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-   -   Election 2019, Week 1 (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708325)

denphone 07-11-2019 12:39

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016374)
According to statistics Remain voters are highly educated !

Personally l find it rather silly why some want to generalise this group and that group and any other group one wants to mention.

Rexz 07-11-2019 12:39

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016357)
Proportional representation. As in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Germany, etc.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------



I doubt 33 million people sought to educate themselves on all of those matters.

So what. They don't have to educate themselves. They have a right of a vote, regardless of choice or reason. They don't need to explain why they voted.

nomadking 07-11-2019 12:40

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016370)
It would literally be a Government that people did vote for.

They wouldn't have voted for a particular resulting government and policies.

jfman 07-11-2019 13:53

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36016378)
They wouldn't have voted for a particular resulting government and policies.

It'd have closer policy outcomes to what the majority want, rather than satisfying a minority of the people with a majority Government.

Compromise - I know that notion died in 2016 - would be the result. Either way I'm only pointing out that in the UK FPTP, an unelected House of Lords and an ineffective Head of State leave us some distance from what could be considered democracy.

Chris 07-11-2019 14:08

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Point of order - our head of state is not ineffective. The monarch does her job perfectly well. Electing a head of state to the constitutional and ceremonial role occupied by the monarch wouldn’t do anything to make the role more politically active (which is what you appear to be confusing with effectiveness). To do that we would have to make deep constitutional changes and create an executive presidency after the American or French model. I don’t find that idea especially attractive.

jfman 07-11-2019 14:42

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
She literally sat there and had to carry forward illegal advice from a Prime Minister. Totally ineffective in a role that could and should perform an important check and balance against an incompetent executive.

ianch99 07-11-2019 15:07

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016384)
She literally sat there and had to carry forward illegal advice from a Prime Minister. Totally ineffective in a role that could and should perform an important check and balance against an incompetent executive.

Totally agree. Shows how irrelevant the current incumbent is in today's world.

Carth 07-11-2019 15:34

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016387)
Totally agree. Shows how irrelevant the current incumbent is in today's world.

say that to her face :D

jfman 07-11-2019 15:37

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016387)
Totally agree. Shows how irrelevant the current incumbent is in today's world.

A centuries outdated concept that should die off with our colonial history

---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016389)
say that to her face :D

Say it to Prince Philip's but remember to turn down the offer of a chauffeur driven Mercedes outside afterwards just in case. Get an Uber.

ianch99 07-11-2019 15:47

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016389)
say that to her face :D

Why?

denphone 07-11-2019 15:49

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Taxes will rise says George...

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a4281221.html

Pierre 07-11-2019 16:13

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016384)
She literally sat there and had to carry forward illegal advice from a Prime Minister

Oh ok......been at the cool aid again. it wasn't deemed illegal when it was said to her and she acted upon it.

It was only deemed "illegal" (and I'm not sure if illegal is the right word, as no law was broken) when the supreme court judged simply that parliament had not been prorougued.


Quote:

Totally ineffective in a role that could and should perform an important check and balance against an incompetent executive.
stop being silly now.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016387)
Totally agree. Shows how irrelevant the current incumbent is in today's world.

another one that fell off the silly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

jfman 07-11-2019 16:19

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36016396)
Oh ok......been at the cool aid again. it wasn't deemed illegal when it was said to her and she acted upon it.

It was only deemed "illegal" (and I'm not sure if illegal is the right word, as no law was broken) when the supreme court judged simply that parliament had not been prorougued.

stop being silly now.

---------- Post added at 16:13 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------



another one that fell off the silly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

If you want to be pedantic I don’t care for the distinction between illegal and unlawful.

She was unable to take separate legal advice from that of the a Government hence she was completely ineffective which was my exact point.

Your subservient mind may not be able to see the obvious however many of us can.

gba93 07-11-2019 16:23

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36016396)
Oh ok......been at the cool aid again. it wasn't deemed illegal when it was said to her and she acted upon it.

It was only deemed "illegal" (and I'm not sure if illegal is the right word, as no law was broken) when the supreme court judged simply that parliament had not been prorougued.


It wasn't illegal but it was unlawful and that wasn't so until the Supreme Court ruled on it so the Queen's actions were perfectly correct at the time of asking. As for ineffective many people have confirmed that the meetings she has with the Prime Minister of the day are anything but comfortable for the incumbent.

jfman 07-11-2019 16:51

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gba93 (Post 36016399)
It wasn't illegal but it was unlawful and that wasn't so until the Supreme Court ruled on it so the Queen's actions were perfectly correct at the time of asking. As for ineffective many people have confirmed that the meetings she has with the Prime Minister of the day are anything but comfortable for the incumbent.

Many people on the Crown’s coin, Establishment stooges.

Maggy 07-11-2019 17:11

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016383)
Point of order - our head of state is not ineffective. The monarch does her job perfectly well. Electing a head of state to the constitutional and ceremonial role occupied by the monarch wouldn’t do anything to make the role more politically active (which is what you appear to be confusing with effectiveness). To do that we would have to make deep constitutional changes and create an executive presidency after the American or French model. I don’t find that idea especially attractive.

:clap:

Pierre 07-11-2019 17:14

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016403)
Many people on the Crown’s coin, Establishment stooges.


You should get your own show.

papa smurf 07-11-2019 17:33

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36016405)
You should get your own show.

Make sure it's on when i'm asleep in bed.

ianch99 07-11-2019 17:35

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36016396)
another one that fell off the silly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

How terrible the world must be for you ... :p:

jfman 07-11-2019 17:36

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36016405)
You should get your own show.

Are you denying that these “observers” or participants are part of the Establishment?

It’s best not to demonstrate complete ignorance when your argument is already on shaky ground.

gba93 07-11-2019 17:43

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016403)
Many people on the Crown’s coin, Establishment stooges.

