Re: BREXIT
 

well if they need help ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

May stated in the beginning she wanted EU citizens to be given the right to stay in the country and British citizens should be given the same rights.

It was the EU that said no, it would not be discussed until A50 had been triggered.

The only thing I can see happening is that when A50 is triggered any EU citizens entering the country from that date will not have right of residence, anyone before then will.

Re: BREXIT
 

I don't see it being an issue. I think the EU are playing hardball to avoid mini-deals being struck ahead of the talks. This will probably be the first deal done along with Visa free travel between EEA countries and the UK.

Re: BREXIT
 

EU citizens here before the referendum should have been given the right to stay, straight after the Referendum result. Brexit leaders wanted this to be the case.

Re: BREXIT
 

Those EU Migrants who commit crime though, need to be sent packing, they lose their automatic right to stay in UK. This is how it should be.

Re: BREXIT
 

That's how it happens in the areas of the country with the courage to enforce the law and how it should be.

Re: BREXIT
 

'A LOATHSOME REPTILIAN!' Galloway launches extraordinary attack on Remainer Mandelson


:clap::clap::clap:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/773...son-Tony-Blair

Re: BREXIT
 

They're out of luck then, if we have any sort of plan imo it should have mini deals at its forefront, divide and conquer might be the best strategy to adopt behind the scenes

After they've served any associated prison sentence

Re: BREXIT
 

Or serve it there. Off-topic but I feel that we should allow people to see out sentences in their own country where we're confident sentences will be roughly the same and conditions aren't inhumane. Mostly because I think that would be better for UK citizens that have committed crimes abroad.

Re: BREXIT
 

No, they get deported and serve a sentence in their own Country. Therefore, UK does not foot the bill during their incarceration, in a British Prison.

Re: BREXIT
 

I seem to recall Britain giving Nigeria a million quid to improve their prisons under the terms of a bilateral prisoner exchange scheme so we are footing a bill and when you think about it what exactly is the incentive for countries like Nigeria to take these people back apart from bribes, obviously we can't wait to get our drug mules for instance back from Peru to make their little lives easier and turn them into z list celebrities upon release. Vietnam is high up the list of foreign criminals here and whilst their jail conditions are truly awful, if you've got a few quid they improve remarkably. Imo if you commit a crime in a country you serve your sentence there so the victims of your crime and that society as a whole can see justice being served.

Re: BREXIT
 

Why should the country pay twice? Firstly, with the crimes committed on it and secondly by paying for the criminal's food and accommodation? Deport them.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

I agree with the Lords on this. We're British and we need to demonstrate our values of fairness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39133400

Re: BREXIT
 

This is not a defeat really our government always wanted the rights of EU citizens gauranteed and the same for ex pats and so on it was the EU that shut that down trying to look tough. I just hope the remain fanatics don't hamstring us too much during negotiations by getting us to give concessions without an equal reciprocal stance from the EU and i think that's their plan at the minute make brexit so lop sided that the public will turn against it.

Re: BREXIT
 

[QUOTE=1andrew1;35888035]Why should the country pay twice? Firstly, with the crimes committed on it and secondly by paying for the criminal's food and accommodation? Deport them.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------

I agree with the Lords on this. We're British and we need to demonstrate our values of fairness.



your values are a weakness that will be exploited

Re: BREXIT
 

History has been made!!!.... Andrew and myself agree on something ;):D

Re: BREXIT
 

Ha ha! :D

Re: BREXIT
 

It's a conspiracy, a (passing)BAT supporter (Brexit And Trump) and a RAT (Remoaning Anti-Trump) are luvving it up. I smell a rat ;).

Re: BREXIT
 

By treasonous, I take that as those you stubbornly refuse to believe we are going to leave the EU, and try to delay what was demanded by the Leavers.

Re: BREXIT
 

Oh dear! The secrets out!


