Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It wasn't the wrong product to use. It. Quite simply wasn't.

Nothing indicating that the cladding was :

Illegal
Didn't meet standards
Wasn't adherent to building refs

The fact that a lesser specification panel was used than originally specified is totally irrelevant. The other panel would only have been suggested at the behest of the client.

Then it would have been ensured that it met all the standards and regulations.

This is also not a class war as Corbyn would like to promote. This cladding will have been used universally.
This why the current testing regime is helping no one.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It did meet standards, IF AND ONLY IF, certain precautions were taken with any design. That amounts to encasing the flammable insulation with non-flammable materials. Even then the restrictions are for insulation above 18m. As if buildings and/or floors below than 18m are any less of a problem. A 7 storey building could easily go up on flames in the same way where a fire starts on the 1st floor. 6 floors is still a lot of potential deaths.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I see Mayor Khan is quick to demand emergency measures for Kensington & Chelsea but has very little to say about Camden (or any of the other Labour boroughs) where a similarly catastrophic problem could so easily have arisen and the council seem to have done very little about it until the Grenfell Tower fire forced their hand.

This is pathetic party politics once again but just what you'd expect from him. If he's going to highlight local authority ineptitude there's plenty evidence in Labour run boroughs and he can't blame it all on the Tories.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

One of the councillors interviewed just now responded to the question as to why the residents have had their rent deducted yesterday with indignation that the question was even asked!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Well LBC had as tenant from Grenfell Towers on this morning saying Tenants had been ignored for years.

Another was having their rent stopped still.

And worse still when the tenants started a blog to say how bad things were there the council sent a letter threatening legal action, the councillors here systematically ignored their own tenants, which makes them rotten in my opinion.

Oblivious of which political party shameful.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yep both political parties are guilty not just there but in many places IMO.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes and the difficulty now with Kenisngton and Chelsea at a time when they now need leadership they are now rudderless.

So need somebody at the helm and soon.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Rumour is they could send be sending in commissioners in Kensington and Chelsea.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Just been on LBC that the minister involved is going to give them time to elect their own before any possible intervention.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Here is some more news from the scandal that is Grenfell Tower.

The Tenant Management Group commissioned its own fire report for £250.000 from an ex fireman who advised them under a loop hole not to tell the London Fire Brigade of its failings ,and because the council had set up a TMG it was also not subject to the freedom of information act.

Shortcut to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-failings.html

Also the head of the housing had his own property development company and was investigated twice.

Shortcut to: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...hment-10722834

Rock Feilding-Mellen was probed after Kensington and Chelsea Council approved a scheme to lease a library building to a prep school at which his children were on the waiting list.



Something very rotten in this borough.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

1) Payment of rent has nothing whatsoever to do with the council.
2) The renovations had nothing whatsoever to do with 2012.
3) The problems were with the design of the renovations, so nothing whatsoever to do with any fire safety report that had been done or would be done.

Pathetic nonsense.

Standing orders are the responsibility of the PAYER NOT THE PAYEE. It is up to the tenants to cancel them. Whoever receives the rent CANNOT. Direct debits are the other way around.

Are those on housing benefit going to have it stopped and their claim closed? Bet they're be happy they complained when they see the end result. Nothing but problems starting a new claim.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

We shall see a damming report that is not made available to the London Fire Brigade a consultant who is paid to tell the council to keep their mouth shut , the report could not be accessed by any freedom of information request.

He has obviously taken legal advice if I were you I would wait before declaring it pathetic , as it shines a light on the culture of secrecy in Kensington and Chelsea , this guy was prepared to hide a fire report from even the brigade that had to go in and rescue people if it went up.

And he was still their fire consultant when the building went up.!

Any luck he will get his collar felt .

Are you involved with the investigation yourself you seem to have inside information before any inquirey that it was definitely the renovations.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The issues were largely easily fixable or would be resolved by the renovations, so why the need to tell anybody? There was NO legal requirement to send it to anybody. Still absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with recent events. The tenant management organisation has nothing whatsoever to do with the council, especially councillors. It is separate from them.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Grenfell Tower illegal subletting amnesty announced by Sajid Javid


Grenfell Tower residents who were illegally subletting will not face prosecution, Communities Secretary Sajid Javid has said.

