Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Absolutely crazy IMO as he won't hesitate putting a dagger in her back.

Really Michael that is a fair whopper by you as you were not interested in the national interest when you wanted to run as leader.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Err .. the point "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth" was the proposition that he then argues against!

So you give up and trot out the "mentally defective" summary .. inspired debating technique! Maybe Mother T use this strategy in the upcoming EU talks ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Or shock horror, just to wipe those smirks off yours and Mr K's faces, May keeps on track with a hard brexit which is what 17.4 Million people voted for, given Gove is Pro-brexit, as is Boris, David Davis, Liam Fox. Priti Patel etc.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

But the DUP and the British public don't want it. Hard Brexit is dead Mick, even soft Brexit isn't guaranteed. Keep the faith Mick if it makes you happy ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

This seems a bit odd!
http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-du...#ixzz4jj00THtE

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Rubbish.

Nearly 14 Million people voted for Tories. 13 Million Labour a few days ago. Do the bloody maths, Labour was saying there were/are prepared for a hard brexit, i.e leaving the single market and customs union.

It's not dead, keep dreaming Brexit is happening, so we can leave that corrupted pile of garbage, that for some silly reason, you and a few others, still cherish and think we need when we certainly do not. :rolleyes:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

On the contrary, the DUP are right up for hard Brexit. Their only red lines are no hard border with the republic, and the soft border is not to be secured at the expense of putting up a hard border between NI and GB.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Doesn't no border mean customs union?

By the way the dynamic that's changed is that May doesn't have the majority or statute to do whatever she wants. The Telegraph has reported Hammond made a demand that jobs and the economy should come first. Ruth Davidson has called for a softer Brexit too. There are enough MPs on both sides of this to cause problems given the size of the majority so the dynamic has changed now. Who knows what will actually happen ...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I think everything will go pear shape. The knives are turning for TM. If l had the opportunity to vote on Brexit again. I would vote stay.

Yet again the electorate was conned by shabby politicians. We kept on being told that Millions of OUR money was going into the EU. And parts of that money could go to the NHS.

What's happened - NOTHING.

Its like the General Election. I would say that between now and the time that MPs go on another bleeding holiday. TM will be out. And there will be another General Election.

With DUP and The Tories, it will turn really nasty. And l can see every motion going before Parliament, it will be voted out by Labour.

I was told today by a head teacher, that State schools are in a total mess due to money. And parents are being asked to buy books for the kids to write in. And teachers are facing being laid off due to loss of funding.

This should not be happening in this day and age.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Theresa needs to fall on her sword and let Ruth Davidson pick up the pieces. But Ruth is too shrewd to get extensively involved in the post-Brexit, ongoing austerity mess that the Conservative Party has inflicted on itself.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

The customs union prevents independent trade deals being made. That's why the Tory position has been thar Brexit means leaving the CU. The Single Market is one of the four freedoms and the EU's negotiating position is that you can't pick and choose between them; it's all or nothing. Hence, the Tory position is that we will leave the single market.

This is why the concepts of "hard Brexit" and "soft Brexit" are misleading. There is in reality no such thing as soft Brexit. Remaining in the CU and the SM means retaining a lot of the things that people actively voted against in the referendum. "Soft" Brexit is not Brexit at all. It is merely continuing to remain a member of the key institutions of the EU whilst surrendering all influence over the way they work and develop.

This is the inescapable logic of Brexit and parliamentary maths doesn't change it. I believe the agitators within the Tory party know this, and the prospect of May's administration collapsing and being replaced with Jeremy Corbyn will be enough to frighten them into shutting up.

I believe it will be possible to reach a unilateral agreement with the Irish republic that allows a frictionless border to exist, even though there will be a customs frontier. I'm sure a technological solution can be found to monitor what's crossing the border.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Plus she's not an MP, so might find PM questions a bit tricky !

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Getting a bit tired of all those Labour calls for May to resign having got no mandate. What mandate did Corbyn get?

