Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I doubt it ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There's hope for you yet. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm a firm believer in choosing a government at the ballot box rather than through an internet petition. :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Trouble is that increasingly involves deciding on what is the least worst option but hey ho...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

True. Unfortunately, the British public voted against Electoral Reform.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I will not be signing it if it is true that a Labour City Councillor for Wednesfield North created it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Remember Hugh. you have to take into account that some people out there are just like you. unfortunately :)

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:54 ----------

Why not?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

so even if its a good idea you will not sign it just because of who created it?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think we need reformed politicians more than electoral reform but that's for another thread. ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

'Some'?

Over 63 million haven't signed it - once again, you and reality are non-contiguous Venn Diagram circles... :D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Can we do Osborne for stirring 'racial' hatred?
it's not racial, but the same crime.
sickening how he's using Philpott as a way of getting people to turn against welfare claimants.

he doesn't realise it but the prat is disrespecting the dead 6 kids too.

---------- Post added at 18:30 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

Wow.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That is exactly what I thought when I saw the TV interview, labelling claiments with lifestyles etc.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

He's just another muppet.

Philpott did it with the intention of being made a hero, and to frame his ex so he could get custody of five kids.
yes, child benefit come with the kids. so what?

would Osborne be prepared to say if he could to the dead kids. glad you're alive now. but you're the kind of family that sets a bad example to the tax payer. and I will make damn sure that you suffer.

stupid prat.

and if I hear anyone (outside the forum) say the same thing. I'll punch them in the nose! :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

but that's like cutting your fingers off to spite your nose lol but fair enough :)

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

im lost where did this start ? what is this in relation to missed a bit?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Osborne using Philpot and the 6 dead kids as a soapbox in getting the nation to despise benefit claimants.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

is there a link or a start point for this?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

And been on most news bulletins throughout the day.

And now Ball's reply to it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22025035

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

do not read or watch the news its depressing , Thanks for the links :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What he actually said (from the Times).

Context is all....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

omg is he for real. So now he is trying to spin to the worker that a benefit "scrounger" can now be a child killer . As if the stigma for the unemployed isn't bad enough. Well Stinson Hunter found a councillor who wanted underage sex with a 15 year old does that mean all politicians could be nonces ?

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

so The Times never misrepresent anything then? is there a video we can watch to see what he said is it a proper interview ?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I agree context is key. But that's left for people like you to see right through it, but in the meantime someone has to defend the crap that is produced out there. Eg http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...dren-fire.html

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Do you have a point, Hugh?

would you like to expand a little bit. you never expand. you just copy and paste. and add 3 words.

it would be nice if you could expand for once.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Your mixing things up and blending the two discussions about Phillpot into one when they are totally different and separate .It is very relevant how philpot managed to mis use the system for so long and Osborne is right to raise the question .Here we have a perfect example of why the system needs reform and people like him are why it is being reformed .It's a safe bet that the benefit system and the amount of money he got from it and was going to lose by his girlfriend moving out was the reason why phillpot hatched his plan in the first place

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

You've just read the first lefty head line you came across haven't you , have look about and get the real story


start with this

http://news.sky.com/story/1073914/os...benefit-reform

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I did yes I do think what I said was funny though lol

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ok so I'm sure those who're rightly complaining about what they see as unfair stereotyping of all benefit claimants won't be labelling all bankers as crooks, for example, or supporting those politicians who indulge in that sort of thing.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

By his actions, Osborne has associated Philpott's actions/attitude/beliefs and a child killer, with benefit claimants (people out of work) (haven't got a job) (maybe poor)

he could have left it, and thought it's not appropriate under the circumstances.
but no. as he's out and about making a name for himself and doing Gods work of inciting hatred towards the unemployed. he couldn't resist the opportunity.

yes we need to save money. but associating benefit claimants with child killers. and making an obvious national hate campaign towards them. is just wrong.

especially when it's the government that's leading the crusade.

You only have to look at Osborne and you can see he's not all there.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I to be honest aint that bothered about this one upon reflection

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Nor me. and I'm hungry anyway.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Excuse me but both sides of this argument are in danger of generalisations. Why don't we remember that not every politician,benefit claimant,Tory supporter,Labour supporter is whatever the other side assumes in every case.

Better still how about both sides refraining from the usual red rag waving about the other factions and actually debate the issues?Stop accusing others of not listening when you are all guilty of not listening.

