Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

It all comes down to my old favourite-choice (or lack of it) from ntl.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

AFAIK Demon is owned by the Thus group who are making an operating loss.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Firstly :welcome: to CF Wombat :)

I have the same problem - things update, I download stuff, I browse, I stream and it all increases my usage. But as you say, none of it is my fault - perhaps we could join forces and find the real culprit for us clicking on things?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I`m a customer and I`m extremely happy ;-)
2 years of trouble free broadband!!

Well Done NTL

PS. No I dont work for NTL lol

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Irrelevant whats relevant is they offer it what he stated above. Like I said profit isnt everything.

Summary of questions unanswered by ntl staff/shareholders at this point.

How do telewest manage to offer unmetered services on higher speeds using the same technology?

What is the average use of 1.5mbit ntl broadband customers only?

Does NTL broadband sector subsidise their TV sector?

Why dont NTL staff/shareholders pass on feedback to senior staff at NTL who have the power to make decisions on the new packages instead of telling people to go away?

Does NTL consider someone who uses a high amount of traffic but buys premium tv/phone packages a liability and prefers to lose that customer and possibly others who he warns away from NTL?

Is the install fee free permanently?

Whats the average customer rentention period?

Why do NTL refuse to consider alternative ways of making money and kurbing 24/7 leechers? (one example if the option was there I would pay £3 a month to not use transperent proxies)

:)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Out of interest, has it occurred to you that ntl may well monitor and respond to various feedback on forums such as this, and Staff may well feed opinions & suggestions back up the chain of command, where they consider it salient?

Furthermore, has it occured to you that constant insiduous griping is recognised and overlooked , because if it is perceived that ill-informed, speculative, self important prodders that have nothing to add to improve things, but follow some personal agenda, run the risk of having anything worthwhile they may have proposed ignored.

Also, I am sure it is unlikely that any commercial organisation would release sensitive information on current & proposed services just because someone posts a list of questions.

I am sure you will take my comments no more personally than anyone who may be involved in the various aspects of ntl will have taken any of yours.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Why is it irrelevant? Demon are owned by the Thus group. Thus group are making losses, some of which can probably be traced to Demon.

Regarding your profit statement. While I do agree profit isn't everything it is rather important to any company.
Based on what I have read on this forum (mainly from Ignition, but from other sources too), Telewest are able to offer the increased speeds because they run their equipment past it's maximum limits. They also have a smaller network, not all of which will be able to offer the increased speeds.

I don't know your browsing/downloading habits, but I suspect the amount it would cost NTL would far exceed the £3 a month from each user if they offered the option to not use transparent proxies. These proxies are their to minimise network use, therefore reduce costs.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Nikko

if only i could rep you twice. :). Please except a green one for a well put together post. :tu:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

"Why is it irrelevant? Demon are owned by the Thus group. Thus group are making losses, some of which can probably be traced to Demon.

Regarding your profit statement. While I do agree profit isn't everything it is rather important to any company."

Well it may be important but it obviously isnt essential otherwise demon wouldnt be still around after many years of operation.

"Based on what I have read on this forum (mainly from Ignition, but from other sources too), Telewest are able to offer the increased speeds because they run their equipment past it's maximum limits. They also have a smaller network, not all of which will be able to offer the increased speeds."

Only thing I read is ignition saying he couldnt say due to NDA agreement, but if telwest were running equipment past limit's wouldn't users notice with reduced speeds and increased pings? doesnt seem to be the case, do you know this or is it an accusation.

"I don't know your browsing/downloading habits, but I suspect the amount it would cost NTL would far exceed the £3 a month from each user if they offered the option to not use transparent proxies. These proxies are their to minimise network use, therefore reduce costs."

Well I tend to probably mainly browse forums and news sites and I usually do it a few times a day for around an hour at a time as an average, but it wouldnt hurt ntl much, because my pc caches images and only data that changes will need to be download which is usually just text.

"Furthermore, has it occured to you that constant insiduous griping is recognised and overlooked , because if it is perceived that ill-informed, speculative, self important prodders that have nothing to add to improve things, but follow some personal agenda, run the risk of having anything worthwhile they may have proposed ignored."

Depends how you see it, I have spent a fair bit of time coming up with sensible questions as to why I cant expect the same service as my friend gets in liverpool, if someone did send feedback to ntl I am sure they would have posted on here saying so, and then knowing thats the case I would have no need to repeat simple questions.

I would like to know what my agenda is, is it wanting a package to suit my needs of a decent quality of service. I got no evil agenda to remove ntl from this planet dont worry, I am worried why you feel so threatened by my questions. I wonder how you would feel if things were the other way, ntl dropped the bottom 2 tiers and there was only 1 package at £50 a month which was unmetered take it or lump it, I bet you would be here saying why should I pay £50 for the 1 gig I use a month.

I will justfiy the questions I asked.

"How do telewest manage to offer unmetered services on higher speeds using the same technology?"
Telewest users I know dont suffer from poor quality service and have better pings then me, they also have a higher burst speed and no traffic limit, I feel I have the right to ask how ntl cannot match it.

