Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

13 Years surely David will have it all sorted by august :erm: we will all be living in castles made of solid gold with a moat full of legally killed intruders because Dave said its ok innit to kill emm :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Excellent he gets my vote then :tu: :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I,m being sirius you know oops i mean serious

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

just enough time to fix the problems /bring back the good times -then the flat cap and clog brigade vote labour in to destroy the country again :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I am of the opinion that anyone will be better than Brown - My 4 year old Niece could do a better job than these imbeciles still in power (But not for much longer one can only hope).

"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime". Makes a fantastic headliner - but something these politicians need to grasp urgently - action speaks louder than words.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Always an optimist eh Smurf did use all go to the same school :D i sense a case of housing bubble crash :erm: and it wasn't my fault syndrome amongst a fair few in this country.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

so am i :)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

i'm being a sarcastic old bugger -how am i doing:)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

That motto should be weak on crime tough on the victims of crime. That is how i see it now after Labour sold us down the river without a paddle.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I find it difficult to take you that way , your more of a comedian to me :Dor maybe a agricultural field worker.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

As usual your wrong by a massive margin :)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

You've been reading those fictional New Labour manifestos again haven't you. You know, the ones full of promises still to be delivered..... :D

We'd all have a much better chance of living in castles made of gold if Gordon Brown hadn't sold so much of our national reserves at a knock down price and then proceeded to demolish Sterling.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

:D Does it matter though your just pixels on a screen

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

What a lot of Douglas hurds we got in tonight

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

are those the ones written with a crayon :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

They'd probably have proved more realistic if they had been... :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

:D Use are easy , Its like teasing animals at the zoo.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Nah... we know you're not being serious - nobody could be that stupid.... :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I,m Serious i think thats spelt correctly

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Then I stand corrected :D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Anyone know what Dave's plan is yet, he hasn't said much apart from 'doing nothing' about the recession.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Shockeroonie! Labour have finally decided to stop the early release of prisoners. Maybe they are finally getting a clue. Either that or there is an election coming up...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8528868.stm

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

:rofl:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

If I was Labour. I'd make a lot of prisonable/custodial offences a fineable offence instead.
it'll help with the overcrowding situation, and it will help raise a lot of cash.

the only problem is though. if you can't afford to pay a fine, and you know all that will happen is that you will get fined. you'll be more likely not to give a stuff about the offence and any consequences that may have put you off it in the first place.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Are you joking? - Offenders who get fined now, who have no income because they have no job and are on benefits pay a minimum of £2 a week. Yep, that is really going to raise us a lot of cash.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Yes.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

thank god for that i thought we'd lost you to the liberals:D

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I thought the irony of his post was quite obvious. ;)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Yeah right, so letting them out 18 days ahead of when they were due to leave their already heavily discounted sentence ruins any chance of re-intergration and instead putting a tag on which 99.999999% of offenders will ignore will work instead.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Yet another example of how tough they are:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8530111.stm

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Which would normally mean he hadn't been convicted of anything. Or do you belive in guilty before being proved innocent?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Well it's not unusual for people suspected of involvement in serious offences to be held in custody BEFORE being tried so unless you'd favour a wholesale change in that policy, I'm not sure what your point is. The fact remains that had that been the case here an innocent guy wouldn't be dead!

As regards the concept of innocent until proved guilty, I notice you didn't extend the same generosity you apparently argue for on behalf of murdering **** to Christine Pratt. As far as I'm aware she hasn't been found guilty of anything yet you were only too happy to jump on the bandwagon attacking her. Oh but then, her heinous 'crime' wasn't murder was it, it was disputing your beloved party's statements...

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

As with so many aspects flyboys standards depend whether it is good or bad for labour and the more he posts the more clear that becomes. I would like to know what they guy was on bail for and if it was a violent offence then why he was free to roan about when he was clearly a dangerous individual. But then whats one more dangerous individual on our streets when there are so many some of them shockingly released early as per the policy of our beloved government.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

So no-one should be held on remand then?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

If the evidence was strong enough, i.e. if the police had enough ion him, he would have been remanded in custody. It has nothing to do with sentencing or punishment.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------

Please point to where I said that?

