Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

They are being prosecuted under the Public Order Act. This act is designed to prevent anti-social behaviour. So, it seems that they may have been behaving like yobs and harassing this woman.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The trouble is that we cannot know entirely what exactly what happened because we are only getting one side of the case and only a limited one at that.All this fierce speculation and anger over perceived unfair advantages of one religious community over another is immaterial UNTIL we get to the court case in December and we get the evidence from both sides.

Why not kick back and relax until then...all of us.;)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I dunno but maybe having possibly the most important person in their lives referred to as a "Minor Prophet" they felt the need to express their perception of the woman's faith.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

If that's the case then someone needs thicker skin. For the last 6 years I've had abuse worse than that about my faith and Jesus, in real life and on Cable Forum.

However until it gets to court we don't yet know the difference between what was said and what the Mail would have us think.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I doubt very much we will much more about this case, to be honest. By December there will be other news to cover and this will have been forgotten and it won't suit the right-wing press, or the "Christian" Institute, to report that the couple harassed and harangued this woman. Which is a shame, because the general public will now be left with a distorted view of the law and legal proceedings. Whenever someone finds something critical to say about a religion, we all be told that the PC brigade will go to police and have them arrested, because we can't say Jesus wore sandals, or Mohammed's beard looked a bit funny. This incident will be used to ridicule any thoughts of open and frank discussion.

So the Christian (a term I use very loosely) Institute will have won their immoral high ground and the BNP will cite this case every time they are shouted down because of their vile and abhorrent rhetoric.

I wonder if this couple will object about their image being used to promote the BNP at election time.

---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

But it doesn't say to me that they were prepared to engage in a rational and balanced discussion with the woman. I would say that having one of the most important person in her life being referred to as a warlord would cause just as much upset. Oddly enough, we don't see many Christians complaining about Judaism seeing Jesus as nothing more than a common a criminal, do we?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Oh something tell me in my water that we WILL be hearing more about this case.I can almost guarantee that.;)

However if the court case ends up being heard around the time of a General Election maybe not..:D

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

re "minor prophet" - Jesus is regarded (ttbomk) one of the five "leaders of the prophets" in the Islamic faith.

1. Noah
2. Abraham
3. Moses
4. Jesus
5. Muhammad

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

So, hardly a minor prophet then. I wonder if they understood what she was telling them, or were they so blindly ignorant of the Islamic faith, they heard what they wanted to hear.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Noah is not such a shining example after the flood abaited he got drunk and danced naked and Moses was not allowed into the holy land because he took credit for the parting of the red sea iirc

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

flood :rofl:

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I take offence of you mocking me I will see you in court lollol

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Jesus is indeed an important prophet in the Muslim faith. We dont believe he was the Son of God but we do hold him in very high regard.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

It's quite possible, but why they would "want to hear" something that might upset them is a mystery to me.

Conversely as a new convert to Islam, the woman may have misunderstood what she had been taught/read and made an incorrect statement - equally possible don't you think?

As Russ said, they needed thicker skins and so does she. :)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

As far as selective hearing is concerned, it is probable that they had a misconception of an Islamic perspective, on its views on the life of Jesus. So, (only a bit of fun you understand :)) it is entirely possible that she said something like, "Jesus is considered to be one of the Ulul Azmi (the five leaders) and they took it as she meant he was insignificant. But then it is equally conceivable that she did misinterpret her own understanding of the Islamic view on Jesus. Still, that is no excuse then to insult her and tell her that she is under some form bondage, just because she chooses to wear a hijab (which they called a burkha, apparently).

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The fact they were prosecuted under the said act you quote does not necessarily mean the couple were behaving " Like Yobs "
Why can you not accept this ?
Do you know the reason the act was brought out? the purpose of its existence?
Imo it's a sledge hammer to crack a nut.
Bang the three of their heads together.
But as has been said, all will no doubt come to light in court.
But from your comments you appear to be siding one way, I would say until it gets to court have an open mind.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act, was introduced (amongst other reasons) to protect people from being harassed, alarmed or distressed by others. I think this falls into that category

I think the involvement of the "Christian" Institute has led me that way. Nothing they touch can be of any good or benefit to anyone, who hods the principals of freedom, democarcy and justice as a basis of moral concience.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The Public Order Act 1986 is designed to help police arrest those inciting disorder on the streets, through violence or
abusive behaviour. 'It should never be used where there has been a personal conversation or debate with views firmly
expressed,' said Neil Addison, a leading criminal barrister and expert in religious law.

