Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

No, it can't be true... It's not reported on the BBC web site. Well, I can't see it.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brief article in the Observer about it.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Here too.....

If these allegations are true it would appear that so concerned is she about the the plight of the poor and the chronic shortage of affordable homes that she has her very own housing association property. No, it can't be true can it?.... It's not on the BBC website after all...

Well things really aren't looking brilliant for Brown are they?... Mind you, he's very popular on the Downing Street website. Currently, the largest petition is this one (please note that IS on the BBC so it's bound to be true). Now Gordon's always made a lot of fuss about how he's been listening to the people and acting accordingly so I wonder if he'll take note of what they're saying about him?...

Oh and just in case you thought the MP's expenses information soon to be revealed was going to be released in a spirit of true openness, think again.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

You trust the BBC website :erm:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

No I don't Sirius, I trust no one, not even myself.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The funniest thing is Brown's best chance of winning the election was back when he hesitated ...the damage is done so I guess cameron will be winning ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Only interesting thing left for us to watch in this GB government is how long it takes people to start sticking the knife in to try and seperate themselves from this shambles of a government. Other then that for most of us public it will be more of the same watching cringing at how royally shafted we are till we can get rid of the lot of them.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

A quick search reveals that the allegations against Baroness Uddin are deemed sufficiently credible and newsworthy to be covered in the Times, Daily Telegraph, The Guardian, The Observer, The Daily Mirror, The Sun, ITN News, The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Independent and many other places. Oddly, however, I still can't find any mention of the story on the BBC... :confused: :rolleyes:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

BBC is very nearly just a government mouthpiece these days giving the opposition a tough time on interviews and suchlike and going easy on most of the governement ministers they have in. If it is negative for the government or something that doesn't make them look good you'll be waiting a while to hear about it on the bbc.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Oh look, the BBC has finally caught up with the Uddin story...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8034828.stm

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The BBC's timescale in reporting this is not evidence of bias towards Labour. The original report was in the Sunday Times and it's clear that the BBC hasn't been able to verify it by talking to any sources of its own. All it would have been able to do is report exactly what the Sunday Times reported - effectively a 'single source' story, which the BBC has stated very publicly it does not do except in exceptional circumstances.

They are able to report it now because there is something verifiable in the public domain that can be said about it - namely the investigation by the Clerk of the House of Lords.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Well I didn't claim the BBC are biased towards Labour (they're just fixated on PC) and I'd have been very happy if they'd simply have reported what the Times were claiming - after all they are very serious allegations which were widely reported amongst the rest of the media. There must be lots of occasions on which the BBC reports news it can't independently verify the accuracy of.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Actually there really aren't that many occasions - not since they ran a 'single source' item on Today reporting allegations that the Government had 'sexed up' claims that Saddam Hussein could deploy WMDs in 45 minutes. That cock-up resulted in a man's suicide, as you might remember. Editorial standards at the Beeb are now extremely, some might say hopelessly, strict in this regard.

Single source reporting is for extreme circumstances only, and in the context of this story, the Sunday Times is the single source. Had that story turned out to be a libel, the fact that they were simply reporting what another newspaper had already said would be no defence. The Sunday Times has access to whatever interviews it conducted in order to prove its case, were it accused of defamation, but the Beeb would have nothing.

What they have done is wait until they have their own quotable, verifiable source before reporting, and the Clerk of the Lords has given them that by announcing an inquiry. In fact the good lady baroness has also given them something quotable, by announcing that she will co-operate.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Isn't that the reason the BBC normally uses the term 'allegedly' so liberally in its reporting?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Nope - that's an urban myth. Stating that something has been 'alleged' by someone else is not a defence against a claim of libel.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Why do they do it so much then?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

You would have to ask them. ;) At a guess I'd say it's an attempt to distance themselves from it, just in case it does come back to bite them. I don't know how successful a strategy that is though. 'Repeating a libel' is most definitely actionable.

