Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ephen-hawking/
Oh dear, maybe Jeremy should just keep quiet sometimes and have a cold shower in his new £44k bathroom...

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

An issue I hope David Davis is engaged on
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/i...tage-sg9ntfkhd

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Not sure why his opinion is any more relevant than any other dozy old git down the pub.....

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

BREAKING: ALL Hospitals Accident and Emergency dept. in England have been placed in emergency measures.

https://news.sky.com/story/hospitals...ssure-11193433

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

All operations and in-patient treatments cancelled until the end of the month across England? :shocked:

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

My Family has been the victim of the consequences of the above measures.

Earlier on.... My one year old nephew stopped breathing this afternoon, his mum (My sister) had to essentially give him a gentle kiss of life and he started breathing again, she called an Ambulance to be told, they are extremely busy. She did not want to have him driven down in case he stopped breathing again and he was in traffic, the Ambulance has arrived as of 7pm, some 2 hours, 40 minutes later since they were first rang.

How on Earth can this be happening in the 21st Century?

It pains me to see this happening and it hurts more when it's your own flesh and blood. :(

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Sorry that is happening to your nephew Mick. :(

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

l cannot say l am surprised like many by that.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

So sorry to hear about your nephew Mick as l hope and pray that he will be alright.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Very sorry to read this Mick. At least he's now in the best possible hands and I wish him a speedy recovery.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Private ambulance crews are on strike where I live, they get paid 7.80 per hour and my pal who is all but a paramedic is only on 10 per hour, the company has been bought out but successive foreign companies who just keep cutting, the horror stories I've heard about the conditions and the standards of crews such conditions attract is truly shocking. All the best to your nephew Mick terrible for his mum to have to sit there panicking for so long to on top of that to

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It's a shambles Mick and I hope your nephew gets better soon.

This has been coming for a long time, the NHS has been relying on luck. It's wake up time for the general public, if you want an NHS you're going to have to pay more tax. It's a message the Tory party won't give as they are quite happy to see it fail, and cut taxes for the rich. Even if they have private health care many don't realise they'll get transferred back to the NHS if they are seriously ill (sometimes having to endure life threatening transfers between hospitals).

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

No, only non-urgent ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42541412 Mick, sorry to hear about your nephew - hope he is on the road to recovery. You feel so helpless when young children are unwell.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Makes more sense. I did think it would be major, breaking, headline news otherwise. Still bad of course.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I have no problem paying more tax for a better service, but why is the the default position? Why not consider the German or French models, which work well, and the funding comes from multiple sources, including taxation?

Something needs to be done, but just to roll out the old shibboleths stops progress - we need to think differently, with a growing aging population.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Even if it isn't tax people are going to have to pay one way or another, which they don't seem to be prepared to do (despite what they may say in opinion polls).

There are many questionable areas the Govt. has been giving away money e.g. cutting personal allowances, cutting the top tax rate. It may be politically popular, but we're now paying the price. The latest wonder plan is a £2bn taxpayer bailout of Virgin East Coast, isn't privatisation wonderful ? (for Mr Branson it is anyway, who is rapidly also expanding into healthcare...)

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The NHS has been a badly managed and badly staffed shambles since at least the mid 90's. The recent 'cuts to it's funding' that some people bang on about are imo a red herring deflecting from the way it's been run and staffed for the last three decades. It wasn't fit for purpose back then and nothing has changed since.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The problem is that they can never predict when exactly any increase in demand is going to occur. Impossible to plan ahead for. the alternative to cancelled ops, is to not plan any ops over the winter months. More money won't solve anything as there's supposed to be a staff shortage.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

More money would enable salaries to be increased which would enable the vacancies to be filled as the roles would be more attractive.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

So what other higher paid jobs are these people doing?

Are these mythical staff going to sit around most of the year waiting for when, or if, a peak in demand occurs?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

A range of other roles. Once salaries and conditions favour the NHS then those positions will be filled. It's a case of supply and demand.

