Re: [Update] BNP on Question Time this week
 

Did anyone watch 'BNP wives' on sky 3 earlier? Bunch of ignorant lunatics, all of them.

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Well Mr A, I dont think you & I have ever agreed......until now.

Jack Straw opened the "Discussion" (& I say that in jest, "Witch hunt" is nearer the mark), with a bow shot across Griffins ship. Griffin replied with a beauty, perhaps the Quote of the show. "My Father served in the RAF during the war, your Father was in prison for refusing to fight against Hitler". Straw later poured fuel onto his own fire by admitting his Great Grandmother was jewish.

The audience I saw was not a true representation of the people in this country, not unless the population is 40% coloured. It seemed Griffin was outgunned, by not only the audience, the panelists, but also by the presenter, who appeared to round on him every chance he got.

The truth did eventually emerge when the question was posed, If Labour have done a good job with immigration, over the last 12 years, why have one million people voted BNP? I did, a couple of times find myself nodding at Griffins answers. I want Bogus Asylum seekers, immigrant criminals & other undesirable foreigners deporting, I certainly want benefits to be stopped to these people.

Griffin is definatly not leadership material, he showed his lack of professionalism & did quite a bit of squirming & back pedaling, but Straw was shaking with rage when he spoke. A definate win for Griffin there. Overall, it showed the BNP are not ready to be a credible party, but it also showed that many people are turning to them simply because they are dissatisfied with the Lab / Con artists.

I would like to see another Question time with Griffin, this one appeared to have been "Staged" to show him up.

Re: [Update] BNP on Question Time this week
 

Absolutely and tonight was far, far worse than ever, what a complete let down and I actually think Nicky boy came out of it quite well, ok he was clearly a nervous wreck making his big time tv debut (sure they'll hope it was nerves because if not he is hopeless, I could have answered his holocaust and KKK questions better) and made himself look very foolish a couple of times but on the whole I bet they are grateful the political lightweights that made up the rest of the panel were so desperate to prove they were anti racist by scoring cheap points they didn't bother to go after the BNP organisation and it's policies. I wonder why it was when the subject of civil partnership came up the conservative Muslim lady wasn't questioned? Bullying has never gone down well in this country and I can see the BNP getting an upsurge of support over the next couple of weeks, similar to the conference bounce mainstream parties used to get before the expences fiasco.

One last thing, I heard Nicky getting interviewed after the programme and he was asked if he shook everyones hand as per show protocol, he said why would I want to shake Jack Straw's hand its got blood all over it, shame he never said that during Question Time imo.

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I thought this comment on the Times website puts it rather well:

Re: [Update] BNP on Question Time this week
 

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Nick Griffin chocked on his own words. It's fun to see people defending him and saying it was unfair when all he was asked was to explain himself. As for the audence, people needed to accept that most people are offended and sickened by his views.

I mean that in a real way. Not something I say in theory.

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Where was the discussion about the Royal Mail Strike, MP's rebuking having to pay back expenses? etc.

This was not a debate and quite frankly a farce. If you are going to get someone like the BNP on, and let's face it we know what their policies on immigration et al are all about, we should be hearing if they have anything credible to say about other issues. It is only by pressing them on other issues that the public will see they are onetrick ponies.

A shot in the foot by the BBC.

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Agreed.

The BBC really screwed this up - there was a real opportunity here for the BBC, for the other political parties, and for the general public, unfortunately the BBC failed to exploit it.

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They should have asked about the strikes. Certainly. The Immigration question was more an attack on Straw than the BNP, it was only after when he was questioned some members of the audience about ethnicity that it went back to the Griffin squirm show. The problem is that he is not often, if ever, in a format where his views are challenged and he has too answer it rather than deflect or blame political correctness for any opposition.

It was clear last night that he is a racist, and a nasty piece of work. I would have liked them not to ask about Churchill and instead the Black Solider who won the Victoria Cross(?) whom the BNP accused of being a beneficiary of a PC-State. That they only gave him the award because he was black.

He also didn't answer why one of the senior figures in the BNP though Churchill was a traitor for fighting the Nazi's.

I mean people have a point about freedom and speech. I certainly agree. I am getting tired of the BNP saying things like they did last night, chumming it up with the KKK, wishing a ethnically white Britain and people are more concerned that the BNP got a 'hard time'.

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He made a very good point when he pointed out that no one would dare ask a Maori or an American Indian 'what do you mean by indiginous ethnic'? :D

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And I did laugh about how after Straw went on about people fighting the Nazis Griffin said his dad fought against them in the RAF and Straw's dad went to jail for being a conscientious objector. :D

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Was that like "Readers Wives"?