As you have only responded to the second part of my post do I take it you are accepting the first part? Oh and just to point out that the people who determined the proroguing was unlawful were, by definition, on the "Crown's coin" and, therefore, by your argument "Establishment stooges" so should we ignore their part in the process?

jfman 07-11-2019 18:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gba93 (Post 36016411)
As you have only responded to the second part of my post do I take it you are accepting the first part? Oh and just to point out that the people who determined the proroguing was unlawful were, by definition, on the "Crown's coin" and, therefore, by your argument "Establishment stooges" so should we ignore their part in the process?

I addressed the illegal/unlawful point earlier - the fact is the Queen couldn’t seek her own legal advice or make her own judgement making her ineffective.

I don’t think the Government are blameless, indeed they deserve most of the blame for that farce.

OLD BOY 07-11-2019 19:10

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016342)
He's not a Labour MP.

Ok, a former Labour MP. I hope that clarification helps.:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 18:51 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016350)
This isn't the Brexit thread, from which I'm currently banned, so I'm not going to address your points, which I suspect you've had three years to formulate after the fact.

The UK can hardly be democratic with majority Governments that 65% of people voted for someone else.

Take a cold shower, jfman. I was responding to the point made in your own post. :D

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016357)
Proportional representation. As in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Germany, etc.

---------- Post added at 11:38 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------



I doubt 33 million people sought to educate themselves on all of those matters.

Exactly how high a level of education do you need to work that out, jfman? What an arrogant point of view you have towards Labour voting leavers!

One can only assume they were who you were referring to.

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016361)
I chose this article because it was reasonably balanced and offered an objective opinion. Things that you seem to be incapable of understanding. All Governments can be criticised with the clarity of hindsight but the essence of this article is that the overwhelming cause of the 10 years of austerity was the 2008/9 financial crisis caused by the City and their free market greed. Furthermore, the people who caused this get bailed out by us, the tax payer, with no penalties and are now busy working a repeat of 2008/9.

Your inability to assign the blame at the door of those responsible speaks volumes ...

You only think the article is balanced because it meets with your mindset. I was drawing attention to a certain part of that article to show that the point I had been making was valid. Strange that you are so blind to that that you appear to have 'unseen' it.

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016365)
Give it a break. The "I know what I voted for" ship has long sailed. All the adults in the room understand that people voted for many different reasons. In fact, and this is a real shock I suspect, some voted for no reason at all. They didn't give a damn because no-one gave a damn about them.

You seem quite happy for remainers to trot out this nonsense, but when leavers send out their consistent responses, you moan about it. If you don't want to hear this response over and over then tell your mates to stop making the same points over and over. The answer won't change the more times you make erroneous statements.

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016370)
It would literally be a Government that people did vote for.

Yes, a hung Parliament in perpetuity. Now wouldn't you just like that! :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016374)
According to statistics Remain voters are highly educated !

Obviously the view of highly qualified remain supporting statisticians.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016382)
It'd have closer policy outcomes to what the majority want, rather than satisfying a minority of the people with a majority Government.

Compromise - I know that notion died in 2016 - would be the result. Either way I'm only pointing out that in the UK FPTP, an unelected House of Lords and an ineffective Head of State leave us some distance from what could be considered democracy.

No, it would satisfy nobody. Have you not heard the frustration of the people of having to endure this Parliamentary pergatory for the last few years? That is definitely not what people want. That would only play into the hands of anarchists.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016384)
She literally sat there and had to carry forward illegal advice from a Prime Minister. Totally ineffective in a role that could and should perform an important check and balance against an incompetent executive.

I think the Queen is far more educated in terms of constitutional matters than most presidents. I would remind you that the legal advice was endorsed by the Attorney General. Why should she not accept it?

The core of the problem was that a biased Speaker who showed clearly that he would do all he could to sabotage Brexit simply manipulated the rules of Parliament and caused a Constitutional crisis.

Fortunately, in the new Parliament we will have a more traditional Speaker whom both sides can respect.

Chris 07-11-2019 20:51

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016384)
She literally sat there and had to carry forward illegal advice from a Prime Minister. Totally ineffective in a role that could and should perform an important check and balance against an incompetent executive.

Illegal: forbidden by law.
Unlawful: not authorised by law.

If you’re going to play lawyers, do try to get your basic facts right. The Supreme Court ruled the advice unlawful, not illegal. There is more than a trivial difference between the two.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016413)
I addressed the illegal/unlawful point earlier - the fact is the Queen couldn’t seek her own legal advice or make her own judgement making her ineffective.

I don’t think the Government are blameless, indeed they deserve most of the blame for that farce.

It is not the Queen’s role to seek advice from any other source. Her constitutional role is to receive advice from ministers. That is what ministers are for.

You can’t judge someone ineffective for not doing something they are neither permitted nor expected to do. You might as well declare your car ineffective because it doesn’t float.

pip08456 07-11-2019 21:26

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016430)
Illegal: forbidden by law.
Unlawful: not authorised by law.

If you’re going to play lawyers, do try to get your basic facts right. The Supreme Court ruled the advice unlawful, not illegal. There is more than a trivial difference between the two.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------



It is not the Queen’s role to seek advice from any other source. Her constitutional role is to receive advice from ministers. That is what ministers are for.

You can’t judge someone ineffective for not doing something they are neither permitted nor expected to do. You might as well declare your car ineffective because it doesn’t float.

Could we wait for him to try floating it first?:D

Pierre 07-11-2019 22:10

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016410)
Are you denying that these “observers” or participants are part of the Establishment? .

Which “Observers” are you referring to?

Which “Establishment” are you referring to?

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016409)
How terrible the world must be for you ... :p:

The world is great for me, how are you doing?

