Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A gagging clause prevents me.

I do agree that the publicity over Mansize Tissues won't have done KC any harm.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Yes, I'm totes sure that really happened.

And finally you get there.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

And there was me thinking that you were now able to have a proper conversation without resorting to rudeness, sarcasm and sanctimony. You do realise that people are now able to put you on ignore dont you?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I doubt it.

They can't stop people using mobiles while driving or hogging the middle lane.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The authorities pay lip service to it as usual.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It might also be something to do with the 20,000 cut in police officers since 2010. They just don't have the resources, but it's what we keep voting for....

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

l don't disagree with that either Mr K as you rarely see any Police on the roads nowadays.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

simply throw a ciggy or sweet wrapper out of the car window, you'll see loads then ;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That's funny, because that's the only place I see them now, in their cars waiting to catch speeding motorists. It's far more fun than catching burglars and dealing with the real crimes that people are worried about.

---------- Post added at 09:20 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

Exactly!:D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sounds like the last 2 posters have had traffic tickets ! ;)

Speeding motorists kill, internet trolls are an irritating nuisance that can be ignored. As the police have less resources than ever before, they have to prioritise.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well you might see them but they are pretty non existent on the roads where we travel.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Are they perhaps hiding in hedges with their cameras i your part of the world, Den? :D

---------- Post added at 13:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Wrong again, Mr K, I keep to the speed limits.

The issue aboit speeding motorists is well overblown. The vast majority of motorists know that they have exceeded the speed limit at on time or another. The vast majority of them do not kill, as you seem to suggest.

The Chief Constable who is suggesting that motorists should be prosecuted for travelling 31 mph in a 30 mph limited area shows just how out of proportion this issue has become with the police.

That we should have sensible measures to punish reckless driving and hate messages on the internet is not disputed. But we do have to be proportionate, given limited resources.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Online harrassment can also lead to loss of life too. Some people have been driven to or encouraged to commit suicide. This is often young people and those with mental health illnesses/disabilities or learning difficulties.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There are almost 20,000 casualties on our roads every year, where excessive speed was a contributing factor. Around 400 of them are fatal. Without minimising the hurt online abuse causes to those who suffer it, it is nevertheless fair to say that online trolling is a minuscule problem compared to road safety and policing resources should obviously be deployed accordingly.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Non speeding motorists kill, whats your point exactly ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Speeding and dangerous driving is more likely to kill and it is a more serious criminal offence than trolling I guess.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I think that the answer is to properly fund the police so that all crimes can be investigated, though I suspect that the police have gone for the low hanging fruit for years to get their stats up.

The police i've spoken to say that they hate interactive social media sites because they take up far too much of their time, maybe this is why Ofcom are bidding to implement the german reforms in the UK to nip abuse, grooming, harrassment etc in the bud before it becomes a police matter??

If more properly trained moderators need to be employed to keep an eye on the users of these sites and promptly deal with any innapropriate posts, then so be it. I'm sure the likes of Facebook can afford it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Hostility to the elderly now under review and may be classed as a hate crime:

https://www.homecare.co.uk/news/arti...-as-hate-crime

This could mean the addition of older people being added as a 'protected characteristic'.

It was on the news that crimes against older people have increased by 260% over the past few years. It's a real shame that even the elderly aren't immune to attack by hateful people.
Don't parents bring their children up to show respect for their elders anymore?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Respect has to be earned it is not a given. ;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The way we're going we might as well add the moniker 'hate' to any crime, we're not far off getting there, which kinda diminishes it, this society it's laughable at how it ties itself up in knots doing stuff.

(and before anyone chimps up i'm not laughing at hate crime...)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, there can't be many groups of people you could think of that are not covered by equality or hate legislation, so you can't help wondering why on Earth such rules should be applied to one section of the population and not the other. It defies logic and should be resolved.

Everyone should be prorected against discriminatory behaviour, hate crime, and have the right to be treated fairly and equally. The only legislation required identifying a particular group is for people with disabilities who require reasonable adjustments. Separate legislation for hate crime is unnecessary because the definition of that is misunderstood and can be interpreted in different ways. All threats, physical and emotional violence should be treated the same and punished accordingly. That's what people understand.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There's a difference between treating someone with respect and respecting them as an individual. Your comment applies to the latter, but not the former IMO.