---------- Post added at 15:04 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------

You know what, you really are starting to get quite boring with your attacks at me. Go and play elsewhere.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

That wasn't your argument though was it?

To which I replied that being held prior to trial (i.e. before being convicted of anything as you put it) isn't unusual and had it applied here an innocent man wouldn't be dead at the hands of a thug. You see I have a feeling that all that tough talk on crime we've been subjected to since 1997 hasn't been translated into prison places and I suspect that's more to do with why some people are realsed on bail when they shouldn't be.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Okay, under what circumstances and with what evidence, do you believe he should have been remanded in custody?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Under what circumstances and with what evidence do you believe he should not have been remanded in custody? Oh yes, I recall the nub or your prevuous argument - it was the innocent until proved guilty line wasn't it... :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I have no idea, I have no reason to know, but I see you are still dodging questions. How about answering the question, instead of attempting to pretend that if you ask the same question back, no one will notice you haven't a got a clue what you are talking about.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

That's really rich coming from someone who seemed to think the concept of being innocent until proven guilty precludes the possibility of being remanded in custody and routinely avoids answering questions in these forums, especially when they reveal New Labour's utter ineptitude. We're still all awaiting your thread dedicated to all their successes you know.... :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

For years everyone goes on about tough on crime etc, the basic answer is, the courts, they are far to soft on offenders. When l was a kid, parents and POLICE were allowed to whack kids for being nuaghty with the parents permission, now it has all been stopped, and they are allowed to get away with it, its that simple, When l was at school, you got the cane or the slipper, now they can't do that.

IF people know they will get away with it, they will commit more crime, IF they go to prison, they will learn about how to commit more crime when they come out, so it goes round in a circle.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I don't think it is much of a stretch that this individual was probably on bail for a violent offence given he then went off and killed someone so probably should have been in custody till trial. Sadly there are too many instances in this country of people dying at the hands of people that shouldn't be free in the first place exactly how many does it take before someone in authority actually gets the message because for me one person was one too many.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Sorry,but.....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Apparently in readiness for his biltz on crime cameron is turning into T.Blair esq.

http://www.martintod.org.uk/blog/?cat=32

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

In other words, you have absolutley no evidence that his person should have been remanded in custody, have you?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Why are you defending this person?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I am not defending him whatsoever. What I am debating is the extremism of the knee-jerkers who shout that everyone awaiting trial should be remanded in custody.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Flyboy, I think you'll find that those you accuse of extremism, infact expect that the CJS hold on remand those people alleged to have commited the worst offences. When I say the worst offences I include the likes of murderers, child rapists, rapists and serial fraudsters. I, and I'm sure many other who post on this forum, expect the systems that we pay for, and which is supposed to protect us from the **** of society, to expect said **** to await trial while banged-up, and away from the decent folks.

You on the other hand seem happy to contend that no-one, no matter how serious the crime they are alleged to have commited, should ever be held on remand. I just hope that no-one you care about ever has anything really bad done to them. I'm sure at that point your liberal attitude will change....

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Flyboy "debating the Extremism of knee jerkers" :rofl: :rolleyes: You wasted no time jumping on the women who dared to make a claim about bullying within No.10. How very tolerant.... :rolleyes: You defend the rights and freedoms of some people to the hilt but when it comes to those whose politics and views differ from yours (like certain Dutch MPs for example) that tolerance seems to disappear in a puff of red smoke. I suggest you are a 'knee-jerker' and a far more politically motivated and blinkered one than I ever will be.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...na-Burton.html

So commit any crime you like and blame it on the drugs and you'll walk. Stealing charity tins is the lowest of the low and I reckon he should be getting a few months compulsary drugs rehab at Her Majesties pleasure.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I hate to tell you, but there are just as many drugs in the prisons as there are out. Someone I know works in a prison and that's who told us that one of the biggest problems is trying to control the amount of drugs going into the prisons and let's not forget, if someone goes in hooked on heroin, they are not forced to go cold turkey, nope, they are entitled to copious amounts of methadone to "cope" with their addiction/illness. What a joke!!!!