"What is the average use of 1.5mbit ntl broadband customers only?"
Igniion and a few others have repeatedly thrown stats at us which favour low usage customers saying that 95% of users dont go over 6 gig a month, my gripe is I bet most of this 95% are on the bottom tier and as such are not going to use a lot anyway and pay less money then me, how can someone on the top tier be compared to such stats, so I simply asked the average usage of users paying 37.99 a month. Seems I have to assume its much higher since the questioned has scared you.

"Does NTL broadband sector subsidise their TV sector?"
I have heard from a friend who used to work for ntl that at the time he was working there their tv sector was making a loss and the broadband sector was making what they called a handsome profit and the company was trying to make the broadband offset the tv losses, I was simply trying to see if this is true.

"Why dont NTL staff/shareholders pass on feedback to senior staff at NTL who have the power to make decisions on the new packages instead of telling people to go away?"
Again as said above this would go along way of making me feel more satisfied, how many times have you been to a shop asking for something they dont stock and got told to fob off, probably never in all likelyhood the shop would probably try to get the item you after for you, or politely apologise. Here people having a problem with whats on offer simply seems to offend staff, not quite sure why I have no personal gripes with anyone here.

"Does NTL consider someone who uses a high amount of traffic but buys premium tv/phone packages a liability and prefers to lose that customer and possibly others who he warns away from NTL?"
Asked this question because of remarks made by staff/shareholders saying if you not satisfied go elsewhere.

"Is the install fee free permanently?"
Well, ntl staff/shareholders seem to be making a claim ntl are barely making a profit and need to cap to remain profitable but are willing to throw money away on new probable short term customers. I think most people expect to pay a setup fee for broadband, all ADSL providers charge it most of the year so it wouldnt scare anyone off.

"Whats the average customer rentention period?"
True indication of customer staisfaction levels, having more customers joining then leaving doesnt mean they satisfied, the uk population is growing so its not that hard to achieve but what is harder to achieve is keeping customers beyond their 1 year contract. Have a average 5 year retention? then tell me and put me in my place.

"Why do NTL refuse to consider alternative ways of making money and kurbing 24/7 leechers? (one example if the option was there I would pay £3 a month to not use transperent proxies)"
Same reason as install fee question but also trying to throw ideas the direction of the people who are in a position to pass on views to senior ntl decision makers. I have seen a few isp's asking customers what they would want that they dont provide I cant see what negative impact it could possibly cause ntl.

I hope I have kept my remarks constructive enough and people have the time to read.

Thanks

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Sorry if I gave that impression, if you check a few pages previous you'll see that I answered this question by explaining that Telewest did a massive resegmentation and upgrade program a couple of years ago before going into bankruptcy protection.

Purely my opinion, but sadly I don't think that the powers that be in ntl are or have accorded the HFC network the respect it deserves, far more so that Telewest due to ntl being a larger company with more and much larger non-HFC networks and interests.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I very seriously doubt that Demon is making a loss. Demon has been around for over ten years. Companies that make a loss don't last long. Also, if they are making a loss now, they have no hope for the future since they apparently can't make a profit from an averagely priced service.

I think the reason Demon are able to offer what the do is because Demon has always been well run from a technical point of view. Reading their customer bulletins and going by the fact that when I was on them for 3+ years they had about three days of intermittant email access and no other problems makes me think they know what they are doing. I'm not suggesting NTL engineers are totally incompetant (although by the number of call-outs I've had, you might think so), more that it just seems like Demon got the technology right from day one and so don't have any major network or capacity issues. Plus, they don't seem afraid to spend money on upgrades when needed.

Oh, and before you start about how rubbish Demon are:

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/isps/com...action=Compare

http://www.demon.net/helpdesk/networkstatus/

Check out the second one, Message of the Day and Service Announcements. Very few problems, and when there are issues they get fixed within HOURS. It's hard to even report problems to NTL, Demon actually give you an email address and bother to read it.

It's a shame NTL has to dump it's problems on it's customers, rather than fixing them.

Capping - What is it?
 

If as promised our BB connection are increased this spring, capping is being introduced. For us greenhorns out here, what exactly is it. Does it refer to downloading as in file downloads eg. music, P to P etc. or is it an accumulation of all data involved in web browsing. Please explain what it is and what happens when you reach your limit for the month.

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

Accumulation of all data as far as I know but other members may have the full answer for you.
You are set a monthly limit for traffic and when you hit it NTL will monitor how much extra you use and if you regularly breach the cap by massive ammounts they would bill you for the extra bandwidth used or suggest you increase your package tier.

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

All data, apart from system overhead - certainly, browsing text, images, collecting email will all count.

What happens - nobody knows yet ... the only thing that WILL happen, is this thread will be closed or merged!

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

There's more info here on the cap and what it will mean:
http://www.ntlworld.com/service_update.html

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

If you currently subscribe to the 750 package as I do, the new package will be 2M with a 20 Gig cap is that correct. If so for ordinary users, say those that only browse and email, perhaps occasionally DL some music. How many hours would that equate to, or would it not affect that type of user, only those that regularly use Kazaar, eMule etc.
Sorry I replied before I saw the last thread.

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

Just what I've always wanted...yet another cap thread!

Re: Capping - What is it?
 