The Cabinet Minister said the move was guided by a concern that "loved ones still missing are identified".

The protection from prosecution applies to anyone coming to authorities with information about people who were in their flats at the time of the fire.

Anecdotal evidence from residents has indicated that people living in the tower block may have been unlawfully subletting their properties, and that they are reluctant to come forward and report others are missing because of the fear of reprisal.

http://news.sky.com/story/grenfell-t...javid-10934448

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

So how is this amnesty going to work? Will those there illegally be rehoused? Will those illegally subletting out their flat be allowed to get yet another flat?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes and yes I suspect.

Of course the media frenzy is ensuring that any shame and wrongdoing lies solely on the LA's shoulders, there's going to be no appetite to expose any wrongdoing by residents.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

i assume they just want them to come forward and let them know who was living there.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes they need to get the numbers sorted sadly.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

But the actual occupants of the flats at the time will be a mix of dead and alive. What happens in the case of live ones and the real tenant comes forward? What happens where a sub-letter simply turns up and claims a new home? How much about their illegal tenants will they know?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

if you sublet your flat to a third party don't you then become the landlord and then are responsible for fire safety standards :shrug:

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I thought perhaps that subletters might be responsible for rehousing their "tenants", but no they're not.
But.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Good point, but isn't it in the tenancy agreement that you can't sublet?

Will this also open the doors for false compensation claims for non-existant extended family members?

I'm not saying it will happen but it has to be a possibility.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Or if you sublet your flat, collect the housing benefit, and the rent. Makes you a criminal ****. But can't say that because the whole disaster is a class war, a conspiracy by the Tory elite to kill Corbyn lovers, and all residents were saints and everyone else are *******s .

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It has happened already a man is in police custody for false compensation claims for family he said died in the blaze.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

And it is people like that who make the genuine people that have suffered suffer more!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes thats true hopefully a custodial sentence will follow.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The survivors now have a list of demands via the BMELawyers4Grenfel (a team of black and minority ethnic lawyers who are supporting them).

One or two I kind of agree with, but some could lose them some support. Such as 'Confirmation in writing from the home secretary within 28 days that undocumented survivors are given full UK citizenship'.

Though I'm not sure they are in much of a position to demand anything, some of those demands are just out of order.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nse-to-tragedy

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Hmm, so a "team of black and minority ethnic lawyers" wants "A properly diverse expert panel to sit alongside the inquiry judge". :erm:

Pot, Kettle, Black ... :dozey:

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Don't see how that computes.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

As if they are the only one's with a crappy council that doesn't listen they have no right to demand anything but all the evidence be seen and heard. More i hear about some of these "victims" the more i think chancer out for everything they can grab and make out of this situation. Now racial positions are appearing in all this it's just going to get worse to be honest the government is screwed whatever happens and it has sod all to do with justice.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It's not 'victims' in quotes. There are in excess of 79 deaths, they've lost their homes, their relatives and their friends. Putting 'victims' in quotes as if they're not. There is a serious lack of decency and basic humanity on here sometimes.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

They want a black, woman, brought up on a council estate that happens to be a judge to be in charge, not only is it a pretty stupid request which if reversed (a white, man, from a rich family) would be righteously criticised by all it also ignores the fact that the judge they've got actually got to Cambridge on a scholarship and not because of wealth although it's possible he is rich and smart obviously, the two go hand in hand sometimes.

I tend to agree Damien but let's not forget there's already been one chancer arrested for making out he's a victim, I'd bet his not alone and when they're caught I hope it's a very large and heavy book that's thrown at them, people like him make it easier to dismiss the real victims

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

That was the sad part of this incident. There will be chancer that can pretend they are victims. So, government must be vigilant with that.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I also think there is over reaction to comments sometimes ;)

Those "demands" do not strike me as coming from families mourning their lost loved ones.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A synopsis wouldn't hurt. Tl;dr