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Is it really that hard to understand? If Griffin had openly admitted the racial basis of his party and not come out with such crap as the guy from the KKK being and "almost entirely non-violent man" then I'd least respect for his convictions of belief. But How many time was he asked if he was a holocaust denier? I counted 4 times and when finally pushed all he said was he's "changed his mind" because of apparently "intercepted radio signals" by the British army, never mind the mountains of other evidence having been available for years.

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and which is representative (if not overly representative) of their support in the country as a whole. Isn't that the point of shows like this? If half of the audience were British Nazi Party supporters and the other half not, wouldn't that have been biased ?

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Agreed.

He actually made several good points and, considering the degree of personal animosity and vitriol directed at him, handled the entire situation rather well given his lack of experience in that type of environment.

Moreover, at times he made Straw et al look like delusional paranoics pandering to a populist agenda. He had them trying, desperately, to appear more "right on" than any of them could ever legitimately claim to be.

Ultimately a complete failure for anyone who thought that this would "expose" the BNP. What happened in actual fact was that the so called politicians and social commentators failed. Career self preservation took precedence over what could have been a very healthy debate.

Nick Griffin was not exposed as the semi literate halfwit many, myself included, had hoped he would be. He was presented with a challenge and he rose to it. Distasteful and fanciful as many of his policies - past and present - may be he managed to come across as a victim of a "holier than thou" collective of parliamentary parrots who refuse to acknowledge their own shortcomings and the part which they each played in adding to the recent groundswell of support for Griffin and his ilk.

I was particularly impressed with his explanation of how his opinion on the holocaust had changed. His reply showed all the skills of a carefully choreographed debate waiting to happen. I very much doubt that any of the more astute politicians around today will be wanting to revisit his explanation.

I suspect now that this has passed that there are a lot more people minded to vote BNP and certainly a lot more people prepared to voice their support for some elements / rationale of their policies.

The fact that the nations capital could only muster 5-600 protesters shows the level of disdain the public have for politicians and their lies.

As I said earlier above - people (especially politicians) are not taking him and the threat of his increased popularity seriously enough.

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Actually it was asked, but as usual he tried the old, "leftist press lies" again.

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Actually I thought he wasn't pressed on the issue?

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That was nothing more than a cheap and irrelevant shot. What has Jack Straw's father's personal political and ethical opinions have to do with Fuhrer Griffin's belief that Churchill would have been a member of the British Nazi Party?

On the subject of Jack Straw, I thought the gave an very account of himself. I could see in his face, the amount of restraint he was applying, when responding to the odious little man's rhetoric.

---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

I thought he was saying that the intercepted signals were about the four hundred Jews massacred in Eastern Europe.

---------- Post added at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ----------

It was mentioned, but he appeared to deny the status of the author of the quote.

BBCi Player 09:05

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About as cheap and irrelevant as some of the name calling he had to endure :shrug: All in all a complete hash up by the BBC and the panel.
When they actually let Griffin answer a question he was either cut short during his answer or his answer was simply ignored. That is not the way to bring the man and his party down. His views have to be picked apart slowly.....
He came out of it looking restrained and dignified in the face of blatant vitriolic hatred and name calling :shrug: :(

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Because Jack Straw's father was busy being a conscientious objector and not fighting the Nazis whilst Winston Churchill had previously advocated practices which were adopted by the Nazis. He's quoted, verbatim, in the War Office minute of May 12th 1919 as saying "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes". In effect, on that premise alone, he'd have been over qualified to join the BNP.

Also, as I stated above, Griffin is obviously a choreographic debater. How many British people, up until 10:41pm last night didn't know that the man who has sent hundreds of their sons and daughters to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan was the son of a man who himself was imprisoned for refusing to fight a war?

I think you're confusing restraint with rage, frustration and indignation.

You thought wrong.

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Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Although its now appearing Griffin Snr's RAF stint during WW2 is underquestion somewhat.

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He was cut short because he never answered the questions. The Holocaust thing made him look awful, and while he said the quotes attributed to him were fabrications he never denied each one that was put to him. You say his views need to be picked apart slowly but that was not possible because he didn't seek to justify them. He would either laugh awkwardly or make stupid statements (like the stuff with the KKK).

There may be debate on if Question Time increased his votes but I have not seen a single interpreation that says he looked dignified. He couldn't defend his views, he squirmed out of his own quotations (incidentally I know a lot of people are angry he was asked on them. Poor BNP asked to explain their own statements) and laughed whenever he couldn't answer a question or was called a racist/holocaust denier.

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 ----------

Incidentally people's fathers actions or inactions are not the fault of their children. So neither Straw nor Griffin are responsible for it.

