matter even on something that is "common sense"? If they came to what is seen as the wrong conclusion, then there would be appeal after appeal. Any investigation might lead to consequences, eg dismissal. They would have to warn you to take to take the process seriously. Blame the people who go off sick with stress or back pain, but are found to be doing other jobs instead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: U.S President Donald Trump suspends ALL travel from Europe (except UK) starting midnight Friday, for 30 days.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Tom Hanks and his wife Rita Wilson test positive for coronavirus

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Markets across the World tumble on the news that America has restricted entry to the U.S, from Mainland Europe, though not the UK.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At least they are not panicing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When I saw this earlier, there were words that wouldn't be acceptable on a family forum but then the clarifications started to come clear...

So it looks like cargo isn't affected and that's a biggie for the company I work for as we ship A LOT to the US. Then it was clarified that it's only Schengen countries affected so people from Albania, Andora, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Cyprus, Georgia, Ireland, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine, The United Kingdom and Vatican City are not affected.

One of my work friends is Finnish and in the US now. He was due to come back on Sunday but I bet he's trying to reschedule flights rapidly right now!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why would your friend need to reschedule his flights?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good luck with using the airport at the Vatican City...

Re: Coronavirus
 

UK expected to move to 'delay' phase after Cobra meeting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51845861

Re: Coronavirus
 

All a bit late. We needed to act more quickly, not wait for things to get worse i.e. proactive not reactive.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the schools were closed and they stayed at home, that would be fine. The problem is that instead they will be milling around shops, shopping centres, and public transport, spreading it to people who actually need to be in those places. The difference between schools and other public gatherings is that in the schools they have already been mixing with that group. At a sports event people travel from far and wide, and they then return home. If it can be restricted to certain geographical areas that will help the system to cope.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It looks like schools look like being closed for up to 2 months and that is just one of the many steps which are being discussed at the Cobra meeting as we move to the delay phase.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very good point, all you'd really be doing is transferring the 'risk' to another area . . . although most kids would nowadays quite happily stay indoors in front of their PS4 24/7 ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its a great point as perhaps in the next phase we might soon need some type of lockdown like Italy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

an inch of snow would be a blessing, that usually causes complete gridlock in the UK :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

l doubt we will get any of the white stuff but there is always hope.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Reacting too quickly would have been the wrong thing to do...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Too many "Contrary Marys", who simply say the opposite, just because, and without thinking everything through.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Too many keyboard experts.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What is happening is a careful balancing act between:
1) Saving lives
2) Saving the economy
3) Saving the NHS from being swamped

People are going to argue over how exactly this is done best.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Republic of Ireland closes schools and colleges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51850811

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or perhaps those who work in the healthcare sector, like me, who knows what he’s talking about!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’d be interested to learn which professional qualifications and experience you’re resting on in making that assertion. What’s your area of expertise? (Hint: ‘it’s the Tories therefore they’re wrong’ isn’t an area of expertise).

This is the most significant public health emergency we have faced in years. There’s very little space for armchair experts and keyboard warriors here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Understood and I wasn't pointing a finger at you. Merely passing an observation about social media in general.:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

And what's your expertise? Planning for the worst is not a bad starting point, hopefully it won't be that bad. Even the US has taken more extreme measures than us. We do seem to be reacting to events . However nobody, including the 'experts' know how this is going to pan out. Overeacting is better than undereacting where lives are at stake.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I cheerfully accept I have none. But then I’m not the one criticising decisions that are quite obviously being led by science. I’ve been paying close attention to the things our senior public health experts have been saying over the last week and thus far I have seen no evidence of our political leaders taking decisions that are not solidly grounded in what they have been saying.

If you’re going to be critical of the decisions being made, either explain how you are qualified to do so, or else cite the contrary expert opinion you’re resting your claims on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because airlines are not likely to run one way flights from the US to Finland with no passengers flying back the other way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l a not a fan of this government but that is utterly irrelevant as all of us are in hands of the our senior public health experts and we should trust their expertise as personally l just wish politics could be kept out of a important thread for once.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That much!! It normally stops at the hint of a few flakes.