'If someone is in a discussion and they don't like what they are hearing, they can walk away.'

If the christian faith does not hold the principles of freedom, democracy and justice as a basis of moral conscience who does?
Not any good looking into Islam either, because if we are unbelievers we should be killed according to them.
Sledgehammer/Nut.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I found it amusing that you used a quote to support your proposition from someone who had campaigned vociferously against the law outlawing incitement to religious hatred - who would have thought he didn't think this prosecution was a bad idea. ;)

btw, Christian faith also holds the ideals of "love thy neighbour", be respectful of others, and treat others as you would like to be treated - being harangued over the breakfast table by your host seems not to fulfill any of those (imho).

Re Islam and killing unbelievers - funnily enough, there are passages in the Bible (Deuteronomy) saying the same thing; strange you didn't point that out.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/10/14.gif

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Sorry, but harassing, alarming and distressing behaviour comes in many different forms: The stalker, following a vulnerable teenage girl; the ex-wife sending abusive text messages; the yobs down the street vandalising bus stops; the playground gang, bullying the schoolboy on social networking sites; neighbours, playing loud music until three o'clock in the morning; the shop customer, being abused in the store by the staff; the elderly driver, intimidated by the thug ion a van because he wasn't not driving fast enough, the list goes on and on. All these examples are covered by the Public Order Act, which used to prosecute them every single day. This is not a new phenomenon, the authorities use the act to prevent this behaviour, from anyone they receive a complaint about. I cannot see any difference in it being used in these circumstances.


But where do we draw the line? One man's debate is another's harassment. Myself and my family have suffered abuse in the past and there have been many occasions where I do just walk away, but there have been times when it goes beyond what is reasonable and I have had to take a stand. For example, Flyboy10 is disabled, he suffers with an ASD, amongst other things and has been ridiculed and abused because of it. Now, sometimes it is down to ignorance of the condition, but sometimes it is the result of downright bigotry, prejudice and the desire to cause distress and alarm. Should I let it go, or should I take action, such as making sure that the little gits don't get away with it again? Do we continue to allow the thuggish elements of our society to slowly whittle away what little dignity we have left. To constantly reduce our right to a peaceful existence, the right to live a life free of harassment and prejudice, all in the name of that so-called, misconceived phallacy that is "freedom of speech?"


One would hope, but then I do not believe this is the aims and objectives of the "Christian" Institute.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The bible contains a book entirely dealing with the killing of non-christians.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

As the Christian Institute keeps being mentioned, I thought it may be useful for posters to have more info on them.

Who we are
Their views

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Surely even that should give you some insight and indication of the perspective of their goals, objectives and so-called "Christian" values.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Yes it shows they hold the Bible in high regard and there's nothing wrong with that and neither should they be criticised for it.

However I feel it's important to hold a "live and let live" attitude along with a "let he without sin" mentality.

Did the couple in question do that? We don't know. We'll find out when it gets to court.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Hmm, let's explore those "beliefs" for a bit:

What we believe-Christian beliefs on transsexualism

What we believe-Parents have a God-given authority over their children

What we believe-Marriage is sacred

Apologetics-Civil Partnerships



Apologetics-Homosexuals in the Armed Forces

Christian Freedoms and Heritage-Incitement to Religious Hatred

Now, where have we heard these excuses before?


Now, bearing in mind that these have been written, in far more moderate language than is really believed, I think we can surmise that the "Christian" Institute does not hold the Christian values one would expect, i.e., tolerance, forgiveness and understanding.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

As some people like to quote the bible, May I just point out that the bible is full of contradictions and discrepancies.