Bandwidth capping really shouldn't affect people that only browse and download updates, you would have to move some very large files on a regular basis to impact your allowance ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I do not think the point to all this is wether or not we should have a cap.

I think the main point is for the caps to reflect more realistically the speed of service to each customer.

And for 3MB to be capped at 40GB p/m is quite simply not high enough for many people.

The whole point of having a fast connection is to download huge files quickly. If all you are going to do is surf the web and look at emails then you really do not need anything more than a 512 connection..... You can only load a web page so fast ! ! !


If we take out downloading illegal films etc..... There are many legal options out there. You could download movies from divx for a monthly fee.
There are also talks of downloading complete dvd's as apposed to renting them. So you pay NTL for the connection, you then pay a rental company to download/rent movies...........But oh you can't coz you hit your cap with your last film ! !

The simple answer is if you cannot give unlimited bandwidth on you highest tier then at the very least you should try to offer a wider variety of packeges??

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Thanks for explanation, in fact I remember reading this before I sorry I forgot you mentioned it. Yes that is quite a crafty move by telewest sounds like they got some upgrading done on credit and then got themselves out of paying the full cost.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You are not really in a position to complain, because you are on a residential service, when you should be on a business one (which is obviously more expensive)

http://business.ntl.com

:welcome: to the site btw. :)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Beat me to it ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Or ADSL. But let's talk about the business lines for a moment. The broadband lite service is listed at £25/month for 750k, with £90 installation. Doesn't mention caps, but it does mention 24/7 business support which is presumably similar to residential support but without the queues. You get more web space and email addresses too (do their have separate, working email servers?). Oh, and you get a free domain!

What's the catch? Surely it can't be the same as the residential service for the same price? Maybe it's £25 not including VAT? Does that if we pay £29 we can get an uncapped service? Or do you need some kind of ultra expensive business line?

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Who knows? :shrug:

As per usual, the ntl website is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard when it comes to having the info that you need. :rolleyes:

Perhaps the helpful info section is "Coming Soon"!? :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Shame, 'cos it's kinda useful info to have. If you can get an uncapped service with a free domain name, working email and premium support for £4 extra a month I think quite a few people might be interested in that.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You would probably need to supply your registered V.A.T number too I would guess.....

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Never heard so much crap for a long time, residental or business you have a right to complain. Business users dont pay more for a right to complain they pay more for lower contention, right to use for commercial purposes, better support, possibly a SLA, possibly increased traffic limit if any in place. There probably is other stuff as well. Unfortenatly I work in the internet industry which kind of stuff's up ntl's argument as I know the game they are playing.
____________

Be careful what you say although I know you are not a true representative of NTL I am sure 'Fair Trading' wont take too lightly a company saying that a customer has no right to complain.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Oh dear.....

As you work in the "Internet Industry", you will no doubt be aware of the following then.....

There is no right to complain when you are using a residential service for business purposes-it is also against the T's & C's.

Taken from: http://www.home.ntl.com/page/termsresidential

So you see, it's nothing like the "load of crap" that you tried to make out it was. :nono:

I know what I'm talking about when it comes to ntl, & even if it weren't ntl, the fact still remains that if you are using a residential connection for business purposes, you are in no position to complain.

You pays your money, you takes your choice, but working in the "Internet Industry" you'd know that wouldn't you?

Errrrr.....no!

I am not any sort of representative of ntl. :rolleyes:

Yeah....ok...whatever.

What on earth are you talking about??

Do you think that I am/I work for ntl? :rofl:

You need to pay attention a little closer methinks! :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

A little off topic here but still kinda in line with the caps.......

Would it be possible to have 2 cable lines from NTL and maybe "Bond" them like adsl companies do....Say like Nildrim??

If this is not possible could you have 2 separate lines to 2 separate pc's??

I am guessing the answers to these would be no but just thought I would make sure.....

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ok, go to Trading Standards (as it is actually called), tell them that you were running a business on a residential service, the service failed, you lost trade as a result, and you wish them to investigate why the company wouldn't compensate you.

Go and try that tomorrow, and see what they say.

If you use a residential service with ANY company for business purposes, you're on your own.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

:rofl:

I can just imagine it:

Customer: "I'd like to report NTL for bad service."
Trading Standards: "What happened?"
Customer: "Well, I was trying to run a business using my NTL home account and the connection failed."
Trading Standards: "Good bye."

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Awww c'mon guys, play fair, it might have been an innocent mistake on Chrysallis's part and he really thought he was paying for the business connection ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Would that be the one from centrica ;):angel:
____________


:spin: :rofl: Boy as this just made my day for me :tu:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Guys I think you have really lost the plot.

point me to a post that says I think I am paying for a business connection.

You now are so desperate that you have resorted to attacking me (I dont care shows how low you have stooped to)

"Customer: "I'd like to report NTL for bad service."
Trading Standards: "What happened?"
Customer: "Well, I was trying to run a business using my NTL home account and the connection failed."
Trading Standards: "Good bye.""

O_O

Well its news to me I am trying to run a business on my connection, again you guys really are stooping low.

I run a hosting service from 100mbit lines that have nothing to do with NTL. GET WITH IT!!!!

Here is my joke.