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016413)
I addressed the illegal/unlawful point earlier - the fact is the Queen couldn’t seek her own legal advice or make her own judgement making her ineffective.

The queen didn’t need any legal advice, as when the PM requested her to prorogue Parliament there was no reason for her to decline the request.

---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:09 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36016432)
Could we wait for him to try floating it first?:D

Oh please.

ianch99 07-11-2019 22:21

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36016417)
I was drawing attention to a certain part of that article to show that the point I had been making was valid

Let's make this very clear shall we? You blame the 10 years of austerity on Labour. You do not accept the real cause. You constantly peddle the free market dream world in denial of the facts.

Your "point" is to perpetuate the lie that free market capitalism is the answer when everyone can see that this ship has sailed, hit the iceberg and all we see is you rearranging the deckchairs ...

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016430)
Illegal: forbidden by law.
Unlawful: not authorised by law.

If you’re going to play lawyers, do try to get your basic facts right. The Supreme Court ruled the advice unlawful, not illegal. There is more than a trivial difference between the two.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------



It is not the Queen’s role to seek advice from any other source. Her constitutional role is to receive advice from ministers. That is what ministers are for.

You can’t judge someone ineffective for not doing something they are neither permitted nor expected to do. You might as well declare your car ineffective because it doesn’t float.

I feel the point here is that the Head of State should, with appropriate help, be in a position to validate the "advice" received from the Executive. If not, then what value does this individual contribute in terms of Government?

Chris 07-11-2019 22:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016441)
Let's make this very clear shall we? You blame the 10 years of austerity on Labour. You do not accept the real cause. You constantly peddle the free market dream world in denial of the facts.

Your "point" is to perpetuate the lie that free market capitalism is the answer when everyone can see that this ship has sailed, hit the iceberg and all we see is you rearranging the deckchairs ...

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------



I feel the point here is that the Head of State should, with appropriate help, be in a position to validate the "advice" received from the Executive. If not, then what value does this individual contribute in terms of Government?

The Queen is entitled to be consulted and to offer words of advice. Beyond that she contributes little to government, which is as it should be. The wearer of the crown is not elected so should not exercise executive power.

The point of the Crown in our constitution is that it is where power is located. That power cannot be exercised by the person wearing the crown, because they are constitutionally restricted from doing so, and it cannot be appropriated by legislators who must swear allegiance to it as a condition of office. It cannot be taken by revolution because nobody can wear it but the legitimate heir.

Now we could junk all of this and opt for a republic with an executive presidency, with powers delineated by a written constitution, but that is no guarantee of better government or decision making. In fact our own Supreme Court, operating with years of precedent and Acts of Parliament (or lack of, hence “unlawful”, not “illegal” in the case of prorogation), dealt with that issue rather more quickly than the Americans are presently dealing with the potential impeachment of Donald Trump, and all the while the United States has a head of state that is a divisive political figure rather than a symbol of unity.

If we were setting up a country from scratch today, it’s highly unlikely we would create a constitutional monarchy. But the point is, we aren’t creating a country from scratch, we’re living in one whose democracy and institutions have remained stable for longer than just about anywhere else in the world, and much of that sense of stability, continuity and unity is symbolised by the Crown. Asking whether the Queen should involve herself in government more directly appears trivial by comparison.

OLD BOY 08-11-2019 07:25

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36016441)
Let's make this very clear shall we? You blame the 10 years of austerity on Labour. You do not accept the real cause. You constantly peddle the free market dream world in denial of the facts.

Your "point" is to perpetuate the lie that free market capitalism is the answer when everyone can see that this ship has sailed, hit the iceberg and all we see is you rearranging the deckchairs ..

Now you are just re-writing history. Even Labour had to admit the money had run out.

As for 'free market capitalism', what do you propose instead? Communism doesn't work. The system that works best is a mixed economy, which is what we have.

Mr K 08-11-2019 07:54

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36016450)
Now you are just re-writing history. Even Labour had to admit the money had run out.

As for 'free market capitalism', what do you propose instead? Communism doesn't work. The system that works best is a mixed economy, which is what we have.

I'm stood on a delayed 1970s overcrowded, overpriced, failed heating train this morning, going nowhere slowly. One of many areas where the private sector has failed us (they of course, are doing quite well out of it !)

The economy isn't working well, and will be worse if those self centered idiots get another 5 years. Borrowing not seen since the 1970s is planned by this Govt., sublime to the ridiculous... Austerity was for nothing, has caused huge uneeded damage and solved nothing.

denphone 08-11-2019 08:17

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016454)
I'm stood on a delayed 1970s overcrowded, overpriced, failed heating train this morning, going nowhere slowly. One of many areas where the private sector has failed us (they of course, are doing quite well out of it !)

The economy isn't working well, and will be worse if those self centered idiots get another 5 years. Borrowing not seen since the 1970s is planned by this Govt., sublime to the ridiculous... Austerity was for nothing, has caused huge uneeded damage and solved nothing.

Its quite amazing how the Conservatives who want to keep their grubby hands on power for the next five years have suddenly gone down the oppositions route of shredding their fiscal rules and having a binge on borrowing.

Jam today gruel tomorrow springs to mind Mr K..

Mr K 08-11-2019 09:04

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36016455)
Jam today gruel tomorrow springs to mind Mr K..

Indeed Den, it'll be spending for a year after the election, then austerity for another 20 years to make up for it, targeted at the most vulnerable again, of course. More fool the public if they vote for it.

Chris 08-11-2019 09:08

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016454)
I'm stood on a delayed 1970s overcrowded, overpriced, failed heating train this morning.

This is unlikely. What train was it?

jfman 08-11-2019 09:21

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016430)
Illegal: forbidden by law.
Unlawful: not authorised by law.

