Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

what news channel was it -i haven't seen any one supporting violence -and i haven't heard any one employing union rent a mobs on the news ?
a link to this proposed anarchy would be helpful .
and which unions will be renting out hooligans in future protests ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Funny thing when i see the word student what i think of is someone interested in learning and having some level of intelliigence allowing them to do that. What i saw yesterday was a bunch of morons who have done more damage to their so called cause then benefit and have damaged it beyond repair now. What i also saw yesterday was how far we have slipped in dealing with matters like this for any of them to have got so close to high ranking member of the royal family without serious injury does indeed beg further attacks on them in the future.

Also where was the protection for everyone and everything else, do we really now have a police force so scared to deal with people like this in a quick and harsh fashion that we allow untold damage and violence in our capital what an impression to give the world. Sorry but for me this should never have been allowed to escalate to the point it clearly got too yesterday and for anyone to be defending what happened just beggers belief it really does i have no problem with defending or even fighting for your cause but you do it the right way and the positive way not how they did it yesterday.

If we are now a country too scared to deal with people like this in the way they deserve then the whole rights thing has clearly gone too far and we need to back away from it enough that the peaceful law abiding citizen and protestor are protected but those who wish to use damage and violence find themself on the end of exactly that from the authorities.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The media must take their share of the blame. As I understand it, the change is that Universities will be allowed to charge up to £9,000. This does not mean they will (they will compete on price with other Unis). The media have singularly failed to make this clear.

As do I. There is a legitimate protest, but I think it has been hijacked by people who have their own agenda that has little or nothing to do with students. People who either want to topple the government, want the chance to nick expensive goods and not get caught (riots are good for this, especially in large shopping areas such as Oxford and Regent Street) and those who just like a good fight.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

There was a news briefing by student union leaders just now on Sky news in which they refused to admit there was any violence last night except from the police and saying that they intend to get the unions to join in there demonstrations, That can only mean that the police will be confronted by even more idiots fighting in the streets, smashing shop windows.

As for a link it was a live broadcast on the TV and therefor i cannot link to that but showed student union reps voicing there agreement with the violence last night and yes they did agree live on air with the violence.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I wonder if it's going to be a regular thing. these student protests.
once a week until something major happens.

if you think they're bad then the last thing we need is the dole rioting :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I have no problem with people carrying out there right to peaceful protest. What happened last night was far away from peaceful and was orchestrated and intended.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

The police are not only fighting the hooligans but they are also fighting the health and safety act, the Human Rights act, and anything else the lawyers can throw at them.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

There is apparently another gathering on Monday - I don't think for one minute this is the end of the demonstrations.

The Police did a fantastic and frankly very brave job last night, I'd also be charging some of those morons for animal cruelty, i.e attacking the Police horses, you saw one horse yesterday without it's rider and it was very clearly distressed.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And these people are the future. It's enough to make you reach for the cynanide.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Does anyone have a link where the NUS have supported the violence?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Anyone seeing the group of student union leaders including that ghastly Ckare Solomon on the BBC?

Apparently there was no violence, it was a good natured, radical process and, suprise surprise, it's all the police's fault.

I don't know how they have the bare faced cheek, I really don't.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Statue of Winston Churchill.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/79.jpg

The Cenotaph.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/78.jpg

The Trafalgar Square Christmas tree.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/80.jpg

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

TBF, Aaron Porter is quite moderate and intelligent.

The problem lies beneath him where student union leaders at specific universities (like Clare Solomon) who are part of the membership rather than leadership.

---------- Post added at 11:48 ---------- Previous post was at 11:44 ----------

A little background for those in the know - The Trafalgar Square Christmas Tree is an annual gift from Norway as a thank you for supporting them against the Nazis in WW2. Coupled with that horrible bitch trying to damage the Cenotaph, that just says it all really.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It was a live video briefing by the members of the student union committe on Sky news

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------

It was on sky news as well, The press members were stunned at what they were listening to.

---------- Post added at 11:58 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------

student hooligans and *******s

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That sir is 100% correct.