Customer "Hi I just tried to watch some hdtv of a service I subscribed but all of a sudden my internet stopped working"
NTL rep "Hold on sir let me check if all is ok with your account"
NTL rep "IT seems you have hit your 40 gig limit for this month sir, you will have to wait until next month or we can change you over to a business line service"
Customer "But I dont run a business I just watch hdtv and download my linux iso's for my code development"
NTL rep "Then sir we must ask you to leave and cease your service with us, you are the type of customer we dont want, we are here to profit of every SINGLE customer and are greedy you must understand this sir"
Customer "Umm ok, good bye"
NTL rep "Goodbye sir"

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Would it be possible for someone from/who knows the business side to post info like for example does it matter if your a person off the street or do you need to be a business. Do you get put on a seperate box somehow away from residential customers? Is there any Cap whatsoever? IS there a SLA for downtime?


All them sort of things, Im sure if people have the info, maybe more might jump onto that even if the cost is a little higher...

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

haha that sounds about right :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You think? :spin:

*Gets comfortable*

Whoops-isn't that business related!? :nono:

Looks like it's you that is looking for the plot.....

I've got here, it's safe & sound so don't you worry about that nasty little plot hiding from you all the time! :p:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

As far as I can see, no-one is saying that you can't complain .... everyone has that right.

The problem is that you are complaining about doing something that NTL already state they don't support.

Running a business, or even connecting to a business network, using VPN's etc are not something that NTL endorse.

If you do use any of the above, as I do, then you are bound by the terms and conditions of the residential contract you signed. It is designed for home users of the internet, not for business use. The restrictions imposed on the residential connections are not apparent on business connections.

The use of a residential connection is subject to those restrictions and as NTL can restrict or take down the service as they wish.

What you are doing is using a residential connection for business purposes, and if you complain about the affect it is having on your business, the Trading Standards and other similar organisations will NOT support your complaint.

I strongly suggest you re-read the Terms and conditions of the residential broadband connection you have.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Or re-read my post from earlier: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...&postcount=328 :)

In fairness to Chrysalis, it is not him/her that has the home working issue, he/she was just commenting on a post made by someone who does work from home whom I made a reply 2 a couple of pages back.

But the fact still remains that Chrysalis still got the end of the stick IMO, & whatever way you look at it-those who pay for a residential connection but use it for business can't complain.

Look at it like this-if you were to fly to the USA on a business trip, but chose to fly in the normal cabin that most people do, & you needed to do work on your laptop for example en route, what would then happen if you didn't have enough room to work on your laptop, or when you had finished you couldn't lay down/stretch out for a nice little kip ready for your meeting in New York, or you weren't getting the benefits (read support) that people in Business Class were getting?

You see where I'm going now Chrysalis?

It really is very simple-if you (read anyone) want support for your business when using your ntl BB connection, then subscribe to a business connection, if not (as I said earlier), then you (read anyone) have no right to complain. :)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well i took the advice of the people who told us "if you dont like it go elsewhere".
So i get 2meg adsl with nildram on the 24th. It suits my needs even tho its dearer than the 3meg at NTL will be. Theres a lot of support for ntl on here, some of it bordering on fanatical. Then theres the guys that work for them that really do help out, they come here, read the posts, take action and probably never get any reward.
I was going to wait until all this was sorted, but to tell you the truth i'm not going to be pushed into a corner.
I hope my connection with Nildram is as good as this one has been in the last 2\half years.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

People have a right to complain but dont whine to us about it. Speak to NTL and if you don't like it LEAVE!

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Good move IMO. :tu:

It's all about consumer choice, & that is something that ntl need to learn.

Most ISPs I believe offer a capped & an uncapped service, so they give you the choice. This, I believe is the way forward, being arrogant & forcing your customers onto a particular product line is just plain wrong IMO (in exactly the same way that ntl force you to take their phone line if you want their DTV :td: )

You also make some good points about the ntl staff that post here to help out, & don't get paid. :)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Do you ever get out of bed on the right side?
Comments like that can be really inflammatory. :erm:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I will not tell you again. Please do not tell others what to do on this board, you are not a member of the team and thus are in no position to dictate to others what they can and cannot post here.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

So you think it is constructive moaning on here about it? Surely speaking to NTL would be much more constructive.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Following on from the OP's decision to post here, he/she has now taken the advice given & got him/herself an ADSL line.

Seeing as ntl would not support his/her issue if 'cap breaking' whilst using his/her residential connection, the OP has taken their business to someone who will support it.

So posting here has been more constructive than speaking to ntl, yes.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just because you might not be eager to listen other peoples problems and issues doesn't mean everybody is the same as you. This may of escaped your attention but this is a discussion forum, where members come to discuss feedback and post issues with their ntl service. So stop telling others who have issues, to keep quiet about them on here. Thanks.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

People speak very highly of Nildram and I believe you get a significantly higher GB allowance per month than NTL currently view as acceptable. I personally will be sticking with NTL until they force me to leave!

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

How can it be constructive this is a cable resource web site? Not "If you have a problem use ADSL". Surely everyone getting together and making their voices heard would be more constructive.
____________

I am interesting in peoples problems and issues but when people just carry on saying the same thing for months going round and round in circles, I start to find it serious.