If you’re going to play lawyers, do try to get your basic facts right. The Supreme Court ruled the advice unlawful, not illegal. There is more than a trivial difference between the two.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------



It is not the Queen’s role to seek advice from any other source. Her constitutional role is to receive advice from ministers. That is what ministers are for.

You can’t judge someone ineffective for not doing something they are neither permitted nor expected to do. You might as well declare your car ineffective because it doesn’t float.

In this case the distinction is irrelevant. The Prime Minister sought to carry out an action that he was constitutionally unable to do. The outcome: to have that action reversed. Illegal and unlawful are irrelevant to the point. I also at no point said they mean the same thing - I said I didn’t care for the distinction in this instance because it has no bearing on outcome.

I can judge someone ineffective for having no role other than being a passive observer to an unlawful act. Yes, I absolutely can.

Mr K 08-11-2019 09:23

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016458)
This is unlikely. What train was it?

It's a Pacer train in the North if England, and yes it maybe 1980's, but that makes it no better. Its a bus on a track, even the bloody windows leak ! Unlimited money for Crossrail in London though....

denphone 08-11-2019 09:27

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016461)
It's a Pacer train in the North if England, and yes it maybe 1980's, but that makes it no better. Its a bus on a track, even the bloody windows leak ! Unlimited money for Crossrail in London though....

Those old Pacers did it go bumpety bump bump .:D:D as they were supposed to have gone the way of the dodo many years ago.

Chris 08-11-2019 09:33

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016461)
It's a Pacer train in the North if England, and yes it maybe 1980's, but that makes it no better. Its a bus on a track, even the bloody windows leak ! Unlimited money for Crossrail in London though....

Now see, if you’d said “Merseyrail” you’d have had me. They genuinely are running a 1970s fleet, for a few more months anyway. :D

The Pacers are much maligned, and not very comfortable, but they are pretty reliable mechanically and cheap as chips to build and run. Arguably they saved a lot of less well used lines from closure in the 1980s when passenger numbers were in their trough and helped keep the network going. Those lines are busy now, but can only be busy now because of the lifeline your Pacer provided back then. There simply wasn’t the business case to provide anything more luxurious at the time, though I agree more could have been done before now.

It’s interesting, the Barnett Formula means that when a project like Crossrail is approved in London, an amount of money is allocated for spending in Scotland because money is being spent in England, and not because there is a specific project requiring funding. The formula was designed to prevent easier business cases in high population areas like London sucking up government investment, leaving Scotland with its small, dispersed population behind. Yet no such equivalent arrangement exists within England, meaning that each region’s capital projects are all competing for the same pot of money as London, where the business case is always going to be easier to make because of the high density, relatively wealthy population.

Anyway, give your Pacer a pat on the bodyshell this evening - it may be the reason you can catch a train to work at all. And in any case it’ll be finally gone into retirement within 12 months.

mrmistoffelees 08-11-2019 10:51

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016461)
It's a Pacer train in the North if England, and yes it maybe 1980's, but that makes it no better. Its a bus on a track, even the bloody windows leak ! Unlimited money for Crossrail in London though....


Mmm the pacers that were meant to be phased out by (iirc) 2020 but will now be about till 2023 ish. Because, reasons.....

They’re atrocious and I refuse to use them. If I need to get to London or Heathrow I’ll take the TPE to York and connect from there rather than going to Darlington via pacer

tweetiepooh 08-11-2019 11:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
And it's all the fault of <fill party name here> and will be fixed by <fill party name here>.

papa smurf 08-11-2019 11:13

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Looking at the papers this morning it's seems that the message from senior labour party members is vote tory to avoid a national disaster.

jfman 08-11-2019 11:32

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36016474)
Looking at the papers this morning it's seems that the message from senior labour party members is vote tory to avoid a national disaster.

Depends how you define senior I suppose.

The papers don’t appear to afford the same coverage to the Rt. Hon. Kenneth Clarke QC. A man who has held genuinely senior positions in Government saying he can’t bring himself to vote Tory.

denphone 08-11-2019 11:39

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016475)
Depends how you define senior I suppose.

The papers don’t appear to afford the same coverage to the Rt. Hon. Kenneth Clarke QC. A man who has held genuinely senior positions in Government saying he can’t bring himself to vote Tory.

There will be many who will have voted both Labour and Conservative in the past who will be considering exactly the same train of thought.

papa smurf 08-11-2019 11:57

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016475)
Depends how you define senior I suppose.

The papers don’t appear to afford the same coverage to the Rt. Hon. Kenneth Clarke QC. A man who has held genuinely senior positions in Government saying he can’t bring himself to vote Tory.

Ken Clarke did not say he “won’t vote for the Conservatives.” He did say that it was a possibility that he would not, but that it would depend on the campaign the Conservative party ran, and that he did not expect them to run a campaign which would cost them his vote.

https://fullfact.org/news/abbott-media-bias/

denphone 08-11-2019 12:37

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn to face off in live BBC debate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50347661

Quote:

Also a seven-way podium debate will also take place between senior figures from the UK's major political parties on 29 November, live from Cardiff.

OLD BOY 08-11-2019 12:56

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016454)
I'm stood on a delayed 1970s overcrowded, overpriced, failed heating train this morning, going nowhere slowly. One of many areas where the private sector has failed us (they of course, are doing quite well out of it !)

The economy isn't working well, and will be worse if those self centered idiots get another 5 years. Borrowing not seen since the 1970s is planned by this Govt., sublime to the ridiculous... Austerity was for nothing, has caused huge uneeded damage and solved nothing.

Austerity was not for nothing. Yes, it was painful, but it brought our deficit down to much more sustainable levels. Only now can we think of spending more, because we have room to maneouvre.

