Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I get the impression he's from within VM's inner sanctum, so to speak, and possibly upper management if my gut is right, just a guess though

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I don't believe that is the case.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Like I said just a hunch :)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Copy his name and search for him on Digitalspy and then come back here.;)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

In which case: http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...6&postcount=46

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

He has much more interesting posts than that over there especially about the services he has.:D

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

:shocked: ;)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

"Anyone that takes up a position should also be aware that they will be expected to stay with the company for a minimum of 2 years or they will be required to pay back any monies given to help with their relocation, possibly pro rata the longer they stay there."

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Richard only a few posts back I already said that click HERE

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Please explain your above statement.

Additionally, why the foregone conclusion that someone with the same name on another site is the same person? How many "Peters" do you think there are registered in the world?

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

Indeed, it was copy/pasted. It was to show you your statement was ambiguous.

Additionally, it would be appreciated if members would not discuss fellow members and/or behave as though they were not a part of a given thread.

For the record, I do not work for Virgin Media.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

If it is you then you post a lot more over on that forum than you do here and they can be quite entertaining which makes reading them quite enjoyable to read.

I tend to mainly read the broadband threads but occasionally I read other thread on there.

If you are not that person then try reading them yourself as I do go on other forums apart from this one.

You may have noticed that I did not link to any particular posts either as finding them is down to them if they are that interested.


I posted virtually the same information which in both posts is correct, if anyone leaves within 2 years they have to pay any fees back possibly pro rata but either way the are jobs in Liverpool and no one I repeat no one has to move to Swansea to get a job, especially for less money and worse terms and conditions.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

@ Richard Coulter

This is a very long thread - so please forgive me if the questions I put below have been answered.

Exactly what is your standing with Virgin Media in relation to this matter (Albert Dock)? Are you a party to negotiations? An advisor to VM or an employee or a union? Or what?

The answers would more fully place your points into perspective.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

He has no connection to the union or Virgin Media as far I am aware, he may be involved in focus groups such as Carl Waring used to be.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I have a router attached to the roof above the 4th floor, does that count? If not, I did once get a 3G connection on a plane.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

:shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

That sounds much more sensible.

Why did you link to a thread about bisexuality :confused:

I am not employed by VM. Unfortunately, due to reasons of corporate confidentiality, I am unable to elaborate any further.

I am not in a VM focus group, nor connected to the CWU. The last time I had any involvement with trade unions was a long time ago. It was at the TUC conference in Brighton when Tony Blair was prime minister and Gordon Brown the chancellor. I had a brief chat with Gordon Brown after his speech. In the evening, I attended a dinner organised by the PFA (followed by a free bar :D) at which both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were present, but I didn't get chance to speak to them.

I spent much of the following day talking to the General Secretary of AMICUS (now part of Unite.) He was called Derek Simpson, he had a union credit card for expenses :cool: and went on to take part in a TV series following professionals at work (IIRC called "A Day In The Life Of") narrated by Adrian Chiles.

This was at the hotel where the IRA tried to blow up Margaret Thatcher, I can't remember it's name.

Would you like to see the CWU merged with Unite?

PMSL

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

The Hotel was the Grand at Brighton - I was in the Victoria Bar when it went off, and we all came out covered in plaster.

We got off lightly.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Good heavens, you were lucky not to get injured.

Yes, it was The Grand. We were staying at a hotel to the left facing away from the sea and were only there for the Professional Footballers Association dinner. We weren't allowed to actually stay at The Grand due to security reasons, as Tony Blair etc and all the living ex Labour Prime Ministers were staying there as they meet up at this time every year for dinner.

Were you there when you worked in the armed forces Hugh?

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

No, afterwards - I was active in Politics in the 80s and 90s, then got a life....:D

You can have a career, a family, and be active in politics - but usually only two out of three; I choose my career and my family - in hindsight, a very good choice...;)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

No the have completely different views and deal with completely different workforces and I do not see anywhere that they could overlay each other as they are to diverse.

I have been a member and branch official of both unions by the way and know what their aims are, I have also been a member and branch official of USDAW as well.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

OIC, I thought you might have been protecting the Government along with the police.