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Putting it in quotes wasn't the best way of making the point as clearly there are victims here I'm aware of the death toll but like always there are now a group looking to profit off of this tradegy that were involved but are not real victims of this. We now have the race card as well as the class card being played here by people that are looking to exploit this tradegy for their own selfish ends and are determined to blame everyone and everything in an attempt to feather their own nest.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The genie is out of the bottle when it comes to choosing those who head up inquiries I think. Just look at the child abuse case. We're now in danger of any group of victims being able to effectively choose those they feel will give the answers they want to hear and refuse to co-operate or even accept the outcome unless it confirms what they've already decided the truth is. It's really very worrying and some legal firms and politicians are definitely stirring things up.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Things like this become a money pit for the usual suspects and while the real victims may get something it pales compared to the amounts padding the pockets of the professionals and by the time any conclusion is reached its huge bills and mainly forgotten victims.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

It might but I don't have the time besides which it really needs to be perused in full.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Good to see the government have now sent in a taskforce to run some departments in this failing council.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7824256.html

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Could any Council have truly been prepared to cope with such a tragedy?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

People keep (conveniently) forgetting that those issues were with the council staff which has nothing to do with the councillors. How many of those staff would be union members and Corbyn supporters? The term "5th columnist" springs to mind.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Indeed. Perhaps too much energy is going into "who's to blame" rather than sorting out the tragic situation for the people involved.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Any council worth its salt should have strong contingency and emergency plans and the vast majority sadly don't.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

No contingency plan would address every (thought to be) impossible emergency.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

You can only really be expected to plan for something that is likely to happen. How often does something on this scale happen?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

They don't even have robust plans for things that are very likely to happen sadly in some councils.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

They used to before the likes of you and l were born though.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yup, as awful as this is we don't and can't have contingency plans which cater fully for every eventuality. This was a massive event which has left hundreds of people homeless simultaneously and it was never going to be possible to house them all quickly and in suitable permanent accommodation in the same local area.

I think a lot of people in politics, the media and the legal profession especially need to stop fanning the flames and reconcile their anger with what happened and sympathy for the victims with the reality that no local authority anywhere would have been able to cope with a disaster of this scale. Frankly I'm astonished that our armed forces weren't called into assist given the role they've played in countless disaster situations around the world but maybe that was a political decision. :shrug:

The victims too need to be realistic. I've heard several complaining about the lack of information they've been getting and the length of time the forensic investigation is taking. This is despite them being told quite clearly that experts are having to search through tonnes of charred remains on every floor by hand, trying to find even the smallest traces of DNA through which to identify those who've perished. I really don't understand why these residents just can't seem to grasp the huge nature of this task and the precision with which it has to be undertaken if the police are going to be able to identify everyone. I don't see what more anyone could realisitically be doing right now.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

To a point they have been told by rabble rousers that the whole thing will be a whitewash and that it's more then just a tragic accident so not surprising they are pushing for information and many will still be trying to piece things together again not exactly the mindset for rational thought let alone those poor souls that lost family and friends. This needs to stop being used by certain groups and allow the residents to recover and come to terms with it best they can and for a proper unrushed investigation that can give as many facts as is possible given the scale of it.

I'm not really sure we will ever get a complete number for those who died as the fire burnt hot enough to incinerate a lot. I am pretty sure the council has a lot to answer for and if that's the case then somebody needs to go to prison. That said this council seems to be indicative of a general standard with councils across the nation with many being little more then council tax collectors and no interest or motivation to actually serve their communities.

We always hope something good can come out of things like this and i really hope it does these people seem to have been sidelined and ignored by the council for years and while I don't agree with some of the demands being made they have a voice and it deserves to be heard and should be.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

In a word no.! But .

The tenants have said they were ignored by the council when complaining to the council about the fire risk which tragically proved to be true, the council even sent a solicitors letter when the tenants action group started a blog , which was only started as the tenants could not get legal aid to take their landlord to court. Over their fire risk warnings.

The landlord constantly ignored tenants warnings.

And even the leaders did not have the good grace to resign right away , they waited until downing street criticised them.

Failing arrogant council yes.

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

The Hillsborugh victims families spent years and years getting justice and they did after the first enquirey whitewash was eventually overruled , is it any wonder they see that and think will we get justice quite rightly.

Your right they may never get the true number of victims most will most likely have evaporated due to the heat.

I agree with you on councils in general most members I have seen are lacklustre in our local council tried to contact one once to take up a case despite may attempts never did, most are little better then government revenue collectors with no motivation to do right by their communities well sadly it seems so.

