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Well he tells it as he sees it. I must agree with him though.

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That Commons Rule book looks an absolute disaster for Britain - what the hell is May thinking of here... Davis says it would hand large swathes of our Economy to the EU.... and we have no say on policies they could introduce in the future, this is not leaving the EU it's handing them more power, surely no Remainer would have this shit ?

Sorry but May has to go, she has completely lost the plot here, a weak and feeble thicko!

---------- Post added at 01:54 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------

May's letter of response back to David Davis:-

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...12436389273605

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It was inevitable and he won't be the last.

---------- Post added at 04:50 ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 ----------

Pretty sure a certain someone will come along soon to defend her to the hilt no matter what.

---------- Post added at 04:51 ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 ----------

Beware Brutus might strike again before long Andrew.

---------- Post added at 04:52 ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 ----------

Most definitely as politicians are clever at picking the most opportune moment.

---------- Post added at 04:54 ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 ----------

The General election result did that.

---------- Post added at 04:57 ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 ----------

In the old days this country was extremely good at organising things but sadly we could not organise a piss up in a brewery now and that pains me.

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The person heading Vote Leave, Dominic Cummings, made it a strategy not to have a plan for leaving as he didn't want the debate into specifics. That meant any trade-off would not be debated and allow them to unite different visions of Brexit.

In the end they didn't have any particular vision for Brexit and neither did Remain. So here we are.

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It's OK though as any sensible government would work to establish its' position on leaving the EU, get all the i's dotted and t's crossed, make sure there's no distracting elections in the way and then invoke article 50, handing over the governments position to the EU at that point. That gives a good clear 2 years of negotiation with a clear starting point and a desired end point.

Oh wait....

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What does the EU want from all this? Apart from our money, to tell us what we can and cannot do, and to send us further hordes of people, especially criminals, from the likes of Turkey, Albania, and Ukraine?

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Jacob Rees-Mogg on LBC this morning...

Was asked if he would vote in a No confidence motion against PM, said he would not, his beef was with the policy, was asked if he felt same as Boris Iohnson and the chequers Brexit strategy was a “Polished turd”, said he wouldn’t use that kind of terminology, was asked what he would use, said “Not Brexit.”.

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The EU bosses do not want to make it easy for any country to leave their cabal because that threatens their power and income.

Leaders of poorer EU countries do not want the UK to leave as that would mean a drop in the free money they are receiving.

So any arrangement for the UK to leave must be seen to punish at least financially to put other countries off the idea of leaving.

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Well, considering none of those countries are in the EU, probably not...

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BREAKING: Dominic Raab New Brexit Secretary.

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Any agreement with the EU as an entity includes any countries current AND future and any countries they have an agreement with. That includes any special privileges that the EU hands out with regards visa requirements.

April 2018

Nov 1017

Just look at the changes in the last 20 years.


Still leaves the central question of what does the EU want from us?

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I think most Brexiteers just wanted to leave on WTO terms.

The idea of having an agreement to secure tariff free, frictionless trade with the EU was a good one, but this was more complicated than a simple 'Brexit', but unfortunately it looks like it was doomed to failure from the start.

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I think you are now being revisionist based on where it looks like we will now end up. People voted Leave with a variety of outcomes in mind. Some would welcome Mrs May's 'soft-ish" Brexit although it almost certainly will be made "softer" once it undergoes the to's & fro's of EU negotiations.

The hard Brexit you now seek was never put before the voters by the official Leave campaign:

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/campaign.html

It is disingenuous to now claim that Leavers, en-masse, wanted a hard Brexit under WTO rules with all the economic damage that would deliver.

A lot of Leavers did not vote to be poorer and they were promised they would not be.

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Vote to be poorer is a Remainer made up myth.

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Seems Boris has resigned ...

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Finally

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)
 

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)
 

A governing party riven by civil war has just pressed their own self destruct button..

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exactly and making General Election closer by the day

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And what is Corbyn doing? Fixing the Bus Timetables :dozey:

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Shambolic incompetence across the government and the opposition that certainly takes some doing....:td::(

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cant wait for the day Corbyn goes as labour leader

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Which might be sooner then you think..