But how can the word of god be incorrect?

http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ml#good_to_all

--------------------------------------------------------
War or Peace?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
--------------------------------------------------------
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
--------------------------------------------------------
Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
--------------------------------------------------------
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

My point about the Bible was not to introduce religion-bashing and contradictions, but to point out that whilst the Koran has some things that can be taken negatively, so has the Bible, in order to rebut the point

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Should the thread title be corrected?
I'm pretty certain christian beliefs don't include Mohammed being a warlord, middle eastern dress being a form of bondage, or insulting others of differing faiths to an extent that the CPS feel the need to prosecute.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

by corrected do you mean altered to fit your point of view ?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Sorry? Are you saying that christian beliefs include Mohammed being a warlord, middle eastern dress being a form of bondage, or insulting others of differing faiths to an extent that the CPS feel the need to prosecute?
Or are you objecting to an incorrect thread title being changed because it won't make Muslims look bad?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

no
i am asking if you want the title altered to fit your point of view ,i hope that clears things up for you, if not I'll try to simplify the question so you can understand it .

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Well, I've not made any suggestions as to what it should be, only that it doesn't appear to be accurate, last time I checked what they were arrested for at least.
What do you think? Is the title accurate in your opinion?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

It is understood that they suggested that Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a warlord and that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage. [this was deemed as an offense]
that allegedly is what they as Christians believe [do i think all Christians have the same belief] no i don't, but as an atheist i also have issues with the dress code for Muslim women ,i think its a form of oppression . so to round up. these particular Christians are defending there belief that mohammad was a war lord,and that Muslim dress is a form of bondage [in there opinion] so given this information i see no need to alter the thread title.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Christian's arrested for defending their beliefs

Some Christian's were arrested for defending their beliefs.

2 Christian's were taken to the Police station and charged for what they believed.

A man and a woman who were Christian's were taken to the Police station and arrested for something they personally believed in. no other Christian's were involved, and any resemblance to other Christian's is purely coincidental.


I've done all my tests, and the thread title is accurate. :)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Although, the story doesn't actually mention the muslim woman attacking the Christian beliefs. In fact it doesn't mention what she did, apart from to say she made a complaint. Therefore, we do not know that the Christian faith actually was under attack. If it wasn't, then it didn't need defending and it could be said they were attacking Islam..

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Which of course wouldn't sell as many copies of the Mail.
"Muslim complains and defends her belief" isn't as interesting a headline, is it?
Making out that the couple were arrested for defending their christian beliefs, when the articles suggests that they were arrested for insulting a muslim woman over her beliefs, panders to some people's anti-muslim/asian feelings.
You'll notice that it took the woman to make a statement before it was clear she was white and British.
However if the CF Team are stating that what they were actually arrested for is indeed a christian belief, then who am I to argue ;)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I am sure that the quote I used would be said by any lawyer regardless of their beliefs, do you not accept that ?
The couple, just like anyone, can use whoever they wish to defend them in court, is that ok with you ?

" Hang on m'lud, the lawyer is clearly a christian representing a couple of christians, that cannot be right ? "

LMAO.

Yes there have been murders on both sides of the different faiths, but I would place my wages on there being more butchery being committed by the Islam faith.

As recent as 2007 Sheik Ahmad Bahr, acting speaker of the palestinian Legislative Council declared in a sermon at a Sudan Mosque that America and Israel will be annihilated and called upon Allah to kill Jews and Americans " to the very last one "

Sounds just like the type of guy I would enjoy a pint with :erm:

But to read some on here, you would think there is only one side to the argument.

This so called offended woman engaged herself in a discussion about religion, as I have said before, if she cannot stand the heat she should stay out the kitchen.

Interesting to note that she has been spouting off to the press while the arrested couple have been told they can say nothing until the case.

But to some on here it is ok, because it gives them the one sided story they want to believe, that there was only one guilty party in all this episode.

From what we have read, mohammed was accused of being a warlord, this is fact, and if somebody feels that the muslim dress is oppressive so what if someone does not like what you wear ?