Then there's yet another example of Labour lies and/or hypocrisy from John McDonnell who, quite typically, said one thing before the election and is doing quite the opposite afterwards. Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:

https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/270145/

Anyone would think amnesia was endemic in the red ranks...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

lol, agreed, I appreciate that there's a few processes first. Maybe Ruth can move to Maidenhead or Uxbridge if one of the incumbent MPs steps down! Even Mick approves of Ruth despite her sensible stance on Brexit. But Ruth seems too clever too clever to get involved in the Westminster mess at the moment.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Brexit hasn't happened yet Arthur so no money destined for the EU has yet been saved. Do you understand that or do you need further help to comprehend it?

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

You can't have her, we need her here. :p:

In all seriousness, she's said as much. She has a job to do here, and hopes to strengthen the Scottish Tories as the main opposition at the next Holyrood election in 2021.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I like Ruth Davidson but she is not a member of parliament or the House of Lords so could not take part ithe government at the moment.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I can't remember what make up her last cabinet had but the new one has a strong Remain bias:

Prime Minister Theresa May remain
First Secretary of State Damian Green remain
Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond remain
Secretary of State for the Home Department Amber Rudd remain
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs Boris Johnson leave
Secretary of State for Defence Michael Fallon remain
Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union David Davis leave
Secretary of State for International Trade Liam Fox leave
Secretary of State for Justice David Lidington remain
Secretary of State for Education Justine Greening remain
Secretary of State for Business Greg Clark remain
Secretary of State for Health Jeremy Hunt remain
Secretary of State for Work and Pensions David Gauke remain
Leader of the House of Lords Baroness Evans ?
Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling leave
Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Sajid Javid remain
Secretary of State for Scotland David Mundell remain
Secretary of State for Wales Alun Cairns remain
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland James Brokenshire remain
Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Michael Gove leave
Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel leave
Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport Karen Bradley remain


The new cabinet involvement in the Government policy making could "soften" previous "hard" Brexit negotiating goals ..

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Silly Boris, he seems to think the Tories won Clwyd South; they didn't ! :D
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7785181.html

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Silly Jeremy, he seems to think Labour won the election, they didn't

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-election-2017

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I know. Read my point again.It was giving up explaining why that mentally defectives points are mentally defective. I could have gone on but couldn't be bothered. :shrug:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

There were no winners only losers after Thursdays election...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Some people certainly think "House price inflation is good for the economy and creates growth". First link on a Google search:

How the housing market affects the economy

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

In a general sense as that quote states it is true however when a country has an austerity led economy as we do the opposite applies.

Higher house prices = less available for economic growth as people are servicing their mortgages instead of spending money elsewhere in the economy.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Wow! I wish I'd known that! What with owning 7 properties :D

---------- Post added at 12:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

From todays Telegraph letters page:
Says it all really :(

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

The argued response is so straight forward and obvious that I wasn't explicit enough? Really?

Obviously, if you keep printing money to bail out your economy, you will devalue your currency and investors will regard your country as being at higher risk. For short periods to deal with emergencies ( such as the recent crash) it is acceptable, but Jeremy Corbyn's plans clearly envisage a long term use of that mechanism to fund his crippling spending splurge.

Other countries have tried that, and look what happened. I did draw attention to Zimbabwe earlier, which is one of the prime examples that most people will know about.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 ----------

Why do you say that? The main reasons people voted to leave were immigration, sovereignty and the ability to make our own laws. None of that is available with a 'soft' Brexit.

The two biggest parties following the election are the Conservatives and Labour. Both had manifestos committing to a reduction of immigration and an end to free movement. The EU has already said that we cannot avoid free movement if we wish to stay in the Common Market.

So where you get that idea from, that hard Brexit is dead, I really don't know.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

When did British voters start rewarding anti-Semitism?
:dozey:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Queen's speech has been delayed by a couple of days, looks like they are still in talks with the DUP.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

You mean what a right wing Tory supporter says :)

The current Governemnt is trying to do a deal with a party that has terrorist associations, should they be ashamed as well?

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Doesn't make it less true :shrug:

As Osem already posted:
https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/l...with-the-dup/]

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Does that make BOTH the Conservatives and Labour hypocrites?

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Possibly all polititians :D

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Agreed on that. :D

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I have already said the link with DUP and Terrorists is weak, the group DUP was only tied to, UR, for only a year, was ON our side, but they did not kill anybody, they just armed themselves, illegally during the IRA uprising era, we all know the IRA did kill people, big difference !

