Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Now the politically correct word police are on the warpath again.Where does this politically correct madness end?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Totally. They talk tough when it suits (normally around election time) but beneath all the rhetoric is the same old attitude towards mass immigration and the obsession with social engineering which lies behind it.

Given that Labour hasn't suggested that beefing up security in order to keep illegals penned up in squalor in Calais is wrong, I can only assume they agree with the policy and are more concerned about point scoring with regard to the the PM's chosen collective noun than any human suffering or long term security risk they pose to the UK and what Labour would do about it.
:rolleyes:

What those who say we should let them in refuse to acknowledge is the undeniable truth that we could let them all in tomorrow and even more would come, heartened by the news that getting into the UK had just been made easier. How many times could/should/would we be able to do this? The only real argument is about numbers isn't it? So my question to the 'let them in' brigade is what will they say to those who continue to come after the acceptable limit we've decided upon has been reached? Telling them we're full won't work, they'll continue to come in ever increasing numbers and they'll be mainly young men who'll increasingly distort the demographics of this country. It's rather like aggressive begging - you start out giving a little food or cash to someone and then they come to expect more. You give more and the word gets around so more people come. More needy people all of whom might deserve help but what do you do? What do you tell those you don't want to help and how would you feel if they decided to intimidate and threaten you into giving them more? Right now that's what we're facing in the EU and nobody seems willing to bite the bullet and acknowledge it can't be allowed to carry on let alone start tackling it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Isnt it strange that, there is all talk about the problems in Calais and at Dover.

And yet, they plan on putting up fencing, almost certainly will get pulled down. And yet, they can send in armed forces to protect the drivers. Who must be going through hell.

I personally think that the army or Navy for that matter, will ONLY be brought in if Haulage firms, say enough is enough and we will take legal action - which they can do.

If a company is prevented from proceeding his lawful way for work, and this is what drivers and haulage companies are doing - then l believe they can sue for damages.

And its the Government at fault for not doing enough to protect the innocent - am sure someone will tell me l am wrong

ALSO, what the government can do, is build fencing that is in prisons

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Think of lorry drivers stuck in Operation Stack for days on end.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Taf, totally agree with you

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Dam right there a swarm and there going to get bigger as the last groups that landed in Italy arrive . I now await the politically correct bunch to turn up and tell me what a bad man i am. Should i not be around when you get here this is my reply :upyours:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And this is what all the denial is causing in Germany:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33700624

Still, let's not worry about any of that. Let's just carry on pretending that it'll all be OK and any amount of migrants can be happily absorbed... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Let's put this here for the 'they come to England for the benefits' mob

http://mashable.com/2015/07/29/migra...lais-uk-myths/

Let's see you argue your way out of this one

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

100,000 estimated crossing the med to Europe 3000 estimated in Calais

Not exactly a huge percentage is it ?

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:02 ----------

In their comfortable cabs with beds TV hot food toilets? An inconvenience

And the people in the make shift camps in Calais we just don't give a **** about ?

Hang on what happens if a lorry driver is polish ? Do we feel for them then ? Or is it just British lorry drivers ?

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

Aaaah Arthur yet more wistful crap gushes forth from your mouth

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Maybe they are all coming because of how great our country is... :D

lol

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How is the number of recorded asylum seekers relevant? They only seek asylum once caught. Once they get this side of the channel, they are not turning themselves in. They seem to go to an awful lot of trouble not to get caught, so they must be doing BETTER than if they claimed asylum.

From 2010
January 2014

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If they don't get caught then they're therefore illegal yes ? Well illegal immigrants get no benefits

Listening to radio 4 this morning I think it was Kent social services saying about the number of asylum applications made by those under the age of 18 some as young as 12 has gone up five fold that have come via the camps in Calais.

most of them suffering from stress or ptsd mental health issues

Should we leave people who are basically children to rot in the squalor of Calais ?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

If they are not yet discovered then they are not in any figures.

Still doesn't address the FACT that if as illegals they have no money or accommodation, that they choose to stay that way rather than, get some income and housing from claiming asylum.