Or even more novel.Agree to disagree.;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l agree with Maggy as its irresponsible for people or politicians to make sweeping generalisations about benefit claimants or bankers and what we must have is a grown up adult discussion about these things and not have this corrosive demonising of all bankers and all benefit claimants.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

No need to excuse you. You just made my point that there are people complaining about negative stereotyping and guilt by association when they indulge in it themselves. Perhaps for some it just seems more acceptable when it's bankers or so called Tory toffs than benefit claimants who're on the receiving end. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

What about vanilla chicken eaters? :D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

IDS claims £39 breakfast on expenses that would not leave him much would it lol http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...akfast-1810086

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What's new? They all claim expenses for all sorts of stuff most normal people can't afford.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

nothing new just funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly1al4K3u2M

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The claim wasn't allowed.

And tbf, when I was working away in London, if the breakfast in the hotel was that price, that was what was claimed.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What you mean your morals as a taxpayer didn't stretch so far as to make you seek out a cheapy full English in Croydon? :D

Let's get real folks, all sorts of people claim expenses for things which are allowable and are beyond what many people can afford. No matter what they like to 'preach' I don't imagine when they're 'on the road' our union leaders, church leaders, charity execs. or whatever stay at the cheapest hotels and eat modestly to save money.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It would have cost me more to get a taxi from Central London and back, and they tend not to want to go Sahf of the River at that time...;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

But there is a little difference . Hugh's wages I believe does not come out of the tax payers pocket and neither does his expenses

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Neither did IDS's, as it wasn't paid...;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Taxis don't ever go sarf of the river, you should know that. ;)

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

See the rest of my post. So is a politician who claims such expenses on the taxpayer any worse than a charity exec. who claims them out of the charity's funds? That's the point I'm making.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I agree they are both wrong

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Contextually when referring directly to specific people within the entity which he does, naming two also referring to the cabinet office and expanding to the entire coalition the plural usage would be absolutely correct, the rest of the government are not mentioned.

25 million did not vote at the last election, we are still being subjected to the dictatorial minority that voted for the conservatives and lib dems

Seems pretty clear to me the reporters question and Osborne's response was already rehearsed, as in Osborne hands a reporter the questions he will answer and the reporter asks them, Osborne has already rehearsed his responses, reporters who get creative usually end up with deviated and meaningless response. Most fall for the nonsense, whether it be a negative or positive reaction is not his concern, as long as the majority believe his response was off the cuff from a question he was not expecting the desired effect has been obtained. Politics is more about showmanship than anything else. The rest of us are just a paranoid psychotic minority who can be easily disregarded, as you can see my beliefs are well systematized.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

As an indication of support, there is a bit of a difference between 17.5 million voters and 27k petitioners...;)

Re your 'rehearsed Q&A', how does this fit in with all the attacks on Osborne et al in the media, or is that all part of an overall 'master plan'?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If you consider a master plan is, "how to control as much as possible the masses under the perception to the majority it's their choice whilst you do as you please" then sure call it a master plan for all governments, democratic or otherwise are no different in my eyes than the religionists of millennia ago.

I would look to your own ideals for an answer to that as your perception will probably be different to mine. You wont ever catch them being positively responsive to a hostile press and in the most part such hostilities of the press are made in their absence, the art is to manage the press in your presence to get your agendas across which Osborne clearly did here by tying a horrific act to his anti benefits agenda. To me at its most basic such press hostility comes with the territory and will always fulfill a purpose, and that purpose is as reliant for being anti agenda driven as it is for supporting them otherwise there would be no debate, and without debate the delusion of democracy is stone dead.

-------------------------

Fact most people on sickness benefits do not have 6-25 children and live in state supplied mansions. Most honest and decent people on long term benefits are there not by their own choice and have worked, especially the ones genuinely there for life as we are usually victims of a variety of incidents that have cut our working life short, are living on the breadline and now cannot afford for our teenage children to even go to college since the Tories came in. The bursary fund is a joke of which most are ineligible for the full version, the reduced bursary is being improperly distributed and there is no body i have found to complain to. They cannot afford to look for work because we cannot afford to pay for them to find it and when they get something its likely to be a low end job with low pay, will not be able to sustain their own accommodation and paying board which we obviously cannot subsidize them the same way working parents can is a serious disincentive as it will leave them with little to nothing for themselves. That's the harsh reality of being in the position we have found ourselves in and to be continually demonized for such misfortune is abhorrent.