There are concerns that many University Students were able to vote TWICE in the General Election. There are some parents claiming their son/daughter was able to vote TWICE.

A Petition has appeared demanding an investigation be carried out because some Constituencies results were extremely tight.

https://www.change.org/p/uk-electora...cation=minibar

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Students can register to vote both at home and at their place of study, nothing wrong with that. Of course they can only vote one one place in a general election (bizarrely in local elections they can vote in both). Think some Tory parents are grasping at straws... People moan when students don't vote , now they're moaning that they have had the cheek to vote !

As for the DUP and terrorist links there are many. Some are being very two faced about this given the amount of grief Corbyn got for doing the same thing as the British Govt. was doing at the time.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

If a hard Brexit means leaving the single market? Then over 80% of the country voted for it.

Leaving the single market is both Tory and Labour policy.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

When I was at uni I could have voted in two places as I had cards for both home and uni, too far to travel between 2 safe seats though to be worth it. Would be really hard to spot that though and could work both ways though most students will tend to the left. It's only us older folk that have things to tax that start leaning more rightwards.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Totally misrepresented what was said. :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with Students voting, that's good, but they have the same entitlement as everyone else, one vote ONLY. It's nothing to do with having any cheek FFS.

Corbyn has not done the same as British Government, far from it.

Other issue here is, he's prancing about along with his Momentum cohorts, like he's made a real difference. While he needs bringing down a peg or two and reminded no-one won overall.

Tories won heaps of more seats than he did. But if there is weight to this cheating of university students voting twice claim and thousands of students exploited this, then it adds to the question about the validity of the overall General Election results, there were many seats Labour took that had very low majorities.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Labour Party policy is to end freedom of movement. Absent an unprecedented concession from the EU, membership of the single market is tied to freedom of movement.

I'm not sure what planet you've been on for the last 30 years but Corbyn has always been against the EU. His performance in the referendum campaign demonstrates that whatever he may say to the contrary, he is still against it.

We are leaving the EU by the only route available. Out of the single market, out of the customs union, out of the free movement agreement.

There is no such thing as hard or soft Brexit. There is either leaving the EU, or not leaving it. Retaining Freedom of movement (no immigration control), Prevention of independent trade deals (the customs union) and supervision of all of the above by the ECJ while surrendering our seats in the Council and the Parliament (what some call "soft" Brexit) amount to *not* leaving the EU at all.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Chris, Mr K is not on any other planet, he is in that great Egyptian river, they call De-Nile. ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

By voting twice she probably means in both leadership elections

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Especially considering she said people then said she had killed they killed the labour partt

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Maybe so but I'm seeing a handful of tweets from people who appear to be students bragging they got to vote twice in this election.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Report them to the police, it's illegal

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I dont understand why its allowed (double registration).

Surely they can just use postal votes if they are away from home.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I think you are clutching at straws if you think Labour did as well as they did because of students voting twice ..

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

I don't often agree with Chris :) but he is spot on: Corbyn (and this is one of the main reasons I did not vote for him) is that he was a pathetic leader of the Remain campaign. In fact, I would go as far to say that I think he actually voted Leave ..

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------

I would say their associations with Protestant terrorists leave them open to justified criticism:

No DUP apology for Ulster Resistance, despite gun-running leading to murders

DUP chief Arlene Foster met UDA boss days after loyalist murder in Bangor

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I don't think I am clutching at straws at all, voting twice is illegal. If a large portion of them, i.e. thousands of them did so, this could potentially have serious implications because in some constituencies, the result was very tight.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Nah, we shouldn't be at all concerned about this sort of thing if it benefits Labour. Now if it were the Tories who were the beneficiaries, then of course we should expect protests in the streets and the defacing of war memorials... :rolleyes:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

It's Fake News Mick ;), and sour grapes.

If anybody did vote twice, how do you know it wasn't Tory ?

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

As I understand it, according to my independent non-MSM research, the double-voters were the richer Conservative-leaning students whose parents bought them a car to both facilitate a swift exit at the weekends to the country retreat for a spot of faux fox-hunting and a bit of double-voting every time there is an election. :D

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Because everybody knows that Conservative is another word for honest and trustworthy ;)

Cheers

Dave

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Now we know why the Conservatives won. 2 votes for every 1!