Claiming to be under 18 is a well known scam as they are put into foster care and then have a tendency to disappear. Even those that stay in foster care have a cushy number.

So stressed and yet they still made it all this way.:rolleyes:

Their parents AND the French abandoned them.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Delaying their applications for asylum is a good tactic - they can disappear and work for as long as it takes for them to be caught and then commence the protracted asylum process. The longer they can stay here the less likely it is that they'll ever be returned...

And as for the 'record amounts of unaccompanied minors' getting through the tunnel - I wonder how many are simply claiming to be minors. As anyone who's ever bothered to watch any of the immigration related documentaries will know, that's a standard technique for misleading the authorities too and when someone makes such a claim it has to be taken seriously even if the person appears to be older than they're claiming.

We really do have to stop making excuses for people who are in a perfectly safe country and could/should claim asylum there. The conditions they're currently suffering are of their own making and as a result of their own choices and I fail to see why we should treat them with more sympathy than the genuine refugees stuck in tents in places like Turkey. The only danger the migrants in Calais are in is the danger the cause to themselves and others but the reality is that they know the French system is a lot tougher to abuse than ours and that's the only reason they want to come here. I'm sorry but nowhere in the relevant law does it give illegal migrants the right to choose where they want to live or claim asylum.

Does anyone really believe that anyone stuck in Calais who's a couple of years (maybe even more) over 16, for example, is really going to admit it when they get here, knowing how much harder that will make the process they'll be going through? They're suddenly going to abide by the rules they've been ignoring for so long? Soooo much easier to say you're a minor and to hell with it. There's no punishment for making any such false claim so you have nothing to lose and a great deal to gain. Wake up and smell the coffee folks...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So, we abandon them too? Right?

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------


What a load of twaddle, do you actually believe the words, no sorry not words, complete and utter crap you're spouting?

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

http://shirtoid.com/wp-content/uploa...es-Problem.jpg

Seems to pretty much sum some people up on this thread.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:tu:

Lying about their age has been widespread amongst illegal migrants and asylum seekers for years. Only the naïve, deluded and those with a political agenda would deny that. It staggers me that some folks can look at the law breaking these people are engaged in every night and then seek to pretend that they be totally truthful and open in their dealings with the UK authorities once they get here. Seriously it's bordering on pathetic.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

1. Only very few truckers have any of these luxuries on board

2. I don't give a *** for the people in the makeshift camps, except that one day they might be here

3. I am concerned for ALL truckers

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:tu: @ Taff

Here we go again - playing the xenophobe card when your argument falls apart. It's as sad as it is laughable.

I wonder how long he'd put up with the 'luxury' these truckers are enduring on a regular basis and clearly a great many are foreign and suffering just as much through no fault of their own.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You don't feel sorry for a fellow human being? I really do pity your evident lack of empathy.


What exactly are you so scared that they're going to do????


---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

I was homeless and slept rough for eighteen months in my late teens, your point?

The polish lorry driver part was (an admittedly failed) humorous digest.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I don't disagree that something needs to be done about the camps and that we can't take in large amounts of immigrants. It's not feasible to do so and it would encourage the problem to get worse. I think that we should be willing to accept some of them should we come to a cross-Europe agreement to deal with the problem at source, not Calais, and for each nation to take in a percentage of them.

However that doesn't mean we should dehumanise these people, lack sympathy for their situation or imply that this is their fault. They are escaping horrific conditions back home which isn't their fault and I imagine any of us would do the same thing. I think some of the language and insinuations directed at them in this thread is getting close to crossing a line...

It's often remarked that you can't raise concerns about immigration without being labelled a racist but if the discussion about those reasonable concerns can't be had without referring to those involved as if they were vermin trying to invade your house then that is the natural result. It's right that concerns are addressed without the assumption that those rising them are prejudiced but equally it's right to expect that conversation to happen without nastiness creeping in. :angel:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

No pity required, I have learned that empathy is useless in most cases I have no control over. Often the situations others find themselves in are self-generated, so it's a touch of karma, sometimes deserved, sometimes not.

I could no more take in every homeless person I see, than feed every starving child. Neither do I try to console all those suffering a family bereavement, whether through illness, accident or murder in all its forms.