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A spot of weeding on his allotment I’d imagine.

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The Tory MPs might as well trigger their leadership election and let's get it over with. Utter disaster of a government.

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I’m going to stick my neck out and predict that Boris is about to offer Gove a top job in return for his enthusiastic support in a leadership challenge. Look out for a leadership challenge from Boris within the next week or two.

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Sources are saying even more resignations are possible.

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Has anything in the past couple of years given us reason to believe Gove's view of Boris' incompetence has changed? Not sure, even with Gove's support, Boris would get 153 supporters in the Tory Parliamentary Party either.

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Two down more to follow if May doesn't bin this surrender of an agreement it's all upto her now on how much damage this does.

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A vote to leave clearly meant leaving the EU and all its institutions. I am absolutely positive that this is what the Brexiteers voted for. Making our own trade deals was an important part of that, so leaving the customs union was taken as read.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:02 ----------

Hardly. What Theresa May should do now is to admit that the government has failed to reach an agreement on a possible deal with the EU, and consequently, the negotiations are off. We will revert to WTO rules on Brexit Day.

In the meantime, she should advise the EU that we are happy to discuss any proposals they may have to smooth the way (including frictionless borders) provided that such proposals honour the result of the referendum.

Now that would be strong leadership.

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The BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg says Boris Johnson’s resignation may be followed by others.

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The EU will be surprised since we haven't started the proper talks on the agreement. :rolleyes:

The Government really is a disaster at the moment. Two years to each a starting point and even then it looks like it cannot survive. A British Citizen murdered quite possibly by a foreign state, and the foreign secretary resigns over Brexit the same day. We don't even know if the PM will survive in the job! Then what? The Brexiters who've spent the last two years avoiding giving any clue into what this great deal we would could be? They're going to take over despite doing nothing for the last two years?

Remember when the trade deal was going to the easiest thing in the world? That the EU will come to us begging for a deal? No clue at all.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

Tories think they have the 48 letters, question is do they have 158 MPs?

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l very much doubt it.

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Good riddance, he was an incompetent oaf by any standards. Carry on TM, you're doing a fantastic job ;)

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Oh, please! If the government had a decent majority and David Davis had a free hand, yes, it would have been straight forward.

The fact of the matter is that the remainers in the government and the opposition have put us in this position, droning on about soft Brexits, cliff edges and the importance of staying in the Customs Union when that defeats the whole object of Brexit.

As it happens, it now looks as though we will end up with WTO rules, which the majority of the electorate thought they were voting for anyway. Job done.

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ITV’s Robert Peston reckons Sir Graham Brady hasn’t (yet?) received the 48 letters that would trigger a confidence vote.

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No one forced them to call an election.

Why didn't the Brexiters in Government offer their own vision for Brexit? Cowards hiding behind May and blaming everyone without taking any responsibility themselves. Remainers said N.I would be an issue and that a trade deal was difficult and may involve being a rule taker without having any input on it. Dismissed as scaremongering by the people running away today.

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If you voted for Brexit you put us in this position. I knew this would be the response of Brexiters when this went pear shaped, blame everyone else.

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While there may be further resignations this weekend if May tries to cling to her so called start to a deal there will be no major activity party wise until next week. Right now it isn't only the UK doing a bit of panicking there is quite a bit on the continent as well and if they were all honest and stopped playing stupid games they would admit that no deal was going to be achieved as at least two members of the EU have from day one had a position of not agreeing any deal. The remain faction in the UK has spent two years doing everything to undermine the UK's position and then blaming the government for making no progress and still they continue and no doubt will right upto us leaving with no deal and of course it's not their fault it's the government or those who voted leave but never remain.

The EU looked at what was happening in the UK with the division which has been widened by numerous parties and figured they didn't need to do anything so they have spent the last two years rejecting everything and making demands and now it's all going to fall apart. When we do leave with no deal as now seems more likely it won't just be the UK that suffers economically it will be EU member states and given the already growing divisions and tensions within the EU (that have continued to worsen in the last couple of years despite remains opinion) this could bring the EU ever closer to collapse so well played remain and well played the EU arrogance and ignorance have once again triumphed.