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

The reasoning behind it is because certain minority and disadvantaged groups are more likely to be discriminated against, targeted or treated less favourably because of the protected group that they belonged to. As society wishes to stamp this out, this is deemed to be worse than a random attack and the punishments are more severe.

I agree that everyone should be protected against unacceptable behaviour, but an elderly or disabled person for example, is likely to suffer more severely than a young able bodied person and less likely to be able to defend themselves.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What is the difference - people earn respect, it shouldn't just be given (that's different from being polite to everyone, which I think you should, unless they have given reason for not to be polite).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I understand your point, but it has gone too far. What about ugly people, people with spots, people with ginger hair? Where will it end? We have tied ourselves in knots over this and as a country, we are starting to look ridiculous.

Time for a re-think, I say.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, there are people that I have respect for and people that I show respect to (regardless of whether I respect them or not).

I aren't a Catholic, but attended a Catholic church service and was introduced to the priest. It was the first time that i'd met him, so it would be unreasonable for me to respect him as an individual. However, I treated him, his position and the good work that he does with the utmost of respect.

I don't think that there are many situations where impoliteness is ever valid.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Interesting that the Public Order Act 1986 (which prohibits actions intended to cause harrassment, alarm or distress through the use of threatening, abusive or insulting words or signs) has been used to charge the individuals responsible for the vile video mocking the Grenfall residents. I've only ever come across this being used for verbal or written (including electronic) words, that's not to say it's never been used for offensive videos before.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224

I had assumed that they would have used the Communications Act, which carries a prison sentence of up to six months.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It remains to be seen whether this holds up in court. They will have to prove intent. The accused would probably say they were just having a laugh.

Clearly, this was a dispicable act, but I doubt that it was criminal.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I guess we'll have to wait and see. It's just been on the news that those responsible have given themselves up without having to be traced, which should go in their favour and that a number of houses have been searched and items removed.

You'd think that if this sort of behaviour appeals to them that they would have had the sense not to post it on the internet!

Whatever happens with the police, I think that they will probably receive short thrift from their local community.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

They may well have put it on the internet to 'give people a laugh' and in the hope that it would go viral. It is quite possible that they did not anticipate the actual reaction they received.

Very nieve.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I agree, it was in very poor taste, but getting the police involved is going too far.

The thought police will be on their way before you know it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Seems to be typical of todays snowflake society: The total overreaction to what is in reality a minor event but blown up out of all proportion by the press and politicians for their own ends and the police going along with the nonsense.

Meanwhile the rising tide of knife crime, murders, burglaries etc continues unabated.

No doubt the keyboard warriors are already formulating their death threats to those involved blind to the irony of their actions. :rolleyes:

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The men who did this say that they now fear for their lives and deny being racist.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Not the outcome they expected.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I suppose it's part and parcel of them getting tougher on this sort of thing.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

I can see where your coming from, but a zero tolerance to internet bullying etc could well prevent the perpetrators going on to do things in person.

I do believe that, as austerity took hold, some things weren't dealt with and we are now reaping the result of this.

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

Absolutely, maybe some good can come out of this though and it will encourage more people to think twice before uploading anything objectionable on the internet.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Objectionable in whose opinion ?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That's part of the problem. These guys just thought it was funny and probably had no idea it would cause widespread offence.

They know now.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The fact these people's names will be all over the internet for years to come relating to this is a greater punishment than the police can ever give. All because of one stupid stunt.

I do wonder what on earth they were thinking. I find it bizarre they even went the trouble of producing little cardboard people to represent those who died and recorded the whole thing whilst shouting 'jump', it's a lot of effort to go to that you wonder if it ever crossed their minds how dumb it was.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

A former chief prosecutors view.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

once you go down this road, it's a hand cart to hell.

You make offending someone a criminal act.

In regards to this particular stunt, did I find it funny....no, did I think it in poor taste....yes. Was I offended by it........NO.

If I had friends or relatives die in that tower of course I would think differently.......but it's still subjective.

to use the Malicious Communications Act is tenuous and I don't think it was written for this type of incident.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/27/section/1

it's more to do with a directed attack on an individual, not something that is broadcast.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The problem is, Den, that some people draw offence from the smallest things these days. Where do you draw the line?

Have you watched any comedy shows lately? Most gags used these days are going to offend somebody.

No, I think we should not do anything which restricts free speech any further and we do not want to get sucked into a police state.