---------- Post added at 00:24 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Mythical? What on earth do you mean by that?
Regarding the second point, we're talking about filling vacancies not employing people for the sake of it.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

There is a lack of medical staff generally throughout the Western world. Most countries have to import staff. Pay has little to do with it and nothing to do with a peak in demand which unpredictable in its timing.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

If you want people, you give them the best pay and conditions that you can afford. If you have to compete internationally for talent then you have to be prepared to pay accordingly for it. Paying staff poor wages as others have described in this post won't attract or retain staff.
We're talking here about filling all the unfilled vacancies through making roles more attractive, not about Winter time demand projections.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

l agree but can you see our politicians from whatever political persuasion thinking differently with their set ideological dogma?.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I've a suggestion I'm going to stick on the side of a bus

we send the BBC 71 million per week let's spend that on the NHS instead

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It can be predicted and this crisis was predicted. The Flu was going to be bad this year, forecast months ago, coupled with the Xmas break, cold weather, staff shortages and ageing population, it really isn't rocket science. We just haven't invested enough or employed and trained enough staff in the NHS. Poor management maybe a factor, but it's being used as a smokescreen to try and get away from the fact we're not paying or valuing the NHS or it's staff enough.

On top of that we've got a govt. who have an agenda to run the NHS down. Jeremy Hunt is very quiet, probably waiting for this promotion to Deputy PM having achieved all his objectives no doubt.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...size=375%2c250

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

That'll buy 2 boxes of plasters and a box to put them in.

The NHS needs to be more efficient but if you try they'll pay a fortune on efficiency experts and on monitoring how efficient they are.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

So why don't we try a different model, like the French or German ones?

Because people will scream "privatisation", when in fact, the models are a mixture of public, private not-for-profit, and private. As long as the service is free at the point of use, which was the original NHS maxim, who cares how it is delivered.

Anything but the USA model, which is the biggest cause of bankruptcy for that country.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think your right , we can't go on like this it's just not working .

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The NHS needs rebuilding from the ground up. It would be a mammoth task for any Government to take on and probaibly encounter massive resistance.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

... and those are precisely the reasons it'll probably never happen sadly.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Whatever, the Govt. have had 8 years to do something. They've done nothing except impose real term cuts in the face of increasing demand; what did they (and those that voted for them) think the result would be?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Any timing can NEVER be accurately predicted. Do you cancel non-essential operations, just in case?

Similar problems happened BEFORE 2010, and are also happening in Scotland and Wales.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

And that’s why we will never progress - people don’t want to solve problems, they just want to blame and score points.

Difficult to have a cogent and reasonable discourse when a post begins with "Whatever" - what are you, 15 years old? :(

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

They do things so much better across the EU, don't they?:rolleyes:
Last year.
2011 report.
2009

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Who are we inviting to help us, who are advising us, not the French or Germans but Americans so whose system will we end up adopting and having seen how bad the private sector has been for the ambulance service I don't think it's a good idea to further involve them tbh

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Slightly older Hugh.... ;)

The 'whatever' was frustration at the Govt. having done nothing, even if was part privatisation or the German/French system. They have just let the NHS rot, as they and their families don't use it. Do something/'whatever', not nothing except make cuts.

You say you'd be happy to pay more tax? Try putting forward a motion at the next Tory conference, good luck ! If it's not increasing the wealth of those there they won't be interested.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------

Jeremy has said 'sorry' anyway, so that's all sorted then.... :rolleyes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42552267

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

My Nephew is much improved but docs were flummoxed as to what caused him to stop breathing, they said it's possible it could have been his temperature and his white blood cell count was high. They warned it could happen again, so that's not a good thing to be told.