The entire world was royally screwed by the banking system, triggering events relating to a lack of money. Whether it was loss of your home, loss of your job, political upheaval, or an excuse for religious gangsters to start grabbing what they wanted at the expense of others' lives and livelihoods.

Crossing several borders, travelling through places you would be safe but not wanting to stay there, is not the definition of an asylum seeker. It is the definiton of an economic migrant, hellbent on getting to where they think they will be relatively rich at the expense of the people there.

The UK is not a charity. The UK cannot afford to be a charity. The UK needs to deny entry to these hordes of non-asylum seekers.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I think it's clear that a lot of these people have escaped from horrible conditions. Not everyone reads up on the rules of how to seek Asylum and they could have been lied to by the people to which they gave money to smuggle them too Europe. Even then they are likely to run to the place they feel will best give them a better life. You seem to be implying a lot of malice thought to them with I can't see there.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The definition of an economic migrant is someone that chooses to go to a place where they will be worse off financially than say, France, Germany or Sweden?



You and your ilk are the 'So long as I'm alright jack screw the rest of you' brigade aren't you?


Your statement on empathy is bewildering and sad to be honest.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

It's about time we spent more time, money and effort on our own citizens, and not on any old bod that turns up on our borders with their hands out.

Once we have our own lives and country in order, we could consider helping others, but not those who just want free handouts in their own countries, or buying influence, as is often the case of many "aid packages" our goverment squanders abroad.

Food Aid often depresses the market for the overseas farmers who get up off their backsides and do something to help themselves.

Financial Aid often ends up in the hands of the few and not the many it is directed at. And I reckon a lot of it goes to arm groups that want power over democracy, attacking groups they don't like, causing them to run away rather than stand and fight for their own rights.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yup, having pity only goes so far and for so many. We can't help all the world's needy and we have plenty of our own who'll be the ones who suffer even more as their services, jobs, housing and benefits come under pressure due to migration. I don't apologise for having more sympathy for them right now. Nobody dragged these migrants to Calais, nobody's preventing them claiming asylum there, nobody's forcing them to climb fences, jump onto lorries, threaten/intimidate drivers. What they're doing is their own choice and proves they have no respect for our laws. Sorry but that's a fact.

I wonder how much of their own time, effort and money those who claim the moral high ground and the empathy put into this problem? No, it's far easier to claim truckers have it easy and anyone who objects to the UK being effectively besieged by illegal migrants in this manner is an uncaring racist. What a crock!

Right now thousands of ordinary people and small businesses are suffering hugely with their jobs and livelihoods at risk due to this disruption. Ruined/spoiled foodstuffs, damage to vehicles, lost wages, penalties for delays etc. etc. etc. I bet few of the 'great and the good' wouldn't be quite so charitable were their jobs, businesses, homes on the line. Charity's oh so easy when you're not doing the giving or on the receiving end of the problems.

Give in to this blackmail and we'll never see the end of it - the world is full of people who'd love to come here and the last thing we need is to encourage them further. We need to stop wasting billions on dubious foreign aid and redirect that money to helping those in need where they need it. Frankly I have a great deal more sympathy for them than the hordes in Calais by their own choice.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Just one point about them being OUR problem. They are only OUR problem because they have passed through all those SAFE country in Europe and have made themselves OUR problem. :mad:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Remember this is the DM, but it seems that outrageous, it's probably true.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-arrival.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

From various official government sources.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Correct, people like mrmistoffelees should go get an atlas, last time I looked the UK wasn't anywhere near Africa/middle East, unless the geography has changed a bit when I was asleep...