Nick Clegg makes himself look more of an idiot with each passing day - Wednesday he says that he would scrap all university fees if he could, but in the meantime he will vote to triple them, for no actual reason that I can see. So if there's no reason, then why are you voting for something thats the polar opposite to what you believe in?

We are saddling every young person who goes to University and subsequently earns over £21k with £9k worth of debt. Thats the equivalent of making each graduate take a loan out for a new car.

As for the Police horse situation, there were two policemen who came off their horses and neither were pulled off by students, one came off because his horse skirted then his saddle came undone and the other came off because his horse reacted to a firework...saw them both happen.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Of course it was politics that was the source of the dispute, it doesn't justify what happened.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Unusual use of the happy smiley there, imho....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well if people riot due to unemployment they will soon find themselves doing some unpaid work repairing the damage they have done :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

NUS are on sky now retracting there earlier statements

:LOL:

I had a feeling they would be on pretty Quick with a disaster recovery after that briefing this morning.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Is there a link to what the NUS said?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think the media are stirring stuff up about the Police protection of Chuck 'n Cammi - for instance, Sky News report It was actually a mile away (see attachment).

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Punky it was live again will look for the transcript or video.

Keep an eye on Sky news they might show it again.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

According to the Times (paywalled)

So, apparently the road was clear minutes earlier, but the protesters just happened to materialize there just before the car arrived.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

To be fair, it was on Regent Street (just up from Piccadilly Circus - see map in previous post), and if you saw the film footage, the street was teeming with tourists and shoppers.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

A sad smiley would be too worrying, imho....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

You have to wonder if it's smart to transport the heir to the throne in a fishbowl though.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

<Edit Rob: Insulting comment removed>

It's called governing, I don't know if you've been keeping up on recent events but the Lib-Dems didn't win the election

Their pledge was if they "won" the election.............which they didn't.

They were asked into partnership with the tories, and the price for that partnership was that they to scrap that pledge in order to govern for the greater good of the country.

And to be honest, in the great scheme of things, this is a minor issue that doesn't deserve anything like the attention or reaction it's been getting.

Have to read the policy???????????? do you actually know what you're complaining about, do you know the facts.

Firstly it's "up to" £9,000. £9,000 is not a flat across the board fee. It depends on what Uni you're going to.

Secondly those from the poorest backgrounds will 1 - 2 years free.

Everything that happened was caused by, and is the responsibility of, the rioting idiots nobody else.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

In regards to the royal party being attacked, which firstly is a serious criminal act, and secondly, the party could have gone a different route, l know that area quite well, BUT, if this area has been checked out there would have been placed 'other' officers on that route to protect the royals, BUT again no one could have stopped what happened last night, that road is no where near where the riots was.

The stupid idiot on Sky News saying that 'it was just up the road' he should look at a map, you can only get into Argyle Street one way, and that is the way the car went.

I hope the culprit, who threw the paint, likes prison food, as that is where he will go.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Thank you for your clarification.........

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And now on Sky News its the "It's all the fault of the Police" show.

Simon Hardy (insert favourite descriptive term for genitials here)

"Self defence is no offence. The Police shouldn't be heavy handed"

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Love your casuistry - the policeman wasn't pulled off the horse by a student, he came off the horse because of a firework; do you think one of the protesters may have been involved in lighting/throwing the firework?

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------

Mmmmmm - the police get caned for letting the students (and associated rentamob) run riot at Millbank, then the police get caned for not letting the students (etc etc) run riot in Parliament Square.....:confused:

btw, people don't (in my experience) normally carry snooker balls for self-defence, or paint graffiti on statues for self-defence....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Regents street runs from Piccadilly Circus up to the Junction of Oxford Street, just before that you have Argyle Street.

Have the students gone up that far, or are they vigilanties or a group of thugs that are different to the students, at this time of year there are loads of tourists in that area, but what were the royals going up in the open glass car.