Sorry to hear about your delayed train. You should have been on the planet when the railways were a nationalised industry. Not only were they often late and overcrowded, but they were filthy too, and their curled up sandwiches were legendary. :sick:

jfman 08-11-2019 13:24

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36016491)
Austerity was not for nothing. Yes, it was painful, but it brought our deficit down to much more sustainable levels. Only now can we think of spending more, because we have room to maneouvre.

Sorry to hear about your delayed train. You should have been on the planet when the railways were a nationalised industry. Not only were they often late and overcrowded, but they were filthy too, and their curled up sandwiches were legendary. :sick:

Austerity evidently was for nothing. Our country is in more debt than at any point in history, and despite their extraordinary attack on the poor the Conservatives have still not balanced the books.

We have never had more people in unstable employment, or more “working poor” since industrialisation, inequality has never been higher. The fifth richest country in the world with millions of people resorting to food bank use. Public services are deteriorating.

You are fooling absolutely no-one with your party political broadcasts form the Conservative Party.

Apologies I forgot selling off the family silver on the cheap. Royal Mail privatisation being the most recent example.

Carth 08-11-2019 13:51

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Things were much better way back when I was a lad . . .

There were more jobs than workers to fill them, many people were 'poor' but spent their meager earnings wisely and not on the latest phone, we had milk delivered to our doorstep, the postman usually brought letters not junk mail, schools didn't need to spend thousands on laptops for everyone, hardly anyone got offended by being called silly names, we were happy with our coal fires and single glazed steel frame windows, if you were lucky enough to have a car you could fix it yourself, hard drugs were explicitly for the rich and famous (we had to get by with homegrown), and kids used to be playing outdoors, and much much more . .

Yep, much better off I tell ya :p:

jfman 08-11-2019 14:32

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016500)
Things were much better way back when I was a lad . . .

There were more jobs than workers to fill them, many people were 'poor' but spent their meager earnings wisely and not on the latest phone, we had milk delivered to our doorstep, the postman usually brought letters not junk mail, schools didn't need to spend thousands on laptops for everyone, hardly anyone got offended by being called silly names, we were happy with our coal fires and single glazed steel frame windows, if you were lucky enough to have a car you could fix it yourself, hard drugs were explicitly for the rich and famous (we had to get by with homegrown), and kids used to be playing outdoors, and much much more . .

Yep, much better off I tell ya :p:

Everything was in public ownership :D

papa smurf 08-11-2019 14:38

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016505)
Everything was in public ownership :D

And they were all on strike.

Carth 08-11-2019 15:01

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
and footballers weren't millionaires, police could safely clip you round the ear, and there was more than one bus a day

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 15:51

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
I challenge those who say they will vote Labour to justify how they can do this in the face of rank antisemitism from Corbyn right across his supporting cohort.
"Anyone but Boris" still potentially puts a bunch of terrorist lovers into power.

jfman 08-11-2019 16:18

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016510)
I challenge those who say they will vote Labour to justify how they can do this in the face of rank antisemitism from Corbyn right across his supporting cohort.
"Anyone but Boris" still potentially puts a bunch of terrorist lovers into power.

Because I don't accept that thinking the Palestinians are entitled to a state on land they've lived on for thousands of years is anti-Semitism?

Chris 08-11-2019 16:22

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016515)
Because I don't accept that thinking the Palestinians are entitled to a state on land they've lived on for thousands of years is anti-Semitism?

I’m pretty sure someone who watches the news as closely as you do is well aware that the basic belief in a Palestinian state is not what is being labelled as anti Semitic.

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 16:24

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016515)
Because I don't accept that thinking the Palestinians are entitled to a state on land they've lived on for thousands of years is anti-Semitism?

If that was the only question, it would be fine. But you can see what's coming out of the nasty Momentum woodwork by the number of Labour would-bes giving up their candidature. Corbyn has driven out at least two Jewish MPs and the bile that they receive in their social media is testament to what his cohort supports.

Are you seriously in line with that lot?

Mr K 08-11-2019 17:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016519)
If that was the only question, it would be fine. But you can see what's coming out of the nasty Momentum woodwork by the number of Labour would-bes giving up their candidature. Corbyn has driven out at least two Jewish MPs and the bile that they receive in their social media is testament to what his cohort supports.

Are you seriously in line with that lot?

And the Islamophobia in the Tory party can safely be the ignored? Seem to remember all the potential Tory leader candidates agreeing to an independent investigation, all gone quiet on that!

jfman 08-11-2019 17:17

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016518)
I’m pretty sure someone who watches the news as closely as you do is well aware that the basic belief in a Palestinian state is not what is being labelled as anti Semitic.

It's fundamentally why Jeremy Corbyn is, yes. While he has had dialogue with obvious terrorist organisations I'm not sure that's worthy of condemnation. We only have to look a short distance across the water to see how communities can transform through dialogue, despite a precarious tension.

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 17:28

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36016524)
And the Islamophobia in the Tory party can safely be the ignored? Seem to remember all the potential Tory leader candidates agreeing to an independent investigation, all gone quiet on that!

... and what Islamophobia would that be and has it driven any Muslims out of the MP list?

Doesn't alter the disgraceful facts about the Labour Party.

jfman 08-11-2019 17:35

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016526)
... and what Islamophobia would that be and has it driven any Muslims out of the MP list?

Doesn't alter the disgraceful facts about the Labour Party.

Nonsense. This is just a ruse to deflect from ten years of Conservative failure. It works because the media peddle it.

denphone 08-11-2019 17:40

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016526)
... and what Islamophobia would that be and has it driven any Muslims out of the MP list?

Doesn't alter the disgraceful facts about the Labour Party.