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

While some people that commit crimes that pose no threat to society at all shouldn't be held on remand anyone who commits a crime of violence of any sort or someone who routinely commits crime imo should be held on remand awaiting their trial. I don't see that as knee jerk or unreasonable and the reason it isn't happening is despite the fact that they have been in government for thirteen years overseen a large increase in the population of the country labour has failed to buil d sufficient prisons to accomadate those who commit crime.

This has led to a lot of people that shouldn't have been being let out many reoffending and some of them killing people. Right now the cjs in the uk is not fit for purpose does not protect the public and does not adequately punish those who commit crime. We the law abiding public have a right to expect punishment when a crime is committed and for that punishment to fit the crime, but all we get is endless tales of human rights violations for people that before being caught didn't give a stuff about human rights.

We have been and continue to be weak in dealing with those amongst our society who feel no obligation or commitment to abide by societys rules and will at any oppurtunity abuse and injure people for self gain. Enough is enough and the system must change and deal adequately with law breakers because if it continues not too as much as i detest the idea vigiliantism will start to rear it's ugly head and enjoy support from the majority.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Oh believe me I know, still withdrawal from opiates does not kill you.
I wouldn't be adverse to people with heroin addiction being popped into solitary for a week or so until they provide a clean drugs test then let them mix with the rest of the prison population till their sentence is up.

Of course any further positive tests result in another trip to cold turkey land.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

What is wrong with being intolerant of bigots and racists?

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

So are you now saying that the public expectation (and lets remember that the board members here are members of the Great British Public), that violent criminals, awaiting trail, should be kept behind bars, are in fact a bunch of bigots and racists ? Cause that seems to be exactly what you are intimating of the people (including myself) that have posted in this thread, expecting to be protected from those awaiting trial for the worst crimes. Instead of the CJS allowing the worst criminals to continue to predate on the law abiding public....

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Earl god knows i am no flyboy fan but i think that comment was in relation to Osem's bit about dutch politician m8 not a general comment on this thread and those who have posted :).

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

If thats the case Rizzy, then Flyboy needs to learn to qualify, and/or put his statements in context. Otherwise he'll find himself red dotted, and possibly have his post reported....

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Seeing as you were the only one who had a problem with understanding the obvious, I doubt that would happen. Seeing as my post contained the pertinant quote from another poster, I am amazed that anyone at all missed the relevance of my remarks.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Yet you miss the point entirely Flyboy.... In post 347 you said

Then only a couple of posts later. You equate board members who expect the CJS to place people accused of serious and violent crimes in prison, to Geert Wilders and the head of a bullying charity (who may or may not have a political axe to grind against Liebour/Gordon Brown). Thus there is a direct link between your posts, that link being your definition of extremism.... Which seems to be anyone with a different opinion to yours.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I think you lost the flow of the exchange somewhere and who wrote what and when. I did not invoke any examples of tolerating extremism at all, that was another poster.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

As usual you dodge and weave, but fail to defect....

I have neither misquoted, nor misunderstood your previous posts. As a matter of fact, I've gone back an read, and re-read the tripe you've posted over that last 4 or 5 pages, and it follows your usual form of posting.

You talk balls. Refuse to respond when asked direct questions, and after 8 - 12 posts hint that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an extremist, bigot or racist....

I truly thank the stars I don't know you in Real Life, as I'm quite sure listening to you hold forth would be like standing under a torrent of verbal excrement....