You claim asylum in the first safe place you come across, you don't cherry pick. There that wasn't hard to understand was it.:shrug:

Only a complete gormless idiot wouldn't make the correlation that they're coming here to max out everything possible.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

In many cases the Asylum seeker is not choosing to come to the UK ,it is simply where they are placed by the agent that moved them , legally or illegally .It's also worth pointing out that they are not choosing to leave their country of birth .Most have very little time to prepare for a journey of a few thousand miles and most of those who end up in the UK are here because of the decisions of other people not themselves .Those that do choose to come here do so because they already speak the language (don't forget that most African countries have English as their second language) ,they also see the UK as a tolerant country that will respect their human rights .Your belief that asylum seekers are simply migrating to live on our benefits system is quite simply wrong .
I believe that the EU as a whole should take more responsibility in dealing with these migrants as dumping them into Germany(150,000 applicants) France (60,000 applicants)Sweden (55,000 applicants) Turkey 50,000 applicants) UK (25,000 applicants) is unfair to those countries .You will also note that those figures show the UK has far fewer claims for asylum than other EU countries .

Have a read of this it may enlighten you with a few facts
http://www.swansea.ac.uk/internation...otheuk/#accept

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

And only a complete gormless idiot would say that claiming asylum in the first safe place you arrive means you stay in that place ,Italy and Greece are facing massive hardship because of the Dublin regulation which states that " that the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person's asylum claim" although it has to be said that many countries including Greece and Italy have stopped using the Dublin Regulation because it is unfair to the country ,unfair to the asylum seeker and leaves the country taking the asylum seeker liable to prosecution under UCHR regulations

As a member of the European Union we are as responsible for asylum seekers that enter European borders as any other country

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Hopefully we won't be a member of said union much longer, you of course are quite welcome to move to it, should that be the case though.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I don't like the EU any more than you do ,I'm simply stating some facts that you and some others may be ignoring or unaware of ,incidentally we would probably still have this problem if we where to leave the EU ,this is not an issue with us being forced to take on migrant workers under EU rules ,this is an issue of refugees fleeing war torn countries and terrible human rights violations.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And only a complete gormless idiot would fail to realise that Sweden for example takes in three times the amount of refugees 30000 vs 10000 that we do in fact if you're from Syria then your application is automatically successful

Said gormless idiot would also fail to realise that asylum seekers receive far more in financial (and other) assistance in France,Germany and Sweden to name three countries than they would in the UK


Ergo it has absolutely nothing to do with geography or available benefits you tit


Asylum seekers are only granted accomodation & allowances IF they are considered to have a genuine claim those that don't are kept in detention centres or government contracted secure locations

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

I wonder when people are going to realise this isn't a UK problem it's a European nay almost global problem

Two things I have learnt on this thread
1 quite a few people have no interest in the world unless it benefits them in some way otherwise they don't give a toss about anyone or anything
2) never argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Correct but the point remains that there are countless millions around the globe who want and deserve a better life and a) we can't give refuge to them all so have to set a cut off point sooner or later and b) sending out the message that, if you storm our borders often enough we'll let you in no matter who you are and how weak your case for asylum turns out to be, is an invitation for yet more to do it and up the ante as they see fit. Admitting large numbers of economic migrants who're wrongly claiming asylum is storing up huge problems for the future because many already disappear and are never returned back to their homelands. If, as we should, we're going to give asylum to people we need to make sure it goes to those who really deserve it and are fleeing genuine persecution etc. not effectively give refuge to people who just want a better life, come here under false pretences and are never removed.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Some people should take the time to read this (again)

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/7909630?utm_hp_ref=uk

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I absolutely agree ,but when Western governments where busy removing undesirable governments or refusing to get involved in massive human rights violations don't you think they should have made provision for the refugees that where always going to invade Western shores as a direct result of our activity or inactivity in their countries .The refugee problem is not a problem for the UK and France only, it is one for the whole of Europe and should be shared by all of Europe .

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yep. The problem with Swedens approach is detailed here:
http://swedenreport.org/2015/04/03/s...into-oblivion/
It makes scary reading......
This is even more scary:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

My Swedish friends are dead against the influx of "foreigners" but their goverment is all for it.

That paralells some other counries too.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Therein lies the problem we will all face. As unpalatable as it is, there are far too many people to help and places like Sweden are finding that out the hard way and I will not only end badly but will result in a great deal of lasting resentment and hostility. Anyone who thinks the Swedes can/will keep it up is more than gormless. Anyway I'm sure those demanding we take in ever more refugees/bogus asylum seekers/economic migrants are doing more than their fair share to assist with their plight as opposed to just making themselves feel less guilty about how little they actually do... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10433987.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Sensationalist pap....