I thought we left 1984 behind a long time ago.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

l agree.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

Indeed it was in very poor taste but was l personally offended by it and the answer is no.

---------- Post added at 09:59 ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 ----------

Other then them being arrested l would be pretty surprised if charges are levelled at them and it ends up in court.

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 ----------

l could get offended every day if l wanted to but it takes a lot to offend me nowadays as l just let things ride over me nowadays as there are far more important things to think about in life IMO.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Also can this law be applied to the burning of other effigies such as Boris Johnson etc?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Everything trivial these days gets magnified to excess, simply because we don't really have anything 'proper' to worry about, so we think triviality is really really important.

I'd guarantee if we had a proper crisis to worry about, all this bs would evaporate in a heartbeat.

My parents who lived and served through WW2 could show the modern generation a thing or two about things to be offended/concerned about.

It's all about perspective, there's nothing out there as a threat to concentrate peoples minds. In my day we were all concerned about being nuked and the 4 minute warning etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

And up to 10 years ago, there wasn’t the instant connectivity/escalation/viral explosions of stuff like this, due to social media and click bait headlines in the online media, and the need to fill the 24x7 news cycle.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

"Objectionable" is subjective and just an opinion. And just because someone considers an action to be objectionable does not automatically mean anything needs to be done about it.

IMO there are far too many "I don't like it so I want it banned" types out there. Don't get me wrong, there does need to be regulation on what is broadcasted/transmitted etc.

There are plenty of things I've seen/read/heard online that have offended me. Unless it has broken the law my default reaction is to switch off, leave the website, look elsewhere etc. The world does not revolve around what I like or dislike.

The Grenfell bonfire idiots - should they be prosecuted? I'm not sure which law they've broken, Not 100% certain a Public Order charge will stick. Were they stupid to do it and do they deserve the wrath of the public? I'd say hell-to-the-yeah. Should they have been stopped from uploading that video of them doing what they did? I disagree. Sure it must have been upsetting for the relatives of the victims but if someone wants to show footage of how stupid they are then I say go right ahead.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, it could be anybody who is sent or comes across the material.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Apparently, they are currently being dealt with under a law more serious than section 5 of the Public Order Act because Theresa May changed it. Until she did this, it was possible to prosecute somebody who would have been offended by something if they had of been there at the time it took place (but were not).

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

The law is supposed to protect everyone, not just things that affect us personally.

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------

The internet is a major part of the issue itself. If someone says something verbally offensive or sends them something offensive in the post that's one thing, but to effectively do it in front of potentially millions of other people makes it a whole different ball game.

It's much more serious and evidence is easier to obtain.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Objectional is subjective I agree e.g. a vegan may find footage of the slaughter of animals offensive, whilst many will not.

To deal with this, i'm assuming that the UK will take on a large number of properly trained moderators and have transparent policies, guidelines etc that can be appealed against, so that the new initiative to deal with online offences won't become too burdensome on the police or judicial system.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Or give it to take away.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Also known as the thought police. Many would say such people already exist in the media.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, that just shows that such a law cannot work. Anything you say these days is objectionable according to someone.

You cannot protect everyone from hearing things they don't want to hear. Therein lies madness.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Exactly. Some people indeed need to grow a pair, others genuinely deserve protecting but deciding who fits in either category is a minefield which will never be without criticism.

One way round it would be for people to always communicate with others on the internet in a polite, respectful and friendly manner. I think it's the perceived anonymity that brings out the worst in some people.

Snide remarks, malicious sarcasm, questions made in bad faith etc are the preserve of these guys:


https://itstillworks.com/difference-between-troll-cyberbully-5054.html


And yes, there is a difference between a troll and a cyber bully...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

I cannot quite work out if you really are as naive as you sound, or just on a wind up.

The world is full of different people, with different views, different tastes etc etc.
Its not some fluffy fantasy land full of rainbows, unicorns and everyone being nice to each other.

You cannot police opinion.

Are you having a laugh (again) ?
The government are cutting back on everything (including real police officers) so they sure as hell aren't going to pay for a load of "moderators".

(and who will be moderating the moderators ?)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

You're expecting humans to act against human nature? Some less than others undoubtedly but nobody on the planet is capable of being like that 100% of the time.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

It's not the different views etc that are the problem, it's about people treating each other with respect and kindness. Yes, there are some dreadful people in the world, but the goal should be to bring them up to a decent level of communicating with others. Over the years this has slowly but surely improved e.g. terminology routinely used when I was a child is now (at the very least) socially unacceptable.