The Brexit leaders were for giving pre-referendum EU citizens in the UK the right to stay. I agree; it is the morally right thing to do.

Re: BREXIT
 

Understood. I feel our primary moral obligation is to UK citizens living abroad and when EU leaders turned down our proposal to resolve the issue up front of negotiations, they made their citizens hostage to fortune.

It isn't nice but this isn't a game of cricket. We can't keep on trying to instil our sense of fair play in people who want to play by different rules.

Re: BREXIT
 

Quite. The likes of Mandelscum, the Kinnockios, Bliar, John (I'm a failure) Major. Ken Clarke. All those who have sold their souls to Brussels and are collecting the cheques.

Selling out your country to foreign powers. Giving foreign powers the right to enforce their laws, tax our people but spend the money elsewhere, their idea of justice etc. All this is treachery of the worst kind. IMHO.

Re: BREXIT
 

Wonder how many of their lordships are also thinking of their retirement in the sun?

It's a tricky issue. There are lots of expats living in EU countries and other UK citizens planning to. But, from evidence in Cyprus, many just want to make a little England in the sun, don't want to integrate, learn the language, they demand discounts because they are expats. (I also know there are those who are the opposite to this so it's not everyone.)

Common sense says that we want free movement and rights for "good" people who will benefit the host nation but not the "bad" people who want to "exploit" (quotes as this could mean different things). We all know what we mean but this has to then be framed legally and it's then we get issues so some "good" people are "denied" while "bad" get away with it.

Re: BREXIT
 

I think you're a tad pessimistic on this point. Let's take the moral high ground. It will create buckets of goodwill for the UK and give the EU 27 a feeling that they "owe" us something and that we are genuine about a mutually beneficial solution. It will also save key parts of the country suffering if doctors, surgeons and other key EU-born nationals leave through uncertainty.

Re: BREXIT
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/03/1.jpeg

A German float, sums it's up as how we're seen in the rest of the EU.

I was 'on the continent' last week, very welcoming they were too. We're just seen as sad eccentric nutters to be pitied.

Re: BREXIT
 

Substitute 'realistic' for 'pessimistic'. The Prime Minister has given assurance as far as is possible that EU citizens who qualify to stay will be welcome to do so. That is a bucketload of goodwill given that the EU, for its part, is being rather more tight-lipped about the issue.

The UK is being very upfront about its intentions and the 'blame' for this stumbling block ought to be seen for what it is - Europe keeping all its cards close to its chest.

Anyone leaving this Country because of 'uncertainty' when the Government here has made it clear that they are welcome to stay, subject to an agreement with their 'home' Government, would be prematurely turning their back on everything they came here for in the first place. You underestimate the resilience and intelligence of these people.

And the Lords, on this occasion, are unelected, daft old buggers interfering with the will of the British people.

Bah, Germans. Bad losers. Was there a float with Mrs Merkel and an AK47 in her mouth?

Re: BREXIT
 

No, will this do though?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/03/16.jpg

Re: BREXIT
 

Ha ha, Ja! :D

Re: BREXIT
 

Awww diddums, actually, no, still don't care. :rolleyes:

Re: BREXIT
 

Interesting facts about what WTO rules would actually mean in reality and why they won't work for us
http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/wto-rules...pandora-s-box/

Re: BREXIT
 

The interesting fact is the EU is not working for us.

Re: BREXIT
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35888103) Common sense says that we want free movement and rights[

I may have misunderstood you; apologies if so, but free movement is wrong in any shape or form. Every nation should have controlled immigration. That helps a nation plan regarding job skills requirements and social resources. It also maintains each nations culture and unique identity.

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------


Spot on

Re: BREXIT
 

We're leaving the EU and the debate has moved on. Some want a return to WTO rules; this speech explains the drawbacks if this occurs.

Re: BREXIT
 

A mutually beneficial negotiated settlement will be reached imho.

Re: BREXIT
 

I hope so too.