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What was he saying or attempting to say then? I was under the same impression as Flyboy.

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You are joking right?

There was only one question asked that wasn't aimed at Griffin. It was aimed at Straw and he bumbled and fumbled his way to a non-answer.

I agree with Mr A's review of the evening.

It wasn't Question Time it was personal attack time and it backfired badly. The rest of the panel were largely superfluous and the audience were not representative of the population.

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I haven't seen all of it yet but from what I have seen, I tend to agree with Mr Angry's excellent appraisal above. I don't think it was handled at all well by Dimbleby. Rather than having the paucity of their policies fully exposed in proper debate it seemed more like a one sided pub argument at times.

Jack Straw certainly lived up to his surname but Bonnie Greer remained very coherent and dignified which is very great credit to her!

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She did do well. Slaps down Griffin when he tried to minimise the whole KKK thing.

Nick Griffin has enough platforms to get throw easy questions and not have to answer his own statements. It was nice to watch him unable to justify it. Even if people think it was unfair. Did people really want him not to have to answer these and instead make populist statements and walk off as a man of the people.

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He was careful to answer them head on imo....

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Ask yourself this.

How long had these types of radio conversations and intercepts been going on?

Follow that line of questioning to its logical conclusion and you arrive at "Why were these radio conversations allowed to go on for so long"?

Once people grasp this then it's evident where Griffin is going with his particular "road to Damascus".

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Which ones. He answers the Islam one and the Gay one. He dodged the KKK one, his Holocaust one was pathetic and only answered after many attempts to get him to answer it.

He didn't have a car crash of a evening but he didn't get to be populist and I wonder how many people knew about the KKK? That he is against Mixed Marriage? Wants a 99% White Britain?

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

I don't think the culpability of the UK government in allowing the Holocaust to go on is a good enough answer to detract from why he denied it happened.

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Sorry Damien, you appear to have missed the fact that he now acknowledges the fact that it did indeed happen.

So, setting that aside, we're back to "the culpability of the UK government in allowing the Holocaust to go on.."

Over to you. Are you starting to understand the context of political expediency yet?

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That was not the current UK government although I imagine they would defer from intervening in other genocides (Rwanda anyone?) which is not much better.

He changed his views because he knew it would turn off a lot of people (although a lot still wouldn't mind, which is depressing). I don't think his reason was good because out of all the other evidence; the people who were there, the soldiers who saw the camps, the camps themselves, the testimony of Germans and former Nazis, the documentation and the bodies, that he wouldn't be convinced until radio incepects is obviously rubbish.

Such views are not a politician's cover up of incompetence they are a cover up of the sick beliefs of him and his ilk.

No other politician would be given the free ride if this emerged about their past as Nick Griffin is from people. If this were Jack Straw's past this forum would be up in arms.

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What i cant understand is why the program was allowed to be hijacked away from its normal format.
If it was a normal program they should have asked what thier views were on the economy, the post strike, the bankers bonuses, the mp's expenses, europe, afhganistan etc etc etc. (and immigration).
This would should how qualified griffin is to represent anyone in this country in any parliment.
Immigration is important but so are plenty of other aspects of uk way of life.

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Ah, so he did answer questions directly? Just now you said: Thats the problem with this whole issue, people were making sweeping comments about him and his views without backing them up . He could have been pinned down and slaughtered if people had taken the time to hear him out and responded to him properly rather than coming up with throwaway comments.....He didn't dodge the kkk one (but his answer was ill advised--'mostly non violent' :rofl: )
.....and he said that he now agreed that the holocaust had taken place--he was wrong in the past iirc :shrug:
Whether he believes that or is just saying it for the public is another issue; but todays news reports on what he said ie 'I haven't been convicted of holocaust denial' are are cherry picking his comments to present him in the worst possible light......he said more than that on the subject.

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It is Jack Straw's past. He's in Government, Griffin - thankfully - isn't.

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This forum is up in arms :D

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Mr A, you've lost me on this one.

The radio intercepts have been well known for some years now. It's also well known that they were decrypted at Bletchley Park and there was no way the British Government could have divulged their contents publicly during WW2 without advertising to the Germans the fact that they had cracked the Enigma. Churchill could not act on intelligence about mass slaughter of the Jews without placing the wider war effort in peril - a war effort that was, ultimately, going to be the only practical means of closing down the death camps.

Is it your understanding that Griffin was saying (or would have said, had he been given sufficient time to articulate it) that his acceptance of the Holocaust is tied up with these intercepts entering the public domain?