From the same article.

The Socialist–led French government insists that it has no plans to scrap the treaty. Its existence explains why the British government has been very slow to criticise Paris.

Whatever the failings of border security in Calais, the migrant problem would be far more acute if France lifted the barriers and let Britain police its own asylum-seekers.

Imagine if it was reversed, French officials say. French-speaking migrants from west Africa are coming ashore in Cornwall and making for Kent to reach France. “Would the British tabloids be shrieking for British police to stop them at Dover?” one official asked.

Salient point, non?

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33754595

That's not small change for a cash-strapped country. £18,720,000 pa.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

... and those costs are a very small part of what the 'system' costs us to operate in total when you take into account al the abuse, appeals, enforcement, administration, healthcare, welfare, housing, education etc. etc. Still, if we pretend they're all totally honest decent people who'll be a real asset to the UK that'll make us all feel a lot better eh - especially those whose lives don't bring them into contact with any of the problems being created in our society by economic migrants coming here from around the globe but who like to preach tolerance and generosity on behalf of the rest of us.

Still waiting for someone who thinks they should be allowed in to tell us what we should do with the next trench who make it to Calais and all those who follow them? It's such a simple question that I can't understand why nobody wants to give an answer... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

As i said in a previous post, it's only the people who have what the government think to be a valid claim that are granted the benefits whilst their claims are considered etc. Those who it's decided have no claim are held in secure accomodation prior deportation

I don't profess to have all the answers, but as a fellow human being, it's not (in my opinion) to allow a fellow human being to live in squalor or filth.

---------- Post added at 13:55 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

£18,720,000pa is nothing to this government. Look at the huge amounts of money that has so far been wasted on Universal Credit (Specifically the IT budgets)
It could probably also be collected in owed taxes in the blink of an eye.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Government policy can't (and shouldn't) be formulated at the level of individual cases. It can only deal with the entirety of a problem, else the complexity would quickly push that bill well over £18k. And the entirety of the problem is a lot more than one single case with one single bill.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Multiply the relatively insignificant 'single case' by thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and suddenly the numbers are very significant. Not only that, refuge, once granted can't just be revoked if/when things get tough economically and/or socially, so any problems which arise after the event are not going away any time soon. I fully expect ethnic tensions to increase in Greece with the economy there tanking at the very time migrants numbers are peaking with the accompanying demands on their economy. It's really not rocket science for anyone who can see beyond the end of their nose.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I don't know if the free prescriptions in Wales means that maths isn't taught but £36 X 52 weeks = 1,870 PA not £18,720 :rolleyes:

To get £18,720 they would get £360 per week which they don't

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

... bin your calculator. :rolleyes:

£18,720,000 is the whole bill for ALL of them for a year.

Free prescriptions in Wales cost LESS than the admin to collect the charge.

I earned 8 top grades at Mathematics.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

what is the cost of the sniffer dogs that DC sent to Calais?

Have they been trained to follow garlic breath? the immigrants surely eat local food.....

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

nothing wrong with the calculator ,each asylum seeker gets £1,872 pa you worded it as if they where getting £18,720 pa each, spinning stories to try to make a point does your argument no good at all .You have only succeeded in highlighting the extremely small amount of money they have to live on which would most likely force people into stealing to survive

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:dozey: Best twonk response for ages. Did you read my original post at all? :dozey:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The wording definitely tries to make out that it's £18,720 pa for each asylum seeker simply because 18 grand pa for 10,000 people is absolute peanuts so the only point you could possibly be making is that we are paying them too much so you either think we are giving them 18 grand each pa or there is absolutely no humanity in you whatsoever.Also we aren't particularly cash strapped as a nation ,we are in fact one of the wealthiest nations on earth which is why people want to live here

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Just been listening to a BBC News interview with some asylum seekers. 'Did you come to the UK because of the welfare and benefits?' was the question asked and the answer unsurprisingly was no. Do they seriously expect people to say anything else? It wouldn't go down too well if they said they were here because of the benefits etc. would it...