Re: BREXIT
 

There will be no drawbacks that I see, it's more wild spreading fear and speculation.

It would be a massive drawback remaining in the failing project (EU).

Re: BREXIT
 

Again, I'm a little unsure as to why you wish to re-fight the "leaving EU battle" when that was settled back in June. :confused:

The article was about the downsides of leaving the EU and relying on WTO rules. Not about leaving or remaining in the EU.

Re: BREXIT
 

Not entering a 'leaving EU' debate, agree that has been done to death.

I am just saying the article you have linked to, is just speculation, fear spreading.

It's not working (with me anyway).

Re: BREXIT
 

Unfortunately it's us that will be the losers. The bill for leaving will be £50bn, and that's just for starters.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit...6-12?r=DE&IR=T

Never mind we've loads of money spare and can always hit the poor, vulnerable and disabled again. Boris et al will be ok with their private healthcare etc. The already gigantic divisions in this country are going to massively increase.

Re: BREXIT
 

That isn't a bill for leaving the EU and it is extremely disingenuous to portray it as such.

That figure represents Michael Barnier's assessment of our financial liabilities, due to commitments we have already made. No honourable person would argue we shouldn't pay what we promised we would pay. HMG might, however, argue over the precise amount, if the details of the commitment are obscure. Either way, those financial commitments would continue indefinitely if we had remained in the EU, but will come to a definite end now we are leaving.

Re: BREXIT
 

Whatever the figure it's going to cost big time and effect us all (bar the very rich of course). Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud Cuckoo land. Why else has every living PM, including the current one, campaigned for Remain?

Re: BREXIT
 

Personally, I think our Prime Ministers get too close to the subject, with all the sumitry that goes on. Modern EU heads of government are almost friends and colleagues. It is hardly surprising that they should all form the view that they are better off sticking together. Add to that the fact that it will undoubtedly be very tricky to unpick the web of treaties we have become entangled in and it is not hard to see why even a eurosceptic prime minister would decide it is best left alone - simply a fight not worth picking.

My principal reason for voting leave, however, was precisely because untangling ourselves has become so difficult and in not many more years it might have become truly impossible. All member states of the EU have de facto surrendered a degree of their sovereignty. That, to me, is not acceptable.

Anyway, the point is now moot. We're leaving. Art.50 will be invoked not more than 28 days from now.

Re: BREXIT
 

I think the UK will argue that it is owed a share of the EC real estate and this will make a good dent in the £50bn.

Re: BREXIT
 

Indeed I think with the net amount we've paid in over the years it can be argued that the EU actually owes US money.

Re: BREXIT
 

It is you that's living in cloud cuckoo land.

Re: BREXIT
 

Because they are a bunch of traitors who have bought into the EU plan.

Re: BREXIT
 

Dissent is not disloyalty - language like this creates divides when we need to be united.

Why not convince others rather than vilify them?

Re: BREXIT
 

That was my big fear with leaving, that the country would become even more of a place of haves and have nots, a tax haven of the coast of Europe that is also a haven of inequality where all the public services have been auctioned of to the lowest bidder providing they have chums in the right place, went to their old school, are in their lodge etc etc. I hope this is the dawn of a bright new future but can't help but think it'll just be a much faster race to the bottom

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:42 ----------

Because it's easier, the lazy option and rather proves one of the points john Major was making

Re: BREXIT
 

they don't like that term ,they prefer to be called people with a different view on what loyalty to the crown and country is .

Re: BREXIT
 

I was talking about our past prime ministers. If a leader of a country willingly colludes in that countries absorbtion into something like the EU whilst being less than open about the EUs true objectives, they are a traitor to that country.

---------- Post added at 07:41 ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 ----------

Heh :D

---------- Post added at 07:43 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------

No. It's a statement of fact.

Re: BREXIT
 

She's at it again.