And why were the windows of the car half opened, when it was freeezing cold ousdie ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Perhaps there had been some Royal Love Action™ happening in the back seat, which had caused the windows to steam up, so they were just demisting them when the fracas occurred?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That just makes me ill.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/46.gif

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Perhaps that's how the window got cracked - a high heel thrashing about in the throes of ecstasy in the back of the car, hits the side window, and the cover-up story begins...........

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Maybe she looked at her reflecti.............
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/46.gif

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Turns out that that horrible bitch is Cambridge Student Charlie Gilmour, son of Pink Floyd's David Gilmour. Oh. He's reading history...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-Cenotaph.html

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:LOL: He does look like a woman.

It's amazing Charlie Gilmour's change in attitude. I'd stick £20 on his father threatening to write him out of the will. It's funny how much people's socialist credentials go out the window when money is at stake.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Here is the schmuck on the BBC

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Dude looks like a lady... oops wrong band

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's also interesting how many people find socialist credentials when their money is at stake but have no qualms complaining about an outflow of their money to others. Seems to be a recurring theme.

Hah that is a 'man'. I've seen more meat on a dodgy kebab shop chicken wing.

Beyond comedy, if that were a piece of satire I'd find it amusing, if a bit absurd.

He's a great case for increased tuition fees to be honest. If he's still stupid enough to try defending the indefensible he should have paid in full for his own wasted education, not a penny from the tax payer.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

What they should do, find the culprits, put them in a prison ship, and take it to the Atlantic, and sink it, and make them swim home as a punishment.

They are sick people, and despite them saying they will not stop at more demos, they won't change anything - so what is the point.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think it's his scarf that makes him look like a woman ;)

That all seems a bit presumptuous to me. He's a plank alright, and no doubt having a famous father will have contributed to the swift apology, but other than that it's all speculation.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hmm drowning seems a little harsh to me...

This government is so weak they might well change things, they flip flop better than any other flip floppy thing I have ever seen besides having little chance of success shouldn't stop people trying, if that were the case the human race would still be living in caves.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I LOLed at this bit:

A Cambridge University student who doesn't know what the Cenotaph is, where it is or what it looks like. :rofl:

---------- Post added at 17:46 ---------- Previous post was at 17:40 ----------

I agree it's completely presumtupous and speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true..

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

At least Dave Gilmour can claim it is not through blood as Charlie is adopted, I wonder what Roger Waters will make of his escapade as he lost his father in WW2.

http://music.aol.co.uk/2010/12/10/da...test-cenotaph/

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yeah me to, it's a bit of paint, it's not like they were chased down a tunnel and murdered is it :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Why is it someone explain, the Police are having to deal with hooligans, throwing stuff at them, someone ends up in hospital having a baton across his head, and the police are getting blamed for cuasing the aggrox for there heavy handedness.

So, what about the thugs putting 4 policeman in hospital with serious injuries, the policeman who was pulled off his horse, even though they were being battered left right and centre, and yet they were still caring for the thugs, but its a case of police cannot win, no matter what they do.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Also there was a broken window on the car and Camilla was physically attacked through an open window.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I'm not sure what your point is. Please elaborate?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It was aimed at the comment that it was just a bit of paint.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't see any mention of the pledge, pictured below, being contingent on their winning the election.

For those with poor or failing eyesight / memories it states:

"I pledge TO VOTE AGAINST ANY INCREASE IN FEES in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce A FAIRER ALTERNATIVE" (my emphasis).

Clearly there was no inference that this pledge was contingent on their winning the election unless, of course, we are expected to believe by way of some paradoxical anomaly that they were intent on pressuring themselves to introduce a "fairer alternative" than what they, themselves, might propose.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/76.jpg

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The comment that was a joke?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Broken promises
President of the National Union of Students Aaron Porter said students were "incredibly disappointed and angry".

"We've taken to the streets in our thousands, won the arguments and the battle for public opinion. We have lost in the House of Commons only because MPs have broken their promises," he said.

"But this is not the end and our protests and our work have sparked a new wave of activism which will grow stronger by the day.