They kept him in overnight but after being taken in the Ambulance at 7pm, they did not get seen till about 11.30pm last night. Utter shambles.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

l am glad he is much improved Mick as usually a high white blood cell count isn't a specific disease, but it can indicate another problem, such as infection, stress, inflammation, trauma, allergy, or certain diseases. That's why a high white blood cell count usually requires further investigation.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Glad to hear he is on the mend .. good news indeed.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Sadly even going back under the previous administration that was happening sometimes as l was up there several times and waited quite a few hours each time so nothing has changed or improved much Mick under the current administration so as Hugh says perhaps we need to rethink the future gong forward of the NHS as its obviously to many the NHS as it stands is failing big time.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Once again you focused on half of my statement, overlooking the second part of the statement about alternative approaches.

btw, last Tax Year, as I contracted half the year and was Permie the rest, I paid quite a lot in PAYE and NI, so you can see I have no issue paying tax (I could have drastically reduced my Tax and NI bill by setting up as a Limited Company, but chose not to). Also, I haven’t been to a Party Conference in over 20 years.

How much extra tax would you personally be willing to pay?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

What alternative approaches are there? The current set-up is generally free at the point of delivery (bar prescriptions, car-parking/travel to hospitals) and with services funded by tax, NI, land sales, car-parking, shop rents etc. It is delivered by a combination of private and public sector staff.

Are we talking about a system of insurance instead or maybe something that incentivises good healthly lifestyles?

---------- Post added at 21:50 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

Good news he's home and much improved but a double trauma for everyone involved.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The problem IMHO: The NHS is based on a 1948 model of society where the elderly were generally looked after by their own families in their own houses even when quite ill.

Most people were proficient in first aid and didn't go running to their doctor or A&E when they split a fingernail.

Also the treatments that were provided were pretty basic by todays standards and much less expensive to implement.

Today the snowflakes can't look after themselves and any slight problem is a major illness to be dealt with a the flick of a button for instant gratification like any other problem that they encounter.

Families don't look after their own and expect the state to pick up the tab however expensive that may be.

The NHS has to continue to be reformed and made fit for purpose but the other elements surrounding it have to alse be taken into account. Just playing party politics with it and assuming that somehow it was in some kind of golden age under either party in the past is just to be very naïve.

As illustrated in Nomadking's post the problems are not unique to the NHS but Europe wide.

There needs to be a serious discussion about how much treatment the NHS will provide free at the point of delivery. Obviously A&E but what about elective proceedures such as breast operations and IVF?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Breast operations? I hope you are not including breast cancer treatment.After all a woman who has to lose a breast as a consequence may not have the wherewithal to pay for reconstructive surgery.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I largely agree with you. Especially how people will shout privatisation so no progress will ever be made. I think the whole debate around nationalisation vs privatisation cripples this country as people dogmatically insist on either one or the other irrespective of circumstance. A problem which doesn't exist on the continent who are a lot more pragmatic about this kind of thing.

One point about the French model though is not it's not quite free at the point of use. You do have to pay upfront for some minor things and then later get reimbursed depending on various forms of public and private insurance you can get.

As important as free at the point of use to me is the ease of use. Anything that gets into paperwork, reimbursements and so on I think should be avoided. As well as the cost of the America system the stress of getting the correct paperwork, taxes and coverage in addition to becoming sick must be horrible.

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

Is this really the issue?

It seems the biggest burdens on the NHS are an aging population, obesity and alcohol. In 1948 there were fewer old people relative to the population and fewer treatments available. I am not sure the problem with the NHS is snowflakes using it for minor conditions.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I did say elective. Reconstruction after cancer certainly should be done in the NHS but then we get this:

Source

No wonder money is short. :rolleyes:

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The NHS is having to cope with far more people with far more complicated problems for far longer than has ever been the case. It's also having to deal with the problems caused by short sighted cuts in social care but let's not pretend that serious problems have only ever happened under one colour of government. The amount of money being spent on PFI is staggering and could far better have been spent sorting out the fundamental issues. It's ironic that many people seem to be complaining about the NHS whilst at the same time demanding ever more from it by way of all sorts of services never originally envisaged, going to GP's when they don't really need to and abusing our A&E's/ambulance services with the most trivial complaints... :spin:

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

It's not THE problem because there are many but it is a significant problem as anyone who works in a GP surgery or A&E will tell you.