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Were the bnp fully exposed last night no they were not and come on people it is a one hour show that was never going to happen. Did nick griffin do well no he didn't he was avasive, decietful and out and out lying at times and that came across very clearly. Was the audience biased yes it was of course it was we live in a country of 62 million and only one million voted bnp so right there you have the vast majority that do not vote for or support the bnp.

Last night wasn't about fully exposing the bnp it was about exposing nick griffin and in that respect it did succeed more then it failed it also exposed jack straw as the incompetent bumbling politician that he has is and always will be. I cannot believe the amount of animosity there was towards him appearing on this program and personally the anti facists protestors outside the bbc probably did the bnp a bigger favour then the program itself with the way they behaved.

For those saying he was bullied or witch hunted against in that program well now you know how people from certain racial groups feel in areas where the bnp have strong support and please do not expect me to have any sympathy for him for getting a hard time because he got off a lot easier then he should have done or deserved too. He was always going to have a hard time and rightly so you cannot go about for long portions of your life spewing the sort of rubbish he has and then when the public get a chance to make you account for it expect them to go easy.

We need more of the bnp on tv to fully expose them it isn't something that can be done with a single member of the party on a single program we need more senior members on for the whole myth to be exploded. No matter how hard a time you get as a person you are judged by how you handle the bad times and he didn't handle it that well and certainly not as well as he should have done. Don't try telling me he didn't know some of what was coming last night and still he came out with laughable and contemptable things like the kkk guy being mostly non violent :rolleyes:.

Personally while most of the unpleasant things about the bnp are about different race i would like to have seen them exposed in other areas such as their true view of the disabled in this country. Because as disgusting and contemptable as their race policys are what i have heard numerous times in bnp pub meetings about how to deal with the disabled would make hitler a very proud little man and would show them up to the british people for the utter animals they are.

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This is what I was thinking. My interpretation was that Griffin *was* talking about the 400 Jews that were slaughtered. The implication was that he was not denying there was a holocaust, but didn't actually say anything about the scale, or the existence of death camps. He weaseled his way out of the question by accepting a minor detail had taken place, and not saying anything about the bigger picture. Masterstroke :erm:

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Just spot on. :clap:

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Ingenious, I suppose, but only in the same sense as some of the means devised for slaughtering Jews by the dozen were ingenious.

Then again, it may have got him out of a tight spot last night, but it won't stand any morning-after scrutiny. On what basis is he prepared to accept a transcript of a decoded enemy military radio message, yet to reject the testimony of countless eyewitnesses and the copious physical evidence that existed, and still exists? That's highly selective.

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I am sure that was put to him last night in the form of a question/remark "What about Auswitch". I think that just went by unanswered or maybe unheard.

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Yes. Correct.

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Chris,

What I'm saying is that Griffin is alluding to the fact that the Government of the day allowed the holocaust to continue. The RAF, without public disclosure of the rationale, could quite simply have bombed the access roads and railway lines which specifically serviced these camps with absolutely zero risk of compromising Bletchley Park or the work of those involved in decoding transmissions.

That they elected not to do so, combined with Churchill's advocacy of the use of poisoned gas, kicks Britain in the toys from an historically anti racist perspective. Griffin is seeking to challenge people's perception to the point that they question the sincerity of any British government when it comes to racism, imperialism etc.

Additionally his "I have trouble with the numbers" explanation last night is a direct reference to a row currently taking place between various secular elements of judaism. He is using their actual terminology and playing on the far right of judaism in relation to repatriation.

This guy is nowhere near as stupid as the mainstream would like to have us believe, nor are those who are coaching him. Last night taught us that much at least.

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I do think Griffin missed an opportunity last night. Surely he would have had an inkling as to what he would be asked, and rather than respond with "I have changed my mind" he should have presented coherent arguments for doing so, as opposed to just smirking. Everyone is entitled to change their mind about views and opinions that they had in the past, but you need to have good arguments for doing so.

Personally I think he could have been given a much harder ride to account his and his party's view. For example the views on disability that Rizzyking put forward in a previous post. The panel, given the short period of time they had, were focussing on his views regarding immigration and race, but they could have gone to task with other BNP policies which perhaps a lot of the audience are not aware off.

I don't think Griffin or the BNP benefited from his appearance yesterday, its a shame it wasn't a longer show, maybe with Paxman or Andrew Marr presenting it.

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Insightful and informative as ever ... thanks. :)

I think there are further issues that bear examination there, although they would be beyond the current topic (availability of resources for raiding death camp supply lines, for example ... the mission would have been morally highly desirable but of limited strategic value at a time when every bomb, bullet, spitfire and Lancaster was vital).