"As they come for the education maintenance allowance, as they seek to raise interest rates on our loans and as they peddle lies about fairness we will expose their betrayal."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I believe they will carry on and it'll probably get much worse. they're rebelling against the government itself now.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/74.jpg

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

only the lying betraying members of said government surely ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's different. Anyone the Police injure was only there to exercise their right to protest and was doing nothing wrong, they just happened to be pushed to the front of the riot by a big boy who ran away.

The Police on the other hand were injured by people responding to them stopping their democratic right to smash things up and act like thugs, it's their own fault really. :erm:

Well that's the impression I get from listening to the 'student' leaders on TV who seem less than happy about revealing exactly what they are studying and if they ever intend on getting a proper job.

Any sympathy I had for students is now gone. There wasn't this level of protests when the tuition fees were introduced in the first place, or when the review to their levels were introduced.
However when a predominately Tory government actually does something with them there is hell to pay. I wonder why that is? :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's quite interesting really. I think if you were to ask students (or anyone) who the PM is. they'd guess it was Nick and not Dave :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Fair shout, but the pledge was still made on the understanding that they wouldn't be part of a coalition government.

Clegg has made it clear that this is somthing that ideally they wouldn't havewanted to do, but when they were negotiating the terms of the coalition agreement this was a policy they had to compromise/concede on.

That's just a fact, if they had gone into this coalition and had been able to keep every policy that they wanted then it wouldn't be a coalition would it?

Likewise with the Tories, they've had to concede on some of their manifesto.

I don't see why "educated" students can't understand the reality of the situation?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Problem is this is going to get worse because the next bunch of idiots will wait till its warmer before they start there trouble and destruction of public property.

They will learn from the actions of and reaction to the hoodlum students and turn this country upside down. The problem will be that the next bunch of hoodlums will have more money to fight with and i honestly think it will end up with innocent people being murdered by them AGAIN.

The next bunch of hoodlums will say they are doing it to prevent government cuts but we all know it will be because they don't like this government and to be honest have all ready said they intend to bring the country to its knees. I just hope they don't kill anyone as they have done in the past

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

This is this coalition's big challenge. They have to entice people used to having their Labour cushioned arses wiped for them into accepting responsibility for themselves rather than assuming the government will do things for them or at very least give them money.

It's not going to be pleasant but it is, from my Centrist point of view, absolutely required to avoid the UK being pulled even further to the left.

If people stop and look this government isn't a patch on past Tory governments in terms of size of the state, not even close, and their cuts to services are pretty tame. They only seem large due to the unprecedented (in peace time) swelling of the public sector the previous administration carried out.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

More poeple should remember who got us into all these messes rather then who is trying and having to sort them out but then that would require a bit of memory and concentration which is not something many seem willing or able to do anymore. As for more protests sorry but you can replace the word protests with trouble because thats all it's going to be and all in the run up to xmas when familys will be out trying to enjoy themselves.

Sorry but right now public opinion is not on the side of students not even the most drug crazed idiot could realistically claim that and the more trouble they cause the more public opinion will turn against them and the calls for more extreme response to them will increase. Hell if it was upto me i would already have the army handling any further protests.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That can be said about most, if not all parties, that have had contol of this country.

What army would that be then? Most of our forces seem to be out right now protecting other citizens and other countries. :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

could use the navy as they have no boats to play with ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Please enlighten me then as to why it is that countries all over the world need to take austerity measures?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think an important and oft overlooked part of the student position is that they have seen that a banking system was let run riot and bring the UK to the point of bankruptcy.

The reality is that as a result and consequence of those actions they, and indeed many others whom I have no doubt will follow suit in the coming months, are angry that they are having to pay for those mistakes whilst the banks continue, largely unpunished and true to form, refusing to lend to increase the buoyancy of the market and blackmailing the "Government" with odious threats of taking their business elsewhere if they are not allowed to continue to speculate and gamble, at a whim, the future of the entire UK economy, education, and employment.