Can only hope for a through enquirey with people at the top held to account,the victims and their families must keep pushing to get justice in Grenfell.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes but in those days things like plastic, kevlar and in your case, the wheel, hadn't been invented :).
-----------------------
How the fire started might have bearing on what might happen next imho.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

i den's day it started by rubbing two dinosaurs together ;)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

l am talking about the robust systems many authorities had in place before they started to absolve themselves of their many responsibilities that they had in their local communities in making sure everything was done right and proper and without severe costcutting and a lowering of standards.

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Its alright l have broad shoulders my dear.;)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

:D Den invented fire by rubbing 2 dinosaur willies together. Not sure he was trying to invent fire though :)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

In days gone by councils were required to make provision for the after effects of a nuclear war, what hope does this council have if they can't​ even cope with this?

Ultimately, councillors are expected to appoint competent management, who in turn are expected to employ competent staff to run services on a day to day basis.

In my experience, local authority managers are unable to manage their way out of a paper bag.

Some victims insisted that they wanted to stay in the same area, citing such soundbites as "local support network". When they were offered somewhere, they turned it down on the grounds that they didn't want to have sight of the burned out flats!!!

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Bear in mind that after a nuclear war, there wouldn't be much left to administrate and if I remember rightly the 'emergency plan' was to 'Duck and Cover' and 'Protect and Survive'. The plans were simplistic because the authorities knew we'd mostly all be dead.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Irrelevant. How it spread and the council's reaction is the issue.
(and we know a Hotpoint fridge caused it http://www.goodhousekeeping.co.uk/co...ell-tower-fire)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A dismissive reply accompanied by an inconclusive link :dozey:.

They seem to think how the fire started is relevant.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

People want to live close enough that their children can attend the same schools as well. Which is fair enough.

I think Osem is right that people shouldn't be stirring up the resentment over the time it's taking to find out the precise death toll when it seems like that it's simply how long it will take. The investigators don't seem to be dragging their feet but are instead dealing with a difficult issue. It's disappointing to see politicians trying to push that angle.

But as for the families people should remember that they are understandably upset and angry. It's very easy to be objective and analytical on the outside but considerable harder if you are directly involved. I think few of us know how they're feeling.

It's also hard to tell the victims to trust the system to deliver justice when they think it's already failed them to tragic effect. Someone above mentioned Hillsborough and whilst I think that comparison is too early it's an example of why you should also retain skepticism over the word of the authorities and listen to the victims.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

My point was that they can't have it both ways.

If they want to stay in the area it's going to be extremely unlikely that they'll get anywhere without having sight of the burned out flats.

Also, it's worth remembering that each person affected will have had a different experience. Someone on the ground floor​ may have been able to simply walk outside, whilst those further up may have experienced permanent damage to their lungs or witnessed people dying around them.

Should we treat them all the same when it comes to accessing support and services?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The district is quite large so I think it probably is possible albeit maybe less easy. I haven't heard of them denying accommodation on that basis. I don't really have an opinion one way or another on that.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...ssed-dh0v09ljw (behind paywall)

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

How sure how they can whinge about a new property being too small, when almost all of the flats were 1 or 2 bedroom ones.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

They were but if you look at a picture of the rooms in Grenfell House the rooms were huge in size plenty of open space , the flats were large .

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Older places tend to have much bigger rooms then a lot of the newer builds.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

That's very true denphone, indeed the properties where I live the older ones have the largest rooms for sure.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Some of these newer builds have bedrooms more akin to box rooms Richard.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes they do more like we have this plot of land how small can we make the rooms, to maximise our yield(Builder speak for profit) ;)denphone.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40530354

Why it isn't so easy to rehouse so many people in one area in a short time.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Yes it will take a long time to re house them all , personally I think the modular housing idea is a very good one quick to put up , and will buy a few years whilst a permanent solution is found.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I might be wrong but I'd be very surprised if many of these families would opt for that. I have a feeling they've been 'advised' that they can and should expect far better. I have some sympathy with that but that is what's causing the delays, not the council.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

"It's too small" , "it's too far away", " it's too close" , "it's the wrong colour" , " it's the wrong shape"

How about, " I'm flucking lucky to be alive. I'll manage with what I get given, as I know it's temporary and there's a lot of stuff to sort out.