This Islamophobia if you care to look as yes l agree with you on Anti-Semitism as that is just as bad in the Labour Party as both major parties need to get their house in order but seem totally incapable of doing it..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47454993

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...after-activist

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...try-blind-spot

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 18:01

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Baroness Warsi sides with the Palestinians - no surprise really because of her ethnic affiliation. She made a point of asking a question about Parliament recognising Palestine as a state. Really nothing to do with the UK but clearly bias from her ethnicity. Then those who disagree with her position are Islamophobes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/h...lords-29634553

jfman 08-11-2019 18:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016532)
Baroness Warsi sides with the Palestinians - no surprise really because of her ethnic affiliation. She made a point of asking a question about Parliament recognising Palestine as a state. Really nothing to do with the UK but clearly bias from her ethnicity. Then those who disagree with her position are Islamophobes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/h...lords-29634553

"Sides with the Palestinians" for a country so obsessed by our own sovereignty our apparent will to deny that to other people is somewhat perplexing.

Chris 08-11-2019 18:11

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
I think a two-state solution is the only way to resolve the problem, but unfortunately Arafat and others lost their best chance to achieve that by refusing to drop daft demands that Israel could never possibly agree to, such as the right of return for the descendants of displaced Palestinians. Whatever the rights or wrongs at play, resettling all those people in the land would De facto end the Israeli state from day one.

I do not, however, subscribe to the monstering the State of Israel gets at the hands of the British Left, nor the anti-Semitic abuse British Jews get from the Left when they dare to speak up for Israel as a legitimate state. It is the abuse of those who believe in Israel that is anti Semitic, and sadly far too many of Corbyn’s cheerleaders are engaged in it.

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 18:42

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016534)
"Sides with the Palestinians" for a country so obsessed by our own sovereignty our apparent will to deny that to other people is somewhat perplexing.

There you go. Nobody here is denying sovereignty for other people; this mini-discussion is about Warsi trying to promote regional sovereignty from her position in the UK and then raising accusations of Islamophobia when she gets criticised.

nomadking 08-11-2019 18:54

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016515)
Because I don't accept that thinking the Palestinians are entitled to a state on land they've lived on for thousands of years is anti-Semitism?

The Jews have lived there for thousands of years. That is historical fact.


I have no problem with them saying that, it is the manner and degree that is totally obnoxious.


For those that claim it's only a handful, they're wrong. These examples are only the ones caught out. Many more have the same opinions, but haven't said so in such a public manner, or simply haven't yet been uncovered.

jfman 08-11-2019 19:22

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36016547)
The Jews have lived there for thousands of years. That is historical fact.

I have no problem with them saying that, it is the manner and degree that is totally obnoxious.

For those that claim it's only a handful, they're wrong. These examples are only the ones caught out. Many more have the same opinions, but haven't said so in such a public manner, or simply haven't yet been uncovered.

So in the absolute lack of evidence you are just condemning people you aren’t politically aligned with.

That’s like saying there are “many more” Islamophobes in the Conservative Party they just haven’t been caught yet, or many more xenophobes voted for Brexit they just know when to keep quiet.

As we all know it’s a big red herring I’ll move back to domestic issues

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...s-under-tories

More evidence of profits being taken out of the NHS by chronically under resourcing it.

nomadking 08-11-2019 19:56

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016553)
So in the absolute lack of evidence you are just condemning people you aren’t politically aligned with.

That’s like saying there are “many more” Islamophobes in the Conservative Party they just haven’t been caught yet, or many more xenophobes voted for Brexit they just know when to keep quiet.

As with many a situation, people go from undiscovered to uncovered. They existed before, just it wasn't out in the open. Other in the Labour party, do and have given support to those making the statements. Again some publicly, but most in private or not out loud.


Most, it not all, of this "Islamophobia" is directed at the real, actual actions of Muslims, eg Muslim(ie not Asian) sex gangs. The people doing most to spread "hatred" of Muslims, are Muslims themselves. Just because only x thousand went off to join ISIS, doesn't mean thousands more aren't still in this country that support them. Just look at the polls that expressed support for Bin Laden after 9/11. Just look at the the number of people that went off to join him as a result. Why should there be anything wrong with criticising such behaviour and wider support of that behaviour?

Sephiroth 08-11-2019 20:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36016556)
As with many a situation, people go from undiscovered to uncovered. They existed before, just it wasn't out in the open. Other in the Labour party, do and have given support to those making the statements. Again some publicly, but most in private or not out loud.


Most, it not all, of this "Islamophobia" is directed at the real, actual actions of Muslims, eg Muslim(ie not Asian) sex gangs. The people doing most to spread "hatred" of Muslims, are Muslims themselves. Just because only x thousand went off to join ISIS, doesn't mean thousands more aren't still in this country that support them. Just look at the polls that expressed support for Bin Laden after 9/11. Just look at the the number of people that went off to join him as a result. Why should there be anything wrong with criticising such behaviour and wider support of that behaviour?

Which biased people like Warsi then call "Islamophobia".

TheDaddy 09-11-2019 03:24

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36016518)
I’m pretty sure someone who watches the news as closely as you do is well aware that the basic belief in a Palestinian state is not what is being labelled as anti Semitic.

Pretty sure the zionists tried to have any criticism of Israel classed as anti Semitic a while back...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016532)
Baroness Warsi sides with the Palestinians - no surprise really because of her ethnic affiliation. She made a point of asking a question about Parliament recognising Palestine as a state. Really nothing to do with the UK but clearly bias from her ethnicity. Then those who disagree with her position are Islamophobes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/h...lords-29634553

Her ethinc affiliation? Pakistan :confused:

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 08:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36016570)
Pretty sure the zionists tried to have any criticism of Israel classed as anti Semitic a while back...



Her ethinc affiliation? Pakistan :confused:

I think you know what I mean.

Maggy 09-11-2019 09:02

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Anyway I hope we are all making sure that everyone in their household who is eligible to vote is registered to vote?

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 09:11

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36016572)
Anyway I hope we are all making sure that everyone in their household who is eligible to vote is registered to vote?

Why?