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I am just loving the re-writing of history in real time. Donald Trump would be proud of you. I just pointed out where the Leave campaign said the opposite and the campaign never mentioned they wanted a Hard Brexit as a preferred aim and you keep saying that they wanted one all along and what's more, most people wanted it as well.

And, and this is the best bit, it's all everyone else's fault. I am literally in hysterics here. What do you do for an encore?

Jobs gone more the like ..

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Most Brexiteers were not anticipating a cosy deal with Brussels. Just a normal trade deal like for any other country.

The result of the referendum was to leave the EU. Tell you what, let's just leave.

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This is the fault of the entire government in this country, opposition too. Yet it’s somehow never the fault of the Brexit lot is it? Always an excuse. :rolleyes:

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Oh great here cometh the other great pro EU oracle who like so many others is utterly clueless WAKE UP!!!!! there isn't and never was a soft, hard or medium rare brexit the rules of the EU as stated in article 50 only allow for total exit from the EU. Despite what so many in remain think this situation doesn't end well for anybody not the UK or the EU both will suffer economic consequences because of this ridiculous pantomime and it will be the workers both here and on the continent who pay for this debacle. Lets not even discuss the irony of a leave voter being more concerned about damage on the continent then the so called EU supporters just another comedic element to this entire sorry situation who could have believed that so much incompetence and complacency on both sides would carry on as long as it has.

Oh grow up damien I'm hardly lauding the handling by the leave side am i I've said the fault is on all sides but remain cannot just pretend that two years of constant challenges and undermining rhetoric hasn't played a part or are you really that stupid and arrogant.

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If you’re going to tell other people to grow up it’s best if you don’t follow it with personal insults. :D

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Anyway moving on.

May is at the ‘22 committee so we’ll see what happens when she gets out

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Have to count the knives in her back.:D

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Insults are well deserved in this situation and no shortage of deserving candidates this is not a time to be superior it's a damn tradegy and as much as some might like to put it all onto the UK government that's not reality both sides with their stupid approaches to this have both created this utter mess.

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l told you Brutus has many friends willing to help him.:D

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wasn't May's slogan at election coalition of chaos she just forget to say it was her that lead it

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Rumours they have the numbers to trigger a contest, but we’ll see.

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Strong and stable if l righty remember was her great slogan and well l will leave it to others to form their opinion of that great slogan.

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her slogan against labour was coalition of chaos she just meant wrong party Den ;)

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Always time for a bit of Carrying On :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/2.jpg

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No, you misunderstand.

The page you linked to said:

'We should negotiate a new UK-EU deal based on free trade and friendly cooperation. We end the supremacy of EU law. We regain control'.

I think what most Brexiteers had in mind was a trade deal such as we are seeking from other countries, not the belt and braces job that the government have been talking about for the last couple of years.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

Well let's see if she walks out of her meeting with some scalps or whether they stretcher her out before you jump to conclusions about strength and stability. It's just possible she's pulled a flanker!

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At the moment they've said they do not have the votes to trigger a leadership contest but there are 80 MPs at the Eurosceptic ERG group tonight so if they decided to go then we'll see.

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tbf she's still there Den, whilst the Brexiters around her crumble. She campaigned for Remain and is trying to make the best of a bad job. Country before party/career, quite right too.

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She is still there as to put it bluntly the possible candidates to replace her are a pretty poor lot IMO Mr K thus for many Conservatives its better the devil you know rather then the devil you don't know.

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Jeremy Hunt to be new home secretary according to lbc

now breaking news on sky news

https://news.sky.com/story/live-ther...quits-11430763

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[B]No, they are not - I would remind you of the specific point about this in the CF T&Cs.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showpost.php?p=35295110

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I can hear screams of joy coming from every NHS hospital corridor tonight thanks to this....

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

Matt Hancock is new Health Secretary

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me to he was very bad health secretary

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Jeremy Wright new Culture Secretary.

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Noone is to blame for anything - you cannot blame people for holding a democratic choice!!!

I told you over the weekend that we are not playing the blame game - so pack it in, I do not want to see posts like this again.