I'm not sure how clever Griffin's strategy is though. Churchill was not a saint, any more than any other man, but nevertheless that's the current popular view of him, and understandably so. Making him out to be a white supremacist of the Nick Griffin kind is only going to inflame opinion.

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I think you are over-interpreting. The problem with your interpretation is that hardly anyone (and definitely in his target audience) would have picked up on what he meant, so it makes no electoral sense whatsoever. I think his 'trouble with the numbers' means: 'I accept the holocaust took place, but I don't accept the numbers. Four hundred seems nearer the true number than Six million'.

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Slightly diverting to answer this point only.

We could have quite easily undertaken such a raid. We spared 19 Mosquitos for operation Jericho. A similar operation on the death camps and concentration camps would not have been dissimilar

http://www.sporting-memories.com/aai/gc002.htm

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Mr Angry during the war a great debate and period of planning took place on what they could do to disrupt the death camps and in the end it was decided logistically and tactically not possible to do anything to disrupt them long term and only the bombing of the camps themself would achieve that which was not done for obvious reasons.

If as you believe nick griffin was going down that route he would have known all that so i highly doubt that was what he was doing and i think your reading more into him then was there imo. The information on all of this is on the net somewhere but i don't have the links anymore but searching will find you it :).

Reality was that nick griffin has many many unsavoury moments from his past putting it nicely and for him to think he would not face scrutiny on them or have far better explanations of them does really show him up for the lightweight he is. Sorry but after watching that last night if anyone feels the bnp are more worthy of their vote then they were before he went on then they were already decided whether they realised it or not it was not by any means a good performance on his part nor do it make the bnp anymore vote worthy then they were in fact i would say the opposite is the case but thats just my personal opinion :).

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This man got exactly what he wanted from us all last night, the BBC, the general public, and all who took notice, (ATTENTION), the same as any or all the people in the world that require it when they are in a position of power i:e Hitler, Osama, The Kennedys, Gordon Brown, Barack Obama, they are all there to grab our attention, and we all fall for it, some of the people use it for good reasons some for bad, thats why i named the good with the bad, which in my eyes makes him a hell of a lot cleverer than anyone can even think, and also we have now given him noteriety he was wanting, and now he will be remembered, in history may i add, because we will all be talking about him for many years to come, and we all put him there, and until people realise thats what he/they want and start ignoring him, like you would if it was the bighead or the bully at school, there will only ever be one victor comes out of these things. I mean who would have remembered Emilly Pankhurst, or Jack the Ripper, no one, but for the things they done, we all read the news that the media pumps into our heads, and unfortunately these days it is impossible to ignore it. So lets face it he got on the stage and we all clapped "as it where" so now the ace card is in our hands and we should speak before they get chance to not after the horse has already bolted !

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I'm wondering how long it will be till the 1 million BNP supporters becomes 2 million, now that the BNP have had their airing on British TV.

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Mr Griffin has complained about his treatment on Question Time.

I found this comment of his interesting

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Roffle roffle. I did wonder about this though, as the proportion of non-white faces was somewhat higher than usual. QT is meant to be representative, but is it meant to be representative of the UK in general or of the local political and cultural situation in whatever town it happens to be in each week?

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I suppose he does have a point really. who decided that the program was to be all about race anyway?
I suppose it had to be because he was on there.

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Can't really blame the bloke for complaining as the whole thing was like one big witch hunt really.

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My thoughts exactly, also the man on the spot got what his party required, because lets face it we're all talking about it now aren't we ! Nuff Said !

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People are becoming increasingly less tolerant of mass immigration, and the governments attitude about it.
As was said, people that have voted the BNP are not necessarily racist. they are only concerned with the dismissed concerns of mass immigration by the present government. and the BNP are a party that have the same views, so out of the choices available, the BNP is the one they will choose.

which from watching the show, they and probably many more could think that 'they're' still not bothered about these concerns.
Political Correctness gets in the way all the time.

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What is 'Political Correctness' Gary?

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Ideas, policies, and behaviour seen as seeking to minimize social offense.

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"Political Correctness" now means not being able to open your mouth without being victimised for it !

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Yes, well done, we can all cut and paste from Wikipedia.

Do you understand what it means, Gary?

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Thanks for that - I would have also called that an accurate definition of "good manners".

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

Must make it difficult to breathe, then.

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Awww! Diddims! People were mean to poor old Nicky :( It's was clearly unfair how they brought his own words and policy up! Of course it's going to look bad if you actually talk about them!

Well he would know one...

Anyway. So:

• Gay people are 'creepy' (or public affections of their homosexuality is)
• Mixed Marriages are Wrong
• Britain should be 99% White
• Islam is Evil

And Nick Griffin is complaining he is being victimised :D

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Ah, you looked it up too?