Carth 09-11-2019 09:24

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36016572)
Anyway I hope we are all making sure that everyone in their household who is eligible to vote is registered to vote?

Here we go then, an example of what's probably happening in 65% of UK homes:

Me - undecided on my vote but want to leave the EU.
Wife - busy wondering which shite to record off the TV later
Daughter - why is facebook so slooooww today
2 cats - feed me
dog - *woof* (ball) *wags tail*

jfman 09-11-2019 10:25

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36016556)
Most, it not all, of this "Islamophobia" is directed at the real, actual actions of Muslims, eg Muslim(ie not Asian) sex gangs. The people doing most to spread "hatred" of Muslims, are Muslims themselves. Just because only x thousand went off to join ISIS, doesn't mean thousands more aren't still in this country that support them. Just look at the polls that expressed support for Bin Laden after 9/11. Just look at the the number of people that went off to join him as a result. Why should there be anything wrong with criticising such behaviour and wider support of that behaviour?

Really? My local corner shop owner neither committed the 9/11 attacks, nor has he been convicted of or accused of grooming.

Your assertion is to more valid than saying anti-Semitism has it’s roots in the Israeli Defence Force using helicopter gun ships and firing missiles in civilian areas.

There’s a billion Muslims on the planet. Ignoring those who were actually fighting over territory, a few thousand here and there is similar to comparing Christianity to Ku Klux Klan membership.

Carth 09-11-2019 10:57

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
The Multicultural idea doesn't work, has never worked, and is the strange fantasy of a future wherein everyone holds hands and never ever has a bad word to say about how others live their lives.

and if people think I'm talking crap, just look around your local area and see the separate 'communities' that have sprung up, each with a wary and suspicious eye on each other.

No I'm not racist, I'm realist :p:

ianch99 09-11-2019 11:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016532)
Baroness Warsi sides with the Palestinians - no surprise really because of her ethnic affiliation. She made a point of asking a question about Parliament recognising Palestine as a state. Really nothing to do with the UK but clearly bias from her ethnicity. Then those who disagree with her position are Islamophobes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/h...lords-29634553

Your comments are puzzling. She supports the Palestinians' right to a nation state because she feels it is the right thing to do. Her "ethnic affiliation", whatever that is, is irrelevant.

I don't see you complain when those of Jewish "ethnic affiliation" support the state of Israel ..

---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016575)
Why?

Obvious, to stop the Tories :)

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 11:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016580)
The Multicultural idea doesn't work, has never worked, and is the strange fantasy of a future wherein everyone holds hands and never ever has a bad word to say about how others live their lives.

and if people think I'm talking crap, just look around your local area and see the separate 'communities' that have sprung up, each with a wary and suspicious eye on each other.

No I'm not racist, I'm realist :p:

Quite right.

nomadking 09-11-2019 12:43

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016580)
The Multicultural idea doesn't work, has never worked, and is the strange fantasy of a future wherein everyone holds hands and never ever has a bad word to say about how others live their lives.

and if people think I'm talking crap, just look around your local area and see the separate 'communities' that have sprung up, each with a wary and suspicious eye on each other.

No I'm not racist, I'm realist :p:

The multicultural idea only works where there is a low number of people in those other cultures. The low numbers force them to mingle a lot more. It's when the numbers increase it becomes viable to separate and close off and have their own community centres etc. The "community" becomes one defined by race/religion, rather than simply people living in a particular area. Just look at the number of race/religion specific "communty" centres that are around you. It's gone from having centres for people living in area X, to ones of people of race/religion Y. How is not racist by having those race/religion specific centres?

Carth 09-11-2019 12:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
I just said I'm not racist, I've got no idea how they think . . but if people isolate themselves there's probably a reason for it

Hugh 09-11-2019 13:38

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50351861

Quote:

The Conservatives say they will deliver 6,000 more GPs in England by 2024-25 to increase appointments for patients, if they win the election.

They claim they will reach that target by training 3,000 new GPs and finding another 3,000 through international recruitment and better retention.

However, Health Secretary Matt Hancock said a previous Tory pledge to recruit 5,000 GPs by 2020 had not been met.
https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcse...l-practitioner
Quote:

What do I need to do to become a general practitioner?

You can get into this job through a university course.

You'll need to complete:

a 5-year degree in medicine, recognised by the General Medical Council
a 2-year foundation course of general training
a 3-year specialist training course in general practice
If you already have a degree in a science subject (minimum upper second), you could take an accelerated 4-year graduate entry programme.

You may be able to join a 6-year degree course in medicine if you have no science qualifications. This includes a one-year pre-medical or foundation year.
3,000 more trained GPs in 5 years, but it takes either 9, 10, or 11 years to be a fully trained GP (depending which route you take - either a 4/5/6 year medical degree, then 5 more years of specialist training).

Update - just realised that in fact they would need to be trained in 4 years, as the next intake will be in September 2020 for the 20/21 Academic year.

???

jfman 09-11-2019 13:43

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016606)
I just said I'm not racist, I've got no idea how they think . . but if people isolate themselves there's probably a reason for it

Like the ex-pats on the Costa del Sol?

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36016609)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50351861

https://www.ucas.com/ucas/after-gcse...l-practitioner

3,000 more trained GPs in 5 years, but it takes either 9, 10, or 11 years to be a fully trained GP (depending which route you take - either a 4/5/6 year medical degree, then 5 more years of specialist training).

???

It’s almost as if they’re making it up.

denphone 09-11-2019 13:46

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016611)

It’s almost as if they’re making it up.

Words and pledges are easy to say but actions well we are still waiting on that score..

Carth 09-11-2019 13:59

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016611)
Like the ex-pats on the Costa del Sol?

