Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

So why do you keep coming back to this thread..it had almost died but you resurrected it?:erm:

Plus if you have no particular beef with Muslims why do you start so many threads about them? :confused:

Re: Ban the burka ?
 

The answer that you gave to my question. :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

the problem i think GarL is that after reading every post in the thread again ,you are correct that you did say you only wanted them banned in security sensitive areas ,as i did myself ...but given that most anti muslim threads are started by you and couple that with some of your ..lets say cryptic answers to questions then a lot of people are given the impression by you ,(deliberate or not)that you do have issues with muslims which will inevitably lead people to target you

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

yeah i thought this thread had gone to thread heaven aswell

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I've just read my post to find out why I added to it.

It's in the news a lot and there's a war on. enough about me. I was going to start a thread about mice covered in vaseline in a bit :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That is a very good post :clap:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Does that also include a piece of plastic pipe that is well greased as well.;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Are they Muslim mice ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

'Anti muslim threads'
bad things about some muslims.
is there any good things to start a thread about to do with muslims so it's not automatically an anti muslim thread?

serious question by the way :)

we can throw things at the TV shouting stop it with the anti muslim stuff. but they're events that are happening. they're not made up.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Thing is if someone were to do a search on all threads containing stories painting Muslims in a negative light started by yourself, it would give the impression you have it in for them. Or at least, being ambiguous about your viewpoint on it until someone asks you directly what you think of it or challenges something you say and then it becomes all "I didn't say that!". Well no, but you didn't not say it either, you know?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

no they're not made up just exagerated and written in a biased way so as to mislead the public by certain newspapers

just remembered heres a positive muslim thread i started a few weeks back http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...ism-fatwa.html

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Did you find it by looking for good things about muslims on Google, or was it reported in the media like on Sky news?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

widely reported on most major news channels ,i gave the sky link in post 3 of the thread

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No, unlucky atheist ones :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I didn't realise we were at war with Muslimia.... Or are you stating that because we are keeping the peace in two countries (Iraq and Afghanistan, and a majority of the people who live there are Muslim, even though they are different branches like Shia and Sunnis), we are at war with Muslims?

That's like saying during the Troubles, we were at war with the Christians - equally misinformed and invalid.:rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Blimey foreverwar don't confuse him even more, if he honestly believes half the krud he posts about Muslims taking over the world imagine where we will end up concerning Loyalists and Republicans?
Exploding Guinness, leprechaun suicide bombers and Riverdance shock troops all overseen by their master Ming the Merciless on Neptune.
Paisley would be no more than a material and Sinn Fein would be code for turn on the death-ray!!!:D

By the way Gary you evaded your age earlier, come on, what is it mine and others is on display.
You never know, if its what I suspect you'll get cut an awful lot of slack....have you left school yet?:)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think that multi-culturalism should be done with the consent of the people. No nation is under any obligation to have thier land turned into a microcosm of the world.

I think that Racism is a symptom (one of many) of resentment and anger at a rapid change that is perceived as a risk.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I'll also make a suggestion.Anyone who cannot stand another poster has a very good recourse in the ignore function.

Which can be found in the user CP panel over on the left under settings and options where it says edit ignore list.You just click on it and add the name of the one you wish to ignore.Then you never have to read another post from them.(unless some helpful soul quotes them) and even then you just can slide over those.

So why not try it for at least a short while.

Before I became a Mod I had up to 10 people on ignore..it led to a very peaceful life.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

i would agree to a certain extent with that assessment .I think that (in this country)the change to a multi cultural nation has been rapid especialy over the last 20 yrs and not enough thought gone into how we will support them .This imo leads to a racist undertone because people believe it is being forced upon them ,which in a way it is .

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

This is becoming a country where, when we walk down the street we are scared to stare, talk or even mention about different faiths etc, and now we have a long discussion on the burka.

Quite simply we are in a 'hole' where we have to keep our mouths shut and shouldn't say anything, otherwise people get offended by anything, IF a motorcyclist goes into an office or shop, they are told either take it off, or you cannot come in, due to SECRUITY, this should apply to ANYONE who covers there face or head, irrespective of who they are.