As I have stated previously, if the future academia of the UK are prepared to protest and risk a criminal conviction in an effort to stand up to austerity cuts what might we expect from those who themselves think they have nothing to lose - like the disabled and the unemployed who are in the crosshairs?

As Sirius has said above we've seen what can happen when heated disputes get out of hand. People do die, Blair Peach and Ian Tomlinson being but two examples.

The reality is that not all students are as short sighted / stupid as many posters in this thread would like to believe.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I think the last four words in that sentence are superfluous. :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Because people were pressured by governments and the media, to make easy money by buying houses which they couldn't afford. So, when rather than if(or so they were told) the price increased they could sell it for a large profit and therefore cover any debts. The Banks etc lent money on the basis that if any individual borrower got into problems, the price increase could cover the bank's money. They didn't take into account what would happen when too many people got into problems and therefore there were more properties for sale, but less people able to buy them.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

If they are happy to believe the first paragraph is entirely the source of the current issues they are most certainly short sighted / stupid.

I would suggest that only people like Ken Livingstone and others on the left believe the banking system is entirely to blame for all our ills. There are many reasons for the issues largely focussing around economic mismanagement in the past decade.

It is however a convenient excuse and a wonderful scapegoat without a doubt. I'd be looking closer to home at things like increasing the number of undergraduates dramatically without giving appropriate thought to funding, the unfunded EMA, billions in 'off the books' PFI spending.

Even with the UK economy apparently very healthy and growing consistently, the best times seen in a very long time even if they were largely an illusion, Labour were managing to spend more than the record tax receipts, and that was just what was being spent 'on the books' ignoring expenditures shuffled around like some cynical corporation trying to avoid tax. Or in this case avoid being held to account.

The policy to get 50% to university was wrong, it continues to be wrong, it's done nothing to address skills shortages as the degrees don't have value in the context of the labour market. It's merely robbed us of many skilled trade professionals who instead of doing vocational training did some nonsense degree and are on the dole or underemployed.

Due to this wholesale dilution of the value of degrees the old train of thought, that investing in higher education was valuable as graduates would earn more than their counterparts so put more back into the chancellor's coffers than was spent educating them, is in doubt.

We're stuck, it sucks, it's not the fault of bankers. We either need to jack up taxes a lot or reduce spending. Our economy isn't compatible with jacking taxes up at this time, which leaves....

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Care to explain your comment in more detail rather than merely insulting anyone who doesn't share your point of view? :)

I appreciate it's not the modus operandi of most of those opposed to the austerity measures actually explaining their views coherently but if you could it'd be most welcome, thanks!

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't recall my, or indeed their, use of the word "entirely".

Your subsequent assertion in relation to short sightedness / stupidity is, therefore, rather moot.

Still, feel free to vent your spleen in an attempt at, to coin a phrase, "insulting anyone who doesn't share your point of view". ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Unlike your statement, it was a blanket statement not directed at anyone in particular, and certainly not directed at anyone who doesn't share my point of view. Nevertheless, feel free make assumptions regarding my views and to criticise the perceived coherence of the arguments of those who you think don't share your views.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I would regard my post as not insulting anyone. If we are being pedantic I used the word 'If' as the very first word within my post, so the statement was conditional not absolute ;)

I would also suggest that neither you nor I you know the viewpoints of every student so to make any claims regarding their viewpoints as a whole would be inaccurate. It's probably a fair assumption that some of them, in common with many other demographics, are quite happy to entirely blame bankers for the issues. Most of a left-wing slant whose ideological slant is towards big state, big spending, comprehensive welfare and the like are going to struggle with the idea that those policies contributed to recession.

The rest of the post wasn't insulting anyone, it was what I regard as realism, stating the blindingly obvious with the benefit of hindsight.

Am I to surmise you can't disagree with its' content given you describe it as spleen venting but offer no correction? :)

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Unless you are calling yourself stupid and short sighted it's a fair assumption you are discussing people whose views don't match your own. My comment also stands that it's worth elaborating on such a provocative statement.