I think that education is the best way to do it but, unfortunately, more formal action is sometimes neccessary.

The Government wouldn't be paying the salaries of the moderators, if would be the social networking sites etc that would meet the cost if the German model is adopted as Ofcom have proposed. I think there's a good chance that if will be because, as you rightly say, the Government isn't putting enough resources into general policing as it is.

If either party disagreed with the moderator decision, they would be able to take it further, probably Ofcom.

---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

Yes, everybody has their off days or is 'baited', but i'm talking about mean spirited or deliberately malicious things that are uploaded. If it makes people think carefully before posting something then it can only be a good thing.

Free speech is a right not afforded to many in the world and shouldn't be abused.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

This is an interesting link, as somebody tried to run a site with no restrictions on what people were able to say. The result was a tirade of anti semantic, homophobic etc abuse and death threats:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/indep...1_20181109_4_2

It was effectively shut down as payment providers PayPal & Stripe withdrew support, as did the domain owner Go Daddy and server host Joyent.

I agree with the author when he says that free speech is not hate speech and that people should be free to converse, express, debate and discuss, but not to abuse, demonise and vilify others in the process.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Who appoints themselves are the decider between those 2?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Under the proposed system, it would be the recipient of such material or someone who comes across it. They would report it to an impartial moderator who would take into account all views and the law after full training had been given. If either party didn't agree with the outcome, they would be free to appeal to a higher body, take their own legal action etc.

I think that the aim would be to settle most incidents amicalably and informally (much like the current ombudsmen services that exist).

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So the snowflakes win. No thanks. Tell them to go to their safe space and stop accessing the internet. Problem solved.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Most people won't notice any difference whatsoever, they'll continue to interact with people from all walks of society in a polite, respectful and friendly manner.

It's the minority who cause problems for others who will have to improve their behaviour if they wish to use the internet.

What is it that you'd want to say that this would prevent you from saying?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What I am saying is that your approach is a step nearer to the thought police. A huge problem is that we all have a different opinion of what is acceptable.

If you draw the line at threatening behaviour, everyone understands that.

---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------

Starting with oneself, of course. ;)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

They can only get tough on UK based people, people outside the UK can and will say "Fuff you"

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

This is an excellent example of what I was referring to when I mentioned posts that were malicious in nature and purposely designed to stir things up. The accusation is also very ironic, given that at one point you were running rings around a member with learning difficulties who has since stopped posting.

You didn't answer my question as to what it is that you feel you would be prevented from saying when Ofcom (or whoever) clamp down on innapropriate postings.

Everyone does indeed have a different approach to what is acceptable, which is why fully trained and impartial moderators (paid for by the sites) will look at reports and make a decision as to what action, if any, needs to be taken (whilst taking into account that they have a duty of care to their users, some who may have specific needs or problems). This could be anything from dismissing the complaint, to giving a word of advice, to varying sanctions right through to legal action.

Any party who felt aggrieved would be able to appeal to a higher body or take legal action themselves, but most people are reasonable and I expect that the majority will behave with good grace.

The vast majority of people manage to use the internet without trying or actually causing problems for other (often vulnerable, disadvantaged or minority groups) in any way.

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

It's intended that regulators from around the world will come together to perform a 'global assault' on those who use the internet innapropriately:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...buses-protect/

The term 'innapropriately' covers everything from grooming children, to fraud to the harrassment of (often vulnerable) people be it due to age, physical or mental disability, sexuality etc.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Anyone who genuinely thinks this will work successfully is either weapons-grade naive or lives with their head in the sand.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Unless they are in Russia then Putin will say Get Stuffed.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

ROFL. :rofl:

I look forward to you paying my salary. :)

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Not so, Richard. Rather, this is an excellent demonstration of offence taken where none was intended.

I was merely pointing out that we should all practice what we preach.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Me too.:D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Of course we should, but you have a habit of repeatedly being offensive and then playing the innocent when pulled up about it. You seem to relish in being antagonistic and stirring things up, even to the point of referring to other members as "sparring partners". A debate doesn't have to be a fight of any sort.

It's interesting that you have still chosen not to answer my question as to what it is that you would be prevented from saying by this initiative.