Re: Coronavirus
 

McLaren pull out of Australian Grand Prix after team member tests positive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51849163

Re: Coronavirus
 

How are US citizens to get from Finland back to the US?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The problem in closing schools is with many families both parents work. If your children cannot go to school then one parent probably has to take time off work to look after them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At least there is still some money coming in. What about one parent families?

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is why government help is needed as some measures were announced in the budget.

Re: Coronavirus
 

His concern is that the load factor will be low enough that his flight will be uneconomical and therefore cancelled. He's worried he'll end up pinging around Europe instead of going direct. Luckily, our work is trying to sort out a seat for tomorrow for him to fly directly home.

Takes me back to the Icelandic volcano where we had four engineers in Barcelona. They ended buying a nasty old car and driving back to the UK and selling it for scrap!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Scotland bans mass gatherings of more than 500 people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...icter-measures

Re: Coronavirus
 

FTSE 100 Index drops more than 10% in one day since 1987!!! :eek:

Re: Coronavirus
 

And Wall Street was briefly suspended again earlier Mick as the markets take fright..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Italian death toll rises to 1,016 from 827.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Australian GP has be posponed, Vietnam might follow suit.

Trouble is there not much room to squeeze it in, unless they cancell the mid season break and put it there.

The Oz GP could be put neat the Japanese GP at the end of the year

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

I did my weekly shop, no pasta, alcohol cleaner, or frozen veg.

So ready meals it is then.


Had toilet roll though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Boris is a knob head to still allow large gatherings.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You may find THIS explains the decision, based on scientific evidence and advice. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

By taking a plane to an airport like Heathrow that still has flights to the US.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The problem with large gatherings of people who have gathered from afar, is that it takes just one transmission from a person from one area to transfer it to another area. Instead of one close group being potentially affected, two get affected.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If Boris thought it was necessary to stop large gatherings he would have done so.

Medical and Scientific advice is leading this, if the experts say gathering is to be banned then it will happen on their advice alone, I don't think he is playing fast and loose with the health of the public.

Re: Coronavirus
 

He will do so in a week or two. They are pacing people, if you restrict people too soon they will get bored and roam when the situation has got much worse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No such issues at my local Tesco up here in Yorkshire, shelves all stocked no one acting like a dick.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Are the Chief Medical Officer and Science Officer knobs too?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Italy has banned large gatherings and the country is on lock down, the infection is still spreading very rapidly, so work that out will you?

So Boris isn’t a knob. When you become an expert at Behavioural studies, come to learn that we’re not at the peak of this infection spread, banning large gatherings now would be a costly mistake.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Other EU countries have only very recently introduced various bans, eg Ireland just a matter of hours ago. Are those leaders also KHs for not acting before?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I find it hard to believe he actually said that.

If I stand next to one person, the number of people I will infect is somewhere between 0 and 1. If six stand around me in a crowd, I could infect up to 6, possibly more.

Just because the average person infects 2-3, doesn't mean everyone will infect 2-3, regardless of context.

Am I wrong?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The issue with Ireland is that they are closing all Schools. Children will still come into contact with other children, they’re also less likely to show any symptoms but that doesn’t stop them being carriers, so they’re off school, being looked after by whom, their grandparents, the very age group that are likely to be struck down by the spread.

Also whilst all the children are off school, that’s potentially taking doctors and nurses out of hospitals, to look after their offspring, all at time when their presence is desperately required looking after the people who are seriously ill by this virus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You are correct. This number is called the r factor and it depends on the context of what you are doing. Obviously if you seal yourself in a room you will not infect anyone. This is the whole point of self isolation, to get the r factor below 1.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mikel Arteta becomes the latest high profile name to contract the virus. Presumably now isolating the entire Arsenal football squad.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yet the UK Government isn't ruling this out, nor are they ruling out banning large gatherings.