I get really fed up to the back teeth, when people say, its our faith, absolute tosh, if MY secruity is at risk, then so be it. Many faiths say that there is NOTHING, in writing, in any bible, that wearing a burka is part of there rule that they MUST wear it, so why wear it.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Arthur, except for your first sentence, I agree with your sentiments, if not your wording.

(try not to faint, there's a good chap :D)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The ignore feature is all well and good, but I personally don't see the point in blanking other's viewpoint no matter how strange they are. The whole point in a discussion is to see/hear how other people's ideals and view differs, isn't that the whole point of a discussion forum.

The thing about forums, the more obscure or controversial the threads / posts are the more interesting and more views the forum / thread gets.

If you decide you only want to hear views that suit, it'll soon get a bit boring won't it.

Only my own opinion anyway.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I have just heard on Sky News, that the French PM has said that The Burka, WILL be banned in France, Are you listening GB.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Ban the Beret next you watch :mad: this is the thin end of the wedge , next thing they will ban me :D i'm overdue

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Wishful thinking, Arthur ;) - he has ordered a debate on a potential law about this - BBC

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

totally agree ,never used the ignore button ,don't ever intend to ,

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Well I'm aiming my suggestion at those dummy spitter's that cannot read some CF members posts without seeing red and throwing all their toys out of the pram.

It is made with the suggestion of avoiding being infracted...It's no skin off my nose if some of our numbers get culled because they won't use the function. :shrug:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I agree entirely on this point. I am a motorcyclist and I have to take of my helmet at petrol stations, banks and supermarkets etc.

On this point I say if they want to were a burka or full veil etc, then I think they should be entitled to wear one, as long as they respect the same rules that I have to when entering a Shop, petrol, station, bank, airport etc where they should take it off.

In normal situations such as walking down the road etc, people should be allowed to wear what they want. I have no objection to people being covered head to toe, if that is what they want to do. We should not ban the veil outright - that would be wrong.

But those that wish to dress this way, MUST, be prepared to remove it as per the situation examples above.

In addtion, they must also be prepared to expect to be asked to remove the veil in certain one to one situations, such as:

Doctor Surgeries, meeting with solicitors, making benefit claims, etc. Areas were identity must be proven etc. Remove or not be seen/ dealt with.

As long as they appreciate the reasons they need to do this, and comply, then otherwise I have no problem with them.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That's what it's all about. you have someone who wants to hide their face at all places where hiding your face is not allowed. to say that they are entitled to do it because of who they are or because that person wants to hide their face, is not good enough anymore.

rules are rules and they apply to all. you are not exempt because you're a paticular person.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

One thing to note is that states like Saudi Arabia would for instance prohibit me from wearing certain items and even prevent me from driving.. And that's laws within a muslim country.. It's not religion but instead peoples interpretation of religion that they've enacted into laws.. Islamic persons should understand that we have laws here and as Gary says (can't believe I'm agreeing with him) they apply to everyone..

Talking about these laws I see that if the Belgiums can keep their coallition together then they might be the first country to introduce the ban.. (no idea as to what extent)

I'm not for a total ban but a law should at least be passed that proof of identity must be verified (especially in this day and age of biometrics) by all features (height, fingerprints, eye color and facial features..

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

There are cases where some women have never worn any form of dress/burkha whilst here, but then started wearing it later. if it was that strict they would have been wearing it before now.

as you say we are expected to respect their laws and even customs. so if you come here then you should think about our laws.
they didn't have to at the time of entry because we allowed it. but if it does become a requirement in time. then they will have to consider whether they want to enter or not.

we could have all seperate incidents where a 'foreigner' will not have to follow our laws because of where they originally came from. which means that all laws in this country only apply depending on who you are or where your second home is.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

That is irrelevant to this topic, peoples choices change and with religion so does their level of commitment..

You viewpoint is very immigrant/visitor orientated for some weird reason. Remember that there's lots of people born in the UK that a law of this type would impact on.

Sorry but now you're way off track.. Laws in other countries are simply that.. "a law in other country" There's never been any sign that visitors to the UK have legally argued that it's law in their contry and use it as a defence.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Of course it's relevant.

Some that have only just started wearing the burqa.