I know of what I speak, by the way - I am a journo (a properly trained one, unlike most of the hacks in Fleet Street), and I've passed the course on newspaper law. :)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Cheers for that - just been doing some reading up on libel laws and it's an interesting field. One which perhaps more people should look into.

Found this which clarifies things nicely.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Interesting until you have to swot up for it, I promise you. Or until you have to actually make a snap decision on whether you can go to print with something or not. :D

Everyone should have a copy of McNae's on their shelf. (Go on, look it up ;) ).

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

That's what brown trousers are for isn't it? :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Why do i get the feeling now the telegraph are publishing details of who has claimed what we're about to see a sudden upsurge in honesty from some of our elected servents including good ol gordon.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Well it does appear that the impending release of this information focussed some minds and improved a few memories around the House of Commons....

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I wonder if Paul Murphy was actually referring to his central heating when requesting that "the old boiler" be replaced ;)

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yeah funny how having a light shone somewhere dark can motivate some people isn't it :rolleyes:.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

How is that the BBC feels able to publish and comment on the allegations now being made by the Daily Telegraph when, to my knowledge, nobody at this point is able to verify the facts or the accuracy of the information the newspaper has obtained? Today they've felt able to repeat certain allegations made against one minister who's already threatened legal action against the newspaper.. :confused:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

i still think the question everyone should be asking is why are they papers doing this

i still think this is motivated by buisneses who whis to push MPs in to be relient on donations to get these perks rather than from us


in a few years time when their plasma tvs are provided by bpi, phorm, google, sky, etc wich way do you think laws will go ?

for the pariniod ;) if the ID data base gets of the ground you will see insurance companies ofering perks then asking for law changes to check these data bases to prevent fraud against them ect

all because we seem to think they shouldnt have perks Yes MPs get paid more than most of us But against the wages of the big buisnesses they are there to regulate and control they are not on good money for what they do

i for one prefere is is us via taxes who bribe them to stay on our side than let those with more take over that roll

for make no mistake they will still have thier new plasma Tvs and trips to the bahamas who ever pays for it

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I think there is some middle ground between what we have now and what you feel might come to pass Roger and that is where we should be aiming. I think the biggest step towards that is to take away the power to set the rules on expenses and wages for mp's by mp's and give it to an independently accountable body.

No one is saying that mp's shouldn't be entitled to claim expenses but only for things that are strictly job related and are only needed because of the job they do ie no more claiming for shopping or broken appliances. While i understand the defence many are offering that the system allows them to do it it doesn't change the fact that as individuals they could have played the game fairly, even if the rules allowed them to be less then fair and as we are seeing many decided not to do that which says a little about their charector.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

any thing that leaves a gap that outside companies will see a benefit to themselves in filling will be a backward step

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

To me this has the whiff of Mandelson and the spinners about it - "for God's sake show some humanity and humility Gordon or we're all screwed....."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...dian-interview

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/a...w-mps-expenses

Yeah right. Of course you could Gordon..... That'd be why you wont resign or call an election until you're forced to.. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how good it'd be for his children but it'd be great for the rest of us.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8123723.stm

New policies? :rolleyes: Not just a load more populist tripe which will never see the light of day if he stays in power then...

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I'll make a prediction. Badly, and if by some miracle labour manage to cling to power then very badly.

Can't wait for PM's questions this week and Browns latest attempt to evade questions on where the magic pile of cash is coming from for all his plans.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Maybe some of it will come from the partial sale of Royal Mail:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8123530.stm

...which it seems has just joined the growing list of stuff which Brown won't do. reveal or admit to before the election.... I wonder why.. :rolleyes:

Oh and there's more:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6600819.ece

The Dark Lord really does seem to be behaving like a vampiric PM/Chancellor combo these days. Since they've never been at all shy of announcing, reannouncing or even concocting good news, I think it's safe to assume that Mandy thinks revealing anything bearing any resemblence to the awful reality would be political suicide...

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

'No prospect' of postal sell-off...