Sledgehammer/Nut

---------- Post added at 04:44 ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 ----------


You like everyone will have to wait and see, but it seems some on here already know the guilty party.
My knowledge in the case is not as good sorry, all I do know is that there are two sides to any argument, and that it's normally the " British " way to listen to two sides of the said argument.
Correct ?;)

---------- Post added at 04:51 ---------- Previous post was at 04:44 ----------


Xaccers, what title would suit you?

Perhaps, " Couple arrested for saying Mohammed was a Warlord " ?

Or " Holy Burkha " !

What do you reckon ? ;)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The thread title is only true if their beliefs were attacked - do we have evidence to support that proposition?

How about "Hoteliers seem to have p'd off a paying customer"?

btw, you are right that some people seem to have made up their minds about who is the guilty party.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

[QUOTE=foreverwar;34882326]The thread title is only true if their beliefs were attacked - do we have evidence to support that proposition?

How about "Hoteliers seem to have p'd off a paying customer"?

.................................................. .................................................. .....................


< allegedly >

until proven or disproven in a court of law ;)



on a side note - perhaps those of you who are unhappy about thread titles should start some of your own instead of trying to find fault in other peoples ..

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

My report of the "minor prophet" comment was taken from HERE

Sorry should have posted the linky at the time. :)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Correct, there are two sides to every argument. However, that article only presents one, and implies the couple are being persecuted by the Muslim woman who, the article admits seemingly grudgingly, is White and English.

Still it is about as good as I have come to expect from the Fail..

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

We do not know exactly what was said, all we know about the warlord and islamic dress is what the couple and their support team have said in the papers, you know, which you've claimed they've been told they can't tell us :rolleyes:

The aggrieved woman, from what I have seen has not discussed matters relating to the case (ie what was said to offend her), but has been forced to go to the media to show she is a white Brit due to recieving death threats and other awful comments.



Neither are accurate given the information we've been shown by the media.
Papasmurf, perhaps if you put a bit more thought into your thread title accuracy in future?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

:rofl:

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Are you laughing at Xaccers request for you to put a little thought into your thread titles?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

affirmative guv

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I might have missed something but all i saw was the couple saying there was a debate is there anything that says the woman in question was having a debate or was willingly taking part in such a debate rather then just on the end of some ignorant abuse ??. Why do i get the feeling if this was reversed ie a muslim couple attacking a single hospital patient christian woman we would be seeing different responses from some posters.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Says a lot about you..

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

do tell

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Thats off topic. However, unless some evidence appears that the thread title is correct, I may well change it.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

348 posts in and you want to change it ?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Produce some evidence it is correct and I won't..

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

im not getting into childish squabble about thread titles .

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Fair enough. I also realise that you have essentially just used the Headline the Fail printed.

I would be interested to hear exactly what was said (although I realise that we probably never will, certainly not from the Mail who seem to have a definite agenda here).

It's worth noting that the headline is not really backed up by the story, which only presents one side.

I wonder how the case would have progressed had the Christian Institute not got involved. CI seem to be Christian Fundamentalists, and, TBH, I suspect are using this case to push their own agenda. Which means, to my mind, whoever wins most from this case, it certainly won't be either the couple or the muslim woman.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Why should he/she? if there were any issues something should have been said at the time he/she put the post up, dont try dumming down debate.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I think we can surmise that you understand a lot less about Christianity than you think you do.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Err...no I think your summation is incorrect. I know a great deal about "Christianity." Mrs Flyboy is a lay preacher. I have spent many hours of healthy debate with her and her colleagues, on the subject.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Great, but that doesn't mean you understand the subject. If you'd been listening to Mrs Flyboy during all those hours of debate, you wouldn't still be setting up tolerance, forgiveness and understanding as absolute virtues in the absence of righteousness and truth.

There are a lot of Christian values. If you're going to show any respect for them you'll try a little harder to understand how they all fit together - all of them - rather than simply shouting about the ones that happen to be convenient to your point.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

So, which of these "values" do you think are at stake here? Which of these values refer to Christians berating another person for the clothes they wear?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Out of interest: what denomination of Christianity do you subscribe to? The reason I ask is that it appears to me that different branches of Christianity have different interpretations and rankings of these virtues (or the Bible for that matter).