You want to catch the scammers fine, I am sure we all agree they need to be caught, I dare say there are and always will be plenty but for the rest of us not running judo or dance classes etc, are we not entitled to at least have some quality of life which will usually mean us trying to do what we can for ourselves and now cannot due to fear of being falsely deemed a cheater, and why don't our children have some chance of the decent opportunities yours have, and then you wonder why such entrapment appears inherited ?

Well I came from a hard working family in the most part as did my wife, and we have not spent all our lives on the dole, but now we are here due to considerable ill health I can clearly see why generations cannot get out of the trap, and the current lot so far have made matters worse for future generations not better.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

If you listen to each muppet from the government when they're talking about these benefit cuts. such as Dave, George, and Ian.
they're using psychological tactics.

each one will always say something like "we have the backing of the British public with this one"
they sometimes get a bit cocky and say "full backing"
it's to make you or I think twice about opposing it. as you say "well if everyone agrees with it, then I'm the only one that doesn't"

very clever mind games.

Look out for it next time one of the muppets are on the news.
when they're asked an awkward question or whatever. they'll start with something like "look... we have the full backing of the British public on this one"

they'll convince us all later that we all agreed to privatise the NHS and to give all MPs a million pound Xmas bonus each.
simply because it works.

whilst you're noticing that. tell me that Dave has got worse with his hand actions whilst talking.
he never used to do it.
that's another mind thing too.

has anyone also noticed that there wasn't a cold weather payment for the last week in April March. even though it was cold enough?
see.... they're in control of people that much that we're not even questioning it.

scary.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Gary do you mean March as we have just started April or did your clocks go forward a month:D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Considering we are only in the first week in April, that's probably why there wasn't a payment for the last week in April....

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Someone has been messing with my clocks :)

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

Yes, Hugh.
Thank you, Hugh.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

GaryL maybe your area was not deemed according to DWP they paid 4m

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21895098

You got mindfull there cutoff read MP raise it said you cant predict when weather gets cold should not have timeframe.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I don't claim it. I just check on http://pensions-service.direct.gov.u...yment/home.asp

where I am there's only been 2 periods. I was expecting there to be 3 in the last week.

Infact I think there were 4 periods last year. and look how cold it's been compared to last year. and the extended period of cold we have had compared to last year.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...in-facts-myths

basically these figures show osbourne liar even sicken to bring up use dead kids as political tool.

The whole lies about welfare dependancy is complete fabrication especially in unemployed. Ok always small percentage but how much help those poor getting.

Whole host telling stats from how many kids people have to where the money goes.

lets start with the kids as this common trash at the moment.

Most welfare recipients only got 1, 2 0r 3 kids.

625k have 1
419k have 2
194k have 3
76k have 4
26k have 5
9k have 6
3k have 7
1k have 8
360 have 9
130 have 10
30 have 11
10 have 12/13

certainly not many large familes there is there usually 1 or 2 kids largely norm family. Do agree on excess cap but my concern what do you do with families work all life get redundant cant support them anymore what do they propose.

Now we look other peddled lies.

How big is the problem of families on benefits where generations have never worked?

well lests see foundation stats

patterns working age households.

generations both workless 1% yep only 1%

with one unemployed 17%

working households 82%

now for they never ever worked or when dont forget this is this 1%

neither generation worked 9%

five years or more last job but have worked 36%

2-4 years last worked 16%

1-2 years last worked 18%

in last year 21%


So infact only 9% of that one 1% is problem issue which we need to help sort out.
---------------------------------------------

There lot more stats in this which shows the coalition lies. Problem is the labour just bent with neo liberal atitudes so wont reveal these figures.

Someone in politics goto show UK people sadly people rather listen to lies rather do the investigation to seek out whether they being hoodwinked.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So 839 thousand families on benefits have 3 or more children....hmmm....and here's us keeping my family down to two children partly because of the cost of raising them. I suppose if we had simply decided to have the state pick up the tab we may have had more......
(simplistic, I know :D )

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

20 little rammy's running round. now I'm going to have nightmares

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I make that 300,000? :confused:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Exactly. With my first on the way the Mrs and I are getting a swift reality check about our future finances.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yep 194k of that is 3 childen not 4 childen plus.