Well, unions have grown progressively weaker since the Thatcher laws of the 80's. Mr Cameron is reported to be intending to bring in more anti union legislation. Things may get interesting with this, the public spending cuts/job losses/pay freeze in the public sector and the dismantling/weakening of employment rights legislation.

Following the merger, Unite is now the largest union in the UK, whereas previously it was Unison.

I was thinking along the lines of there's "strength in numbers", but, if they are worlds apart, it probably wouldn't be possible.

Isn't USDAW the shopworkers union?

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Sainsbury's and B&Q warehousing covered by USDAW.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

The staff I feel sorry for are the ones who feel the need to go to Swansea especially considering the way they have been treated, the are many positions locally and I could never trust that company to be honest and offer any long term positions.

I expect that the ones thinking of going have no real ties up here such as relationship wise or mortgages plus they will have to stay there for at least 2 years or pay back any moving fees.

Most people have had no issue getting employment locally so moving to Swansea should never really have been necessary.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Perhaps those who have accepted a position in Swansea particularly wanted to stay with the company??

The way that many businesses are having to make efficiency savings in order to simply survive, in light of the worst economic times in living memory, unfortunately, means that employees will be required to be ever more flexible. Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures.

Expect to see more zero hours contracts, forced unpaid leave etc.

The next, more palatable, big thing will be homeworking. Large office buildings like Albert Dock, are very expensive to run. Think of how much it costs VM to pay the rent, NNDR, fuel, heating etc. It can cost thousands of pounds a year to maintain even one workstation space and that's before anybody has even been paid a wage!

If employees work from home a huge amount of time and money is saved.

With modern communication technology, web cams etc, the fantasy can become reality.

The employee gains by not having to pay travel costs and has more quality time, with journey times being cut. There are environmental/traffic congestion benefits too.

Why should people travel into the centre of Liverpool, when they can have a lie in, get ready and take a leisurely walk into their home office to complete their tasks?

It's a win, win, win situation!!!

There are some issues that will need to be ironed out, such as local authorities wanting to designate the offices as non domestic, therefore making them liable to Business Rates, employees may expect something towards their heating/lighting etc, customer confidentiality issues, insurance etc.

What do VM staff feel about, say, call centres like Albert Dock being run in this fashion?

The Government (DWP) and certain private sector companies (mainly in the communications field) are currently running low key trials.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I would not have gone as I did need feel the need to go due to my circumstances, many more will feel the same.

It is also a question of trust,could you ever truly feel safe with a company who are willing to make 435 people redundant and lose the accrued knowledge in that workplace which can never be replaced.

Try reading some of the answers the new 2nd line guys ( join dates November 2011 onwards ) are giving on the community forum, they are answers you would not even expect from an agent just out of Grad bay and even the members are questioning some answers given.

If they are the future expect many more disgruntled customers either leaving or seeking help elsewhere.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

yes I want to see more of this.

could this be done with call centre work? probably but companies like VM likely want to directly supervise their staff which I think is the main barrier.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

It can be done quite easily this company already does it but it is a Zero hours contract and you earn your holiday money as you go which is on top of the basic wage.

You just need a hard wired computer and a home office with a phone line, you incur no costs as it is all computer based and they have team managers remote listening and call stats, so it is just a virtual call centre.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Some are really shocking, I agree.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

That's not good

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

The problem you've got now is that the new 2nd line teams have nobody to turn to.

The average length of service of the 2nd line teams in Liverpool is about 8 years - you simply cannot replace that knowledge.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Agreed, I just assumed that 2nd line were called that because they had the necessary knowledge to problem solve past the usual 1st line dross.

From what your saying, it sounds like the new 2nd line peeps and basically English speaking 1st line agent's on a better salary :erm:

I would have thought a company the size of VM would have systems in place to ensure a transition of knowledge is passed on, ie retain at all cost's a certain percentage of old 2nd line staff to go down and train the new 2nd line guys.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

You've got it in one mate. Nice people and I wish them luck, but...