On the whole the people who have issues in this topic are not looking for advice/help/etc. They are just wanting to have a moan for the sake of it.

Im really starting to love the "im not downloading warez/mp3's/etc, im just downloading linux".

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Likewise, until I'm forced out I'm staying put. If NTL offered me a 512k uncapped service for £23 a month (like most ADSL providers) I'd stay a customer of theirs indefinately. They've already lost my TV custom, it's up to them if they want to lose my broadband custom aswell.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think the member you was telling to 'stop moaning' was trying to be constructive on here. In anycase I am not sitting here holding this particular discussion with you so please allow for this thread to get back on topic. Thanks.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yada yada yada, no one seems to have been able to answer any of my questions yet, like how Demon somehow continue to exist or if I can get a business service to my house for an extra £4/month. I am about to try to contact NTL about the business thing, and will report back.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just order it and say you have a small business at your address.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Most people on the forum are busy you know. It can take time for some to answer every single question that is fired at them, be patient.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Many companies still exist even though they may be unprofitable. Some of these may have changed hands once or twice for different reasons. Just because Demon still exists doesn't mean that it is profitable. NTL and TW still exist and look at the financial history of those.
____________

There are details about NTL Business at http://business.ntl.com/product_solu...band/index.php

Broadband Lite (single user) †“ 1.5Mb for only £34.99 a month!
Broadband (multi user/network) †“ 1.5Mb for only £89.99 a month
Broadband (multi user/network) †“ 750K for only £59.99 a month
Broadband Lite (single user) - 750K for only £24.99 a month!

These alll have a 24 month contract

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

http://www.thus.co.uk/pdf/tpr2004-11-15a.pdf
Demon - the internet brand from Thus
If you read this statement it talks of profit 0 times.
It talks of customer retention
EBIDTA, Turnover, Debt Reduction and Cashflow.
Thus lost 29M in the 6 months to 30/09/04.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Erm, I am slightly surprised you thought I was attacking you. I wasn't. My point was that you appeared to be encouraging the person who posted that the cap would affect their business. I was trying to point out that, as this use is against the terms and conditions of service, trading standards would not actually do anything.


As you stated, where NTL has failed a consumer, that consumer has the right to complain. He or she also has the right to go elsewhere if he or she should decide to.

Fair enough, although I never said you were running a business from your connection.

Very funny. Have NTL announced what they will do if you go over your limit? AFAIK they have not, but were looking at charging extra for those that go over, not just blindly cutting people off.
____________


I use VPN to connect to my work network. When the old Pace box I had started crashing whenever I used VPN, I phoned NTL to report a fault, I was told that use of VPN was tolerated but not supported on home connections.

Luckily, the Samsung box I now have has no trouble with it.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Nildram have no d\load limit at all, so as you can see, i'm happier to pay more for a "slower " [if you like] service just so as i dont have to watch what i, or my kids, do.
I tried ringing ukonline about there 8meg [i'm in range at the exchange and can get it] but couldnt get through at 5 attempts. That sort of made me wonder if its hard to sign up, whats the after sales\support like?
That and Nildram are spoken of pretty highly.
Hopefully one day NTL might want my custom "back", and to be honest with you i would "re-join" as and when i dont have to worry.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

To neil and others thanks for explaining your comments, and yes I understand what you said.

21. Residential Use Only

The Services and the Equipment are only provided under this Agreement for residential customers and for residential use only. The Services or any part of them cannot be sold for money or monies worth.

We have no liability, whether due to our negligence or otherwise, for any losses incurred by any business, trade or profession carried on by you or any other person using the Services or the Equipment.

Ok, I use my connection for personal use, there is 1 link to my company with my connection and that is I connect to my servers using it, NTL has never caused me loss of earning's but if it ever did happen then I wouldnt try and hold them to it I understand the residental usage part.

I also admit if I was helping someone to claim on a business use for a residental line I was wrong. :)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

If People are chucking Teddy's around on what might come in, think what the threads will be like when/if they do put something in writing..

*Waits for the next round of "Its a Cap Jim but not as we know it"

Honeslty Best advice (and it has been said 100000 times) Just wait and see what happens before getting the Uzi's Out !!

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Its hard to just wait and see what happen's I just wished NTL didnt make the announcement until they were actually ready to follow their talk with the walk, what was a PR stunt was short lived and over shadowed by both telewest and ukonline and now they have the humiliation of nothing happening almost 3 months after the announcement.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Patience is a virtue.

It was not a PR stunt, upgrades will be in place, as announced, in the first quarter of 2005.

Regardless of when this was mooted, this means up to the end of March. There are 9+ weeks to go.

So where, exactly, is the humiliation in this?

I am not yet sure if you are deliberately posting to be irritating, or whether your somewhat abrasive and controversial style is purely unintentional, but either way it is just beginning to get up my nose.