No, I'm too dumb, Chris.

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:50 ----------

Is it "bad manners" to kill you in this war, sir?
Yes, mate, take me as a prisoner instead. it'll save a lot of hassle and paperwork.

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I googled the exact phrase you used, which blatantly wasn't something you could have constructed by yourself, in order to see which website you plagiarised it from. Lo and behold, the first hit was

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness

I didn't even have to click the link to check, as the Google result gave it away:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...5&d=1256302794

You said it.

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Victimisation always wins, Chris. :D

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Funny, Nick Griffin's phoning all the newspapers and TV stations today saying exactly the same thing.

The thing is Gary, you throw around fine-sounding complaints about political correctness and when I challenge you to prove you actually know what you're talking about, you effectively prove you don't know what it means by copying and pasting someone else's definition rather than producing your own.

Then suddenly when this is pointed out to you you're being 'victimised'. Well sorry, it doesn't wash. How is anyone supposed to treat your posts seriously and construct meaningful replies to them when all they are doing is arguing against a collection of buzz-words that you have thrown together without actually understanding what you're saying?

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I must admit I'm not a fan, whilst I would never suggest that it not be allowed I don't care for seeing two blokes kissing each other.

Just being honest.

Two 6ft blonde women on the other hand is alright by me.

bullpoo. What, I wonder, would his opinion be on the children of mixed relationships? I mean if the father or mother of the child was a "white indigenous british person" what does that make the child?

Just stupid.

This is where I have a problem. Whilst saying that Islam itself is evil is a sweepingly incorrect generalisation.

Many Islamic states are oppresive, male dominated regimes, that are quite nasty.

And he was right when he said that Islam is really at odds with western culture, the two are like oil and water.

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How did I know you were going to make the comparism?

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and the relevance of that comment is? Once again, you appear to be dabbling your toes in the shallows of reality whilst you take your daily stroll along the beach of insanity.

We were talking about political correctness, not war - I have been involved in conflicts, Gary, and they are governed by the Geneva Convention, not "political correctness".

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Here you are Chris. reach a wider audience. :soapbox:

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When in doubt, avoid the question.

Mmmmmm, where have we seen that on TV lately? ;)

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On Question Time last night. Jack Straw.

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I'm sure there was a topic here somewhere?

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I know, I think we're trying to exclude the 'political correctness' out of the issues in hand.

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I missed it as I fell asleep on the sofa..and my son decided to watch summat else.

So what I want to know did anyone ask Mr Griffin about his fiscal policies?Because I really want to see if they have any idea about the realities of running a country financially.:erm:

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You think, or you know? I think you don't know. The problem is Gary, you introduced political correctness to the discussion, but you still have yet to show you understand what it means or how it applies here.

Come on, step up to the plate and give us more than slogans. What do you want to say?

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No Maggy he wasn't quizzed on anything current. what he was questioned on and was only to be expected was all the drivel he has come out with over the years and as it was the first time many of the public had a chance to question him on that was no surprise to me. How badly he handled it was a surprise to me i was sure he would have had some training before the show on dealing with things a lot better then he did or maybe is capable of handling.

Some people seem to feel he was victimised and bullied and i find that hilarious i really do when you don't have to look hard to see that those are things nick griffin and the bnp core membership are constantly doing to others. Seems it's ok for them to do it but heaven forbid they should ever be on the end of it themselves. He got a very easy ride last night compared to what he could have got and i agree the purpose of last nights show was not to show the bnp for what they are it was to show the nation what nick griffin is like out of his comfort zone you know that place most of us have to deal with often in our lives.

In future i hope the bnp are on more often then we can get to the truth of how capable they are on the real issues of the economy and other things that are just as important as the race area. But right now for anyone to say they now have greater support of the bnp after his appearence last night shows why were in the mess we are with politics if some of us are setting the bar so low for our support.

Personally for me who i admit was more likely to nail my head to a wall then ever vote\support the bnp i found his appearence to be anything but support worthy and showed him up as about as convincing a politician as a chocolate fireguard is for protecting me as fireguards are meant too. He has changed his views according to him on so many of the core thngs the bnp stands for that he clearly hasn't got a single bone of conviction in him.

I would rather someone be honest about their views however despicable i might find them, then have someone who clearly holds views and is scared to express them for the sake of votes he is no different to any of the others except of course the lengths his party would go to if we were ever stupid enough to vote them into power.

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A LOT of people think that public affection of homosexuality is creepy so he is right in that part at least

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You think I don't know I think? :confused:

Nothing I haven't really already said. I might have something to say later as the thread progresses.