Now Gina Miller threatens ANOTHER legal challenge

Re: BREXIT
 

Sadly vilifying others seems to be very much the common norm at the moment in this country and frankly l thought most Brexiteer's would be better then that and debate and discuss things in a rational adult manner rather then keep on insulting those who voted to remain.

---------- Post added at 11:14 ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 ----------

There you go again insulting others who share a different view to yours.

Re: BREXIT
 

So referring to remoaners as traitorous and/or hormonal is not on? Aww, not fair ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

Part of the British identity is meant to be tolerance of others' opinions. I would like to think we can all unite and act on this part of our identity whatever our views on TV providers, Brexit or The Voice. ;)

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

I read a really good article - which I can no longer find - which said that the UK is too large to become a tax shelter. And our wide range of industries means that a reduction in corporation tax would not be made up by a large number of companies relocating here. It also said that the UK needs to start paying more tax. We've had austerity but that's not made up for the lack of tax revenue the country needs. Sooner than later, we're going to have start paying more tax and it is likely that Richard Hammond will start to prepare us for the bad news.

Re: BREXIT
 

Richard Hammond? The little squirt should stick to crashing cars not the economy....:erm:...oh wait.........:D

Re: BREXIT
 

British Sovereignty is under attack, as is National Sovereignty world wide. It is important to understand the real agenda. The man in the street is largely unaware of this, but certain politicians are fully aware of this and it is why they kept the true aims of the Common Market hidden and deceived the British public. These people who want to sell out British Sovereignty deserve to be labelled what they actually are.

Re: BREXIT
 

lol, too many Hammonds, too little time. The one in question should of course be Philip.:)

Re: BREXIT
 

Easily done. At least you didn't mix up his co-presenter, Theresa May, with the Prime Minister, James May :).

Re: BREXIT
 

Ha ha the day's still young. ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

Whether one agrees with their views or not its pretty preposterous and illogical to call them or members of the public who don't support Brexit traitors as that is their beliefs as it is the people who voted for Brexit who have their own beliefs as well.

l though the British people were better then that but sadly the behaviour and insults since the referendum was called and hence since then with the vote for Brexit and afterwards have been nothing sort of deplorable IMO.

Re: BREXIT
 

There are people on both sides that need to take a step back and relax but in fairness there is idiocy on both sides designed to get the rowdy minority foaming at the mouth. Gina miller is in this for her and i no longer believe her stories of harassment and bullying and i can see her being a constant issue for brexit expecting to get her own way on the process.

Re: BREXIT
 

Check my previous posts Den, I specifically omitted the public and the vast majority of Remain MPs (as I did in the last post) and named Ken Clarke and Tony Blair as examples. Both are Bilderberg members and globalists at heart. That means they are happy to cede laws (and therefore sovereignty) to unelected people.

There are times when you need to call 'a spade, a spade'. I know that upsets the Political Correctness brigade, but so be it.

Re: BREXIT
 

Tony Blair and Ken Clarke are many things but not traitors. You could argue that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are traitors for pushing for Brexit which will leave the country poorer, more isolated and having less clout in the world. They're not. It's just people holding different and valid opinions.

Re: BREXIT
 

Yes indeed as my sentiments apply to both sides and not just those who voted for Brexit RK.

Re: BREXIT
 

Well hold on a moment there, that's just a little premature, unless you're Mystic Meg, how about we revisit that statement in 5 years and see.

Re: BREXIT
 

Only some sources support your prediction for the future Andrew and they are far from universally believed and there are others that paint a far better picture. Given the utter mess we were told we'd be in right now if we voted to leave you'll have to excuse people not taking doom and gloom at face value but your welcome to picture the future however you want doesn't mean it's realistic.

Re: BREXIT
 

You forgot the other playground insults - "you smell of wee" and "your mum!"... ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

You have no concrete evidence too support that. So called financial experts were totally discredited after the referendum.