Once again its not a personal dig, just a statement of fact as I see it.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well I am posting just to say my point of view, I believe when this type of announcement is made you make it when you are actually doing what you are announcing not months before. To me it seems they intended to reap the benefits of the announcement a few months before they spend any money actually doing the upgrade's, and if you tell me they are doing the upgrades right now to prepare for it then I think they should have waited until the preparations are done, then there would be no expectations no wondering whats going to happen and nothing to complain about.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think there's nothing to complain about anyway. They announced it would happen in the 1st Quarter of 2005. I personally think it's a good idea to let customers know your intentions/plans rather than, for example, me jump to ADSL only to find a few months later that I would have been better of with NTL 'cos they were about to upgrade me to a better speed.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

It's the same old story with ntl. BT informed their customers of change, around the same time, and it's already been carried out. Telewest too. ntl are slow, always have been, always will be. Chrysalis you're totally right, they mentioned it to get new customers, which would in turn help pay for the upgrades they're doing. It's annoying to wait so long, after it being announced months beforehand. Especially when you consider it took some people a lot longer to recieve their upgrades, than others! Some people still haven't recieved the last upgrade.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

if that was the case then the sales leaflets being bunged through doors and TV and Radio adverts would be informing customers that the speeds are soon to be upgraded. but as far as I know there is no marketing campaign re these new speeds yet.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

The announcement of the increased speeds was made by Simon Duffy in an annual media statement. This statement contained details of what NTL was planning for the coming year including new speeds, VOD, etc. It would have been rather a let down for the media to have been told "We have great plans for the coming year but we can't tell you anything about them until they are ready to be delivered". :)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

When i rang up to cancel this morning , they were still talking about the 600k and 1meg on the "while you wait" tape.
However the young lady on cancellations knew nothing about speed upgrades or caps [and why would she].
She put me on hold twice while she got confirmation, and her "informant" told her 1gig d\load a day is enough for most people, which i'm sure for a lot, it probably will be. When i explained i have 3 i-pod mounted kids, etc etc etc, she agreed it might not suit me.
She could,nt believe that i cancelling , despite being dead happy with my connection and pricing.
She was, as i've found usually with ntl,very polite and helpful, and my account now finishes on Feb17th.
Also the modems are no longer collected, but i told her i'd be keeping it safe just in case one day theres a change in the usage.[if its not obsolete ;)]
But dont think your getting rid of me that easily, i intend to keep an eye on updates and the like.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

The UKONLINE 8mb offer is releasing in my area (Guildford) in March and many other exchanges are being unbundled at the same time. NTL havent a clue when their paltry 3mb capped service is being released and so I shall be moving across after having been with NTL for 5 years.

The NTL capped service means that once you have used your allowance for the month it limits your speed to standard dial up for the rest of the month, a number of other countries such as Belgium have had the same system in place for a few years now.

As I only live less than 50 yards from the exchange, will only pay an extra £2.00 for a service that is 8 times faster and is "capped" (loosely speaking) to 500GB per month it would be pretty stupid of me to stay with NTL. Also all of my local area is currently on cable modems and so I will have alot of the contention ratio all to myself :o)

NTL really need to be able to keep up with the market as they have the infrastructure in place to be able to offer much higher speeds than ADSL, TELEWEST seem to be doing a better job but it is a pity that the two companies do not operate within the same areas as some healthy competition is sorely needed.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I am getting rather confused now. :confused: One poster is saying that some users already have the new speeds but you are saying that NTL don't know when they will be available. You obviously know what you are talking about because you know what will happen when you reach the cap. I didn't know that anything had been released about this. :rolleyes:

Another fact that I hadn't realised is that 8Mb ADSL is 8x faster than 3Mb cable. I must be a real :dunce:. I don't know a lot about contention ratios so would appreciate you telling me the difference between contention on cable and on ADSL.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

3MB, Paltry?????????? :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, where did you source your cap info from? :erm:

How do you work out that 8mb is 8 times faster than 3mb???? :dunce:

Do you not read the news? ntl and telewest have never been and probably will never be in competition....

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Fair enough. NTL haven't announced exact dates for each area (which I personally think that they should, and they may do at some point, they did with the previous upgrades). Bear in mind that with ADSL, you can still get a crap connection even if you are next to the exchange. They need to do a survey before they can give you the 8Meg speed.

You know this how exactly? I am sure if NTL had announced it, CableForum or digitalspy would have the news somewhere. Enough NTL employees post on the two forums. In fact, if I remember the announcement of higher speeds by Simon Duffy, then they were looking at charging extra for the extra downloads (much the same as Mobile Phone Cos do with GRPS).

Actually, that just means there will be a lower contention ratio..

The infrastructure can theoretically handle much higher speeds. The problem is that in practice, in large areas, it can't without upgrades.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

That's nice to know. At least that way, when you get forced off NTL you can sell the modem on eBay to cover some of the cost ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

you could... except no-one else will be able to use the modem anyway ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

beat me to it :D:D:D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Wow a whole seven in total :D

compared to NTL's franchise wide roll-out of three complete new teirs and guess what, it's not dependent on how close you live to the exchange and is therefore available to all subs who take up the new levels.

I'm really envious (NOT) of the (sic) 8x faster than NTL's paltry offering :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

if they had any sense they would just try and get people to download big files over night. what difference would it make it people just setup their connections to download their american sitcom torrents over night...