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

I thought that too when I heard him say it.

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I found it rather good to watch. Thankfully Griffin isnt as charismatic as he would have himself believe but he did have some valid points and on the odd point came across slightly more forth coming than some of the other panelists.

I have also seen in todays papers and on the BBC news web site how some of his comments have been taken out of context & or the full sentence of his reply's havn't been used verbatim. Which from those media representitives is a pretty poor show.

We dont really need to know how friendly he is with the KKK or that he has changed his mind over the holocaust, what we need to know is if the BNP were to get any further than they are in the political arena would they do the right thing by all citizens of the UK, what the people really want or would they continue to use their soaring popularity to persue their own agenda.

Jack Straw was clutching at them, Barroness Warsi came across as the most competent of the panelists and the most articulate politcian on the panel. I didnt understand why Bonnie Greer was on the panel, never heard of her and although she talked a good arguement really shouldnt have been on there as she is not representative of the UK and not an elected party member. Chris Huhne seemed to sheepishly follow Warsi and Straw and was not strong enough in the comments he made apart from his condemnation of Jan Moir, totally wasted opportunity by the Lib Dems IMO.

I would like to see more of Griffin on shows like question time. All the other parties seems to get lots of air time and we have to endure them why should the BNP be singled out as a party that shouldnt have a voice when they have 2 ELECTED members of the EU parliament.

I dont think that Griffin shot himself in the foot by going on QT, he didnt seem comfortable with the studio and the audience but as this was his first foray into live TV debating he wasnt totally stupid, arrogant or ignorant.

And no I dont support the BNP, but I do support freedom of speech and expression and if that means more parties like the BNP getting airtime then so be it.

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I fully agree. Even when given his "get out of jail free card," he still refused to answer the question about changing his mind. Which really begs the question, has he actually changed his mind (don't worry I am under no illusions as to whether he really has or not)?

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I think we think we know that we think you don't think, even though you think you think you know you think, but you might not think you think you know you think.

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You seen the program? There is little taken out of contest although the 'defending' of the KKK was kind of badly worded. He did defend the leader of the KKK and unsuccessfully tried to make a joke out of the KKK which brought a stamming response from Greer.

Of course we need to know if he is friendly with the KKK! He is an elected representative in the European Parliament, a leader of a party with aspirations to get members into the British Parliament. Going to meet the KKK and being friendly with it's leader is important.

They always have someone from the world of culture on the show. This time the politicians were overrepresented as it's usually 3 politicians and 2 from the world of culture/sport/business/religion/other social organisation. She was the best on the show so I am glad she was on.

Because they only have 2. Parties get coverage relative to their position amongst the electorate and the BNP are still a minority party by a long way. The Greens and UKIP also don't find a lot of attention. I don't think the BNP deserve special treatment.

He didn't come across the way he wanted too. His explanation of changing his mind on the Holocaust was poor as was his (lack) of explanation into why a senior member of his party said Churchill was a traitor for fighting other white nationalists (Hitler).

Freedom of Speech does not equate to a free platform. I have freedom speech but couldn't be on Question Time because of my insignificance and lack of interesting things to say.

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Dimbleby:

Have you actually changed your mind or because the law says you cant say these things.

Griffin:

I have changed my mind, a lot of it is about figures, one of the key things that have changed my mind was the British radio intercepts of German radio transmissions, about the brutal mass murder of innocent Jews in Eastern front during anti-partisan warfare, which changes the figures very greatly.

(Apologies for any inaccuracies, but the gist is there)

BBCi 19:58

Although it does appear to be somewhat ambiguous, I am inclined to believe he is still saying that only four hundred Jews were killed.

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That's what I thought his overall conclusion was i.e. he belives that Jews were killed , but a much smaller number. I also got the opinion that he still thinks concentration camps are a myth.

The most positive reaction he received was when he 'discussed' Islam. I do feel that the BNP's future strategy will be to tone down on the blatant racism (i.e. make Britain white) angle and concentrate on, as he put's it, Islam's incompatibility with the west and base his immigration arguments against that.

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I pretty much agree with all of this. For me Baroness Warsi was the surprise. She was articulate, logical and incisive. She managed in her few sentences to put down both Straw and Griffin. I found her delightful.

Dimbleby should be ashamed of himself. Allowing the mob to run riot has almost certainly gained Griffin some sympathy in certain circles. I feel he and the BBC managed to shoot themselves in the foot.

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The staggeringly biased lynch mob Question Time broadcast on BBC 1 has turned into the single biggest recruitment night in the British National Party’s history, with no less than 3,000 new people registering to be signed up as members when the current court-ordered recruitment freeze ends.