So what we have is a perfect storm a rapidly growing population which will inevitably result in an ever increasing amount of elderly to care for and keep alive at all costs even when they want to be allowed to die... :shrug:

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

This piece by orthopaedic surgeon Michael Wilkinson helps define the problems and offers some possible solutions. Well worth a read.

(Yes, I know it's in the Sun but don't shoot the messenger)

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I would support something like this - it’s what my son does at the moment, as he is on a Working Tourist Visa in Oz.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think certainly in A&E and GPs it could be a problem but just in terms of cost and pressure elsewhere on the system I doubt it accounts for much. A&E seems to have a lot of issues that arise from binge drinking.

As for the idea of allowing people to die that's a whole other interesting topic that could go on for a while....:D

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The card idea is nonsense. All the health tourists have to do is see a GP and a NHS number is issued. Same would go for a card of any sort. Also they would easily fake them or simply borrow somebody else's.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Actually life expectancy is now plateauing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8131526.html
I have been in and out of hospital with my elderly mother, who is in failing health with heart failure, several times over the last few months. They've never admitted her although I'm sure they should have done as more than once I've had to bring her back next day, or paramedics have had to take her back in. Getting her in and out of the house is a major exercise and very risky given she can hardly walk. There are basically no beds and if you've got anyone at home, they just send you home - false economy giving we have call the ambulance out several times - not for minor things, collapsing and not being able to breathe... It's an impossible situation for the NHS and anyone that needs it at the moment (and my hospital is supposedly one of the best performing trusts in the country !)

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

NHS chiefs needs to stop playing with numbers and Statistics. These are real peoples lives. Theresa May and Hunt trying to play down the issues, won’t wash, not when real people are suffering. LBC was discussing how a woman lost her son after waiting over 14 hours to receive treatment.

This is negligence and negligence is a form of physical and psychological abuse.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Ambulance A&E delays hit 1 in 8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42560312

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I think he very least they can do is reverse cuts to social care to free up some beds/resources that have overflown into the NHS. Either way it's going to take time.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I was taken into hospital in October and spent almost 3hrs in the back of an Ambulance before being offloaded.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

In the short term, the Government needs to increase spending on social care and the NHS. This will almost certainly have to be through increased borrowing or taxation. It is unlikely to be at the expense of projects like HS2, Brexit and Hinckley Point.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

£13.3bn. spent on foreign aid in 2016 can't find figure for last year but why not use this to support our country's needs

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

0.7% of our national income Smurf. A small price to pay, and in our interests, to try and stop the rest of the World imploding. It wouldn't rescue the NHS.

However £350m a week (£18.2bn a year) from the EU would go further. Saw on the side of a bus , so it must be true....

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

i would rather spend the money on our citizens but if they don't matter to you why moan about the NHS you need to put that brexit hiss'y fit to bed we haven't left yet .

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Presumably because the Government thinks it's in the UK interests to do this.
But no reason that all spending shouldn't be re-examined in light of this Winter's problems.
But looks like there are severe pressures elsewhere with a £20bn black hole in the MoD's budget.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Because the foreign aid is supposed to go towards education, better medical suppplies, training teachers and DR's and to help rid the spread of viruses that we got rid of a long time ago.

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:50 ----------

There as been an email going around at the min.

Registered Nurses only



Dear Colleagues,



We have vacant shifts up to and including the night shift of 14th January 2018 within:

· Abdominal Medicine and Surgery

· Emergency and Speciality Medicine



These shifts qualify for a financial bonus if they form a minimum of 22.5 hours worked in addition to your contracted hours, between the night shift of 29th December 2017 up to and including the night shift of 14th January 2018.

£200 bonus providing 22.5hrs have been met inc your contracted hours.