Certainly not reilms excessive when tie in the labour figures. There is some concerns at lower ends which do think its only tiny amount but it does effect alot in financial sense.

The problem is what do you do cut funds would create kids to starve surely this madness. We what force them to sell kids or put them in foster homes.

Just shows we not in reilms of loads of large families running amock on benefits. Coupled with stats of the unemployed there not excess of long term lifestyle dependent unemployed either.

Which means what are they refering to in that statement should we go around telling disabled they only allowed 3 years support. Oh I know few would love government to instigate that one. Yet those poor souls got long term or actually lifetime illnesses. Something coalition evils cant comprehend that there is illneses you will never recover or actually has very slow recovery rates. That some respond to treatment better others what one dont get side effects another does. That in some causes side effects can be very bad or not depending the drugs you take and combinations.

I thought guinenine disabled had nothing to fear was there election motto.

Now great if scientist use R&D and find drugs which cure or aid them to work lifting them off necessary support. Works and gives back poor old disabled a life back then great.

There is backward situation dont government refuse often drugs as they too expensive. Alot drugs like on postcode lottery too depending on NHS Trust another issue. Also have reduced support to R&D thus many the drug companies closing or cutting back on its R&D in uk. One such company recently.

http://www.thefinancepages.co.uk/com...50-jobs/04278/

So how we supposed to find the cures of the future which will help those to become alive. We cant just cut there supply of on wim catcall lifetime dependancy chuck them in the houses or carehomes out of society eyes. We cant mushroom society into one fits all scenerio.

So if they not on about disabled or clearly not unemployed by these figures who are they talking about as lifetime dependancy. Those who do right thing get job but the there chums cant be bothered or some guinine firms unable too to give proper living wage. Surely they not talking of our pensioners worked all there lives put stamp in now collecting there rightful state pension.

They love there pidgeon hole talk divide and rule stats dont stack up to there mouths.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------


this it derek can you predict your future. Congrats on the little one when he/she due.

We can all try work finances but we dont know whats around corner.

We goto work and drink driver side swipes a car that worker now ends up disabled in wheelchair now struggles feed his family.

Worse the breadwinner ends up with cancer looses there life. The other partner never worked as they did not see point or was being house husband/wife looking after 3 kids that before they could afford easily. Now partner got 3 kids no skills for job prospects.

There realistic scenerios which played everyday of our lives.

We never know whats around corner nor does this stupid coalition.

What problem is lack of training and skills. Surely this is area we need to target get viable workforce for the modern UK. Army of aprenticeships partnership with government and business to identify where we lack and target these shortfalls. Less reliance then on bringing talent to uk.

For years we not done it as successive governments just fudge it with stupid courses/ideas which dont get reconised as businesses or dont train the person long enough.

We need to bring back the old apprenticeships.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ugh that accent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhnQTxUP56I

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well I did not know until I watched Have I got News for You just how much of the welfare bill goes on pensions. The woman on there said 2 thirds but I thought no way not that much. 47% in the year 2011 and 2012 went on state pensions a whopping 74 billion with another 8 billion for pension credits taking it over 50% ESA and Incap stands @ a little over 8.5 billion the next highest is housing benefit that stands just below 19 billion which the pensioners will have some of also so the 2 thirds is looking about right. JSA stands at just under 5 billion

These are least hit by the cuts so as I have said all along al the gov are doing are urinating in the wind making the poorest suffer

reposted this here as its relevant. It is clear to me the biggest cost of welfare is the state pension all other individual benefits are a drop in the ocean compared.

Child benefit costs 12 billion a year working and child tax 30 billion. The cuts are hitting the wrong people. Means test the state pension those with good private pensions are still getting this. My old man gets 28 K a year private pension and still gets the state pension. There is imo a lot more to be gained from this cut than the tiny cuts to the poorest

Figures are starting to get real to me now and the propaganda and spin el gov have got most of you suckered into is starting to leave a bitter taste

You know why they wont ? votes simple as that

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Woo Hoo!
I knew he was modelling himself on his hero!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FnmnuDiVno

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Quite right, sorry. Been a long day. New puppy, sleep deprivation :D

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

He is getting hit, by the tax man anything earnt after receiving the state pension is taxable iirc.