Once again the man from the Beeb made the statement that they're "not eligible for benefits or housing" which is patently untrue.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

so why do more refugees and asylum seekers go to the US,Germany and most other parts of the EU where benefits are less in preference to the UK ? Asylum seekers get some state help ,they have to because they aren't allowed to work ,but they in no way receive benefits and housing equivalent to everyone else

This may help to clear up some of the mis information that is sweeping through this thread

http://www.unhcr.org.uk/about-us/the-uk-and-asylum.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

:dozey: did you do big numbers in school? :dozey:

£18,720,000 divided by 10,000 equals £1,872.

Not £18,720. :dunce:

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:49 ----------

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...t-payments-cut


Denmark has also slashed benefits to asylum seekers.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I was wondering too

@Taf I too believe you did write £18,720
@martyh after Taf posted his message, Taf edited his typo, in less than 1 minute he added 3 zeros

I hope I did not imagine this:) We both read Taf's message the split second it was posted....

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I know , I pointed that out to you :rolleyes:

The way YOU worded your post made it out that each asylum seeker receives £18,720 pa YOU tried to spin it to make it sound worse than it was I tried to correct your blatant spin that Blair would have been proud of and now YOU are trying to back peddle ,give it up, your argument is pathetic.If you begrudge an asylum seeker £5.28 a day for food sanitation and clothing then you are a sorry little man

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The problem here is that we're constantly referring to refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants and there's no way we can tell who's really who. Until asylum claims are actually made we have no idea how many there will be and how many illegals are here biding their time before they claim asylum as I've already mentioned. In some ways life is tougher for an asylum seeker here than an illegal migrant who works illegally, pays no tax and lives under the radar and frankly I'm far more worried about the latter category. It doesn't surprise me that many leave their claims until they're caught because a) it gives them more time to form family relationships and b) they can earn more than they'd get officially. There's no downside.

As for those who choose to go to Germany I dare say there are other factors, which in their case, make that seem like the best idea. Amongst those factors will be established family or cultural links. Knowing the German reputation for efficiency it may well be that those with a good case for asylum choose to go there because they know their cases will be dealt with far more speedily than here and they'll soon be able to get on with life. Likewise many may choose to come here because they have very weak claims and want to exploit the fact that our system is shambolic because that gives them the best chance of remaining permanently.

What drives migrants to do what they do will vary from case to case and clearly there's a proportion who've been very badly misled and abused along the way.

I'm not at all confused about the difference between asylum seekers and economic migrants but until we have an effective system for separating the 2 we'll never know how many are genuine refugees who deserve asylum and how many aren't. The fact that anyone can claim to be a refugee knowing that it'll take years for an asylum claim to be examined/determined in the UK is an excellent inducement for any economic migrant to do so and why wouldn't they? Why would they traipse across half the world to the UK and then admit something which would preclude them from remaining here?

I'm not suggesting that other countries don't have similar or even worse problems - clearly the Italians and Greeks do for a start. Frankly, however, I'm more concerned about the problems we face and I don't really like the thought that economic migrants are queueing up in Calais using all sorts of intimidation in order to force their way into the UK. I believe that if we give in to this sort of thing it will end very badly and serve to encourage even more to try the same tactics. If that happens, I believe the numbers will grow substantially and waking up to that fact when it's too late isn't really very sensible.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Thank you ,I thought I was going nuts when those zeros suddenly appeared

Putting that aside it does highlight the rather sad attitude towards people suffering from persecution that seems prevalent in this thread

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How do we separate those suffering persecution from those who're economic migrants or don't we bother? I reckon few people would have a problem with asylum if they believed those being granted it were all genuine. How can anyone have any faith in a system which has been shambolic and open to abuse for decades? :shrug:

IMHO we should be assisting economic migrants with aid at source and be restricting asylum to those who're genuinely in need of it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I believe I added a space between the figures and "pa".

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

I do not begrudge genuine asylum seekers anything. I was just stating how much it cost us each year, during a time of less for all (except the rich perhaps).

Do you think that Jobseekers have it much better in the UK? After all they have to pay for their gas, electricity and water from their £8.27 per day (under 24 years of age) or £10.44 per day (over 24 years of age).