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Off topic - that can be discussed via PM.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

If you don't mind, I'll leave it up to your fellow mod to decide if he wants to answer that question in public or via PM...

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

My god .. Do the same 10 to 15 people argue on EVERY thread. Do you ever get tired? 10, 15, 20 thousand plus posts of the same thing day in, day out. Do you have time for anything else! I don't believe in God etc and I get bored after 2 posts let alone 1000 plus.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

You'd think he'd make an appearence and tell us all to stop fighting and arguing over him, but he never does.
I think he just likes the attention a little bit too much :)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

:D

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Figure of speech. god with a lower case g.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Hang on, you're the one who claimed that the couple weren't allowed to go to the press, even though they were the first to do so, and consiquently with healines of "Christians arrested for defending their beliefs" (when the evidence given by the couple and their supporting institute shows that wasn't the case) and the lack of intelligence of the great unwashed, has apparently resulted in several of them using the internet to express their anti-muslim/asian views. We've seen on here the usual unintelligent posts of "they should go back where they came from" even when it's known that the muslims they're talking about are British.
Why should anyone have to put up with such disgusting comments? Because they're muslim? Doesn't wash with me mate.


You'll noticed I used the word "future"

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

If it annoys you that much, why bother reading and replying to a thread you have no interest in?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Because it's not just on this thread, it's on EVERY thread. Especially it would seem threads that have even the slightest religious content. And if it doesn't have any religious content, it usually does after 10 posts and then everyone starts bickering, thinly veiled by liberal dashings of stupid smilies. :cleader:

I wonder how many posts on here are just pointless bickering about religion? 30% to 40%?

The hardcore group of 10 or so members who spend all day everyday arguing and trying to inflame the situation should be ashamed of themselves, and that includes the two moderators who should know better.

It really doesn't make it a happy place reading the same people day in day out, having a ding-dong.

This is the most volatile forum I've ever seen! I'd like to start a poll to gauge how many people like the fighting between members, and how many would like it clamped down on, but it would just turn into the usual bun fight.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

So, why do you give a damn? It's not doing you any harm, so why bother reading the thread in the first place, or are you just trolling for a re-action?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Return to the topic NOW.

As always, if you find a thread, post a problem REPORT it.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Xaccers, it was not the couple that went to the press, their spokesperson/representative gave the details of what had apparently happened, while the accuser claimed in the press that she had all but been called a terrorist.
Please get your facts right.
In your infinite wisdom, feel free to tell me why they were arrested?
Their arrest followed an alleged discussion about two religions, it seems that to me the one who spat her dummy out when she was faced with some unsavoury truth then decided " Hey! this is england, racist card ! "
They are british?
They are so proud of being British that they hide themselves away and follow a leader who was known for paedophilia?
If you feel happy supporting the rights of that type of religion be my guest.
Why should they have to put up with such disgusting comments?
Because Xaccers not everyone in this country is treated the same, that is why.
Yes its abhorent, but tell me who is to blame?
If I have a gang of yobs outside the door I call the police they are not quick to respond.
But mention that I stayed at a hotel and I was subject to a racist attack and the police are brushing the yobs aside to get to the hotel.
If she did not like what was being said she could have walked away, end of imo.
http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=15520

And just to add, if there was a problem with the heading of the post it should have been sorted earlier.
I mean, if you want me to start trawling the topics on this forum for headings that are " questionable given the so called facts " ?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

They were arrested and charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31 (1) (c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.
What exactly was said is unknown to us, the statement given on behalf of the couple (as I said, they've gone to the press) is that they called Mohammed a Warlord and referred to a form of islamic dress as a form of bondage. That could be as accurate as saying Hitler wasn't very fond of Jews.
I see you've resorted to the usual ignorant comment that Mohammed was a paedophile, applying todays values to another time.
You appear to be confused, firstly Islam is not a race, secondly, religions have no rights, people have rights, are you honestly saying that some people should have fewer rights than others because of their religious beliefs?