George Osborne ducks TV debate with disabled campaigner Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson
 

Re: George Osborne ducks TV debate with disabled campaigner Baroness Tanni Grey-Thomp
 

Thats criminal ITV maybe they should be fined. Why aint ofcom getting involved they will critise false adverts but wont stop propaganda and false evidances pure lies from polititians. How can disabled fight there ground for there necessary help and support when dipstick like ITV bosses refuse to interview tanya grey thompson with meeting with osbourne. Osbourne and IDS should been dragged kicking and screaming to it.

About time these polititians saw the mess they creating stop being in insulated ivory towers. Why dont they take 50% pay cut to show they leading by example or wave all but essential claims. Such as paying for own meals and paying own drinks at house commons. If they cant tighten belts then they should not ask others.

About time the media stopped its political lies told the truth what DLA is for.

Seems only Guardian shown a fight those who ignoring the destruction of disabled lives.


What disabled supposed to do stay at home staring at wall because idiots think its wrong they have any little luxury from a benefit. When for disabled its subsitute so they should be allowed little leeway. Especially those disabled can never be able to work. Many disabled have to have people to help them such pay for someone to clean there home. Not all got family able to due to work commitments themselves.

We talking those who having passed the ESA Atos to show they unable to work.

Those who support it READ THIS. Yep former IB and ESA is support for disabled who cant work. Problem is people have little understanding the disabled benefit system need to understand DLA is for ALLL DISABLED helps many who can work able to WORK. ESA for thing like income to pay for things like food, bills etc. The DLA is help pay for Care & mobility. You can use it get and maintain mobility aids this includes Scooters, keeping car on the road whether private or motorbility. So they not HOUSE BOUND have little bit respect to there lives.

Seems now not even allowed to work either. So again what disabled supposed to do then.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e-able-to-work

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I was thinking. this thing with Maggie dying and the timing of it.
the way people are about it all. could be the start of the beginning if you like.
it's all about how Maggie is seen by many as destroying peoples lives at that time. but look what's happening now with the same party but a different leader?!

see it?
that's what I'm on about.

I don't think this will stop now. I reckon this was the spark that started the fire.
I'll even bet Dave and many others are thinking the same.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Loved the new bit where they have dropped mobility test from fifty metres to twenty that gets me down my garden path and just past the fence to next doors garden and that makes you fit mobility wise brilliant. This leader is doing far more damage then maggie ever did and he isn't finished yet.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'd say he's going to be finished a lot sooner than he thought.
I truly think that Maggies death has started the ball rolling on all this now.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Time will tell.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

To be fair Gary L I have no time for margeret thatcher evil witch but she did one good thing she helped the disabled. Under her wing motorbility was born with The Mobility Allowance scheme used initially fore runner to DLA by lord plaistow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motability

The destruction this scheme, by this governement is wrong.

They just sat there giving her plaudits yet had not guts to admit they killing one of her best policies.

Yes she did wrong but disabled do have to thank her for the forsight to introduce plaistow vision.

---------- Post added at 11:15 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

yep disgustingly evil by these jokers to move goalposts from the consultation lets hope the courts give them good kicking.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...mobility-tests

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

May be if the other party had a credible leader

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Maybe if we the voters had a credible alternative to vote for.

Benefit Cap v No work
 

I have a just watched a programme on www.itn.co.uk concerning the new welfare caps that are starting in Haringey, On Monday.

That will reduce benefit payments to encourage people into work - What work.

It just does not work when there is no employment in deprived area's to force people to get a job that does not pay enough money to cover the day to day financial running.

I will assume that some members will say that it will get the scroungers off the system and back into work - BUT what about the people that have been put there by no fault of there own, and those are that age is against them, where some employers want to take on younger staff as they are cheaper.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Oh I don't know. Maybe they could start with some of these.

http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/haringey?...alaryLowToHigh
http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/jobs/
http://www.indeed.co.uk/jobs-in-Haringey

Either that or they could queue up at a coal mine to take a job. You seem pretty convinced that coal mining is economically viable and all thats needed is people to go down there and get the coal out and everything will be peachy in the economy.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Is that the report where a woman with only 2 kids receives more than £26,000/yr(£500/wk) in benefits. That is effectively an after tax figure, so the actual wage equivalent is higher. The report is of course very short on specifics, therefore we cannot judge the full picture(that's probably deliberate:mad:). If single parents with just 2 children are routinely going to be affected by this, then wouldn't a lot more than 40,000 be affected?