You suggested:

It would be good to know who you are actually discussing, just for future reference, so that we know who danielf considers short sighted and stupid :)

My statement again wasn't blanket hence use of conditional statements as opposed to absolutes. I've learned thanks to far too many mistakes not to write absolutes on emotive subjects :D

I wasn't criticising perceived coherence, coherence isn't really a matter of perception so much it's either there or it isn't. Most of those I have been exposed to who disagree with austerity measures can't come up with any coherent argument beyond complaints about how it affects them personally. Just my experience, many posters on here being notable exceptions.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Not at all. You get stupid people everywhere. It's not limited to people leaning to the right or left.

You don't do humour very well do you?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Bah. I was hoping to catch you out.

I do humour just fine, I was poking to see what would happen. :angel:

Well played. ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Indeed and lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Members of the public aren't unique in dying during riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock

Anyway now that's out the way I'm hearing rumours that since the little darlings are so unhappy about being 'kettled' that a new, more continental, system of riot control is being looked into.

It may be a good time to invest in companies who make water cannons. :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

what does that have to do with student protests ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I'm sure they will accept your explanation / apology with grace.

I have made no claim with regard to their viewpoints nor am I prepared, as you appear to be doing, to jump to conclusions as to what they may or may not attribute as being the "entire" cause of the current economic state.

That's another political assumption assuming benign ignorance on that part of society whom you deem to be of a "left wing slant". You really, really need to stop this unhealthy fixation with left / right policies, perceptions and prejudices. Life is much, much more complicated than that.

As far as your earlier assertion "it's not the fault of the bankers" is concerned your "realism" is, rather conveniently, somewhat at odds with the realism of several hundred milion other individuals and, oddly enough, Mervyn King.


See above. It is pointless my even attempting to disagree with your idelogical austerity advocacy given the fact that you have not yet realized (or better still refuse to acknowledge) where the bulk of the blame lies for the current situiation.

You are attempting to make the idiotic and irresponsible behaviour of the financial sector appear to be a political issue when, quite clearly, it is an apolitical financial matter. The financial sector is neither left nor right, they have no master nor allegiance beyond greed.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Just replying to Mr A who replied to my previous post about people taking the rioting to far. If you dont like it you know where the report post button is i am sure.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yes Derek, I'm well aware that death is not exclusively the preserve of the public in riot / confrontation situations.

My point was, as subsequently proven, that there those who will use any opportunity to post hysterical anti union propaganda in an attempt to portray union members and activists as blood thirsty murderers.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

i have no wish to report anyone -although it would be nice if vented your hatred for every thing that is union in a thread dedicated to the subject .
this thread isn't about trades unions its about students .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

So i take it the Student union has nothing to do with organising the present round of student protests and yes i do understand its student union not trade union, But your right i will wait till the right time to bring the subject up again. ;)

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Indeed

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I agree it's more complicated, it doesn't change though that both right and left have much to answer for. In the most recent case the left-wing policies robbed the economy of money for remedies to the issues extreme right-wing policy caused.

Ah didn't say it wasn't their fault at all. They certainly must take some share of the blame. As must Mr King for his part in it all, so it's a struggle to take him too seriously and many arguments have been presented against him. Fundamentally the bankers did what they did to satisfy demand, a demand which should never have been there in the first place and was put there, both here and in the United States, by the actions of politicians.

I don't advocate it, I'm just yet to see a viable alternative. Believe me I find nothing pleasant about cutting welfare and public services when it's accompanied by tax rises.

The irresponsible behaviour of the financial sector was in response to idiotic and irresponsible behaviour on the part of those who should have been regulating them.

They were the engine behind the bursting bubble, the fuel was political, making property into an 'investment' by raiding pensions to fund unnecessary public spending and engorgement of the public sector for ideological reasons.

I apologise if I wasn't clearer. Obviously those in the City were gambling, but they were empowered to do so by poor regulation, appalling political moves and governmental mismanagement of the economy.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It could have been a lot more than paint. Luckily it wasn't.