.??

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

their all in what can i get out of this mode

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The council in "How to get a council house" had a 3 strikes rule, turn down 3 and you off the list.
wonder if they have the same here.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

this has been politicised to the point where they can demand whatever they want ,no one wants to look like the bad guy and say no .

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Probably not.

I'm afraid any sympathy I had for these victims has slowly been lost. Yes, it was tragic, yes some of them lost loved ones as well as belongings (which should have been insured) but so have other people, on a daily basis, since this happened.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

And to be honest i work with people who need care many months after a truma, yes i put myself in their shoes.

Its a fact many of the people who need rehoming will know people to put it bluntly who have been cremated to death.

Insurance will play very little part in their state of mind currently.But hey you thought of it.

It seems from postings very few people have much compassion as you have at least demonstrated.

The people involved in possibly the worst London fire since the blitz will need possibly years of support.

But i am sure they will be glad to hear that you at least are running out of sympathy.

Just hope you are able to reflect on your comments.But perhaps not.

---------- Post added at 22:33 ---------- Previous post was at 22:30 ----------

Yeah pretty sure they had not lived in a block where to put it bluntly where many of their neighbours had been burnt to death .

But hey its nice to know your view.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Dont hold your breath.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I wont as you don't seem to have the skills sorry.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

:dozey:

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

You appear to be confusing compassion with the compensation culture prevalent in society now.

Yes they have gone through a very traumatic experience and do need support through that but don't you think the funds raised would not be able to support that? What does it stand at now? Over £10mllion, That's a lot of money per person to put it bluntly.

So please tell me how we can be more compassionate than to contribute more than £10 million to their need and assist them in the future?

As regards rehousing them where do you think the local council will be able to obtain that amount of stock from?

Tough **** they may have to enroll their kid in a different school if offered accommodation in a different borough but what does that matter?

What has compassion to do with that? I Would be more concerned that my child could continue their education wherever it may be

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Was the Grenfell firefighters equipment up to scratch?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40535417

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

In practice would it have made a jot of difference? Probably not, however in a bit of anti-Tory muck raking, it's peerless.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Questions also need to be asked of how did the fire brigade fail to deal with initial blaze.

As I understand it the fire brigade was there and initially dealt with the fire in the flat, or at least thought they had.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

No politics mentioned by me as my opinion of politicians is unspeakable on a family forum like CF but l just hope that we can get to the bottom of this grim sad tragedy and at the end of it all lessons are learned and l mean learned and not ignored or put on the back burner until the next tragedy arrives.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I imagine they don't want to make kids, likely already traumatised from the fire, have to adjust to a new school, in a new environment and have to make new friends. It's hard for kids to move under the best of circumstances let alone after an incident where their homes, possessions and in some cases family members have gone.

I don't understand how people cannot have sympathy here.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

You often find that as with many things in life Damien as perhaps if some walked a mile in someone else's shoes and experienced it themselves then they might think rather differently.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

You seem to be confusing money with solving the problems bought on by people seeing their friends and neighbours to put it bluntly burnt to death in an inferno,i am afraid not even one billion pounds each would solve the mental health problems arising from that , ,

As for housing stock if you have been reading this thread it has been suggested temporary housing via a modular design could be built quickly in the borough if the will was there,

This has possibly been a man made disaster we will have to wait of the inquirey ,why should the people who have suffrered serious trauma suffer more

This is a time when the children at school if they are attending will need their school friends more then ever not shipped far away.

Victim blaming seems to be the name of the game here and its an ugly thing to see.

---------- Post added at 08:18 ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 ----------

At least somebody on here seems to get it.

---------- Post added at 08:21 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

As far as i know when first phoned there was only a fire in one flat, the person who initially made that call has spoken on LBC,when the brigade got there she said the fire had spread to the sixth floor in a few minutes.

So no the brigade had not put the fire out in the one flat AFAIK.


---------- Post added at 08:25 ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 ----------

[Admin Edit: Discussing Reputation comments publicly, is not permitted: If you have a concern then raise it with the person privately.]

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

[/COLOR]I will tell people a bit about where i am coming from i have been down there its utter carnage.

Yes on a personal level it has affected me how this could happen in 2017 is beyond belief ,would it have been different if the government had implimented the measures a coroner recommeded after the Camberwell flat fire in 2009 .