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Perhaps there are not many qualified for the job? which is why I say people unemployed should be allowed to train on the job as long as they apply themselves and attend the courses. More trained people then to take the jobs

Let me just for reference point out a couple of facts about your links

1st link first page all jobs that need qualified people
2nd link 1st page 2 jobs varies first look had a 2 hour job and a cold caller job
3rd link 1st page all jobs need qualified people

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

strange I just clicked on the link and the first three were for bar and waiting staff. Maybe you should stop distorting the 'facts' as you put it.

There are just under 26,000 jobs in the first link. Cleaner etc. may not be appealing to people who can get nearly just as much from benefits.

Who knows maybe that's part of the problem.

J

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

obviously the jobs change I am not distorting anything

Jamie what does it say next to the jobs? yes that's right it says just added so please before you insinuate I am lying check out your facts

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Unfortunately, our employment laws have made it so difficult to sack people that there is little incentive for an employer to take someone on without a bucketload of evidence that they are fit for the job. They won't take a risk on the cost of training.

The NI changes Osborne announced the other week might just make a small difference, by slightly lowering the cost for small firms to take on staff the risk is somewhat cushioned.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Yeah this is why I think those that are really up for retraining should be able to specially as the job climate is what it is. As things stand you can not take a full time course while on JSA so retraining is limited and takes a lot longer so I say give those with the willingness to apply themselves the chance to better themselves the costs will not be that great

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think that is the biggest problem. If people moan about Eastern Europeans coming here and taking all the jobs perhaps they can answer why someone with no UK working background and often limited English language skills can find work when UK born and bred job seekers cannot.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Most of the vacancies that are advertised in Job Centres are AGENCY jobs, where the agency makes more than the worker.

A mate of mine worked for an agency, and the company that employed him told him they would take him on permanently, as they apid the agency a fortune, as they do the vetting for them.

When l was out of work, l went to THREE agencies (recommended by the JC) the first one was in Staines and they told me that they wanted younger people and l was too experienced) second one was in Hounslow, they told me that they would call me that night - they didn't. I called at the offices at 7am in the morning and l was told the job had gone.

I had a phone call ay 5.30am asking me to get to Paddington for Parcelforce by 6.am when l said l didn't have transport, they said that was no good and took me off there books.

To provide jobs this government MUST invest in this country, and stop companies moving abroad by giving them incentives to stay.

You cannot expect working people to travel miles for a job and they are not getting the financial support at the end. All the government are doing is once again hitting the poor who cannot get a job.

I used to be in the deep cleaning business and stood and worked in a load of crap to make money, but that company went bust. So l know what hard work is like.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The agency is the worker's employer, and therefore is responsible for employer's NI, paid holidays and all the associated HR and admin that goes with employing someone. The agency quite rightly passes these costs to the hiring business along with the worker's actual salary costs.

The agency will also take a fee for these services which is its profit for doing business. I don't propose to defend the concept of people going into business to make a profit. You either accept that it is a perfectly reasonable way to behave or else you're an irredeemable communist.

Unless you accept the concept of profit making, but believe agencies are somehow abusing their position?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Your post insinuated that the jobs needed qualification when it was blatantly obvious that there were plenty of jobs that anyone could apply for. You were trying to make a point that jobs weren't easily available as they needed qualifications. Thus trying to distort the facts or just being selective with the truth.

The truth is a lot of the jobs are not very attractive especially when they don't pay much more than benefits for some.

J

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

read what I said. You assumed and you know what assumption is the mother of do you not?

I stand by my belief in the option to properly retrain/train the unemployed :)

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

Well then people should get off their backsides and get themselves qualified????

How do people expect to get jobs if they're not prepared to make themselves employable.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There is a reason why some migrants can afford to take certain low paid jobs when others can't and that's because they can afford to live cheaper, rough it for a realtively short time and then go back home where the money they've saved goes a whole lot further than it would here.