As with soooooo many things this shabby bunch have promised over the years, it doesn't look like it's going to happen.... :rolleyes: They're so desperate they're making up policy as they go along I reckon.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

GB simply doesn't have the support to get anything through and that makes us a country with a lame duck leader and government. How long he will continue to go on before realising that his time has come and gone only he knows but we will all see the damage by his staying long before he goes.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

If we don't want him as our pm, why don't we get rid of him?
Simple.
This guy wasn't elected by us in the 1st place, 'by us'.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Sounds good in principle, but how would we go about it?

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Gordon Brown is simply driving this government on to the rocks so that he won't have to deal with the consequences of New Labour's mismanagement.

As New Labour are unlikely to be re-elected, he won't admit that cuts are necessary so that he can jeer from the Opposition benches when the Conservatives take the necessary remedial action to correct his mistakes and say that New Labour could have dealt with the crisis without cuts if they had been re-elected.

In his TV conversation with Nick Robinson, it was apparent that he was not actually going to use the word "cuts", instead preferring other words that effectively meant the same thing. Making savings by eliminating "waste" depends on how you define waste so it's possible to reduce vital services and argue that you are not making cuts but reducing waste. Pity this principle does not operate on those at 10 & 11 Downing Street.

If this is Gordon being transparent, I think it must be a political definition of transparency that equates to as clear as mud!

If Winston Churchill was Prime Minister today he would have been open and honest about the crisis faced by the nation and would have given us one of his famed stirring speeches that evoke confidence and the ability to cope.

By comparison, Gordon Brown is a political wimp.

Given that New Labour are not going to do anything until the election and given that whatever date they choose, be it tomorrow or the last day of their term of office, they are unlikely to be elected, it makes sense to hold the election sooner so that the nation's problems can be address promptly.

This is a case of putting country before party because at this rate and under these circumstances there will not be a country to govern.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

That interview worried me. He had the look and mannerisms of someone who knows he is lying and in severe trouble but if he reiterates the same line over and over something will turn up to get him out of trouble.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yes, I agree. A bit like his "Trust me I'm a politician" video on youtube where he appeared to be appealing for support and tried to promote a more positive image of himself.

Sadly, New Labour are all about image and giving false impressions, but lack real substance and the ability to plan for the nations's welfare.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

All i have seen from GB in the last year is a constant string of repeat quotes which he clearly wants us all to believe but his problem is we don't and and don't believe in him. This is a man that has the temerity to talk about honour and integrity in others while being completely absent of it himself.

He will not win the next election and he knows it we all know it but he has coveted that job for so long he cannot give it up even though that is the right course for every single person in his party and the country and i am so not surprised that the labour party have wimped out of doing what is right.

Right now we have a government that is not worried about the country or the people they are worried about themselves and their partys political future and are prepared to throw everything else away trying to sort that mess out.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Has GB turned out to be the Country's worst performing PM within living memory?

I believe he has. There are a notable pair of contenders that immediately come to mind but I believe that both, upon realising that were not up to the job, did the honorable thing and resigned.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Course not and what's more he's always told the truth to the British public!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8129766.stm

:rolleyes:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

I do love it when people with plenty of money tell us that have sod all not to worry about debt shows they really are in touch doesn't it :rolleyes:.

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Yep just as honest as Blier :rolleyes:

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

Brown seems to be in an ever decreasing circle of ministers who are still trying to deny that they'll have to make spending cuts... Now Mandelson has conceded that spending will have to be trimmed in some areas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8150972.stm

Anyway, I heard that Brown might soon be doing his bit for the building industry by having a bunker built... :D

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

The attacks just don't stop do they:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8157047.stm

I reckon Brown will be needing his very own helicopter to get him to his bunker...

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

No they dont :)

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...%2C_MoD_Admits

Re: Brown on the ropes?
 

As long as we have this dead in the water soundbite churning duck we as a country will have nothing but trouble and more and more problems that will affect every single one of us. For the sake of our country and our service people we need to get shot of this bunch as soon as we can what a shame that we have such cowards hiding in london while they nice and safe don't give our people the tools to do the job they dropped them into makes me sick.