No idea mate, just seems like you've flown another pointless question in from Jupiter :p:

papa smurf 09-11-2019 14:24

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Jeremy Corbyn's dirty dozen: The 12 would-be Labour MPs who have ALL been mired in controversy in just 24 hours - from calling a Jewish councillor a 'Shylock' to threatening to 'put a gun to Theresa May's head'

It makes interesting reading.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntroversy.html



Had my first local candidate at the door earlier [Labour party].

Carth 09-11-2019 14:31

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36016620)
Jeremy [B]
Had my first local candidate at the door earlier [Labour party].

You lucky sod, I'm still waiting patiently armed with custard pies :D

papa smurf 09-11-2019 14:36

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36016621)
You lucky sod, I'm still waiting patiently armed with custard pies :D

I'm saving my disdain for the lib dumb, the air will be blue, they will be F word savvy by the time they leave.

Labour are killing themselves off,i'm content to leave them to it.

jfman 09-11-2019 17:39

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Just to prove how much the Conservatives hate the poor, first we have Jacob "Too Clever to Die in a Fire" Rees-Mogg now the flooding in Yorkshire "isn't a national emergency" according to the Prime Minister.

Charming really.

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 17:47

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016641)
Just to prove how much the Conservatives hate the poor, first we have Jacob "Too Clever to Die in a Fire" Rees-Mogg now the flooding in Yorkshire "isn't a national emergency" according to the Prime Minister.

Charming really.

I'm sorry to say that you're getting to be rather annoying with you half-truths.

By all means call JRM "insensitive" or "detached from reality" but to ascribe to him and every Conservative (including me) as "hating the poor" is going too far.

On your second point, is Yorkshire national or local/regional? You're seriously bending your credibility. A pity because I sometimes enjoy your writings.

jfman 09-11-2019 17:53

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016644)
I'm sorry to say that you're getting to be rather annoying with you half-truths.

By all means call JRM "insensitive" or "detached from reality" but to ascribe to him and every Conservative (including me) as "hating the poor" is going too far.

On your second point, is Yorkshire national or local/regional? You're seriously bending your credibility. A pity because I sometimes enjoy your writings.

We both know “national emergency” relates to the movement or utilisation of Government resources to respond to an event. The National is the level of the response, not the geography affected. With serious risk to life and property across English regions, I’m not sure we should hold back mobilising until it reaches the South East.

I’m sure flooding in the South East would be classified as a “national emergency”.

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 18:05

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016646)
We both know “national emergency” relates to the movement or utilisation of Government resources to respond to an event. The National is the level of the response, not the geography affected. With serious risk to life and property across English regions, I’m not sure we should hold back mobilising until it reaches the South East.

I’m sure flooding in the South East would be classified as a “national emergency”.

"Regional civil emergency" would be the correct term.

By jumping it up to "National Emergency" and then deriding the PM for this distinction you become less credible. I am disappointed.

jfman 09-11-2019 18:53

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016647)
"Regional civil emergency" would be the correct term.

By jumping it up to "National Emergency" and then deriding the PM for this distinction you become less credible. I am disappointed.

I'm not even certain Boris considers the event that serious. A bit of rain outside the M25.

Mr K 09-11-2019 19:04

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016649)
I'm not even certain Boris considers the event that serious. A bit of rain outside the M25.

That new runway just outside the M25, that he was going to lie down in front of the bulldozers of, might cause him more problems with his constituents ;)

nomadking 09-11-2019 19:28

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
So are there any other examples of where a national emergency has been declared in this sort of situation?

Quote:

The UK is affected by natural hazards, such as flooding, heatwaves and wildfires, which can cause significant human, economic, environmental
and infrastructure damage. Emergency planning for natural hazards is
legislated for under the Civil Contingencies Act (2004), which puts the
onus on local emergency responders
to plan for civil emergencies.

Hugh 09-11-2019 19:29

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016647)
"Regional civil emergency" would be the correct term.

By jumping it up to "National Emergency" and then deriding the PM for this distinction you become less credible. I am disappointed.

Looks fairly "National" to me.. (from the Government website).

btw, it was the PM who said it wasn’t a national emergency...
Quote:

"But in the end," he added, "you've got to face the reality that places like this are vulnerable to flooding - we're going to see more of it."

The situation "is not looking like something we need to escalate to the level of a national emergency", the PM said.

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 19:32

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36016654)
Looks fairly "National" to me.. (from the Government website).

btw, it was the PM who said it wasn’t a national emergency...

https://flood-warning-information.se...ov.uk/warnings

So definitely not a National Emergency.

Hugh 09-11-2019 19:34

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016655)
So definitely not a National Emergency.

Because BJ said it wasn’t?

He’s not exactly renowned for his veracity, is he?

Pierre 09-11-2019 19:40

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36016641)
Just to prove how much the Conservatives hate the poor, first we have Jacob "Too Clever to Die in a Fire" Rees-Mogg now the flooding in Yorkshire "isn't a national emergency" according to the Prime Minister.

Charming really.

Well they’re right on both counts.

JRB was speaking from a personal perspective, and I agree with him.

The flooding up here isn’t a National emergency, we all know that flooding is only a major issue in the south.

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 19:42

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36016656)
Because BJ said it wasn’t?

He’s not exactly renowned for his veracity, is he?

Because the map is red in a region and only amber elsewhere.
Did you not see that?

Carth 09-11-2019 19:43

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Has Corbyn or that Lib Dem woman (can't remember her name, swinton or something) mentioned it at all?

Sephiroth 09-11-2019 19:52

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Yeah - Corbyn's there doing the rounds.

Carth 09-11-2019 20:08

Re: Election 2019, Week 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36016661)
Yeah - Corbyn's there doing the rounds.

Photo shoot in waders and oilskin?

Wouldn't surprise me if he now pledges to dredge the Bristol channel and create 700 million sand bags in order to be ready for the next one ;)


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