Nigel Farage is a man for this time. It's most likely that without him, the referendum would not have happened. He (and Trump) get the battle that is going on between nation state Sovereignty and a globalist agenda.

Re: BREXIT
 

Why doesn't the House of Lords move to Brussels? RICHARD LITTLEJOHN wonders why the unelected peers are so determined to betray the majority of people they are paid to represent


Not for the first time, it fell to Norman Tebbit to speak for Britain. Why was it, he asked his fellow members of the Lords, that they were elevating the rights of foreigners over those of the British people?
‘It seems to me the first duty of this Parliament, of the United Kingdom, is to care for the interests of the citizens of this kingdom,’ he said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz4aHUiqtNd
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Re: BREXIT
 

Richard Little Willy/ Daily Mail? Nuff said really.
The Lord's may be unelected old codgers, but they have plenty of experience and stop us making some seriously bad laws. If the Commons wasn't so incompetent they wouldn't be needed.

Re: BREXIT
 

More claptrap. You should not have an unelected house dictate what an elected house should do, it is undemocratic. This is yet more evidence of you living in cuckoo land.

Re: BREXIT
 

Yep. I was calling our past remainer prime ministers traitors (not the remainer voting public) but that point seems to have gone unnoticed by our remainer members here.

Re: BREXIT
 

Except they don't. They pass legislation back to the commons with suggested improvements. The commons the say yes or no to them. Very rarely will they stop an elected the govt. from doing their business. You should read the Constitution Michael.

Re: BREXIT
 

It's not rare at all, they stopped the Tax credit amendments last year.

I will pay no heed to your advice because I stand by my assertion, you cannot have an unelected house dictate policy to an elected house which is essentially what they do, they won't pass legislation and insist on their amendments until they get what they want and it goes back and forth in game of ping pong.

Re: BREXIT
 

I'll take the house of lords seriously when a lot of them attend for more then the required duration to get their allowance and some don't use the chamber as a snooze lounge. Norman tebbit was absolutely spot on and despite what some think he usually does speak more for citizens then many others.

Re: BREXIT
 

I do remember this moment in the Lords, it does have it's comedy moments:-

Re: BREXIT
 

Except that's not what happened.....
George Osborne found some money down the back of his sofa and decided he didn't have to quite as nasty after all ! The Lord's didn't stop it , the Govt.could have forced it through if they wanted. They can be very grateful the Lord's caused them to pause and reflect and avoid causing even more misery for low income families. This is a perfect example of why the Lord's is important, a very good example you've raised Mick ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

Interesting times ahead for the EU. I've an idea where Trump will tell them to go.;)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/w...imes&smtyp=cur

Re: BREXIT
 

As if there weren't enough issue's for the EU.

Re: BREXIT
 

What??? :confused::confused::confused:

There are no issues! Didn't you know the EU is a safe haven? As safe from terrorism, social unrest and extreme right wing politics as the Greeks are safe from eternal debt. There are no issues within the EU - no unemployment, stagnation, unrest or division. It's only life outside the EU which is susceptible to any such negative forces as that virtuous crystal ball monger Tim Farron has clearly proved. Anyone who'd want to leave the warm embraced of the Brussels Bureaucrats must be insane - all the empirical evidence shows us that staying in the EU is the only way for the UK to be a prosperous, safe and harmonious nation...

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:02 ----------

Yup, I think that sums up where he's coming from.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

What sort of school did you go to? Was it 'approved'?... ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

What a terribly awful place to receive an education. You'll be telling us next Hugh that you stuck your nob in a pig's mouth during detention ;).

Your buttocks should be spanked with a wet rasher. And we won't even mention your time at Sandhurst.

Re: BREXIT
 

You're missing the point mate. I'm describing why people on either side of the debate could be called traitors. I'm saying it's equally invalid to describe either side as traitors because they have a different but valid opinion.