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

It's not sour grapes when the party I support is still in power, still won the most seats. :rolleyes:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Still in power because of the DUPlicate voting ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Nope. Students voting twice more than likely went Labour given the carrots they had dangling over her heads with uncosted promises.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Well, you forecast wrong for the last three General Elections.

Good to see you still around - you disappeared for quite a while the last time you got it wrong...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I thought it was the tories that treated the electorate with utter contempt by not bothering to cost their manifesto, they didn't even think enough of us to bother making stuff up.

He was right about Dave being gone, that's the main thing even if his timing was slightly out

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

You thought wrong. Labour were the ones making all these unaffordable promises and bankrupting the country in the process, if heaven forbid, they came to power.

So when Tories come back to power, when Labour loses elections, Tories have to invoke austerity measures to pay off the messy finances Labour always leaves in its wake. Labour are good at leaving notes too, saying there is no money left. :rolleyes:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Or to put it another way, no I didn't think wrong at all

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7755971.html

Please, that's what they want you to believe, the worst of Maggie thatchers privatisations and cuts came at the end of her reign and whilst we're at it look at the mess john major left the countries finances in, that was as big a car crash as any.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

If the Tories were so good at making cuts to pay off the deficit why are we now borrowing more than when Labour was in power?

That was all Osbournes doing, phaps he needs lessons in Maths.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

:)

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/06/17.jpg

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Economics trails politics by some time and to be fair to any chancellor he can't control what happens elsewhere in the world or even in their own country. Demand/supply/costs all can change and adversely affect budgeting. And the other side will not always act in ways to assist.

All said though Labour does tend to spend and Tories save so it's not unusual for Tories to bring in "tough" cuts and for Labour to reverse them.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

The Tories put off their balanced budget target to 2025 so they took the deficit issue off the table this election. Makes it even weirder how little their manifesto had to offer

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I have to laugh whenever this is thrown out because it shows people's up for the lack of understanding of economics.

In 'cash terms', yes Tories have borrowed more than 33 years of combined Labour governments. However, with a much stronger economy, the government tends borrow more.

So in essence. In terms of total borrowing versus GDP, Labour's total time in office borrowed 70% of GDP, since 2010, when Tories came to power it's been only 40% of GDP.

(Drops mic and walks off stage.)

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Please 'nothing'. Complete rubbish. Labour are simply not to be trusted with the nations finances and given all Jezza promised before the election last week, he would have left a massive hole that would need future generations to pay off, he obviously lives in a 'buy now, pay much much later' world.

It's not about believing, it's about the facts and your obsession with Mrs T, is astounding, I would not be surprised if you still had a dartboard with a picture of her stuck across it.

I think you need to bring yourself forward, she has been out of office since early 90's and she made some difficult choices and I know you are not going to agree, but when she came to power, she actually saved this country from the brink and brought those trade unions down a peg or two and stopped them bringing this country to it's knees with increasing demands and crippling strikes, in essence, back in the 70's during Labour led governments, they simply had too much power, something else that would return under a Corbyn/Momentum led Government.

I do not think anybody wants to go back to an era of trash piling up in the streets and the dead being unburied, electricity black outs etc etc.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I'd like to know how much of the borrowing undertaken Tory governments over the years has been as a direct result of Labour's profligacy when it comes to spending and PFI. Someone always has to pay for Labour's debts and mishandling of the economy.

Corbyn did what Labour always do - promise to spend money. Remember their note to the new Chancellor back in 2010? That just about sums up their MO and why those who vote for them can't see through it yet is beyond me.

Did anyone really think McDonnell had changed his ideological spots?

https://order-order.com/2017/06/13/m...#disqus_thread

I suppose he could be planning to honour the promise to resign, along with his loony mate Corbyn, after the communist party is over... :rolleyes:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Kind of confused by that metic? Surely the reason the Conservatives have borrowed more is because the deficit still exists and, especially after 2008, it would have been especially high and you need additional borrowing to cover it. The Tories have reduced the deficit.