A plumber mate of mine is working on a site where a small group of Polish guys are employed. Apparently they sleep in a minivan when not working and tend to go back to Poland every few weeks for a week or so before returning. They live very cheap, spend very little here but make far more than they could ever earn back home and use that money to buy or build properties over there. It's the sort of thing UK expats have done in the past in Germany for example, the difference now being the sheer scale of the problem.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

ok yet another fine moment where I have to repeat myself

You can not do full time courses while on JSA . You can take part time or evening courses but these take a long time before you get any results. Bear in mind an educational year is 10 months ish so in my mind those who are unemployed with no real skills should be allowed 1 year in education or a practical course while still claiming a benefit. The sick already can do this but those on JSA can not. As long as they apply themselves go to the courses and show they are getting results I see this as a good idea

Incidentally the courses the DWP offer those on JSA are as much use as a chocolate teapot

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

so basically you signed for an agency knowing you would not be able to do the work when it was offered ,how is that the agencies fault?.
Agencies provide a lot of work in this country ,they allow people to gain experience in certain jobs which would otherwise be hard to get

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

so what's wrong with getting a job stacking shelves or working in a pub and doing college courses ,or even better ,applying oneself at school and taking every opportunity to get qualifications at a younger age .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

nothing but there is not jobs for everyone unemployed so why not give them a year after all JSA is a mere fraction of the welfare bill.

Its very easy for you to say apply yourself at school yada yada but not all children are academic and to repeat other rhetoric I believe a change to the old Grammar school for the academic child and comprehensive schools to teach the none academic practical skills. These are all things I have said over and over . Also lets face it the young these days are not offered that much of an education due to the school system being seriously flawed

Oh and not everyone unemployed are young

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

So you want somebody ( taxpayer) to pay for a full time course, rather than have somebody pay or contribute to their own part time course?

So what if things take a long time?

There's many different types of courses of differing length available, from many providers. It doesn't have to be a year.

but i agree with you, job seekers should be allowed to undertake courses, as long as they pay back the costs for their tuition when they get a job, same as students.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So now Arthur suddenly agrees HMG needs to incentivise companies to do business here to create jobs, he won't keep whining about what they might do to achieve just that e.g. corporation tax cuts, reduced bureaucracy, simpler employment rules, etc...

Funny how 5 minutes ago he was arguing that mining uncompetitive coal is a good way to create jobs and that the unions of the 70's were a good thing... :rolleyes:

Perhaps dear old Arthur might like to explain how private companies can enjoy a level playing field and create the jobs he wants when they're competing with heaviliy subsidised state controlled ones.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

if it actually helps people into decent jobs with prospects why not ? in the end its got to be good isn't it? and if it worked then these who did well would have decent jobs possibly a career and then of course they would be paying taxes instead of spending taxes

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

My son (on ESA) has just been passed from one "course provider" to another (after taking a fee I suspect). He was given 8 weeks to complete the PC-based course with no support apart from being told which PC he should use.

He completed the course and got 100% in the final "exam" in less than 12 hours in the first week. He was told his results will be passed to the JC after the eight week period has passed.

In the meantime he was told to "go out and enjoy yourself" when what he actually wants is to get qualifications that count and get a job.

So he goes to the JC and the central library every weekday, both looking for employment and studying the only type of work he is probably suited to. A full 6 hours each day. He says that he has learned more in his own self-study time than on any course (school or college) that he has ever done.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I would like to try some courses being in the support group ESA, but I'm just worried to 'rock the boat' so to speak. Also I know full well that I don't think I'll be considering any employment in the near (and far) future. It would have to be home based though if that's doable and it'll be just for my own gain.

So I would effectively be wasting tax payers money which also doesn't sit too well with me so basically I can't win either way.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Have a word with your local JC DEA (Disabled Employment Advisor). Ours is a lovely person who really does seem interested in helping instead of just meeting targets.

Re: Benefit Cap v No work
 

I think this was the benefits cap of £500. and that woman was crying because she's set to lose £40 per week.
it wasn't really clear.

but £500 per week.
that's a lot of money if you're working.

but I am really fed up with hearing Dave and his fellow nutters constantly repeating that it pays to work. and how they come across that every single person on benefits doesn't want to work. *can* get a job tomorrow. and are scroungers.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Doesn't matter one little bit, how many suitable jobs do or don't exist, over £500 a week in benefits for somebody with just 2(ie not 8 or more) children is ridiculous and wrong.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What doesn't matter?

It is.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It in the context of somebody with 2 kids receiving over £500/wk in benefits it doesn't matter. Or are you are saying that as long as there are unemployed, people should be receiving that amount in benefits.