Indeed, it's accepted as inevitable. What makes 8-9 days time the optimum time to do so, when potentially thousands of asymptomatic carriers are out there right now?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's everything else that goes into match day that needs to be considered. When I go to a game I travel by train from Edinburgh to Glasgow. The train is always full to the brim by the time it arrives in Glasgow. Then it's off to the pub for a couple of pints. Again the boozer is usually bursting at the seems. At the ground I've got to queue to get in, share toilet facilities with thousands then queue at half time for a pie. Pretty much the same on the way home. All in I've probably been within a metre of hundreds of people within 6 hours. If I was infected coughing and sneezing my way through the day how many people could I realistically infect? Certainly more than a couple.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because we are not yet at the peak spread of this virus yet and that matters, why do some of you not get this, I would say the CMO and his advisors are better placed to know what they’re saying.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because nobody has adequately explained why the peak matters - indeed by its very nature intervening prevents a "peak" from happening.

I'm unsure why our Chief Medical Officer is deemed more qualified than that of another country. Another statement inadequately explained.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here’s someone who actually knows what they’re talking about. The relevant bit starts around 14 minutes in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000g3gh

Re: Coronavirus
 

Disney's Mulan release delayed until later in the year due to COVID-19.

https://www.ign.com/articles/mulan-release-date-delayed

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just heard one of the World's foremost experts on pandemics, Dr Dena Grayson say not banning large gatherings now would be a costly mistake. She made no comment on whether Bozo is or isn't a knob though. For me the jury's out on him, he got away with showing no leadership during the floods by saying his presence would detract from the work being done, he won't get away with that again on this. Dr Dena did say she thought the pandemic would move more to the Southern Hemisphere soon and return to us next year when there will be a absolute explosion in numbers of victims, something to look forward to.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So much like the Flu does, every year (and probably others as well). Its a wonder we are all still alive. :dozey:

Re: Coronavirus
 

True story.

Went out for a beer/food tonight to Ricky T’s Bar & Grille in Treasure Island, St Petersburg, Florida - we (four of us) were asked by the barman if we had Coronavirus.

We said "no, why?" - he responded "well, you’re from Europe, they all have it there...".

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s a lot of analogies but no actual evidence to support it. There’s a risk of apathy? :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

No it doesn’t prevent it, it can no longer be prevented and it was adequately explained, you just got your usual awkward head on and I don’t have to justify stuff to you.

The behavioural studies and science behind their decisions, suggest banning and quarantining people before the peak has happened would cause people fatigue, they’d eventually get fed up and start to live their lives again and meeting people.

The CMO said the virus pretty much can no longer be contained, too many people have the virus. I trust their word and logic behind their explanations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How do you explain China reporting it’s lowest figures yet?

That suggests it can be contained. What you mean to say is our Government has decided to value the economic impact over the human impact. You have blind trust in our Government - hardly unexpected to readers of this forum I’m sure - but to suggest this is an evidence based decision is ignoring er, evidence.

Countries like Italy will continue to report rises until the full effect of closures flow through the figures. Probably two weeks. Asymptomatic people becoming symptomatic and people they had contact with plus testing catching up with cases. This doesn’t actually mean more people have it - only that we are aware of them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The expert virologist being interviewed at that point is summarising conclusions that arise from the evidence of social modelling as well as modelling of viral transmission.

If you know of a way of transmitting the spreadsheets he’s working from directly into people’s brains via FM, please contact the BBC as I’m sure they’ll be delighted to hear about it.

You’re being obtuse, and you know you are. It’s obvious to all but the wilfully blind (and those who can’t get past their hatred of Tories, or Boris, or both, just because they happen to be the ones acting on advice) that the response to this is being led by the advice and research of world leading experts in the field.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don’t think it is obvious. Do other countries lack access to world leading experts?

The BBC, in an effort to justify this, had someone on to say that we are behaviourally different from other cultures. I’d say that self preservation, reducing risk to the self and loved ones, are fairly universal human traits. E.g. look at Premiership footballers. Yesterday happy for half a million fans to attend games in close proximity to complete strangers of unknown health. Today: no playing any more when we’re the ones at risk.