So it's really bad at the min where I am

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

You can't just keep chucking shedloads of money into the NHS. We need a thorough investigation into the way this organisation works, including how better use of technology, less waste, improving home care services, more use of volunteers and adopting ideas from the best health care services operating abroad could make it more efficient. We also need to look again at what the NHS provides free at the point of delivery. Visitors to this country should be charged and to assist the process, they should be required to have health insurance before passing border control.

As a temporary measure, perhaps the NHS should arrange for more operations to be carried out abroad to reduce the backlog.

I think the reckless waste of taxpayer's money should cease. Nobody would seriously run a business the way the NHS is run. The whole thing should be decentralised, with hospitals, surgeries, etc running independently of government bureaucracy.

It is essential that we take the politics out of this. You cannot manage the NHS from the House of Commons, and 'weaponising' the NHS is a disgusting concept. This is about people's lives, not politicians and their egos.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

That's why I said as a short-term measure, we need to spend more money on social care and the NHS.
I don't know what you mean by the weaponise jargon but it's an important issue that comes up at every election so shouldn't be off limits in discussions and elections. You will never get the politics out of tax-payee/NI-funded organisations unless you're in a country like North Korea.
The NHS is quite a decentralised organisation. Local hospitals are independent trusts and GPs surgeries, dispensing pharmacists and opticians are all independently run. Some say this is part of the problem with different systems from one NHS provider to the next.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

thats changing though so all these systems are starting to talk to each other so even though they are a different organisation you can access their information.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

That sounds like a step in the right direction. Still unsure why after 20 years + of email, so many GPs surgeries and pharmacists are so dependent on fax machines!

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Because a lot of documentation is still hand written, some has to be like nursing notes, some drugs need to be recorded hand written.

All that may change though with the roll out of tablets across the trusts. They haven't hit our ward yet probably just the inpatient ones.

They are trying to cut down on paper work as all this needs to be inputted off site. I was told the mounds of paper work alone just from the back care advisors that do my key training that there is a small wharehouse full of paper work about 100,000 folders going back 25 years that is all still waiting to be inputted into digital format and they are getting through it slowly.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

And of course scanners haven't existed all that long.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Hospital managers have learned that they cause "mayhem" by pushing departments to book procedures for the winter, knowing full well that they will have to be cancelled and cause a kickback against the government.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

The problem with the idea of not scheduling operations for the winter is that this is a 3 to 4 month period where the crisis can hit. Whilst they might have to explore this you can't have a quarter of the year written off for operations especially when for at least half of that time you will likely have the capacity to perform the operations.

As for the idea it's some sort of callous conspiracy from hospitals is there any evidence there is an abnormally high amount of operations booked for January?

---------- Post added at 17:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------

Ultimately it's the politicians who are responsible for the running of the National Health Service. It's typically those who do not want to be held political responsible that urge something isn't politicised. In the end it is a political issue.

I think for a start it's would be easier to take the politics out of this if there were political consensus on how to reform the NHS. You can have a cross-party committee and I think there is a good argument for that but I can't imagine them coming to an agreement.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Our local NHS Trust said they would "taper off" scheduled procedures (that would require time on a ward) prior to the winter influx of (flu) patients, only "returning to normal operations" once beds started to be cleared. Day surgeries were not affected, neither were out-patient appointments.

That was for the winter of 2016/2017, and it was successful.

No sign of this policy this winter though.

A big stumbling block that is causing bed-blocking is the lack of council services available to support recovering patients in their own homes. And that is just down to budget management and "austerity".

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Bed blocking is a issue for our department as well, some are on kick beds but again everything is slow to put in motion for outside services often left for the wards themselves to sort out causing hours of lost man hours chasing round just to get a healthy patient off the wards

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Home care and relying on council/social services is a societal issue as well as political. At one time families were more closely cohesive so when care was needed the family would provide it. Now the family is more dispersed and so isn't always as available to provide that role. Yes there is always the need for more specialist cover in some cases.