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Oh, I misunderstand? Ok ...

Can you explain how a "new UK-EU deal based on free trade " is the same thing as the WTO rules-based Hard Brexit you now say the Leavers all voted for?

This should be good :)

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Seems we need a Reminder of the rules of this topic.

I will NOT tolerate anybody causing provocation.



---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

64% of Britains don't trust Theresa May in Brexit negotiations - Sky News Data Poll suggests and just 22% Trust her to get the best possible deal.

You need to go May.

Geoffrey Cox appointed Attorney General.

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Lol not a single addressing of the points i made just more silliness and for the record while some may be internet brave I'm more then happy to meet anyone face to face and repeat any comment I've made as I've done in the past. I'll remain logged in for one more day if anyone wants to arrange anything.

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I haven't posted on here for almost a week because . . . well to be frank, many people (myself included) in this and the previous thread are acting almost exactly the same as those useless, clueless, bickering, incompetent MP's that we all deride and shout 'good riddance' to :knock:

We all seem to know what's best for everyone else, but we don't, because we all have different circumstances, political ideals, occupations, localities etc etc.

I voted not to 'go in' in the first place and still feel the same.
At the time of the 'vote' I had no ideas about hard brexits, soft brexits, semi brexits, Norwegian brexits or any other kind of brexit . . I just wanted out.

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Well the new health secretary Matt Hancock certainly cannot be as bad as the slippery Jeremy Hunt because as soon as there was a crisis he would do his disappearing act off to some foreign bolthole.

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And who would you replace her with? as the potential candidates are even more unpopular then the PM.

---------- Post added at 05:20 ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 ----------

l voted remain but accepted the referendum result as democracy and what it entails should be respected but sadly since the referendum result its sadly been a complete omnishambles and that's being rather kind.

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I really don't think posts like this are helpful Rizzy - Please don't post objectionable stuff like this . I can relate to why you got upset and this has now been addressed.

Not one of the 17.4 Million voters of leaving the EU is to blame for the current shambles we are seeing today, so we know who levied that blame and they have been told in no uncertain terms that they will not do such a thing a again because they are fundamentally wrong and out of order.

It's the same nonsense over again of accusing one side of doing something they should not have done, when all they were doing were exercising their democratic right to vote one way or the other. But this blame crap will stop.

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So May survived yesterday and after Boris there were a couple of minor resignations but no great revolt yet or a leadership challenge.

I wonder if it's in May's interest in intentionally spark a challenge though. Tory Party rules mean that if you've successfully won a confidence vote then you cannot be challenged for another year, a year which would take us past Brexit Day.

Does she really want to spent the next few months negotiating with the EU with the threat of a coup hanging over her head? Draw the poison now, put up or shut up style. If she gets though this period she'll end up with the starting point for a deal, a united Cabinet and be safe politically.

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Personally l don't think anybody is going to put their head above the parapet and lay down a challenge to her as who is going to come forward and possess the courage to do that?

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70% of Conservative Membership is said to be very very unhappy with May's Brexit strategy and her previous making red lines on certain aspects of Brexit, leaving CU, SM etc but now wants to apply a common rule book where the EU is still very much in control of our economy and we don't have any say or powers. Thus, we are a Vassal State, this is NOT what the electorate voted for.

She has lost her mind, she has to go, it should be a true Brexiteer at the helm, she is a Remainer and showing her true colours.

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The trouble there is two thirds of those in the cabinet voted remain at the referendum and l certainly can't see them allowing a Brexiteer becoming the party leader in a month of Sunday's.

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The Conservative Membership are only really important in a leadership election at which point May would already be out.

I don't understand why the common rulebook, regulatory alignment, is such a big deal anyway. UK businesses would mostly keep to EU regulation since the EU is, by far, the biggest single regulatory block we export too and given it's geographic proximity would remain so. Even if we reverted to WTO this would likely be the case. Other visions of Brexit had regulatory alignment as a prerequisite for any trade deal.

If the country is going to get obsessed over regulation of goods then any trade deal would be a pain since that's a key element.