Interestingly the Chief Medical Officer is on Radio 5 just now confirming there’s only capacity to test 2000 people per day. So we lack the capacity to establish a true figure if, as Boris claims, 10 000 people could already have it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oddly enough I had a conversation with the head of waste collection at my local council not so long ago after we had a run of missed wheelie bin pickups ... the conversation wandered a bit and we ended up talking about the design of bins and the way routes are plotted and resources allocated.

The most efficient way of doing it, with wheelie bins, is to tell residents to present their bins facing a certain way, and to deploy a vehicle that can lift them directly from the kerb without having to be manually put onto the metal arm. These are very widely used in Europe. The reason most local councils in the UK don’t use this system - and why some who have tried it have abandoned it - is because we are ... guess what ... behaviourally different than a lot of other places. We simply won’t position our bins exactly the way the council tells us to.

As I said, there is social modelling going on here as well as virology. It is simply the case that in the UK if mass gatherings were banned too early, there is a risk people would get bored of official advice and start ignoring it too soon, while the virus was still present in enough people to start a resurgence.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you’d listen to the scientist you’d know. The aim is not to stop people getting it, that is impossible. The aim is to flatten the peak in the distribution curve, so we don’t all get it at once. So you have to anticipate when the peak will be and the introduce all the measures just before that.

Flatten out the peak and reduce the burden on the health system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So your interpretation of the current UK Government policy is that everyone will get it at some point and that’s the explanation of why we are making no efforts to contain it?

Fair enough.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

But what does China do from now? At some point they have to release the controls, at which point a billion get infected from the rest of the world.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Both China and Italy reached severe points before implementing any bans. People won't mess about with the Chinese authorities. Do the Chinese have the same amount of big social or sports gatherings?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Politics at home is reporting that the Liberal democrats are shelving their conference. I thought only mass attendance events should be cancelled. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

A country of a billion people I'm sure they must gather in some way.

China and Italy did reach severe points yes, although not intentionally.

People won't mess with the Chinese authorities - you've raised an interesting point. The UK isn't equipped to enforce such a situation - look at the London riots for instance. Amplify that and what do you have?

However the UK public services being unable to enforce such a situation doesn't mean that a quarantine isn't the most effective way to manage it. Simply that we're a nation of fools who think we know better.

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Boom boom!

I used a similar line with the Scottish Greens yesterday.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure I'm following this Chinese discussion correctly.

Once the Chinese government agreed on a policy of containment they implemented a number of things ranging from:

Enforcing a rule where everyone must stay at home with only one person being allowed to the shops every other day.

Putting police and military checkpoint at city entrances.

Using flying drones to monitor and dispense orders to people below.

In some cases, welding the doors shut on people's flats.

Suffice it to say, there were no large gatherings when they decided to stop them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course not, because when it comes to it the Chinese will end a large gathering with tanks. For better or worse, the subjects of the dictatorship that runs China know not to overstep the mark.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was under the impression that nomadking was implying this was something they wouldn't ordinarily do in the absence of Coronavirus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Correct, the contain phase has passed, there's no stopping it now. All we can do is slow down to a slow burner and not a flash fire.

That will reduce the burden on the health services and give the population time to build up some herd immunity to the virus before a vaccine is developed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But did they? Only Hubei region reached severe points before any bans in China. It remains to be seen if the other regions jumped the gun and we may see a resergence once the clampdown is lifted.

Here's a graph showing the other Chinese regions compared to S.Korea, Italy and Iran.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's what I'm confused about. At the very least the Chinese have busy markets and live close quarters in busy cities. So of course they have "large gatherings"

Re: Coronavirus
 

They went far further than banning large gatherings. Areas of China were locked down for nearly 2 months.

Try doing and enforcing that in this country. People can't even be bothered or disciplined enough to not go out if they are coughing and spluttering all over the place. Even if that coughing and spluttering is due to "routine" coughs and colds, they could still be acquiring and transmitting this virus as well.



The peak in the UK might not happen for another 3 months. Are people going to remain disciplined for that length of time?


You only have to look at what happens at weekends and school holidays to see that schoolkids would be milling around with everybody else, including the elderly.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So containment is possible and is the most effective method. We are just ill disciplined and under-resourced to implement it.

Thanks.