What are you measuring against when you compare the borrowing vs GDP? Is that the total debt as of now? GDP fluctuates so if we were to hit a recession tomorrow that 40% would instantly shoot up without the Government haven, yet, taken additional borrowing.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

John Major urges Theresa May to pull out of DUP deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7787681.html

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I agree with the fluctuations taking in to account inflation going either up or down.

I am trying to find the source that I have seen the figures I posted above, the 70% and 40% total borrowing vs all the years of a Labour government vs. current Tory in last 7 years...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39999460

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Stick your head in the sand if you want but the reason you have to go back to the early nineties is because that's when they last won an election outright until recently and look at the mess they made of it then and the point was that the Conservatives hadn't even bothered to cost their manifesto this time round, whenever corbyn announced a policy the tories would shout how's this going to be paid for and he'd have some made up figures to point at, ask Mrs Mayday how she intended to pay for something and she'd say we're going to build a strong economy, not an answer imo

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

They had every right to shout how this was going to be paid because there was no money for it! Labour is a buy now, pay for it and bankrupt us later, party. :rolleyes:

And as for my head, it is not in the sand, you need to look closer to home to that, to believe Labour's manifesto was fully costed, when it most certainly was not.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Whether it was fully costed remains open to question but the Conservatives manifesto was a absolute disastrous shambles unless you think otherwise? as none of their stuff was costed as well and even people within her own party criticised it massively...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

It was fully costed just in the sense that it would have costed a hell of a lot and there's no way their changes to corporation tax etc. would have generated the revenue they claimed. Same old same old Labour...

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I don't disagree with that denphone. But Labour's was not costed at all. Yeah sure, to gullible people it seemed like the holy grail. But there is too many holes in it because too much has been promised, that the country cannot afford, sure let's tax the rich, but watch that source of income, i.e the rich, move over seas, leaving a massive black hole.

I just see what has happened in history and history dictates that Labour leave the nations finances in a dire state, every time they leave office via losing power.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Personally l ain't impressed with any of them as the vast majority of politicians all seem to live on another planet and put their own personal interests and political glory first rather then put the full interests of the nation first and foremost and now we have crucial Brexit talks starting next week and what political chaos which has now unfolded in front of our eyes with the government struggling to survive unless they get the support of the DUC.

What a total utter disaster as Theresa May should have never called a election IMO in the first place as what has unfolded now because she put political glory first rather then governing in the national interest now makes Brexit far far harder to navigate then it ever was before sadly IMO.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Anyway the indisputable fact is that in a general election and in spite of all that Tory nastiness, austerity, dementia tax, NHS privatisation, baby eating etc etc etc. Corbyn's cronies still won 56 less seats. That's about as much a success as Gordon Brown's prudence was but those whose lives are spent sucking up and recirculating fake news on social media won't know that.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I never said it was accurate or that I believed labours figures, what I said for the third or fourth time is the Conservatives didn't even bother to cost theirs at all, which given their plans for breakfast clubs is probably a good thing as based on that they'd be more laughable than labour's

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------

No its not open to question at all, try reading it, it's light on figures throughout

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

The Labour Manifesto had costings, albeit optimistic ones, the degree to which you believe them is obviously the question. The Tories didn't bother with any costings in a sign of how easy they thought the election would be.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

l think this summed it up perfectly quoting from a certain newspaper comments section.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

A little European context for our election results.

https://reaction.life/the-may-mandate/

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Yeah but May's a loser and everyone really wants Corbyn... :rofl:

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

A interesting post-election survey done by YouGov.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/13...eral-election/

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.ne...graphics_W.pdf

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

We don't measure results by European tallies, some of which have PR systems so naturally have smaller vote shares, but by the UK system. May won more votes than Corbyn but she gambled on getting a lot more and instead lost her majority.

By her own yardstick she lost.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Re: Q2. What do the people at the LGBT meetings that you said that you attend think about the decision of May to ally herself with the DUP?

I'm interested in finding out whether the LGBT community perceive any real threat to their rights because of the influence of the DUP.

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Students can only vote twice in local elections. It's a criminal offence to vote twice in a General Election.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

They cut the deficit, not the debt. The debt kept going up, mainlydue to the cost of servicing the debt.