On that note, welcome to my ignore list. Your digital excrement is no longer worthy of my time.... :2up:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Nope, you still did not read it properly, did you? I did not say that anyone who disagrees with me is a bigot, I said, "what is wrong with being intolerant of bigots and racists?" when someone referred to a Dutch MP. But if you wish to only interpret posts the way you want to, to satisfy your own opinions, be my guest.

Just having briefly reviewed my contributions to this thread, apart from a disagreement with a poster who thought they were an expert on particular medical condition, I cannot see anywhere I may missed a question, perhaps you could point them out to me and if I have missed any and they are still relevant I will do my best to answer them.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Back to something remotely resembling the topic now.

It's all OK though, Gordo has decided he'll sort things out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8541963.stm

Some highlights.

Thats just after he said he had removed all targets apart from public confidence. So now all the Police can do is influence how people think and not what actually happens.

Suuuuuuurrrrrrrreeeeeee. Maybe if you have an armed bodyguard around you 24/7

So when they breach it and fail to comply with community service etc. and finally get the jail where will they go? The countries prisons are already creaking at the seams and the 'not at all a political ploy' ending of early release just before the election will make matters even worse.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Make your mind up, you either want criminals to stay in prison, or you don't.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I do. I think they should serve at least 3/4 of their sentence and any early release should be based on the risk of them re-offending and their behaviour in prison rather than getting out regardless.

I do object to blatantly political announcements that early release will be binned and things will be toughened up when its obvious to everyone that there is not enough prison places.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

how much political mileage will GB get out of this ;)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

:banghead:

What does it take to get someone the jail these days.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-spree.html

I'd have loved to see the judge immediately jail him for a couple of years for contempt for that little outburst. :mad:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Absolutely and scandalously unbelievable.

The Judge wants locking up too, maybe in a padded cell.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

With things like this, I'll bet you sometimes wonder why you bother catching them in the first place.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

We probably cannot send them to prison as there are no spaces for them to go too thanks to a complete lack of planning on the part of government. Trouble is as more and more walk from serious things the more those on the borderline of criminality will be inclined to chance their luck making the problem spiral even further. Completely stupid position to be in and someone in charge should hang their head in shame at what is happening.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

That's the trouble Rizzy, there is no one in charge in this Administration.

When the excrement hits the spinning thing it is always someone elses responsibility.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Hell we have all sussed that if evasion to reality raised money this country wouldn't need taxation :).

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Their usual pre-election garbage! Heard it all many times before from Bliar and the steady stream of tough talking serial underachievers otherwise known as New Labour Home Secretaries.

Rumour has it that Brown was considering another nice new slogan for the forthcoming election:

"Things can only get better...."

...until someone reminded him that they've been in power for 13 years...

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Come on how can we expect labour to be tough on crime when their own party leader and our pm lies as easily as he does and evades anything he doesn't like. His evidence at chillcott was as criminal as it gets and only he believes what he said during that questioning.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Not quite true - there are one or two around here who're still buying it... ;)

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Tut, tut, tut

It seems Labours claims that we are living in a utopia and crime simply doesn't happen anymore might not be the truth (I know Labour misleading the public over figures, what are the odds? :rolleyes: )

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-revealed.html

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Now there's a surprise..... :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Labour fiddling the figures and misleading the public no never not this whiter then white bunch we elected these bastions of truth and honesty.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8560720.stm

More than a decade later, this will be all that "zero tolerance" in action then...:rolleyes:



---------- Post added at 17:00 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/8561513.stm

:mad:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Lives are indeed cheaper than being "Tough On Crime".

Lives are indeed cheaper than giving the troops proper equipment.

Nothing ever changes. :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

The difference with this case than others recently is the police can't be accused of doing nothing.

They are also the ones that installed the CCTV cameras.

There's no point having thre resources and speeding them if there is no way to secure a conviction. The system should be changed in such a way that anti-social behavior can be successfully tackled/prosecuted.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

From what I've read of the case plenty of the troublemakers had been prosecuted a number of times and a number of them had ASBO's handed out.