Oh and just to add, I don't remember seeing in the forum T&Cs a time limit for suggesting a topic title be modified, perhaps you could do me a favour and quote the part that does say that?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

some people certainly should not have more rights than others because of their religious beliefs. We certainly are biased in the favour of the minority in this country and this is what I think is wrong

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

No we are not. There is more weight balanced on the protection of the rights of the minority, that is why they are called the minority. It is because the minority's rights are more likely to be infringed, therefore it is necessary to afford them more protective resources. The majority's rights are already protected, by the majority. It is why we spend more resources on the protection of children, for example, because they are least likely to be able to protect themselves. But there is no more bias given to favour the rights of the minorities, over the majorities.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Is that so Flyboy?
So tell me, do you not think that problems can arise when one group is perceived, rightly or wrongly, to be favoured over another?
I will give you two scenarios, then you tell me whether you feel action should be taken in both cases, not just one.
Muslim protestors are exercising their freedom of speech by standing on a public highway holding blood thirsty placards calling for the death of our troops.
No muslims are arrested in the above.
Is that right?
Second scenario, three people are involved in a heated debate about religion in a hotel with its doors firmly shut.
The christian couple are arrested defending their faith.
Is that right? if so tell me the difference between the two scenarios, and why the latter requires more attention by our police?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Their opinion? Or their faith?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The act they were arrested under was brought in to deal with different circumstances, the police in this case have imo applied the wrong act.
What they " allegedly " said is fact.
Do you not get that?
My " ignorant " comment is fact too, he was known to have had sex with underage girls, how would you feel if it were your daughter?
I am not confused at all Xaccers, do grow up, it is apparent from the upcoming court case that some people do have less rights than others.
It is seen as fair play for muslims to say what they wish about the christian faith with no action taken, can you not see that either?
Feel free to explain why, given the circumstances, that the title should be changed?
Two sides to every argument Xaccers, which you and some on here seem to ignore conveniently.

---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 ----------


Both?
Freedom of speech?
Saaf, is it right that no action is taken over muslim protestors holding blood thirsty placards calling for the death of our troops?
IMO if two people are arrested over a heated debate, regardless what it is about, does it not stink ?
Feel free to answer.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

You know, I could have sworn that there have been arrests of people who waved placards insulting our troops, aren't some of them due to appear in court this month, and another group in the new year?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Your scenario is faulty in two aspects -
a) There were no placards calling for the death of our troops (the protestors were idiots, imho, and their placards had slogans including: "Anglian Soldiers: Butchers of Basra" and "Anglian Soldiers: cowards, killers, extremists", but nothing about calling for the deaths of our troops).
b) Defending their faith - we have no evidence of that; all we know is that the proprietors of a hotel got into an argument based on religious matters - we do not know who verbally attacked who.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

that certainly puts a chip on my shoulder and imo its legal discrimination

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Its not faulty at all.
The scenario of the muslim protestors was more likely to cause a reaction on a greater scale than an argument in a kitchen.

---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------


Feel free to show me Xaccers.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Now you're really not making sense. Other than arrest having been made regarding the placard wavers, how is mohammed being a warlord part of christianity? I've read the bible several times, and you know, I don't ever recall him being referenced, perhaps, along with the entry in the forum's T&C which I mentioned earlier, you could quote any biblical passages which mention mohammed?
Shouldn't be difficult for you to recall them, after all, one would presume you know what you're talking about right? Or perhaps you don't?
In your opinion the law wasn't created to protect people from being insulted, abused, or harrased unless by a large group of thugs right?
Again you seem confused. The legislation is clear.
As for you other ignorant comment, you are applying today's British values and law on another nation in another time, and you don't appear to be aware that you are doing it.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

1. I don't think they were defending their Christian beliefs, which is what you are implying they were doing.

2. I think freedom of speech should not give you the right to say whatever you want. (And if yo thing otherwise then you would not be bothered about the muslim protestors as they are only exercising their f'reedom of speech').

3. I do think muslims protesting in the manner that the ones at the home coming parade are out of order. If a complaint has been made, and they were subsequently arrested (of which I think some were) then I would have no qualms with that. As far as I am aware action has been taken.