---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

I have offered to help fund the site, but there's no reason that moderators will have to be paid for hobbyist sites like this. I would expect the big players like Facebook etc to pay people for their services though.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Expect away...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, they will have to in order to attract professionally trained moderators. I doubt that people will be willing to work for them on a voluntary basis!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Hello....calling reality....come in please....

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Richard, I was not being offensive. Read my post again. Why would you find anything offensive in my words?

You pick up on my use of the words 'sparring partners' and make me sound as though I was picking a fight. What I was doing was talking about those who seemed always to disagree with me on things, to our mutual enjoyment.

I think maybe you should re-visit your own posts over time and see whether these fit the bill of being 'kind' to others.

I am not out to pick fights, I am here to debate topics. If you don't want to hear alternative points of view to your own, don't post, and steer away from discussion forums.

We need to be tolerent of each other.

In answer to your question, I have answered it by saying that it is threats and threatening behaviour that should be looked into by the police. Anything less than that should not be. I am really quite offended by your post, but it is not a police matter, is it?

By your definition, we wouldn't be able to have any meaningful debates on here and we would all lose out as a result.

If I disagree with you, it is not personal, so stop taking it personally. Please.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That assumes they will have to attract professionals trained moderators - I have seen no evidence there will be a legal requirement for them to do this (or for any sort of moderator...).

There will be a meeting next year to discuss issues - it’s a giant leap from that to what you’re proposing.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

True, but this is what Germany have done and Ofcom seem to want to model their scheme upon theirs. Whilst there isn't a requirement for them to recruit an army of moderators, I think that the new 'duty of care' requirements will lead to this.

I've also attended a fair number of meetings regarding this and it does look like this is how the problem will be tackled by the sites, but you are correct, nothing definate has been decided yet.

---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

I have no problem whatsover with discussing alternative points of view.
<comments removed>

Going back on topic, what type of threats do you think should be covered by this initiative and which shouldn't?

Do you think that abuse, harrassment etc should be covered or that vulnerable groups should be afforded more protection?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Thats enough.
This [professional] moderator (Administrator) is getting tired of your attitude.
If your going to be offended by everyone who disagrees with you, might I suggest moving on.

Oh, and what's a "vulnerable group" ?
Who decides if they are 'vulnerable' (or even a 'group') ?
No matter how many ways you look at it, its all subjective, one persons opinion v another persons.

The Police clearly cannot cope with all the crime atm, without wasting resources on this.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

<removed>

On your question about protecting vulnerable groups more - how the hell does anyone know which posters are from vulnerable groups? Should we label them?

The whole thrust of your posts on this subject are impractical, unworkable and well over the top. I am not the only one saying this to you.

I am not attempting to antagonise anyone, Richard and I have not made any personal remarks to you in the post that you have taken exception to.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Groups that need extra protection are those vulnerable by definition, such as children, those with mental or physical disabilities etc or those who have historically been the subject of harrassment, bullying, abuse etc, such as members of the LGBT+ communities, non white people etc.

There are many ways that such people can be identified e.g. self definition, photographs, things picked up (or suspected) during the course of a conversation etc.

To clarify, these are not soley my ideas, but I am interested in garnering the views of others in a subjective capacity.

Do you think that these groups should be afforded more protection?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

No.

Why should certain, arbitary groups, get special treatment ?

Why do you think everyone else starts to resent these groups.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

The only way this could even get off the ground as an idea is if the people posting on the internet are labelled, and who wants that?

There is no way the public would accept such a thing, let alone Parliament.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

As someone who has a 'mental disability' (2 actually, ADHD and Aspergers) I don't want or need protection thanks.

And one thing that gets my goat is people deciding that I do.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Because they are systematically oppressed, harrassed, discriminated against etc. Most people seem to have eventually accepted and embraced diversity and the belief that persons in the defined protected groups shouldn't be treated less favourably than others.

These groups were chosen for good reasons and not on a whim.

---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Not every disabled person is able to defend themselves. Should you suffer online abuse etc you won't be forced or obliged to use the protection afforded to you.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

No idea where you've got the labelling thing from, this is not part of the initiative at all.

I see you've evaded another question put to you.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

They should not be treated more favourably than others either.

"Good reasons" in your opinion, nothing more.