They've had some training, but they had to lower the test score pass rate (by a lot!) for them, so that tells you something! lol

VM have done nothing to keep the knowledge that Liverpool had, they didn't care about loosing it... their answer to that question was "we are prepared to take the hit on this"... they have been rather foolish IMO.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

My understanding was that Virgin sent staff from Liverpool 2nd line down to Swansea to do the training. That happened in November. Training would probably have lasted up until January so the guys in fairness are still new. Any new job takes time to get to grips with, besides if the staff know as little as you say they do then that speaks volumes for the staff that went to Swansea to train the job out.
I also hear that alternative roles were on offer but the majority of the Liverpool team were unsuccessful in their applications?!
Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Think what you like mate... just telling it as it is. Are you a VM Swansea staff member?

Yes some staff did go down to train them, but you can't get more than 8 years experience in 2 months.

No sour grapes... wish them all the luck in the world, I really do.

Not sure what your last sentence is about though?

BTW :welcome: to the forum

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I left VM in August, just before the announcement, kind of regret not staying now. I still have some close friends there - some in the new 2nd line and a few still in 1st line. I saw petes post on here and thought it was out of order, not all of those guys will hit the ground running but they all deserve a chance.

Thanks for the welcome btw :)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I'm not so sure that I would be worried about doing a good job of training if I was training someone to take my job. I have worked somewhere where selected people were asked to stay on, I refused but a few others took the extra months work but were only doing it for the extra money.

It's typical big arrogant company attitude thinking all that's required is 'A bit of training' It's why these sort of companies end up lacking employees with the correct skills, knowledge and experience :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Exactly.

Myself (and I'm sure Peter) have nothing against anyone in Swansea, as I've said they nice people. It's VM thinking it's just a bit of training for a 2nd line role that's wrong.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I'll take a look.

Supervision can be dealt with by static and remote controlled webcams, monitoring of the quality and quantity of work done eg computer generated stats, discreet monitoring of emails written, 'phone calls etc

Indeed! The trials I mentioned go even further than this :)

Indeed, and this process does not appear to have not been carried out as well as it could have been, to say the least.

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

Is this the impression that you've gleaned from the company, or was it an individual who actually said "we are prepared to take the hit on this"?

That fault was down to management, who should have put measures in place to ensure that the staff doing the training did a good job of it eg payment by results.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

A Virgin Media Director who was in charge of closing Albert Dock and Swansea becoming a In-House centre. It was said to a group of staff, including myself.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

They wrote a handbook out for them to try and replace the knowledge and experience being lost, which is the equivalent of giving them one of those Windows books for dummies that you can buy, you need to be able to interpret the book and have at least some of your own knowledge to combine the two but in reality it will not work.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

Unless you are actually aware of what the new 2nd line are replacing with regards knowledge then you cannot really comment.

Also first line agents should not have to point out which way to go when calling for help.

Also have you read some of the replies given on the community forum as even the other members are questioning some of them, some make you cringe and even I have corrected a few posts.

Just because you worked with some of the new guys at Swansea it does not mean that they can actually replace the guys from Liverpool.

Also in answer to your sour grapes jibe, if any of the Albert Dock 2nd line team had applied they would have got a job down there quite easily but strangely most have lives, families and mortgages up here so not an easy move, plus the are many jobs up here for them to apply for.

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

I have nothing against the people of Swansea as I have been down there in the past and for a young man with a Liverpool accent it was certainly a good place to have some fun with the local girls/women, I have some rather nice memories of my time down there, it was like taking sweets from a baby.

Anyone moving down there will enjoy themselves as long as they are aware of the requirement to stay for a minimum of 2 years or they will be liable for the moving expenses.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

The would be no requirement for webcams as we are in peoples homes and that would be intrusive, anything company wise would be via an intranet/workaway so they would not be able to access the employees own computer so everything the manager would see would be on the intranet/workaway.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

This is the way it works the world over. Have friends working in ILRC since they left school. know there jobs inside out, So jumped up know it alls straight of Uni. Say that every one must work from a script. Which they have written with out fail every week memos are sent around saying things are wrong. However look out if you fail to tow the party line. The "big boss" in there office was promoted from custom & excise & does not have a clue is, never seen & complains about everything - Latest Memo you must give your FULL first name ie Thomas not Tom even if you never use it. Hey you can even be put on a report for not doing so.
Give power and it shows how stupid some people can be. Never let anyone who knows what they are doing( Liverpool) keep the job its cheaper to give a script and hope for the best. please note the Liverpool jobs have come to my part of the world ( better then else were but still a daft move I feel.
Feel better now that is off my chest. Sorry

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

How much difference is there in reallity to 1st and 2nd line? hardly any, although I'm sure you'll disagree. They just have a couple of more applications with a higher level of access. My guess is that 99% of the current liverpool 2nd line were originaly 1st line?? So what's the difference here? Yes it's a fresh start and a couple of knowledgeable people are leaving the company but at the end of the day nobody is irreplaceable in any job role. And correct me if I'm wrong but there are 3 or 4 staff in the Swansea 2nd line who have over 10 years service and previous experience in 2nd line when it was based in south wales a few years back?
I've browsed the Virgin forum but can't see anything alarming at all, maybe a few mistakes with grammar but so what, wasn't Albert Einstein dyslexic? he seems to have done ok for himself.
And talking of cringing, your paragraph about taking sweets from a child? That made me cringe!

See you around.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Alas, it is too late when the experienced people are down the road signing on and the inexperienced with a bit of training are holding the reins.

Unfortunately it's the same 'just a little bit of training attitude' by management in most industries and most big companies these days.

In the industry and company I work for a similar problem exists, it has at last been recognised that they have too few engineers with RF experience. I have been employed working with RF for almost 30 years, and I probably have the least years under my belt compared to the other experienced guys at the company.

Management are expecting us to run some training courses so we can pass on our knowledge and have some of the other guys up to speed in no time!

I have long ago come to the conclusion that I must be a very slow learner if I have been at it for 30 years and I'm still learning:rolleyes:

It does have a positive side though, the guys with real experience are in demand and the ones likely to retain their jobs or get another if required.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

What Escapee said - don't confuse training with experience....

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Exactly :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I take it you know very little about the job 2nd line do otherwise you would not make such an assumption, our 2nd line have to be very knowledgeable and the majority are also very technically minded they are nothing like any 1st line agent either in Liverpool or Swansea.

The maybe one or two but they will have been Ex-NTL and not Ex-Telewest and all 2nd line went to Liverpool and 2 of those people you mention went with it.

Now that shows that you have either missed the relevant posts or just do not want to see them, the are a few both in the broadband and the television and telco sections, not going to post any as any bad posts are fairly obvious, also it is not just me saying this as Digi has seen some and the customers themselves.


It should have been like taking sweets from a baby, but you do know exactly what I meant so please do not try to twist it in order to fit in with your own little agenda.

In simpler terms your women especially in the ex mining villages are quite easy.:blush:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I also do not allow any of my staff to refer to themselves as "Dave" or "Andy" etc to customers. It sounds over familiar, unprofessional and slack.

If you feel confident in doing so, I would be grateful if you could give me the name of the Director in pm.

I do not tolerate any of my staff using poor grammar or spelling mistakes in anything that can be seen externally. If this genuinely cannot be avoided eg dyslexia, they are allocated other duties. This is because poor grammar and spelling looks unprofessional and creates a bad impression of the company.

I am surprised to see a trade unionist making such sexist remarks.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

In the Virgin Media world that is the norm and they want you to sound friendly and approachable, no starched collars, ties or suits required as every day is dress down day.


It may surprise you to know that people are young once and they do have a past and that was a long time ago well before the thought of trade unions raised their heads, nothing wrong in reminiscing on what once happened.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

It is my belief that many of the problems that VM currently have are in some way connected to this "dress down" attitude.

I accept that you were young once and were less mature, however, as a young man I never felt the need to treat/refer to women in such a derogatory fashion.

In addition, the sexist remarks were made today, not years ago.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Webcams are required to ensure that quality of work and discipline are maintained within the organisation. Employees not prepared to have a webcam in their home office would be at liberty to decline any offer of a job that entailed this.

Mobile webcams are on their way that will allow a member of staff to hold a virtual meeting with their managers etc

Research has shown that some employees expect payment towards the cost of heating, lighting etc for the room where the office is.

I do not believe that this is appropriate as the employer will be paying for all the equipment, yet the employee will be saving on travel costs, enjoying more free time and there are possible savings to be made on childcare costs too.

Their home will be more secure from burglary and fire, they will be at the house with any pets and be at home for deliveries, meter reading etc (although the latter will be done automatically in a few years time.)

An alternative solution may be to install a solar panel at the employees home where suitable. This would provide free electricity for the office and may be an extra income stream for the employer as the employee would be paying for any electricity used for their own use. This could be offset against the cost of installation of the panels.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

How on earth do you come to that conclusion, the is no need to be in a collar and tie in the type of job that call centre agents do and it shows in the work ethic that most agents have in the workplace.

As for dressing down this is part of the work ethic employed by Virgin Media in every single one of its call centres and each and every centre has excellent results.

So no idea were you get the idea of an attitude problem, or is because we in the Liverpool Centre refused to roll over and let the company extract the urine, they are being sued for this at present by the union and deservedly so.



I am on a public forum extolling the virtues that I pursued in my youth and if anyone takes offence then they have no need to read my words on that subject.

It is part of me and it will always remain in my mind a fond memory of a wonderful couple of weeks over a Christmas and New Year spent in my friends dads pub having a whale of a time many years in my past.

Now if I had gone into more detail then that would be different.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I'm not comfortable with that, sorry. :erm:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Even if customers etc cannot see the informal dress, it does change the way people work.

It is well known that if people dress in a business like manner, they also adopt a more business like attitude and act in a more professional way.

The problem with saying that people don't have to read your words, is that the offence caused has already taken place by the time a person has realised it!

There's nothing wrong with a stroll down memory lane, but times and attitudes change along with society. The overt sexism and racism that you have displayed towards Welsh women is no longer tolerated in polite company.

This behaviour could also potentially bring the CWU into disrepute. I strongly suggest that you retract your comments, apologise to anyone who may have been offended and desist from making any more potentially upsetting comments.

That's ok :)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

If that had ever happened then it would have been changed sharpish, but it did not and the company stood by its decision and it is part of the Virgin Media tenet.



I am writing as a private individual on a public forum and I am not an officer of any union so what I post is down to me as an individual so that is a spurious and rather stupid remark.


Are you now trying to act as judge and jury on this forum if so I kind of think that the team will take a very dim view of your posts or are you going to try and censor other threads as well as this forum does not require a Forum Host.

================================================== =========

Now as this is now getting way off topic lets get back to the actual subject matter.

As I have said a few times on here I rather doubt that the Albert Dock will actual reach its closure date of the end of April, as you only have to go on Facebook to see how many people are leaving even today.

Some are going to Knowsley but many are going eleswhere as Liverpool is lucky to have many vacancies at this time and many companies went on site head hunting.

I should be starting my own new position on Monday and the business I am going to is less than half the distance I did to get to Liverpool city centre, plus we actually get yearly wage rises unlike at Virgin Media.

I just want everything to work out for as many of my ex colleagues as possible, I include myself in this comment.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I have had my confirmation so Monday awaits, I will not post details as yet due to the thread above but the relevant people know where I am going.

Good luck to everyone at the Albert Dock and I wish them well with their endeavours in securing a new position.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Good luck Peter

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Thank you much appreciated.:)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Very glad to hear you are sorted Peter. Lets hope the rest of the VM Liverpool guys are as successful.

Can I also add that I have come to know you over the time you have been a member of CF and I assume that you, like most normal people, have changed and matured as you grew older so I viewed your earlier comments as being a candid reflection back on more youthful times.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Thank you Jo and I am looking forward to the change of job and many colleagues have new jobs lined up or companies actually headhunting experienced staff.



Yes I was reflecting on a time when I was much younger without any ties or responsibilities and to be more precise it was just before the miners strike as it was in a mining village, try finding one of those in South Wales nowadays.

If you are single and aware of the risks involved moving so far away from everyone then go for it but I know that the will be a low take up which the company realised from day one even though they paid lip service and offered the opportunity to move.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Good Luck Peter, let us know how you get on, on Facebook :)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Thank you much appreciated.

I expect more are leaving today as well down there.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Many are doing all right because once the other local firms knew what was happening they sent in head hunting teams with the Virgin Media's permission and gave company overviews and ran tests and gave out application forms.

I applied outside of this though and had 3 positions on offer but chose the nearest one to my house.

The are plenty of positions locally and the is no real need to go to Swansea.

thanks for your comments.:)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

It's a pity that the previous moderator comments were not respected.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Is an interesting paradox for sure. Its unbelievable how much long term service and versatile knowledge has been lost via the company's decision to consolidate and relocate departments to Swansea and take them in house. They may well have sent people down to train those at the end of the M4 corridor, but teaching a process is but one part of the puzzle. Those being taught need to have the fundamental understanding in the first place. Knowing the route of a technical flow really is not enough, as you need to really know why A is asked to reach B and end up at outcome C.

Regarding the difference between 1st and 2nd line - I would imagine due to the shifting of roles there are many whom have been "seconded" into 'level 2' roles purely to make up the team numbers. It's those long serving employees and a few old school undervalued technical minds that will be expected to carry the can. The fact that the company are desperately scrambling to employ staff to make up the numbers also speaks volumes, and sadly some will no doubt be employed purely because they can "use the Internet". Being able to log into facebook does not make one a technical support guru.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

There is great danger here of over-analysing the situation and inventing meanings, intentions and outcomes.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I think if you knew the staff who are being made redundant you would understand whizzard's comments more as they are not seconded 1st line agents in Liverpool as they have to be very knowledgeable and must pass a very stringent series of tests, unlike the new guys were we hear the tests and interviews were dumbed down in order to get people on board in the new positions.

If you spoke to a 2nd line agent from Liverpool you would understand exactly what I mean.

I know though that most have something lined up and at least one has gone up the ladder so good luck to them.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Peter

I've actually chatted to one or two in the AP canteen some months ago. I do understand what you mean. I don't know whizzard and I doubt that many people here do. So the problem here is similar to the one that RC caused; without a sense of authenticity, like who's got what standing in this sad matter, ordinary members don't know what's fact and what's supposition.

---------- Post added at 01:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:13 ----------

I've just learned that whizzard works at one of VM's facilities. So I accept the authenticity of what he says.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I did not realise that you were unaware that whizzard was a confirmed staff member on here good to see that you are now aware.:)

By the way the above post is a general comment and not specific to you in any way as not everyone reading this thread will be aware of the knowledge and experience being lost purely from the 2nd line team alone.

__________________________________________________ ____________________


On a separate note I did not apply for any of the positions when any companies came on site at the invite of Adecco, because up to the day I left I was only working part time for personal reasons and finished at Midday and all the companies came on site after 2pm.

So I applied for 3 positions of my own accord and received 3 offers, and with very little between them and chose the one nearest to where I live.

I am well aware of the content in the deleted post above but chose to ignore it as ignorance is not an excuse on the part of that person.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

My comments were in response to what were posted earlier by the Wolfman, as well as pointing out the very small amount of IT centric workforce opportunities and therefore experienced vacancy hunters with an in depth IT career background that exist the Welsh side of the Severn Bridge. Nevertheless, the wheels on the cog will not fall off, just the transitional journey in the weeks and months ahead will be bumpy and require resurfacing.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

They will not fail but they will struggle for a while with the new 2nd line once the Liverpool guys finally leave the building.

As I said above though some of the answers given on the community forum do get a sharp intake of breath or even a guffaw.:erm::D

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I don't disagree, but some of the guys in Swansea really know their stuff and they are willing to learn.

Again though to echo your comments, the dock will be missed.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

You can tell which ones know their stuff and which ones don't and it is painfully obvious who they are.

The long term guys are fine but it is some of the newer ones who get stuff wrong a person in Grad bay would get right and some are .:eeek:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

They have Grad bay there for them too :D

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Not quite what I meant but you already know that.:D

I did speak to one in grad bay and the issue was obvious but still he had to ask a floor walker.

Now that is behind me and I start my new job tomorrow but not mentioning it for personal and other reasons as per this and another thread.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

:tu:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I recently watched a programme about Albert Dock many years ago, when dock workers were being made redundant because of changes to industry practice.

The same thing has now happened with the affected VM employees (but it could and should have been handled a lot better) and will no doubt happen again to other people in the future.

The world of work constantly changes and I do not see that changing anytime soon, in fact it will soon start to change in a faster and more extreme way than, even a few years ago, anybody could possibly have imagined.

No matter what ones personal beliefs are about the subject, in order to stand a chance of remaining relevant in the workplace, employees are going to have to get ever used to more flexible and innovative ways of working. This includes doing more, for less with decreasing resources.

A lot of people will resent this, but, unfortunately, the worst is yet to come as people face the stark choice of rising to the challenge or falling by the wayside (and don't expect/rely on the Government to step in to help- they may not be in a position to be able to).

Sorry to be so despondent, but forewarned is forearmed.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

I think we already know things are changeing quickly we have been told the above by governments for years.;)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

You make a very valid point, but this time it's "for real".

A lot of my time is spent analysing financial issues and I have never known things to be this bad. ALL of my business contacts report trading difficulties to a greater or lesser extent and some are hanging on only by a thread.

Even well respected financial experts are now alarmed at the future prospects for most of the world, including the UK.

Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary solutions and it is my belief that the old social, class, political etc divisions that many cling onto must be cast aside so that we can all work together to get through this.

As disposable income continues to fall, VM, like all other businesses, must continue to be run as efficiently as possible. The austerity measures taken by the Government haven't even filtered through yet. Massive voluntary/public sector job losses, tax rises, benefit cuts are all on the way.

I have reduced the amount that I draw from my own company and in turn have had to reduce my personal outgoings. Because I reduced the hours of my cleaner, she says that she no longer goes to the bowling alley midweek to balance her books. It's like a pack of cards, as people receive less, they spend less and this has a knock on effect on the employees of the businesses that they spend money at.

Another example is Pay TV. In previous recessions, Pay TV has done well as people see it as a cheaper form of entertainment than, say, a night out. As disposable income continues to fall dramatically, people will face a stark choice of Sky Movies or paying the mortgage.

A lot of employees seem to distrust their employer, when, in reality, most are fair and want the best for their workforce.

I have ensured that all of our staff have been informed as to why unpopular measures have had to be taken to ensure the future of the business and, consequently, their employment.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

You must want to go back to the past and the image below seems to be what you believe the future should be, how sad.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/03/57.png

Next you will be advocating a return to the workhouse because you see others as a lower class little better than animals.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Maybe we should doff our cap and say "yes sir right away sir kiss your arse sir" Maybe lick the bosses boots as well :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

It would save me a fortune in shoe polish......;)

Let's not tar all managers with the same brush, please.....:)

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Agreed

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

These are excellent examples of the old fashioned attitudes that have no relevance in the modern workplace.

It's not a case of myself thinking that this is how it should be, it's how it will be.

I believe that most people, including yourselves, are not aware of how serious the situation is. If we are to have any chance of surviving as a country, you and many other people are going to have to significantly undergo a change in attitude in order to simply survive.

For example, one employer has imposed an extra five weeks holiday a year (unpaid) and largely expects the same amount of productivity.

Of course, this change to a contract of employment could not legally be done without the written agreement of the employee. Were they happy to do so, of course not. Did they sign the documents, yes. Why? Because this prevented even more redundancies.

Can you have imagined this scenario, even a few years ago?

I won't dwell on this, as one day in the future, even though you don't yet know it, you will realise that you have little choice but to adapt.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

A breach of the Working Time Regulations 1998 and the company should be prosecuted for such ignorance.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Thank you for your attempt at giving us attitude adjustments.

I have looked at what you have stated and can now confirm that as you do not know me or anyone else on this forum and based on my or there day to day work it means what you are saying has no relevance. Your constant questioning of vm staff about what they do, what they think of there employer and employment has nothing to do with you what so ever and frankly it is starting to look a lot like stalking.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Would you care to elaborate and share your knowledge with the rest of us?

I can then run it by the company solicitor.

As previously explained, if you have a problem with me or any other member of Cable Forum, you should use the ignore facility.

I do hope that you show your manager and colleagues more respect.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Very much so

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

You are not a moderator here, do not presume to tell members what they should or should not do.

You are treading on very thin ice atm, you have been warned about your attitude towards our members here, specifially VM employees. I suggest you heed it if you wish to continue posting.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Whoever they are they are extracting the urine and anyone that stays as one of his employees must be pretty dumb because unless they are getting paid for those holidays the is little point staying with that company.

The boss is nothing more than a thief who is preying on his staff and if they were my employer I would be taking them to a tribunal for constructive dismissal as that is an abuse of power.

5 weeks unpaid holiday means a loss of a minimum of £1500/£2000 and that is a cut to far for most people and if you even that out over a year they are probably now below minimum wage.

Your friend/colleague/acquaintance whose company this is the lowest form of boss you can have and I for one would wish a company such as that to go out of business as his employees would be better employed looking for a position with a employer that has a conscience.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

The employer that I was referring to is actually a Local Authority, so let's hope that your wish that they "go out of business" does not bear fruit, as a lot of people such as the elderly, disabled, children etc would suffer greatly if they did.

The employees accepted that it was the best way to tackle a bad situation and prevent even more redundancies, which could have been either themselves or their colleagues.

They have been selfless, not dumb, in showing loyalty to both their employer and service users (many of whom are vulnerable members of society) and I applaud them for this.

The people that did this could have taken voluntary redundancy as an alternative if they wanted to leave, but many realise that it is very difficult to obtain alternative employment in the current economic climate.

They all signed a new contract of employment and Unison have scrutinised it for any legal irregularities, including ensuring that the minimum wage regulations are satisfied for the hours that they work.

Unfortunately, we will be seeing more and more zero hours contracts.

Tesco, for example, now use them and if the wages budget is exhausted, employees are required to take unpaid leave.

This arrangement, in my view, does not breach the 1998 Working Time Regulations, a summary of which is supplied below along with my comments as to why not.

28 days’ paid annual leave per year- they will still receive this.

An average 48 hours a week working limit- this will be adhered to.

A limit of eight hours (average) work in a 24 hour period for night workers- as will this requirement.

Free health assessments for night workers- and this.
11 hours rest in a 24 hour period- and this.
24 hours rest per week- and this.
Rest breaks for those who work more than six hours- and this too.

I too don't like the way that employers are having to respond to the very serious economic challenges, but it's the harsh reality that we are all going to have to face up to.

In the old days, groups of desperate men would all turn up at Albert Dock on a daily basis touting for work and a select few would be picked for one days work only, with the rest being sent home- let's hope we don't return to those days.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Well if I worked for a local authority and it did that then I would not be working for it for long as that is taking money from people and in all likelihood causing hardships and the employees having to claim from the state.

If the was a local authority doing this somehow I think it would have made the national news as that would be scandalous and the chief executive and his complete team should lose their jobs, I also doubt they are giving up 5 weeks wages but them again on the kind of wages they are on it would hardly be noticed.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Google doesn't show anything on this topic (local authority five weeks unpaid leave).....

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Are you at all surprised by that ?

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Maybe this:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/9399..._as_perks_cut/

or similar, but different numbers in question:

http://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co....s&q=&Itemid=25

There's more than one local authority doing it.

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

Bit of a difference between 1 day in York and 25 days, IMHO.

Re the Dorset example, it didn't happen...

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/new..._unpaid_leave/

Re: Virgin Media Closing Albert Dock
 

As above it would have been national news and the chief executive would have probably stepped down and be suing the government by now for loss of earnings.;)