I never said that. you're getting ahead of yourself.

sunshine beckons me.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

How long a person has been wearing a burkha isn't relevant at all or are you now saying that people have to rigidly stick to the religion and customs to where they were born?? Sorry but you can't argue both sides

As for a law in another country your words were
Where you specified that a foreigner will not have to follow our laws because of where they came from.. So are you saying that foriegners could be totally lawless? If not then they have to be following some form of law.. Do they get to pick and choose??

As I said and will say it again your arguments in this burkha ban are extremely aimed at migrants/visitors to such an extent that people can only form one opinion about your viewpoints. If that opinion is wrong then please consider the full extent of the ban and not just it's implications on non-UK born people :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Indeed, as long as European women wore clothes which covered their shoulders, didn't show cleavage and wore at least proper shorts, they were left alone.
Mum and her friends used to wear t-shirts and shorts most of the time.
Saudi women didn't have to wear veils, but most did partly because it was a traditional cultural attire and partly because it kept the dust out of their faces.
Further out in the desert, some matriachs would wear metal veils, ornately decorated and passed down through the generations.
As for driving, considering dad's car was driven over by a large dumper truck one xmas morning, women not being able to drive isn't that bad a thing, for their own sake! :D
This is a place with 12" pavements to protect pedestrians after all :shocked:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Secriuty is paramount, no matter where you are, anything that covers your face, IS a risk, and we as a country should protect the public's interest, and therefore WE should ban anything that is a risk.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Let's all get nekkid, then................:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

If you had seen me you would not be saying that :LOL:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

How do you I haven't, with my remote web-cam management software?;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I pretty much agree , apart from the staring. You see, Staring is not nice. If someone stares at you for any reason, you don't know what they are thinking. Are they thinking that you look nice? Are they thinking "Christ, that person is hideous"? Are they thinking that you are their next target? Are they thinking "People like him/her should be locked up and never allowed out"?. They probably aren't thinking any of those things about you (assuming they are thinking about you at all), but you don't know that.

I was told this by a relative who used to be wheelchair bound. They said that if anyone was curious about their condition, it is better to ask, not stare.
True.

I have to admit, I have not read the Koran. I was told by a muslim friend (who doesn't wear any form of headgear or a burkha unless she wants to) that the faith does not require anything like that. Individual sects within the faith do teach that it is required though.

Personally, I don't actually think a burqa has any point in this country. I read somewhere that the original point was to protect the wearer against sand. We don't have any deserts in this country..

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

My Grand Daughter was stared at all the time in Abu Dhabi, I think that it must have been the long blond Hair rather than what my Daughter was wearing. ( 3/4 length cut off shorts and a t-shirt).:)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Maybe most people neither notice or care Arthur.

I live in a city that has a high multicultural make-up. If I walk through the city centre I see burkhas, veils and even the full-body 'ninja' style clothing. As a Christian I can honestly say it doesn't bother me in the slightest, and this is from someone who spent more than 30 years in a small Welsh coastal village where I'd estimate more than 95% of the inhabitants were white.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Should your religion have any bearing on your opinion? or did you just mention it in passing?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Personally I don't come at the burkha issue from a secruty view-point, I'm of the opinion that in the cases of airports fully veiled women are already checked by female staff.
My problem with these dreadful things are the totally de-humanizing effect that it projects, these sacks originated from the misogynist menfolk of Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, according to Muslim friends of mine there is absolutely no edicts in the Koran to dress in such an extreme way, nothing at all about covering the face.
Nobody can tell me that there are not women in Britain being forced to wear this atrocity by their insecure husbands and/or fathers or brothers, what about these women? are they to be ignored because society as a whole is to afraid to confront these very insecure men?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Nuns don't cover their faces. That's the difficult part not knowing who exactly is beneath the veil.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

As I have stated previously for reasons of security in places such as banks, petrol statins, post offices, ferry terminals and airports or any other place where the face must be seen then they full face veil should be banned or the person refused service.

The can be no compromise where security is involved.

If anyone is unhappy with these restrictions they can always emigrate to a country that will allow full face veils at all times, but of course they would still have to show their face at the airport when they leave.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

How old was she?

The cover-up rules only counts from puberty but yes you are right in that blond hair does attract attention (though not the most attention, red hair is seen as a gift from allah)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I don't understand that. don't they all have black hair?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Genetics isn't that simple......