Think about it. The Police sent the heir to the throne into a riot. How is that not a massive failure of Royal Protection?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I found this curious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Wilkie

How do you 'accidently' end up on the bridge over the road that just happens to be the route of an infamous "scab" (their words, not mine) at the exact time the car carrying him passes by, and 'accidently' happens to be carrying a 46lb concrete block and 'accidently' happens to be over just the right lane of the road as the car and then 'accidently' happens to be lifting said concrete block in such a way as it could clear the fence and then 'accidently' drops the block just as the car went undeneath?

Time reduced to 8 years, served for 4 and out on Wilkie's 5th anniversary of his death. Good result for a cold-blooded deliberate murder.

And then you get NUM **** like Kim Howells who upon hearing the death was that he feared his implication and destroy as much evidence as he could.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Careful Punky or you will be classified an hysterical anti unionist

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's fine so long as I can classify anyone that does the same with deaths of protesters as hysterical anti-police.

All's fair and that.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

just to change tack slightly ,i came accross this piece in the telegraph .Would the students be any better off ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No need for a label there Sirius. The libellous description of Howells does away with that.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I know you've being having a good ding dong with ignitionnet, but allow me to jump back in.

I don't think it's overlooked, and I agree it's important, however, what make students more aggrieved than anyone else.

The fact regarding the banking crises are there for all to see, the effects of the resultant recession are felt by us all.

I haven't picked up my pitch fork and marched on parliament.

The financial meltdown happened over two years ago. The financial markets were allowed to run riot on Browns watch.

Don't forget Brown had "eliminated" bust, from the Boom and Bust days of the Major government.

Had the Brown government managed the economy better whilst we're riding the crest of the wave, our deficit would have been much lower, and we'd have come out of this recession much sooner and these rise in fees may not have been necessary.

However, the coalition have to play the hand they've been dealt.

As I have posted earlier, the 9,000 figure is not a flat figure across the board, and many students from poor backgrounds will get the first 1 to 2 years free.

Nothing can be said to defend the actions of the rioting students.

One could ask them to do some real research into why the country is in its current state, and although the financial meltdown was the major catalyst, they would be suprised at:

A) How it was allowed to happen
B) Government spending before and during

Don't be emotive, as you know no one is directing this at "all" students.

But as you and I both know (being once a student, and I'm assuming you were one too), that there are militant groups out there that love a good ruck and they whip up others around them.

What they did is indefensible, no matter what.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Cheers Pierre, This is indeed the crux of the current malaise.

We are where we are.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Wasn't it Labour who kept going on about that it was almost a right(as opposed to an aspiration) to own a house regardless of income, in order to get on the 'property ladder'. They even introduced schemes which were meant to enable those with lower incomes to do so. There were news reports etc with people who were on low incomes complaining about missing the opportunity. The banks just fulfilled that demand believing that they were insured in a way, by rising house prices.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I've a suspicion that much of that attitude came from Margaret Thatcher's government and the sale of Council houses.

The Labour contribution was more the raiding of pensions leading to people using property as an investment and stretching themselves perilously thin to get as many properties as possible.

Buy to let increased massively under Labour, pumping housing demand up which in turn had the effect of pumping house prices up.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The 'Right to Buy' scheme was a method of giving the current tenants retrospective credit for rent paid in the way of a discount. They still had to be able to afford the mortgage on the discounted price on the same basis as everybody else. Home ownership was still seen as an aspiration(ie something that had to be aimed for and earned) and not an automatic right. They were bought to live in, not to sell for profit.

I remember living on a large council estate when it was first brought in. The first thing people changed was the estates standard front door to one of their own choice.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

This is a nice story.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

'Story' being the operative word.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Now that is an excellent demonstration of the art of story telling.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's how the Left operates - telling and re-telling of stories that become unchallengeable myth. That's why childish phrases like 'Thatcher the Milk Snatcher' remain fashionable among true Lefties. It has no context and only a passing acquaintance with the truth, but it fits their beloved heroes and villains narrative quite nicely.