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especially one that wants a hard Brexit and falling of a cliff edge the party that does that will be out of power for very long time indeed

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My reading of the common rulebook is that the aim is for a 'single market lite' where all goods produced for and by the UK market are, by default, good for the EU market too. For manufactured goods, not such a biggie as declarations of conformity cover this anyway (though there is the issue of who approves CE marking for example)

It's a much bigger deal in agriculture, where adherence to phytosanitary and veterinary standards are an issue and each shipment would require examination without a common standard. The northern irish dairy industry was very concerned and very noisy about this!

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The British electorate are generally a fairy moderate lot and thus don't like extremes of governance IMO..

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Isn't that going to be a given though? Why create the hassle of diverging regulation when you don't need to do so?

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Looks like Cameron's bête noir could be making a comeback:

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70% of the Conservatives dwindling membership equals 0.15% of the population. They're an archaic irrelevance. MPs want power and retain it more than anything else. Their principles will be quickly sidelined.

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Yes, I think you are right on that.

If she survives this round, she now has a supportive Cabinet, no longer has Boris to worry about and can basically take over the Brexit negotiations.

So after all the nonsense, she comes out stronger and more stable!

I have some concerns about TM's latest proposal, but we haven't seen the detail yet. I will get on board with it if I can see that we can still forge our own trade deals and we remain outside the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Free movement of people to live and work in this country also has to stop.

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Can you provide reliable statistics that showed this dwindling membership, instead of posting baseless information based on your usual negative soundbites. :rolleyes:

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Perhaps he could stand for Parliament again - 8th time lucky....:D

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https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...ervative-party
There you go Mick, I love some good stats ;)

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Not very reliable source is it, it looks dated, talks of UKIP doing well in next election. a .net domain...

Do better next time.. :rolleyes:

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From the Parliament website.

https://researchbriefings.parliament...ummary/SN05125
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/23.png

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BREAKING: U.S President Donald Trump weighs in on Boris resignation on the White House lawn: 'The UK certainly have a lot of things going on. Boris Johnson is a friend of mine. He has been very nice to me. Very supportive. Maybe we'll speak to him when I get over there. I like Boris Johnson. I've always liked him.'

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I'm sure they can go to the pub somewhere.

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And "accidentally" bump into Nigel. :D

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)
 

Ah, yes, but neither Boris nor Nigel have got to hold his hand yet.

---------- Post added at 13:51 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

So if Theresa ends up with the agreement she reached at Chequers being given the green light at Chequers, and it honours the red lines drawn up on customs, sovereignty and free movement, most people would be happy, non?

Would that include you, Den?

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That depends very much on what the end result is OB.

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It's possible that there will soon be a great many angry and disillusioned people out there, just imagine if many of the people who voted leave decided to join UKIP . . .

what a way to register another kick to the rear ends of the 'main' parties ;)

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And Assange...

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BREAKING: Trump's an Idiot (sorry, old news...). He probably just likes Bozza's hair do.

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Two Tory party vice chairs quit over Chequers plan.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44785797

https://www.ft.com/content/05df6226-...d-73e3d454535d

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I suppose, now that Boris, David, et al are liberated from the shackles of Theresa May's cabinet, they are now free to join cabinets around the world that are crying out for them to join their cabinets?

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Boris Johnson lied about EU safety regulation in his resignation letter

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...gnation-letter

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Just carrying on the theme of his Leave campaign. No surprises here ...

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And here we go conveniently forgetting the Remain camp lied as well.... :rolleyes:

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yes but Boris king liar

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You conveniently forget that the Remain camp was selling what was reality i.e. what you have now, tangible, real and quantifiable. The Leave campaign was selling what could be. BIG difference: one side was saying stay with what you see, the other was saying trust us and we will give you paradise. :rolleyes:

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I conveniently forget nothing. The Remain camp did not sell reality at all - there was no WW 3, there was no emergency budget on a leave result - there was no recession, so pray tell what reality they were selling?

Because it never came to be because it was project fear from the very beginning and we all know it was pure fiction as time went on.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Gee wizz - there are NO other politicians that lie ?

What the hell is this fixation on Boris... ? :erm: