Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Oh don't get me wrong, it's still copyright infringement (it's not theft, but that's a debate I really don't want to get into) my point though is going on about how it funds crime is just wrong, as the way the majority of people get their stuff involves no money at all, and so people will just ignore the issue as it doesn't apply to the copyright infringement they do.

Plus, even though what they do is illegal you have to admit that the release scene is the greatest content delivery network around, 10mins after a tv show stops airing it's available for download, it takes the bbc hours to get stuff on iplayer!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Guys, filesharing is copyright infringment, where as dodgy boxes is theft of services (can't find the link atm but I have posted the relevant ACT in the forum before)

So lets please stick on topic and leave copyright issues to another thread

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Let's get this right. You've got "XLTV, phone, 20Mbs BB, premium channels, V+", you've just spent £130 on a load of food, two CDs and a Wii game, and I'm paying your dole money.

Scrounging thief.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It is being looked at and stuff is in the pipeline :DThey are about to trial it :D:D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Really, so all they have to do is push a button and bam that's all boxes dead? If so then do it do it do it.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

wish it was that easy :D But it is good :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'd hope so, will we have to all have new viewing cards though like on sky?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Query which is worse for the network modified/3rd party boxes or cloned modems?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Cloned modems.

3rd party boxes don't utilise any resources, there's a small chance of them providing interference, but with a properly modified box it's non existant, they just decode a signal that's already being sent down the cable, whereas cloned modem take downstream and upstream bandwidth away from legitimate customers

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I already thought that myself and find it mental that more appears (to me anyway) to be spent on messing with the dodgy tv boxes

Ive been offered cloned modems by 2 totally different people this last couple of week but aint interested

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

What's worse for the network, and what loses them more money, are two different things though. They're going to go after the thing that's hitting their bottom line more rather than what is causing the biggest disruption to the network.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They got no reason to assume they would get enough paying customers to cover the cost though

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I hope all those dodgy boxes get fried! lol :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Virgin are finally doing something? Are they updating the systems software or just rolling the keys again?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I certainly hope that Virgin are seriously looking at switching off the freeloaders very soon.

I know plenty of people with these boxes and cards that laugh at people like me who pay subscriptions.

Obviously whatever Virgin have in the pipeline will have to remain under wraps but I do hope it involves a major headache for users of these boxes. It's about time.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Eventually EVERYONE will get a new Smartcard

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Is it true that everyone will get a new smartcard? Does that mean a change of encryption or what? Im glad something is getting done.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Does that mean they are moving to that nagra3 thing?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Is there a time scale for eventually? I don't think it should take them too long as Sky have recently given all their customers new viewing cards. I hope the trials are successful and will wipe out them all completely. :) Will it be done area by area or nationwide? I'm probably asking questions that can't be answered but just wondering like lol.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Anyone else think this may also be one of the conditions placed on Virgin by Sky for any future deal involving Sky HD channels.

Why would Sky want their Premium HD channels thieved for free when they have spent so much on their own anti piracy measures for their own delivery system.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

This was one of the issues that sky did imposed on VM, however the launch of IPTV will soon combat the piracy issue not so good news for VM as they will lose thousands of customers who currently pay minimum subscription just to receive free channels, they will all soon switch to sky as their sky tv service is alot better.








I DO NOT CONDONE THE USE OF ILLEGAL TV SERVICE.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Won't these people still have to see out their 12 month contracts? After which VM can still offer their usual retention sweetners. I can't see the losses being in the thousands.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Probably they will all have to see out there 12 mth contract but we have to wait and see what happens when it kicks in. One thing VM is good at is there BB service now one can't beat that, thats where they make most of their money.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Indeed.. and if they want premium content then they will have to pay for it..whether its VM or SKY... the "customers" who have the basic service and are currently stealing premium content are they type of customer VM want rid of anyway... they want more top tier customers and have said that they accept they will lose some due to this.

All the deals are based on you taking more or all services and the XL tv pack is way better than SKY's equiv in my opinion. :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Info from 'Coming soon to Virgin TV (2009)' thread (thanks MB ;))

Hooray!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

that really is a morons guide to how to change a smart card isnt it ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Works for me.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

This is good news :D;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

how has this video surfaced on the internet though. the website shown in the video isn't even active yet it just asks for a username and password

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That's how secure things are - note the description 'Cardshare FTW'

Someone in or connected to Virgin probably got the promo video and leaked it. A lot of the cable modem hacking related stuff comes from a Virgin insider so wouldn't surprise if that same guy or another leaked this promo.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

....or, the production company that made it.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hence use of 'connected to' above ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well, however it got onto the internet, it's good news. Maybe prices will decrease, probably not because they still have to pay for this to be implemented, but still, one can hope.

It really is. "Some are hiding behind a door"

Someone already knew for ages and has probably seen this video before haha

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

www.virginmedia.com/smartcards

"Please come back on October 16 2009"

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It should be fun if they update the cards, especially if it stops the current dodgy boxes completely (I can almost hear the cries of "it's not fair" already).

[edit]
at about 1:40 it goes "our V+ boxes, some of you might now as TV drive have the slot at the back, as do our new HD boxes", has a new HD (presumably not PVR) box been announced?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

:DFun times ahead :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They will find a way around Nagra 3. They always do....:td:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yes Ned, will we be fully informed via the website on Friday?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Who said it would be nagra 3 ? :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Oi! Quit with the wind ups lol :D Well is it?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Anyone who looked at www.virginmedia.com/smartcards last night would have seen that the internet explorer title bar read 'Nagra 3 is coming'.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

That says please come back on 16th October 2009,

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

About sodding time

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Its cloned modems I would rather see sorted myself. The TV stream is present all the time just decrypting it and watching it free will do less damage to the network than all the cloners out there

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Yes well given the months and months of publicity Sky have done about a new card rollout best not to hold your breath.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ----------

It's already partly done via key sharing. That said no guarantee it's Nagra 3.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Card sharing though relies on someone with a working account.. (they don't tend to be out in the public domain as then the key can be cancelled)

Where Nagra2 (and some older systems) the master keys are either out in the public domain or they are crackable so that gives the ability to create a key no linked to an account, the same thing happened with Sky many years ago when a disgruntled employee decided to publish some fo the master keys and sky then had a problem with dodgy cards for a couple of years on the old videocrypt system and more recently with Digital+ and thier Nagra 2 system hence they've gone to Nagra 3 where the Master keys are not out and no-one yet has thus produced daily keys..

It realy is where VM needs to go, both Nagra 3 and NDS have resisted hacking of the master keys and it is only card sharing that is a 'limited' problem

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It should be noted that the Conditional Access ID that is showing up in what appears to be a 'test area', Leeds, isn't a total match for Nagra 3 though.

Right company, Kudelski, but I've seen Cisco mentioned, Kudelski supply CAMs to Cisco which produce this ID it would seem, suggesting it's part of incremental IPTV upgrade.

Seems likely it'll require return path to work, which is nice.

Wonder how many of the guests reading this are going to report back to the FTA-type forums :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hmmm, won't hold my breath..

Q? How will the IPTV streams work? Will they still be a constant stream but instead perhaps gated at the cabinets for each user until the IP requests the stream to be routed? Or are they going for a complete shutdown of the streams and have it more like a scenario where you request a stream to be opened from the main source and it's yours and only yours all the way?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Multicast though without the IGMP snooping L2 switch.

Streams will only be sent to a physical area when a box on that node requests them of course, in a similar manner to Switched Digital Video.

A really cool thing of course is that when a box wants to view a stream it needs to call home so that it can announce its' desire to join the multicast group opening the way for constant and repeated 2-way authentication:

The other option is to just use unicast, 1 box, 1 stream, but that's probably impractical for bandwidth purposes.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well here's hoping that they start to roll this out and that some of the scummy thieving gits lose there tv by christmass :tu:

:tu: to VM for starting to get the thieving gits off the network :)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i suppose Virgin will find out how many "customers" only pay a bare minimum to keep the feed live - then ditch it when the encryption changes.

They really should have done something about those that attach their cable feed directly to the street cabinets and don't pay a thing !!!

Multiple cloned modems/free to view boxes for absolutely nothing - ridiculous state of affairs.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hi guys.

Some of you are indeed correct, i do work for Virgin Media.

I can also tell you for a FACT, that this wont be Nagra 3 but a variation of it.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

?

Care to show the proof. Post from a virgin media internal address so the mods can see it and confirm you are staff.

Watch the cost of dodgy boxes plummet as the ******* dealers try to off load there stock :LOL:.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Also I don't care if it is a variation as long as


A. Its secure

B. Vm keep it secure.

C. If its hacked VM make it secure again

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I've recieved a few PM's from fellow Virgin Media employees giving me some advice.

So this will be my last post.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Ok

Be Well

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Take care matey

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Dont let it put you off just do not blow the whistle lol

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I certainly hope the end is nigh for these people who have been using illegal boxes for what has been a number of years now.

It's becoming all to common amoungst people, I know of at least half a dozen in my street who have these boxes in use and haven't paid a penny to Virgin for years.

I hope that in the coming weeks Virgin implement such a system that will cut off all these boxes or cards which are illegally being used. It has went on for long enough.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

i dont really care what they do as i get all my football and movies via a 1.1meter motorised dish but i have to congratulate vm on their bb service. excellent!

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well the card change program is 100% genuine, as information went out to staff today.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It's October 16th, the site is still telling me to come back on October 16th hmmm

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Now let's hope that Virgin Media use this as an opportunity to demonstrate good customer service by keeping all affected customers aware of the reasons for doing this and the timescales that they hope to achieve....

....starting with the smartcards page which suggests an update today:

http://www.virginmedia.com/help/smartcards/

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Typical Virgin Media - telling people a vague deadline for something. ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Indeed. I see you commented on the internal forum Ben ;)

:tu: to VM for finally address the thieving gits who steal cable. What a nice Christmas present they are going to get.

BTW you can bet someone from there forum will come here and go on about how they will or have cracked nagra 3. The truth is its not cracked and all you have to look at is Southern Ireland for proof that its not cracked, Houndreds and houndreds of dodgy settops now just door stops.:LOL:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Website is up. This made me laugh in the FAQ:

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They do have to aim the FAQ's at the least clued up of their customers I suppose.

I have a neighbour who has both VM and Freeview who will ask me all those Freeveiw questions even if he sees the information in black and white on his screen. From past experience he will also want me to get it in writing that VM aren't going to charge him for the new card. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/10/6.gif

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Remember this is basically the first card swap cable have done - so, unlike Sky, a lot of Virgin customers won't be used it

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Is the next few weeks bit true though Ben?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

For the pilot, yes it is.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Wheres the pilot

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Several areas. Not sure if I'm allowed to say TBH

We'll find out soon enough when people get their cards ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Leeds is one of them given the new encryption is already in use on test channels there :)

Tad late to pilot really given the advertisement on the website :D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Been a wile since i posted here. I am really excited about this. I get so p***** off with all those at work offering me dodgy boxes and telling me how great they are. I told them it will change, they don't believe me. I not even going to mention this to them. I going let it just happen to them and their screen go blank. No more than they deserve they said "You need help paying subscriptions when you can get it free" They be needing help now. I really cant wait for this hurry up Virgin media switch them off.

I work on the local council by way hundreds of employees. Question, Will this switch off all the hacking these thieves have done? At work many have cloned modems for internet giving 20mb for free. I get offered all these things, when it changes in my area it will knock off thousands of these dodgy boxes and modems.

I cant wait to see their faces when they come to work missing football and all the pay per view they say they get for free. :):):):D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Well the very minimum its going to do is that the scummy thieving gits will lose there tv for good unless they pay like the rest of us. The other upshot of this is that the traders who sell boxes and sell fixes every couple of months will not be earning money from it anymore. Oh how my heart bleeds for them :LOL:

Just seen this posted on a well known forum

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Ben, I totally understand why you can’t go into detail. However I shall be abroad from 11 Nov to 11 Dec, with a load of programmes set to record. I’m concerned that the new card may arrive whilst I’m away and the old card may expire before I return.

There is no indication in the FAQs as to how long one has to change card once the new one arrives.

Is there any form of words that you could use to indicate if I may have problem? If not a PM would be much appreciated. By the way I’m in Cambridge.

Regards

--John

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

You will be fine

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thanks for that Ben.

John

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

As Zing has said, and maybe some others, all they have to do now is deal with the cloned modems, that should seal it up rather nicely.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Just curious but I was reading on another forum (beginning with a "T") about card sharing and was wondering if this would actually be a possibility for those still wanting free cable?

Also what can vm do to stop clone modems?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

They could do a system where if a modem connects with the same MAC as one on the system it is blocked

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It's a possibility, but a far smaller one than the current system.

Card sharing is only really possibly within small groups, you can't have widespread card sharing because once you open the group up to anyone the keys from the card become public and the card is easily blocked.

For a card sharing ring to work you have to trust every single person you're sharing the card with, you'll never have an instance where you can just sign up to a website and get into a card sharing ring.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Thanks for the extra information.

It's quite interesting to read about the various things that vm can stop people abusing the system. Are the new smartcards anything to do with the iptv people have been talking about on here?

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Not sure

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I have a v box and v+ I have a funny feeling they will only send one.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

What justification do you have for that statement? The website is clear that you will receive a separate card for each box:

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/help/smartcard/

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Unless of course one of the boxes is dodgy ;)

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

No way!


I said I had a feeling....

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Query

Is this actually going to be uncrackable or is it just urinating in the wind? as soon as it is in place coders will be on the case so it needs to be pretty special. In modern history the only wide used tech device thats been uncrackable upto now is the PS3

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

There's really no such thing as uncrackable, the best you can do is make it as hard as possible, and make it dynamic enough to update when it is eventually breached.

Nagra 3 has been in use in other countries for a couple of years and has remained secure, so it seems to be able to withstand the attempts to break it, obviously being used in the UK there will be added focus on trying to crack it, but, it seems like it's pretty secure.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I don't think that there will be added focus for such a limited market as the UK as the D+ and other sat market is europe wide.. If that was the case then NDS would have fallen a bit ago...

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

So is the card thing actually happening or is it a bluff by virgin?

Also are the test areas just to see if anyone can compromise the system or are they there just to see how people take to the cards?

Still can't help to think that this is a bluff by virgin

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

It is happening

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

I'm pretty sure that Sky's NDS hasn't been cracked yet. There's been rumours of people breaking it and being paid off or threatened by Murdoch's lawyers or stories about someones brothers mate knowing someone who has a cracked Sky box, but nothing concrete as far as I know.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Neither.

It's to test how well VM's systems cope with the migration to n3.

You don't want to do a largescale rollout and suddenly find you have issues with the backend equipment, so you do small test areas first. Standard roll out practice for anything.

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

From what I know it was close to being cracked once, and sky responded extremely quickly with new cards (that was the last new card roll out from sky in 02 I think?) and the latest set of new cards from them is to prevent softcams from being used to card share.

So yeah, it hasn't ever been completely cracked.

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Hmmm, new cards would only change the keys unless they changed the whole encryption, so instead of a crack it was probably a master key was leaked..

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Ah thanks for answering :)

Are we sure that this is going to be nagra 3 and not the start of the change over to iptv?

Btw a bloke who sells them around my end offered me one of his dodgy boxes for £30 today so it looks like they are running scared now haha

Re: Virgin media possibly getting serious on dodgy boxes?
 

Indeed and its good news