Who knows but they ignored it.

If people are telling me on here this and that go speak to the people down there ,i guess nobody on here has yet the keyboard warriors and their lack of empathy is astounding.

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

I can and do put myself in their shoes den, having been down there speaking to people its utterly devastating ,the stuff i have been told has moved me so much.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Since that programme was made there has been much more pressure on housing stock, as a result local authorities reduced this to two and then to one.

Most people are no longer offered a home, they have to bid for any vacant property that their allocated points allow. The top ten or so applicants are invited to view the property, if (and it's a big if) those in front of them turn it down, they are invited to view the property and given a chance to accept it themselves.

No idea what policies are being implemented for those made homeless as a result of this fire though.

There was an interesting discussion on LBC very early this morning. From what they were saying, an offer to stay in the UK for a year has been made to any illegal immigrants who come forward to admit that they were unlawfully staying in the flats.

Some callers believed that they should be patched up and sent home ASAP, but most others thought that this idea was a fair compromise.

The host of the show disagreed with them all as he believed that they should be allowed to stay as long as they liked because of what they had been through. He labelled his callers as "heartless".

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------

I personally don't have a problem with those who feel that they have been wronged claiming compensation. If people did the right thing then the claims wouldn't be made or would fail at court.

As a last resort I've successfully taken legal action myself against those who have wronged myself or my business.

However, I do see your point on occasion. A young lad broke into a hairdressers shop and burnt himself on some chemical solution that had been left out overnight.

After being caught for the burglary, he successfully sued the hairdresser. The reasons given were that she had a 'duty of care' towards anyone who came into her shop (even unlawfully) and that the chemical solution should have been safely stored away.

What if a burglar broke into a home and tripped on some loose carpeting and injured themselves?!?!

Maybe this is a reason why any illegals in the tower are being given support??

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

I have plenty for sympathy for them but the victims have to be realistic in their expectations. With all the best will in the world, suitable permanent housing cannot be conjured up from nowhere, it's going to take time.

It will be little comfort to them but I reckon that these unfortunate people are getting a hell of a lot more support than 99% of people who are the victims of serious household fires every week of every year. They will be found permanent homes and they will be compensated (to the extent that anyone can be in such awful circumstances) but it's going to take time and they regretfully have to accept that, as will the forensic process and inquiry.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

A friend of a friend had one of those dodgy tumble dryers that burnt down their house there was no rush of support not even a sense of speed from their insurance company and that's a daily occurence in the UK. No it's not the same scale and there is sympathy for those who died and those who lost people in that incident but over a year we probably have five or six times the number at grenfall who lose their homes often through no direct fault of theirs who get nothing to help them rebuild. Nothing will erode sympathy faster then the living being seen to try and profit from this incident and there are some who are doing that.

There should be no amnesty if the survivors will not give accurate accounts of who was living where then there should be no official bribery to get that information. I agree a degree of compensation is warranted but not an amount that gives a life of luxury for any length of time an amount that gets them back on their feet should be the maximum. Council members who were aware of the situation and did nothing should be charged if they can and if as i suspect there were backhanders involved in the renovation works there should be custodial sentences.

Everyday tradegy strikes families all across the UK in many different ways and they have to manage and don't expect to be sorted out or make any demands. This was horrendous and they should receive help but not a lifetimes help or a lifetimes money especially if they were illegally here.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

The focus of some on here on the perceived behaviour of the affected in terms of their "demands", degree of illegal status and undeserved levels of sympathy strikes chords with the Hillsborough disaster where some of the mainstream media portrayed the victims had in some way contributed to the loss of life.

Their, as it turned out, false coverage, helped to taint the public perception of the victims. I hope that similar comments and coverage does not do the same here ..

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Not the same.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Police say they have 'reasonable grounds' to suspect Kensington Council and TMO committed corporate manslaughter.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7863616.html

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

Newsnight said yesterday that a simulation of the cladding and insulations they mocked up had failed fire safety tests. Which would mean it was illegal I guess...

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Don't public servants watch each others backs?, i'll be surprised if any get their collars felt.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

stab more like

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block
 

That was down to the DESIGNERS AND NOBODY ELSE. Look at the plans.