Basically the interest payments keep pushing up the borrowing.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Nope they CAN vote twice in both elections. It's only a problem for them if they get caught. ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Any last vestages of confidence any one had in mayday has surely gone, she can't even get a Mexican wave right

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7788751.html

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Probably because her minders have told her to think a little bit longer before making decisions. ;)

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I don't know that everyone does want Corbyn. I think people have had enough of being told that we need cuts in public services (especially schools and hospitals, although PFI has caused a lot of those issues), public service employees should expect pay rises to be capped to 1% and that "we are all in this together" by a group of people who were awarded a 10% pay rise the year before last, then 1.3% last year, and have been awarded a further 1.4% pay rise this year, and have essentially given themselves billions of pounds to do up their own office building.

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of raising an MP's salary that much (and I can see that the reason they probably did it is to ensure that that the good MPs don't leave public service and go to industry), and I realise that Parliament actually does need the alterations and renovations planned, but it does look to the electorate like there is one rule for the MPs and one for everyone else. The same could be said of Euro MPs and the European Parliament

I suspect a lot of people voted for Labour because while Corbyn hasn't said he is going to stop MPs giving themselves larger and larger salaries, he has talked about ending Austerity.

I think a lot of people voted for Brexit for the same reason. They see the EU as a group of politicians that are only in it for what they can get. They would have a point, and that is something the EU needs to address if it is to survive.


If that chart is right, Theresa May could have buggered up the Tories for a long time. Put bluntly, the Tories have done well in the older population. The trouble is, the older population are, in general, going to die before the younger generation where, quite frankly, Labour are walking all over the Tories at the moment.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Where've I ever said I attend LGBT meetings??

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Agreed - older people will tend to die before younger people however younger people grow older and will then be more likely to vote Conservative

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

It's a common error to assume that people's political allegiances remain static throughout their lives. However it doesn't stack up; the generation voting Tory now voted Labour or Lib Dem from 1997 to 2005. Many of the older ones voted Labour in the 1970s and then Tory throughout the 1980s.

Then truth is, larger numbers of young people are liable to vote for the party that represents the anti-establishment position. They're idealistic like that. At the moment, Corbyn's doing a great job of sounding anti establishment (because he is, though not in a good way).

When young people get older, get jobs, get married, get mortgages and houses ... well then, the practical consequences of the policies they're asked to vote for become a little more relevant. Until then, they're going to vote for whoever they think will stick it to the man and give them free stuff.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

It seems Farron might be in a bit of bother as Brian Paddick has resigned:

https://order-order.com/2017/06/14/f...coup-underway/

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40281300.
Farron has resigned

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Yep, was just about to post the same link, Tim Farron has quit as Lib Dem leader.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Yup. Should have done better with the General Election although it's easy in retrospect to say they were wrong to focus on Brexit.

He never properly articulated how he resolved the conflict between his faith and his politics. Personally I think it's liberal to vote to extend the rights of others irrespective of your own faith, liberalism isn't about making everyone have the same views not imposing those views on others. There was a time when it would be considered wrong for an atheist to be the leader of one of the main parties, as that becomes less bizarre we shouldn't flip it around and make it hard for someone religion to be so.

But he kept dodging the question hoping it would go away and in the end people are entitled to object to that and use their vote accordingly.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Maybe they'll bring back Paddy Pants Down to restore a bit of pride in the party... :D

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Jo Swinson probably, hope it isn't Cable.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

No surprise there given his hypocritical stance on several things.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

Agrred especially when they had Jeremy (bunny) Thorpe as leader in the 70's. He didn't want to force his views on anybody, just wanted all treated as equal no matter what sexual orientation etc. I still think he may have been the best leader they've had.

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

I remember the, "how do you get 3 liberals on a bar stool?" taunt. :D

Re: The 2017 General Election
 

As do I but society was different then, thankfully we have evolved except for Faron it seems.

Although I'm "straight" I have many friends in the LGBT community and have for several years. I have no problem with them they are still my friends.

In fact the most recent one I met (about 5 yrs ago) who I still have a drink and a natter with was surprised when I answered his "You do realise I'm Gay" statement with "Are you a good person or not if so I don't give a ****!"

We've been good friends ever since.

I take people as I find them, not by their sexual orientation, that's none of my business.