My water bill is £1.67 per day, electricity and gas £3.65 per day. So that would be £5.32 gone before I thought of feeding and clothing muself as a unemployed person. That would put me worse off than an asylum seeker!

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Classic example on ITV News. Guy comes all the way from Sudan because supposedly it's dangerous there, but strangely enough it's not too dangerous for the rest of his family still there. He wants to get enough money to send back and bring the rest of his family over. Has bogus claim written all over it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33760591

He's got a point hasn't he or is he just a heartless xenophobe too? Maybe he reads the Daily Mail as well...

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Realistically how much can be done about the jobs black market? Too late to do anything as so many of their "own kind" are already here and all too ready to give money, jobs etc to their "own kind"

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Well what are the controls? The French have ID cards and also have a more regulated business environment which makes it harder for quick jobs to be done easily. The 'black market' he refers to are simple cash-in-hand jobs and such that are around.

Maybe the reason there is less of it in France is that their controls amount to really high unemployment rates irrespective of your nationality.

Either way I don't see how any of this helps. The solution needs to be addressed at the root. No matter how well we fortify Calais the migrants will still go there. Before too long France will say enough is enough and revoke the agreement to have our border there and then the problem will be at Dover.

Maybe we do need to look at ID cards again and introduce more 'controls'.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

What will having an ID card resolve? and which 'controls' would you like to see introduced?

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:54 ----------

An unemployed person is quite within their rights to seek employment in the EU member states..... Or to present themselves at another country to try and claim asylum

---------- Post added at 09:02 ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 ----------

So cash strapped we can lose £1bn over night.....

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...-sell-off.html

---------- Post added at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33769906

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Actually, people can claim asylum if they cannot return to their country for fear of being persecuted - being unemployed doesn't count as persecution....

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Sorry, bad use of english on my part.....

should of had an or in there

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I get the feeling we are being "persecuted" by this Tory government. :(

But the Labour goverments before it were probably the reason why we have to go through all this "austerity". :(

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

How are we being 'persecuted'? :confused:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Cuts, cuts and more cuts. Public services, benefits......

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Hardly persecution is it? Besides people voted for a party that was clear more cuts would come. It's not like we're living in a war zone or under threat of death and worse from an armed force and/or their own Government.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I understand there are many out there affected by the cuts that have been driven to suicide, so I suppose they felt they were being persecuted.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Like we were discussing the other day, get serious with the punishments for those that employ illegals, might stop the odd lord or baroness thinking they're above the rules if nothing else.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Asylum has to be claimed in the FIRST safe country the asylum seeker gets to. Not traipse over half the planet just to get to the softest (i.e. UK) country to make the claim in.

Right of asylum

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Not it doesn't at all, it's a legal principle

There is no obligation under the refugee convention or any other instrument of international law that requires refugees to seek asylum in any particular country. There has, however, been a longstanding "first country of asylum" principle in international law by which countries are expected to take refugees fleeing from persecution in a neighbouring state. This principle has developed so that, in practice, an asylum seeker who had the opportunity to claim asylum in another country is liable to be returned there in order for his or her claim to be determined.

The domestic law on this issue is contained in the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants etc) Act 2004 and the immigration rules. Schedule 3 to the 2004 act contains lists of countries that are deemed to be safe for the purposes of the refugee convention and the UK's obligations under the European convention on human rights (for example, the obligation not to expose anyone to a real risk of torture or inhuman or degrading treatment).

The immigration rules state, however, that the secretary of state will only remove an asylum seeker to a safe third country if there is clear evidence that the country concerned will admit the person. This will be so if the person has arrived in the UK via another safe country and had an opportunity at the border of or within that country to claim asylum. The mere fact that the person has passed through another country does not necessarily mean there was an opportunity to claim asylum; if an agent planned the journey and the person was hidden in a vehicle for the duration of it, for example, there is unlikely to have been any realistic opportunity for the person to approach the authorities.

source: The Guardian

and for some further reading....

http://blogs.redcross.org.uk/refugee...ylum-illegals/

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Any "agent" is only going to transport somebody as far as is necessary. That will include where they were paid to transport somebody. How many cases are there where it is a single door-to-door journey, from country fled from to the UK? Eg All that time locked up in a shipping container from Ethiopia to Dover?