4. If I am in a heated debate with you and say, for example you started being racist towards me (I'm not saying this happened here) then I would have no problem with you being arrested. In all honesty we still don't know why they were arrested (i.e. we don't know what was said), so maybe we should wait for the conclusion of this case before we make assumptions.

Can I ask a question.

Would you have had a problem if this couple were not Christians, and it was A Christian woman taking them to court for something they had said to her.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Not wanting to repeat what has already been said, but these people were not just arrested for "defending their faith," they were arrested for public order offences. The doors of the hotel were not firmly shut, as there were other guests who clearly heard what was being said, that makes it a public place. The public order act was enacted to combat, amongst other things, harassment, distress and alarm caused by people behaving in way that would cause such things, obviously this is what is alleged to have happened.

No one here has less rights than any other person and I think it is disingenuous of anyone to suggest that there is.

This whole "paedophile" thing is starting ti get disturbing now. You are doing your utmost to construct a strawman argument out of something that allegedly happened one thousand five hundred years ago. If you want to go that route, I'd be very careful about quoting scripture about "paedophilia, as there seems to have been quite a bit about in the Bible, if I remember correctly. In fact, didn't Lot pimp his own daughter to save himself and his "guests" from being raped? Wasn't that after he made his other daughters pregnant, after raping them himself?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Lot was willing to whore out his own daughers, to save the two "angels from heaven" from getting raped, thats correct.

As to his daughters.... Unless I mis-remember (and I'm sure one of the more religious members will correct me if I'm wrong), Lots daughters got him drunk, had sex with him and got pregnant by him....Sounds like an average day in parts of Tennessee. :p:

[e] - removed incorrect statement.... Was unable to find written evidence of Lot murdering his daughters.

[e]- removed incorrect statement regarding Lots daughters reason for having sex with their father.

[e] - corrected drugged to drunk.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Don't forget Lot's uncle marrying Lot's sister. :erm: Hang on a minute, wasn't Memphsis in Egypt? :D

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Guys, can we get back on topic?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

I still havn't seen anything to say this was a debate willingly entered into by both partys and until i do and until there is it can't be called a debate as i doubt someone who willingly chose to take part in a religious debate would then go running to the police over what was said. What we do know thanks to representatives\supporters of this couple is that they made some ignorant remarks but we do not know their manner when doing so or if thats as far as they went so how exactly right now are we blaming this woman who was a paying guest in their business undergoiong hospital treatment ??.

Until we know more about this and there is definately more to this then we know right now some of us on here are going to look mightily stupid so lets wait till we know more. Then we can debate if this woman was some sort of troublemaker or that we have a couple who think anyone who stays at their hotel should have to endure their views on matters that are nothing to do with ruinning their business.

As for freedom of speech yeah i am all for that and i am also for the responsibility that comes with it and if your going to say something offensive you better be ready for the consequences.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

What if it was you being rascist? sticks and stones and all that I think some people should get a thicker skin instead of cry he was prejudiced towards me. If it was just verbal then they should toughen up

ive had enough people victimising me in my life and not once have I cried to the police

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Same here Zing but you and i know very well that some people are deeply hurt by verbal attacks and it can have a devastating impact on their lives. Not saying thats the case here but the old thing of "toughen up and learn to give as good as you get" is not always appropriate or practical and in ths case lets not forget it was two people onto one hospital patient does that sound ok to you becauseit doesn't to me.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Yeah, if I was being racist I'd expect to be done too. Happy?

Zing, all very well for you not crying to the police, but that doesn't mean others don't have to report it to the police.