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

That's all very well, assuming you live in a cabled area. And it took NTL a couple of years to roll out cable modems to all franchises, so UKonline aren't doing too badly by those standards.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ah, but then you would have to triple the speed again so that the 24/7 downloaders could still get the same volume of downloads done in that overnight period. But wait, if you did this they would grumble that they could only use their connection at full speed for a third of the time. :D

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Everyone has a different use for the internet, just because people complain about something it doesn't mean the same people would complain about something else. I'm sure even an ISP's ideal customer (such as yourself) would grumble at certain changes that could be made.

Some people need a fast comfortable car for long distances, others just need something to get them to the shops once a week. Everyone is different, ISPs need to cater for all users.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

No they don't. They have to cater for the particular users that'll bring them profits.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Most other companies have realised this is not true (Banks, Telcos, etc.). It's about time NTL did.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

correct NTL exists to make a profit not to cater for every possible kind of user.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

what a laugh :D

I don't see UKOnline engineers working to install 'new' anything they are just utilising the existing 'last mile' that was put in place by the taxpayer, not obtaining wayleave and then going around digging up the roads and laying ducting, installing cabs, running fibre (and all that it entails) and then handing over to the tech heads for testing and then running coax to the subs from the distribution nodes.

Last time I saw BT do anything to the infrastructure in this area it was to replace 'wooden' telegraph poles that appeared perfectly sound but were probably subject to some arcane BT health and safety legislation as being unable to support the weight of their trained chimps (who happen to use 'cherry pickers' when doing any overhead cabling). Total waste of £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You are lucky. They haven't even done that much in my local area. In fact, I cannot recall the last time I saw BT doing any work in our area. And I live 100m from my local exchange! :Yikes:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Eh? This 8mbit has been round for about a month now. It's being installed in more exchanges. Would you like Easynet to go round digging up driveways just to make it look like they're doing something?

I'm unsure what your point is.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think his point was that it is currently being installed in only seven exchanges. You pointed out that it took NTL years to install cable modems, which, in fairness to NTL is a far larger job. You are comparing this job against the installation of hardware in a few exchanges.

Maybe it's fairer to compare UKOnline to NTL's recent speed upgrades, the bulk of which (ie most of the country, not just a few exchanges) were done 6 months after NTL announced they were starting them.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well let's give them 6 months to see what they can do then :)

I'm not sure what the hostility towards them is, they're offering a service twice the speed of any other residential service at what seems a reasonable price. OK not many people can get it yet, but it's new and certainly a step in the right direction. Whether the dislike is down to them being able to offer a service with a rather healthy cap I don't know. One thing I do know is if it was available in my area I'd sign up no hesitation.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Erm. Wrong. No company is in business for the service of the customer. Ultimately they are in business to make profit.

They like you to *think* they are in business to serve you. You watch the special offers they give you (to persuade you to join) dry up when they have you in a contract.
____________


I am not hostile to them at all. If they can provide what they promise, then all well and good. I personally think the more competition in the market, the better it is for the consumer (not necessarily for the economy, but that's another thread).

I have to admit, I have a 1.5 (soon to be 3 I hope) Meg NTL BB connection which I am happy with, but if another supplier comes along who can beat that, I'll go to them. Sadly, despite my proximity to my local exchange, I can get at most 2 Meg at the moment.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

You're lucky, I can only get 512k. :( Yet I'd still chose that over a 2mbit capped service.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

The choice is yours and yours alone. Virtually every company in existance provides goods or services for a particular section of the community, not for all the community. If NTL provide a broadband service that you are happy with, at a price that suits you and with usage conditions that you are prepared to accept then you go with them. If they don't then you look elsewhere. If no company offer the service that you want then it's tough, you cannot have it.

I don't think that some people have thought this through. NTL are marketing these new speeds with usage conditions applicable to them because they want to provide a service that attracts customers not drive them away. Most users think that it is a very good deal. Some customers are waiting for full details to be announced before making their minds up. NTL will have done their research and worked their sums out and decided what is best for the company at this moment in time and for the forseeable future. They will have looked at such things as the effect of high usage customers on the network and may come up with a solution that caters for them, but we will have to wait and see if this is the case. They could have got it wrong but somehow I doubt it.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

I was actually referring to my existing connection speed, although not exactly 8 times faster it certainly will seem like it due to the slowdown recently.

Some people may already have the upgrade but the idiots on the end of the phone still dont know when I might have the opportunity to upgrade.

Due to Guildford having a larger Cable user base than ADSL it makes perfect sense that there will be fewer ADSL users, in my road especially there are almost no ADSL subscribers, therefore there are fewer people to hog the bandwidth which means faster speeds for me :o)

As for the physical cap, there are only a few ways of actually efficiently controlling bandwidth usage,

1: Either cut the user off after they have used up their allocation, which wont happen.

2: Reduce the users bandwidth to dial up speed as already happens around Europe.

3: Give the user the option of paying more per mb / gb or whatever, this option will just annoy people and give them further justification to want to change to ADSL.

NTL are going the route of AOL and are trying to appeal and retain low usage customers who occasionally want the extra bandwidth for updates etc and are trying to get rid of high bandwidth users (Mostly people downloading illegal stuff)

This means that they will be left with more bandwidth to be able to offer more services on the network (VOD) and still retain the revenue, with fewer users downloading excessive amounts the service will improve for everyone (In theory).