Even where there is conflict in a country, there is NOT conflict in every square mile of that country.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

During WW2, children were evacuated to far less dangerous corners of the UK, so that the adults could put their minds and efforts to defending our country.

Not for the adults to run away and leave our country defenceless.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Even if they didn't want to defend their country, why are they in many of these current cases leaving the women and children behind, supposedly in danger.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That is atypical behaviour for refugees from a warzone.
It's as if they have other reasons for coming here :dozey:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yup, like a crazy, shambolic immigration and asylum system which is open to abuse in all sorts of ways.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Yep

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

What a well thought out written article. In other news, I'm announcing my engagement to Catherine Zeta Jones, Smoking is proved to not have any detrimental health effects & Osama Bin Laden was actually an agent of the icelandic secret services.*


*Please note I'm supplying the same level of evidence as the above article to substantiate my claims.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

We shouldn't take the French version of events as gospel either, they'll have their own agenda to push as well as our own politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if anarchists were creating problems, that's what they do after all, however there doesn't appear to be much of evidence of it nor does it make too much sense at the moment.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

After a brief Google:
Calais Migrant Solidarity

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Someone has been asking Daily Mail readers to use the £1 ferry ticket the newspaper offers. Use the tickets to take food, clothes, etc. to the "refugees" in The Jungle.

I bet the Daily Mail loves that idea :D

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015...n_6584282.html

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

What insanity is this?

Yet another reason to stop paying the BBC tax. Everybody should flood the BBC with complaints.:mad::mad:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

They're all Gods people. let's all sing together.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

As it's a religious programme, it might be that Christianity thing.... ;)

Matthew 25:40

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

I refer you both to my post above :)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Why did they talk in mumbo jumbo language back then?
it's always annoyed me how they deliberately talked in riddles.

riddles can be interpreted in many different ways though.
depending on which one suits.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

That's pretty clear Gary

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

In which case, the beeb shouldn't be encouraging them to covet the belongings of others ;)

Ten Commandments

I especially don't want my ass messed with.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Indeed. These people have enough to worry about without inflicting Songs of Praise on them.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Hi Ramrod :waving:

I didn't see your post, to be fair it was only just a hour or two after you posted it.

I don't think it changes my opinion. As I said I wouldn't be surprised to see anarchists entering these camps trying to cause chaos but I doubt they're doing so really. A blogspot guide doesn't really prove everything to me other than that they would consider making a website to encourage people to do it.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

So the anarchists saying that they are there, the French saying that they are there and several UK papers saying they are there isn't enough for you? :D

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

The several UK papers are all reporting the same source which is the comment from the French officer. They are not independent confirmations of these anarchists.

As for the anarchists all I see is a Wordpress blog which for all we know is the work of one or two people. Certainly there are few pictures of these anarchists who should be quite easy to identify in the migrant camps or at the Eurotunnel border given all the cameras and press around at the time. The blog itself isn't too clear on what these people are actually doing either. They seem to claim that they record police actions against the migrants and distribute food. The closest I can see to them being 'anarchists' is that they also seem to encourage squatting.

Where are they claiming to be anarchists or to be helping stage mass breakthroughs into the Eurotunnel?

Anyway looking around I do think this would be possible but I would want actually proof rather than a statement from someone with a vested interest. I suspect some are over there, or at least talk of going over there, but I am not convinced there is anything other than a handful nor are they helping them break out.

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

I mean this is actually a better source since it has a direct quote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-wingers.html

That really is an anarchists saying he is helping them although it's to 'pass the exam'.

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

There'll be all sorts behind this 'market' - it's just like any other and criminal opportunists will exploit it in whatever way they can.

Anyway in these worrying times it's refreshing to know just how secure the tunnel is eh?... :rolleyes:

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

You can lead a horse to water....oh well :)

Re: Unstoppable migration?
 

Damien makes a point, There is no hard evidence from either side of the fence (pun intended) it all comes down as to who you choose to believe.....