Of course as anyone with half a brain knows ASBO's are pretty much useless and are seen as a bit of joke by the feral yobs inhabiting certain chunks of the UK just now.

If you can walk away from a £2mil fraud, arson, glassing someone in a pubfight or battering your girlfriend then smashing her phone and driving whilst disqualified with a suspended sentence what is really going to be done for chucking some eggs at a window?

Any defence lawyer will be able to talk away pretty much anything as a one-off and a light tap on the wrist will probably be all they'll get.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

It wasn't the police doing nothing that was the problem here - it was the failure of all the relevant authorities (for whatever reason) to do something effective about the sort of longstanding antisocial behaviour that this poor man was subjected to and that there's supposed to be a zero tolerance of.

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

There's been an arrest:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...er/8563454.stm

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I expect someone, somewhere, will learn even more lessons from this. :rolleyes:

It's a crying shame that all this lesson learning that we hear so much about is, seemingly, never put into practice. :(

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

No lessons will be learned until the people in positions of responsibility in public offices that fail the public, get put to the sword for their failings.... We do seem to be living in a no win, no fee society. People want the position and the pay, but not the responsibility for their, and their employees failings....

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I think in cases like this the council should play a bigger part in it. if the offenders are council tenants they should have their tenancy put at risk.
not just a threat but a real risk that doesn't have to drag on through the courts to decide whether it will upset the tenants too much in losing their home.

Tough On Crime, Tough On The Causes Of Crime
 

Unbelievable, rob some ones house and you'd get less of a punishment, well perhaps not but to lose your job, be fined a £150 and get a criminal record over biscuit theft beggers belief, good to see we have a shortage of real criminals these days if the court has enough time spare to deal with the likes of this


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/briton-sa...9.html?from=tn

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I've merged this into the existing tough on crime thread.

Yep pretty unbelievable it ever got this far but you'll see more and more of these cases with the crime recording standards and the CPS having to hit targets they'll prosecute easy cases which should have been binned.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Unfortunately Gary councils were given a lot of powers to deal with anti social behaviour, but from the news reports and my own experience on the whole they seem useless, despite the tenancy conditions they could use to evict these people they seem to pussy foot around, and come up with excuse after excuse.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

It is entirely possible that there are other factors here to consider. Perhaps there was a history of things going missing, when this person was on duty? There may have been a history of interpersonal issues with this employee that culminated in the theft.

If any of my employees did such a thing, I would have issued a warning, but if it persisted, I may have been forced to take the same steps this company did. There was a similar incident a couple of years ago, where a female employee was harassing another employee. There was nothing that I could specifically discipline the person on, because the victim would not make a complaint, so I did my best to reduce the impact on her as much as I could. In the end I was able to dismiss her her for criminal damage of the others property. Fortunately she was witnessed by another colleague and this person spoke up. I offered the victim our full support if she wanted to take the matter further, i.e. involve the police, but despite my encouragement for her to do so, she felt the matter had now come to a conclusion and was happy to have no more issues with the now former colleague.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Cheers Derek I knew I had seen this thread before and even checked for it to no avail.

With regard to the rest of your post, as long as crime is falling eh :rolleyes:

It isn't and we aren't fooled by the crap our glorious leaders are peddeling

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

And then again perhaps there wasn't

No mention of previous things going missing

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...agues-biscuits

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

I only good thing that comes out with articles like this, is that inmates take a dim view of things like this, and the first chance an inmate gets, they will take there chance, and give them a good hiding, its called ' public justice ' and is welcomed by the public.

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

Until they realise the prisoner on the receiving end will sue and to avoid this normally gets a couple of grand to drop the case. :rolleyes:

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"
 

not sure about "welcomed by the public" we know it happens but are prepared to let it go because it doesn't threaten the general public while they are locked up ,it's when they are released with the same vigilante attitude that the problems start

Re: "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"