I can't believe some of the arguments for letting people get away with abuse/victimisation/offence/racism on this forum. Just because you have a thick skin its ok for others not to report it? Just because muslims dont have rights in their countries of origin (incidently this one was born here) they should either put up or go back? etc etc etc.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

The way I look at it if a lot of those that cry to the police did toughen up and have a thick skin resentment from people like me might be reduced. An argument in an argument insult is an insult just cuz someone uses your skin colour or religion does not make it anymore of an insult imo. I am sorry but I think its weak and gives the yobs another reason to be how they are

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Perhaps it may be time to stand back and actually see what the court case reveals..especially as this thread is just rambling around the same issues with no one able to come to much of a consensus.:erm:

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

What a rather blinkered attitude. The abuse doesn't stop there though, does it? It carries on and gets worse. It starts with, "I don't like your religion," to "I hate your religion," to " I am going to disenfranchise you, because of your religion," then to "I am going to do you harm, because of your religion." Please, tell me, at which point do we say, "stop?"

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Blinkered attitude lol ok just cuz I do not agree with a lot of other peoples views makes me blinkered does it? Ive seen my fair share of crap mate to come to educated choices

Maybe you do not know but I am an inactive Jehovahs Witness so I have suffered enough persection for my faith

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 16:53 ----------

another point to bring up there is a very strong opinion against JW's from knocking on doors or the blood issue but you never get factions on here dedicated to fight their corner like Muslims do ;)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Growing a thicker skin will not solve the problem i.e. make it go away. Can you elaborate on how it will, or why "its weak and gives the yobs another reason to be how they are".

Also do you think the 'factions' on here are dedicately fighting her corner because she is a muslim, or would they have done so irregardless of her religion. I would have said the latter.

In my opinion I think the argument you are putting forward is along the lines of "i was persecuted and grew a thicker skin, so should everyone else". Personally I don't think its a valid argument at all.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

At this moment in time most of my sympathys do go to this woman because what i have read so far makes me think she was the victim of some good ol fashioned bullying and ignorance. I don't believe this couple were defending their faith i think they have bought the whole faith thing into it to gain support they would otherwise not have had. I may well be wrong but so far nothing contradicts that view and please someone tell me i am defending religion because i am not. I am judging this on the basis of two hoteliers who had a paying guest at their establishment for a month and then subjected her to the sort of rubbish they did and they must have known she was there for medical reasons which makes the whole thing more distasteful to my mind.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

You are pretty much right in the last paragraph. Why do you think a lot of people are anti Muslim? Its not cuz you have integrated into our society because you have not you have forced change by the constant prejudice whine we hear so much of. " Oh I didnt get that job its cuz im Muslim" "why cant we build that mosque where we want is it cuz we are Muslim" "why dont you like me is it cuz im Muslim"?( Muslim can be swapped with black Pakistani Indian etc)

The country I was born in has changed to accommodate ethnic minorities but at the expense imo of our rights. Minorities settled in our country for a reason,whether 1 2 3 or more generations ago. It was because they wanted a better life than the life they had in their own countries. And before you say Islam is not a race I know this but it is only so big in this country because is been bought in from elsewhere. If their own land was not good enough why try and change ours? I have no problem with you worshipping how and where you want but why does the county have to change? PC ethics white men not able to say what they want in fear of someone screaming discrimination

And before you think I treat anyone different cuz of race have I gave you any impression of that when you have pmed me for help? no but in threads like this I will post how I feel :)

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Mass stupidity?

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Zing, to start with, i do not, and i say this irregardless of how you have responded to my questions, feel you treat people, as individuals, different because of race or religion.
I don't agree with some of your opinions and arguments regarding islam, immigration and minorities. I do think your view of muslims in britain as a whole, is unfair and tainted by actions of the minority of muslims. Now as far as i am aware, we have conducted our arguments and debates without causing each other offence. Unfortunately there are many instances where debate is not conducted with respect, with more often than not the offensive party hiding behind the freedom of speech act. My argument is that offensive people should not be able to get away with it. I don't see why a victim should have to grow thicker skin as you say.
At the end of the day no one really knows what was said in that hotel. I do find it sad that some of the opinions formed of the muslim woman have been made simply because she's a muslim, and before the papers printed she was a white english convert, because everyone assumed she was an immigrant.

Re: Christians arrested for defending their beliefs
 

Jesus although in your belief is not the son of God but is still a revered prophet managed to turn the other cheek in the face or prejudice and discrimination. Are we not as followers of a faith meant to follow in the example of such men?