From the BNP's website

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That was going to happen anyway. The type of people who would actually sign up to be a member would be those already strongly in favour of them and thus trying to make a point about the criticism he received. He could have gone on there are called for death camps and their recruitment would have gone up.

His performance last night would not be enough to convince moderates. I mean his performance was not probably good enough to cause people to leave the BNP but there was nothing last night that would encourage people unless they are massive KKK fans or also suspect the Holocaust was a lie.

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You make it sound like you have to be a racist to vote the BNP.
I'm sure the kind of people you have described are most probably already a supporter.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

I'll have what he's not sniffing up his nose :D

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So Griffin called it "a lynch mob" and he's cool with the KKK? Oh the irony.

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Yeah i am laughing more then ever at this "poor little nick he got picked on on the tv" he went on there of his own accord if he didn't know what he was letting himself in for then i would rather have GB for another five years then the bnp get another vote. I think today shows what the bnp plan was all along it was nothing to do with being on QT or getting recognised it was all about being able to further their "were picked on for our beliefs" rubbish and trying to manipulate more support that way.

Seriously the idea that he is some victim is as laughable as it is offensive more so for those and there are many of them that have been real victims of the bnp and how they operate when there are no cameras about. Little message for you nickie boy if you can't stand the heat saty out of the ktchen and if your going to open your mouth and spout complete drivel and hate expect others to remember it and question you on it when they get the chance as they did last night.

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Well as I think they have absolutely no idea about how the country is run financially I felt it was something they should have been challenged on.After all no one would hesitate to ask such a question of any of the main stream parties and frankly they have a hell of a lot more experience than Griffin and co.I feel it would have been the real way to show just how bad they would be if given any chance at government funds.

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One of the bits I was refering to was when Griffin said that seeing to guys having a kiss in public was "kinda creepy" and what I have seen read came across as Griffin said homosexuals, gay men were creepy.

Not really, if I met\spoke to a militant and then I have a position of "power" what I said\did doesnt matter as long as I dont reflect the feelings of that other person\party, JMO obviously.

As I have only caught glimpses of QT on the odd occassion I didnt know\understand the format, thanks for pointing that out :tu: I still feel she wasnt needed though.

They do deserve to be heard on the same platforms as all other parties regardless of how many representatives they have.

He was poorly prepared for the show & as were his explanations.

We all have the right to to freedom of speech & a free platform, as us mere mortals are insignificant your right QT is out of the question but speakers corner isnt, also 900,000 people that voted for the BNP want him as their mouth piece

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I think Nick Griffin actually made some very valid points last night while the pack of wolves was on him. He was not allowed to always finish what he was saying or explain himself fully, that is no democracy!
I think a large proportion of people in this country (regardless of colour or religion) are partly racist even when they say they are not. Like Griffin said, would a asian family welcome a white person in if their son or daughter took them home? absolutely not and they would not like it, and we have so called "honour killings" as proof!
Labour, and the Torys before them totally messed this country up and helped put us where we are today, look how many people from across europe and the world for that matter have come to this country and taken English peoples jobs. At least with the BNP you know they would actually look after the English people first. I have never considered myself to be pro BNP or share a large portion of the views they have, but I would consider voting for them next time around. Could they really do any worse than Jacqui Smith? which currently is my towns MP.....I think not.

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"look after the English people first" As long as your white fully fit and healthy and contributing in the ways they feel are acceptable and if you don't fit that then the bnp arn't going to be any good for you at all.

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well,i didn't see anything on last nights QT that made me think Nick Griffin could possibly run a country
The only thing i will say though is he must have known he was going to get lynched like that, so either he believes so strongly in what he says or he is so naive as to think that his first televised performance in the political arena would go any other way
if the first then well done to him for standing by his beliefs in the face of such hostillity ,more politicans should do the same
if the second then he has no buisness in politics

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I would love to see the criteria for that as very likely most of the present population including fully paid up members of the BNP would need to be repatriated to somewhere.

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Let me assure you that's total and utter bollards. My OH is Asian (British Indian), I'm several-generation UK Welsh and they have no problems with me at all. As long as I look after and love my OH then I'm fine by them.

Good enough reason for the Welsh, Scots and N Irish not to vote for them then.

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actually Russ it's not ,it may be in your case and many others but equally the reverse for a lot of asian families, some are extremely racist

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All of which goes to prove that sweeping generalisations are pointless. And as Griffin's position is based on a whole load of sweeping generalisations, it's fair to conclude that Nick Griffin is pointless.

Oh, and I do hope you're not suggesting that because some Asians are racists, that it's ok for some white people to be racist?