(btw - "they"???)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Allahs people.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You know, Muslimistanis. From Muslimistan.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Just like God's people are all fair-skinned with brown hair?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Were they on Top of the Pops?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

With it's capital, Muslimisbad.......

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Thanks Chris. I think he's just acting dumb again :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

At least you don't have to act...;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You're thinking of Pans people.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------

No. it's a perfectly reasonable statement I made.
God's people are not all fair skinned with brown hair. there's red/white/black and various other colours.

I'm assuming by 'God' you mean your God.

Allah is the Islam God. all Islam people have black hair.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

A couple of small points Gary.

1. 'Allah' is simply 'God' in Arabic. Palestinian Christians can pray to 'Allah' if their native language is Arabic.
2. This Muslim doesn't have black hair:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kQqdAV5vs60/0.jpg

Apart from that, you had it pretty much on the button. :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

But when you look at it where Allah is the true God. then there are more than one. and when you refer to Allah then you are most probably Arabian.
so it is quite strange for red hair to be a gift from Allah.

Another way to look at it is would a fanatical 'Islamist' who believes that a non believer should be killed. would he not kill the one with red hair because he or she is seen as Allah's gift?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Actually there's more muslims in eastern Asia than there is in the middle east.. So in your thinking Allah shouldn't even have brown skin..

As for red hair how little you know.. Can I suggest that you google red hair and allah someday

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Red is the preferred dyeing colour in Islam. It is reported that the Prophet Muhammad used to dye his hair red using Henna.

So can you clarify what you meant by "red hair is seen as a gift from allah"?
is it not people born with red hair?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Actually no, Muhammad's reported to have had red hair and that it was a gift from the gods, You seem to have coddled together a lot of links and put 1+1 together and got 3.14159265 (as usual) :rolleyes:

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Kymmy it would help if you were to offer links. debating with you would be so much more normal then. :rolleyes: :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I quite fancy a pie specially if its apple or steak but not the 2 mixed mmmm :D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

As a muslim I didn't even know that? I'm not too sure on the accuracy of what you are saying.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I'm not saying that he did or didn't dye it, what I'm saying is that to come out with a statement that he dyed his hair with Henna and then to provide links to henna, hair dying and a seperate wiki link about him that doesn't indicate that he did use henna doesn't prove the statement. ;)

Red hair isn't unknown in the middle east region mainly due to arabic trade which extended throughout the med and also down the east coast of africa and as such there are ethnic mixtures.

But and most importantly I'm wondering what this has to do with Burkha's or has Gary been reading to much into the eternal fight between redhair, mohammed and the celebraties as detailed in the latest two words of fact known as southpark after my single light hearted comment about red hair being seen as a gift from god??? :D:D:D

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

LOL you started with the facts about red hair being a gift from Allah. and the link to Henna was a plant not the company :D

I don't watch Southpark.
so red hair isn't a gift from Allah then? :rolleyes: :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No idea, I will let you know though if Allah pops up one day and tells me if the "seems" comment was correct or not (though might not be able to provide a link though I might draw a cartoon based on it)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Oh. you was joking. I've been running around trying to find it all on Google for nothing then :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

This thread is pretty pointless now tho.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

It was ok till we got the bit about red hair :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

No, wasn't joking, just making a comment (a bit like the bible and Quran) based on stories/rumours from long dead third parties about what someone between 1600 to 2000 years ago actually looked like..

Best interpretaion though on muhammeds appearance is http://www.inthenameofallah.org/Muha...ppearance.html but again you are getting a translation from an interpretation taken from perhaps a dozen other interpretations ;)

Now boys and girls, back on the Burkha topic ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Blonde hair is considered lucky.
My sister and I often had people place their hand on our heads and compliment our parents.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Discussed that with my gf yesterday evening.
If the slits were small enough to restrict vision, and one would expect the police to test this rather than just fining her on an opinion (similarly our cops test the darkness of tinted windows rather than just working on an opinion that they are too dark), then a fine of £18 is suitable imho.
Of course if it was more like the image provided by the heliograph to remind it's readers what a burkha can look like, then that's another matter.
Of course there is no racism in France, they know this because they've never found any, and as they've never found any, looking for racism would be a waste of time and resources. Bit like BSE ;)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think the police officer was totally correct, anything covering the head with only a slit for the eyes is bound to impede somebodies driving ability.
Irrespective of the restrictive vision, it can't be good to also have the ears covered as well, maybe with just the ears covered and the eyes totally unrestricted it may well compensate but for anybody to claim that their driving ability isn't restricted by wrapping cloth around their head with a only slit for vision is insane...or course it is.
I don't know what the law is in Britain concerning this, hopefully common sense prevails and its illegal, if this women wants to make a statement by wearing this mark of separation thats her choice, but if she wants to drive then dress sensibly, surely its simple common sense?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I always wondered why this has never happened here. you can't have any peripheral vision when wearing something like that.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s1i73758

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Dear oh dear.