I myself probably wont exceed the allowance its just I dont like being told that there is a limit to the service I am using, also the 400k upload will be useful for when I RDP over to my home PC from work and there are other users on the home network.

Tizer

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

ukonline is the best way i think how could you pass up 8Mb for so cheap with a good monthly allowance. i for one am moving straight to them in march as i am sure most users will move elsewhere to maybe not the ones who use net once a week and probably use 50MB a month and dont care. some days i download at least 10GB others 5 ish ntl is good stable isp but a 40GB cap.... no thanks
and whats better is i am 1kilometer away from exchange ill for sure get full speed and the fact about 2 ppl in my area use net makes it even better. ntl should drop the cap or at least increase it like ukonline did. :angel:

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well it is correct a business ultimate goal is to make profit otherwise why do business, but there are different ways of looking at it. Many companies will be prepared to make a loss to satisfy customers if it means profit in the long term. The other end of the scale companies that won't accept any type of loss ever, and expect each and every customer to turn them a profit.

Using banks as an example, when people go bankrupt etc. and default on their debts, these are examples of loss making customer's, now if the bank were to go anal on this they could turn around and say right we are going to stop offering loans because we cannot garantuee a profit on every customer and this would be insane. Another example is walkers crisps who I have worked for before, when their customer base gets below their target they will usually either add more product free ot knock something like 50% off the price of multipacks, they have at times sold multipacks for a loss although rare it has been done, they will also refund customers £10 for each complaint regardless of the size of the complaint or investigation result.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

There is a difference between making a small loss on a few customers with high usage and having to spend thousands on the network to prevent those few users from affecting other users on their UBR.

What makes me laugh is the number of posters who know the number of other users in their area using NTL and BT broadband. How do you find that out?

Distance from a BT exchange is another thing that some people get wrong as they do not know the routing that the wires follow. You can live next door to an exchange but your connection to it may have been following an old route that existed before the exchange was built and could be well outside the distance for higher speed ADSL.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

"There is a difference between making a small loss on a few customers with high usage and having to spend thousands on the network to prevent those few users from affecting other users on their UBR."

Thousands in a one off investment can be considered a small loss, these heavy users I doubt make much difference to peak time demands for NTL they probably make more of a difference to external bandwidth costs and quiet time demands, I am sure UBR's need only be upgraded to cope with peak levels of traffic.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

True. It's not quite the same thing, but we used to have a small workshop near our server room and next do to one of the patch panel rooms (where the network sockets are connected to the switches, same sort of thing as an exchange). We always got a unreliable connection there. When we investigated , the reason was that despite the work room being next door to the patch room, on the network there was slightly over 100 metres of cable between them. The safe maximum cable length (from Switch to computer) is 100 Metres.

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes. All true - and I was meaning long term profit in my earlier post.

If you sell crisps, it make sense to keep people who spend big money on crisps (those who buy multipacks) happy with your brand, so that they buy enough of your brand at full price to make you a profit.

And if they're sussed, then a complaint is good news. Someone's made an effort to help you keep them as a customer. And it'll only cost you a tenner! Now they can give you £50 worth of free advertising to their friends about how well you sorted out the minor problem you had with your cheese & onions being the wrong shape.

And no bank would offer a loan to someone they expected to go bankrupt. They just know that of x thousand people who walk through the door, Y of them'll go bankrupt, (and z of them'll go into enough debt for the bank to clean up on the interest charges, but not quite enough for them to stop paying :erm: ) so they pitch their rates accordingly so that on average the punters who pay up cover the losses on those that don't. They just don't know which ones that'll be.

Have you seen that new telly ad where some lender brags about how everyone pays the same rate, regardless of their particular circumstances? Chances are that either: you won't qualify unless you're a safe bet, in which case the lender could afford to have lower rates as there'll be lower risk, but probably won't, or the rates'll have to be pitched so the safe bets subisdise the losses on the dodgy bets. And will leave in droves when they discover that a competitor which does take their circumstances into account can offer a better deal. My money's on the former.

Far more common are the 'we only sell insurance to grey-haired people who drive brown Rovers' type ads - in other words, attracting the customers that are cheap to have. This seems to be what NTL are aiming for.

NTL see a small proportion of users hoovering up most of the bandwidth. They will never make money from these people. If they recommend NTL to their friends, because of how nice NTL were about not having hard caps, chances are those people will also be heavy, unprofitable, downloaders. Why on earth would NTLwant these people as its customers? If they moan about the caps at work, most people will just shrug and say, 'well, not a problem for me, I don't download 30 linux distos every week (whatever they're supposed to be)' or whatever I'm-in-absolutely-no-doubt-it's-legal-and-I-don't-think-for-one-moment-its-copyrighted material that needs 80GB a month bandwidth.

I suspect some CF members are going to become like the reckless boy racers in cheap leather jackets that Michael Winner regards disaprovingly on e-sure ads ;)

Re: [Merged] ntl "cap"-*ALL* Discussion In Here Please.
 

In a recession, banks have been known to do this.