But there are only finite resources that need to be managed. But that management isn't always very good and as resources shrink but cost increase managers appoint more managers to help manage the shortfall creating more shortfall.

My grandmother used to say that hospitals need to return staff positions like matron to "rule" the wards, someone with experience that could apply common sense rather than the risk adverse "silliness" that can cause so many difficulties.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I'm sorry, but politicians should definitely not be running the NHS. They can set the funding arrangements, standards and principles, but the day to day running and management of the organisation should be left to managers.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Typical of our politicians never giving a straight truthful answer to simple straight questions.:(

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3733866.html

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Perhaps we should follow Scotland?
Or perhaps not.

France?
Switzerland?
The problems occur EVERYWHERE that the different flu viruses are active.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I don't think there are many first world countries having to delay cancer treatment because of a lack of staff.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...taff-t6nswqm5b

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42572116

This is getting horrendous if people can't even die with dignity. The govt. seem to be using flu as the excuse, but a bad flu winter was predicted months ago. What extra provision was made ?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Absolutely unacceptable no matter what ones politics is as the big flashing warning signs had been there for a long while.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I have highlighted instances around the world where there are medical staff shortages. That is likely to cover ALL areas, so it's likely they DO have similar delays.

That was from 2007, after 10 years of a Labour Government with their post-2000 splurge on spending.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

My daughters a Nurse in Edinburgh, she reckons 4 out of 10 of the people she sees, leave without needing any treatment. Think we are a large part of the problem.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Generation snowflake: A sneeze and it's ebola, tiny cough and straight to the GP demanding antibiotics, smallest cut and it's tetanus.

Whatever happened to first aid and common sense?

No wonder the NHS is collapsing under the strain of non-illness.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

yes, they must be snowflakes if they are dying in corridors. As for waiting for cancer treatment, they should have more patience I guess.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Point. Missed. :rolleyes:

If the NHS wasn't overwhelmed by snowflakes then the desperately ill would get the treatment that they need.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

A&E does not represent the whole of the NHS. It's you that's missed the point.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Which is why there should be an upfront charge applied to time wasters.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

It does seem odd when I get admitted for having a lump on my knee! Seems a bit excessive to me.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

And how would they decide if they are timewasters or not? as its not as simple as ABC especially if some get sent packing only to come back with a serious illness that was not diagnosed and picked up when they were there the last time.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

But you have mitigating circumstances.

I'm talking about the huge base load of non problems that people used to be able to deal with themselves. This just overloads the NHS unnecessarily.

Just throwing ever spiraling amounts of money at it is not the solution.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Jeremy Hunt thinks that's the solution, although it has taken him a while to come up with that genius idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-winter-crisis

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

No but when there is a crisis, ward nurses get taken off normal duties to go and work in A&E, that’s one Of the reasons ops get cancelled

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

there are over 100,000 vacancies in the NHS; it just might be a factor.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/health-s...overtime-free/

Tell you what's a good idea, indicate to any remaining EU staff that they are not welcome any longer.. Or make student nurses take out loans for their own training...

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I agree its wrong to have students paying for their training. On your other point, if we didn't go running to hospital with every sniff, would we need 100,000 extra staff?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Trying to deflect blame to the public, is letting the govt off the hook.

(I have no time for A&E time wasters believe me. I have been in a cubicle with my son been told he has a very serious illness with a couple of drunks in the next cubicle).

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Its not deflecting, i'm saying we are part of the problem. The government are also part of the problem just like the Labour party have been part of the problem in years gone by.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Possibly we are part of the problem, we keep getting older, and keep voting in parties on the basis of low taxes. We do need to get real if want a Health Service.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

13 years of Labour with >100 new stealth taxes and yet the NHS didn't get any better?

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Why? I had to pay for mine!!

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

I didn't.

Re: Crisis in the NHS
 

Nor did any of our family and friends who worked or are still working for the NHS.