---------- Post added at 00:41 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

Nope. In response to why people one side of the argument could be described as traitors, I explained that this could apply to the other side. I stated it was incorrect to label one side traitors just because they felt differently from you on an issue.

---------- Post added at 00:48 ---------- Previous post was at 00:41 ----------

I'm just showing that there are two sides to many arguments. There's no evidence to show that either side are traitors...which is my point.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:48 ----------

Well according to Donald Trump, he is ‘totally in favour’ of ‘wonderful’ EU.

Re: BREXIT
 

what that there dicknery says .... traitor

a person who is not loyal or stops being loyal to their own country

traitor

Origin
Middle English: from Old French traitour, from Latin traditor, from tradere ‘hand over’.

brexit= take back
remain = hand over


not that i'm calling anyone names or giving them a label i wouldn't do that .

Re: BREXIT
 

Based on your own subjective one eyed opinion l gather as am l a traitor because l did not vote for Brexit? at the time and now its going to happen my belief is we should try to do the best we can for the whole of the country going into the future so l gather IYO that does not make me a traitor now?.;)

Re: BREXIT
 

calm down dear
i quoted the dictionary definition of traitor and its origin

as a brexiter i voted to take back control
not give away more control to a foreign power

what ever you voted for is i your business and on your conscience i have put no label on it .;)

Re: BREXIT
 

l understand why yourself and others voted for Brexit but what you voted for and what you might get could well disappoint yourself and others papa but anyway there is far more to life as you and l know then Brexit as life is short and one must enjoy it as much as we can..:)

Re: BREXIT
 

can't argue with that;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Tony Blair and Ken Clarke are many things but not traitors. You could argue that Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage are traitors for pushing for Brexit which will leave the country poorer, more isolated and having less clout in the world. They're not. It's just people holding different and valid opinions.

i think your wrong there Tony Blair is a traitor to humanity with the blood of millions on his hands.

Re: BREXIT
 

Re: BREXIT
 

Legally maybe, the reality might be different if we want to do any trade with the EU in future.
So the Lord's are worthwhile after all ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

That would be short term gain, long term pain I suspect, not to be recommended.

Re: BREXIT
 

I certainly don't think we would leave without paying anything but I doubt it will be £50bn.

Re: BREXIT
 

Now you've crossed the line - that sort of comment is unforgivable!!:mad::mad::mad:

(I was in the RAF ;))

Re: BREXIT
 

ahh nursing the old crate back to blighty in the moonlight dodging the flack ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

Gulp!

The Dam Busters is one of my favourite films. So is 633 squadron. And Reach for the Sky. And...it's no good is it, I'm banned again?! :D

Stop mentioning his sex life will you or I'm dead!

Re: BREXIT
 

I was a little later, defending the bars of Western Europe against the Russian menace...

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.... :D

*we delegated that task to officers - we had bigger fish to fry...

Re: BREXIT
 

Interesting and thoughtful article from Sky News


Could Sinn Fein surge spurred by Brexit see Northern Ireland leave the UK?

Re: BREXIT
 

"Designatied EU status" - yeah, right.

Re: BREXIT
 

Haha! It goes with the territory mon ami :D

Re: BREXIT
 

never had any interest in what the IRA have had to say and never will

---------- Post added at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

Gina Miller says she fought Article 50 in court because rhetoric around Brexit 'could lead to world war'


what a woman now she's trying to stop ww111 is there no end to her selfless acts :shrug:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7611971.html

Re: BREXIT
 

Gina Miller, thought she was going to thwart May's timetable for invoking Article 50 by end of March 2017. I think she was expecting the decision being put through Parliament to be a long drawn out process and that loads of amendments were going to be agreed upon, like freedom of movement, single market access. I think it's absolutely hilarious that the annoying prat, has had little impact on her attempt to delay A50 being invoked.

Re: BREXIT
 

Sounds like she's well and truly embarked on the hyperbole bandwagon...

What has she got to say about staying in the EU. Is that a risk free choice?...