I have warned you once, this is the last time, if I see you baiting others again I will put you on a forced rest period.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What happens when certain people lie about something that has happened and then fail to provide evidence when asked, even by moderators then scream harassment. What protection does that person get when they are accused of abuse and harassment that didn't happen?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

If contributors to a forum are not labelled, how would you know to treat them differently? Your plan makes no sense.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Very good point. Will it come to the stage where anyone joining a forum or creating a social media account has to reveal any and all disabilities they have?

Would this then work against them in some cases? For example, a person who is an excellent online gamer is unable to become a member of an online gaming clan because they have Tourettes and swear constantly while playing.
Are they then said to be discriminated against because of the Tourettes or is it simply the clan rules that specify no swearing or cussing is allowed from anyone? Do they make an exception for that player, or will that cause unrest among the other members because the person is treated differently . . . . which sort of then discriminates against those players?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There are instances where if would be appropriate to treat a vulnerable person more favourably, in fact the law requires this where appropriate.

The 'good reasons' that I cite are not merely my opinion. The systematic oppression, abuse and prejudice of Jewish people, black people, gay people, women etc is historically factual.

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

It isn't 'my plan', don't know where you've got that from.

Labels would be undesirable and innapropriate for a whole host of reasons, so aren't part of the initiative However, those with protected characteristics would still be covered by the appropriate legislation.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

All very good questions. Nobody has to declare that they have any type of disability, but may choose to do so. This is usually done as a matter of practicality for all concerned, or could be done to alert others that adjustments in the provision of goods and services are required or just as a matter of courtesy to explain an unusual pattern of behaviour.

In your Tourettes example, the non disabled players would be expected to make provision for the needs of the disabled player.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

And if children are playing, what provision could be made to stop them hearing obscenities?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

What if I don't want that though?

What if I, as someone you class as 'vulnerable' due to my mental disabilities don't want to be treated any differently?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Sensible arrangements would have to be agreed by all parties.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Well, it's the plan you are advocating, but you haven't addressed the question which is fundamental to that plan.

So you want certain groups of people to be protected from comments that most of us will not be protected from. The elephant in your room is that unless those minority groups are labelled, we won't know who we have to treat more carefully than those people that we speak to in a normal way. We can't be expected to treat some people more gently if we don't know who they are.

For that reason, it won't work as you have described it, but the whole thing stinks anyway, so it will not come about.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

When I say "vulnerable" i'm referring to the descriptor used in (amongst other things) this initiative, as opposed to my opinion of you.

You don't have to disclose your disabilities to most people if you don't wish to and could certainly ask that any issues caused as a result of the affects of your disabilities is not taken into account or that provision is not made to take account of them.

Normally, the underlying reason to wanting to do this is because (like everybody else), disabled people have their pride and resent being thought of as less able than others or being treated any differently. The fact remains, however, that they are disabled and this will give rise to various issues during life. I've always found it best to just be completely honest.

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

You're concerns have been fully addressed in a previous response.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

So those who wanted to be treated differently will be labelled so that they can be identified. That's the point I was making. Glad we got there in the end!

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Easily done:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/11/8.jpg

:D

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Anyone in any doubt as to the challenges faced by various groups may find it useful to read this from a LGBT+ Jewish person and others. It relates to the forthcoming Trans Remembrance Day next Tuesday, where people murdered because of their differences are remembered:

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/our-wor...ay-remembrance

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

No. Go back and read what I said properly.

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

As a self identified gay man, i'm surprised at this. You will surely have come across the abuse (or worse) of others if not yourself.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

That really isn’t an answer, is it?

That’s the same as "something magic will happen"...

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Now you're moving the goalposts. Your wording was pretty clear and encompassing:

I'm in that group and I neither want or need protection (extra or standard-level) by you or anyone else. It really annoys the brown-stuff out of me when people take it upon themselves to decide I that I do.

---------- Post added at 19:27 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

How about letting him (and myself) decide whether protection is wanted or needed?

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

There isn't a clear cut answer. Sensible arrangements would need to be made to ensure that the disabled person has their needs met, whilst ensuring that young children aren't exposed to obscene language.

How would you manage the situation?

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

You already have that right and this will not change. If you feel that you don't need or want any help, you aren't obliged to take it.

However, just because you believe that you don't need any help, doesn't mean that others in a similar situation should be denied it.

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 

Perhaps because I don't get on my high horse at any perceived slight, real or imaginary. I have never received any abuse from members here related to my sexuality. Maybe because I don't push the agenda there is live and let live.

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.