Uh-hu.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Indeed. I don't think the police should take action based on opinion. Not sure if they can. Opinion is too open to variation. One officer may consider a slit too small that another thinks is fine.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The full face veil should be banned as apart from anything else it is anti social.
Lets not forget however that many Muslim women is Iraq are endangering their lives for their freedom from the Taliban. It is true that nowhere in the Koran does it stipulate that the bhurka should be worn. As for the Paradise with the many virgins waiting for suicide bombers speaks volumes of the Talaban attitude to women. The laws of this country should not be bent for any section. Many countries are not so tolerant.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

So in other words, ban it because you don't like it? Because some of your culture considers it anti-social?

That's right. So let's drag ourselves down to their level hey?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Bumhole, thanks for adding that bit after I'd posted.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Things that are anti-social that aren't banned -
People playing music so loud you can hear it, even though they are wearing headphones
People getting totally ratted on a night out, then vomming everywhere and screaming and shouting
Wearing trousers so low we can see bum-cracks (shudder....)
Taking/making a mobile phone call whilst paying in a shop
People who don't shower/bathe properly before they catch public transport
etc etc

Shall we ban them?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

LOL sorry. I thought it was obvious anyway :)

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Absolute rubbish Gary, even for you. There is room in Britain for all kinds of cultures.

In Port Talbot there's a group of French ex-pats who rarely mix with anyone else but they get together on sunday mornings in the summer to play Pétanque, they drink their French wine. Are they bothering anyone else with what they do? No. A woman wearing a burkha is not trying to get others to fall in line with anyone else. They're just using following their culture in the UK just like people from other countries and faiths do. You're showing yourself to be truly intolerant but I'm guessing you'll just say you didn't actually agree with that post, you just copied from another site.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Yes. I copied it from another site. that's why it's in quoted form.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Gary, what in your opinion is "modern western culture"?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Thought so. Utter rubbish.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Dam right we should

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

The Taliban are in Iraq???

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

[QUOTE=foreverwar;35007910]Things that are anti-social that aren't banned -
Many things are anti social but my definition at that point was merely one of interaction on social occasions even standing next to a stranger in a checkout queue and politely chatting. I live in an Asian area with many temples and mosques and continually chat and joke with women in burkhas but the full veil hides facial expressions. If it was essential I could understand but the purpose seems to be to stop the gaze of other males.
No I would not like to be part of a society that chops off the hands of thieves or stones adulterers. I do consider myself lucky to be born in this country. Maybe our our tolerance is just being tested.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 ----------

The Taliban home may be in Iraq but their beliefs stretch far and wide.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think you'll find that the Taliban home isn't in Iraq...

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I don't know. tell me what it's supposed to be and I'll give you my opinion of that?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

You aren't from the States are you? That was one they probably tried for a while along with Al Qaeda and Saddam.

Just FYI the Taliban's home is the other one, Afghanistan. They are pretty much in Northern Afghanistan and Southern Pakistan.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

So again, you want something banned on the grounds of it being anti-social in your definition?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I think the thinking may be that it's anti-social for someone to hide and cover their faces in this country.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

I still don't see the rationale behind banning something due to an opinion or perception.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Meta-thinking - excellent.

Is that your thinking?

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Exactly as I and others expected. Your suppositions are based on something that you, yourself, are incapable of forming an opinion on.

At least you have the decency to admit it.

Re: Ban the burkha ?
 

Smoking is thought to be anti-social by opinion and perception and that was banned.

what if someone were to always turn their back to you when you were talking to them. that would be anti-social?

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

What makes you think I should have an answer for you, and that the answer not forthcoming proves a point in your favour?