Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m a light user also but is it really 1GB a day, I was looking forward to using the net more to download as with my 300K its to slow so I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t download much. So what good is all this speed then the web pageââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s might fly up quicker and the games might be better online but why do they not just give us a monthly total 30GB ie the same as 1gb per day but we can fill our quota how we please. Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢d like to be able to appreciate the new speed.



Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m lucky I have both NTL phone,TV,300KBB and BT in the house, so if I needed to lok at BT its not a problem. I cant compare my friends 512KBS ADSL a few doors up as itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s a bit better than my 300Kbs connection and annoyingly his pings in games a far better I was hoping this new speed would see me catch up, but we will see.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

That's all welle and good and clever, but you are in a very tiny minority of customers who need/want/use their bb for all those purposes. And ntl needs to cater for the masses, not the very few heavy using techy individuals... :shrug:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Well, as I mentioned I called CS and they offered me a stand-alone modem. Today I recieved a "welcome to high speed broadband Internet from NTL" letter with a pin and serial number as if I'm a new customer.

I really hope this isn't going to lead to billing problems :(

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Sorry, if this has been answered all ready, I have looked, honest!

Are there caps in place at the moment? I have looked on the NTL website, but I can't find any info about it

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

There is meant to be a soft cap of 1GB per day, but NTL do not really enforce it.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

No, what you've received is 100% spot on.

You will be billed seperately for your modem.

I would like to check that you aren't going to get charged for a second set top box, this charge defaults in if you already have a set top box, and people do sometimes forget to remove it.

I can also arrange a paper bill for your cable modem, as by default you'll get an email notification.

If you'd like me to check all the above, please PM me.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

to be honest i still cant see the huge fuss this is causing, we are all ready on a supposed 30GB cap??? Id consider myself a heavy user (use xbox live, vpns into work, download lots of tv shows etc) and ony once have i ever broken 30GB in a month!! (that was half life month!! :) )
I think we should be thanking NTL for uppin the speeds rather than slagging them!!!.
Only thing i would say is if they are goin to put hard caps in place then daily would be better than monthly, imagin using your limit by the 15th and being shoved down to 56k (or whatever they are goin to do) for the rest of the month!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

If you have recieved a new pin and cable modem, you are aware that you may have been automatically signed up for a new 12 month contract, this seems to be standard practice now.
__________________

purenuman : yes i can, I know at least 8 people who have just dumped ntl for this very reason, and i know of another 4 who are in the process of moving their telephone lines to bt in readyness.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Those who aren't happy with the caps, feel free to move to another ISP.
I can never understand why so many people who purport to believe ntl is a terrible ISP continue to use them.

There are loads of alternatives, instead of everyone banging on about how bad ntl is, simply use someone else.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I received that letter when I cancelled my TV and phone and went over to SACM and it all seems to be correct on my last bill.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

You canot say that I'm brainwashed, I'm not. You could say that I am an informed person living in the real world and able to look at what's going on in a realistic way.

I don't work for NTL and I don't have all their services. I did have both NTL DTV and Sky in different parts of the house but dropped the NTL DTV in favour of Sky+. NTL could never give me an acceptable DTV service but Sky could and Sky have so much more to offer than NTL on the DTV front.

I wonder what you will say about all the other companies that sold broadband as unlimited when they in turn impose restrictions. If you think that will never happen then please remove your head from where it currently resides. :D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Nindram have just announced their ADSL products will be 2mb where possible and prices reduced. Also there will be a peak hours 50g cap in place.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

And I can never understand why NTL speaks so much about caps but has never enforced one? Maybe they are afraid of loosing their customers?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Works out about 240gb (give or take) a month inc. the unlimited off peak bandwidth. Kind of makes NTL's 30gb seem a little weak.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I personally think it's because they need a means to throw people off the service if their useage is excessive, but they don't want to throw off someone who exceeds it just a few times.

But then, I am not their spokesman, so I'm not sure.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Why carry on moaning if you're so convinced NTL is so bad and ADSL so good? Move along to ADSL and you will forever have that perfect unlimited service. :rolleyes: The same few posters who keep on posting the same thoughts time after time, day after day, make many readers wonder why they are still on here and it tells them that very few people are complaining.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

:potkettleblack:

I really don't have time for you today.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Translation: I've lost the argument and have nothing new to add.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Or I'm bored of quoting Ian@Huth's "expert" views daily.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

stop pouring petrol on the fire ;) :D :D :D


but i agree , go to adsl and enjoy yourself there Hans Gruber , nobody is forcing you to stay with ntl ;)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I don't think any of you have much to worry about, I can't see NTL doing to much to stray from the formula, if anything they atleast want to be on a par with Blueyonder, let alone UK Online will be expanding alot in the coming year.

I am seriously annoyed with NTLs customer service though, its got the point now that there is no point ringing them because anything you agree on either never gets done, forgotten about or you have to ring repeatedly to get one simple problem solved. I do understand most of that is down to system changes and updates in recent months, all gearing towards taking the company forward, so i'm willing to let it go for the time being.... but if the caps are stringent, simple as I will take my business elsewhere, no point getting worked up about it.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

You don't have to, you choose to. :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

just a :welcome: to the site for you , canny first post btw :tu:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I want to see less of the *personal* comments please. Thank you.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Am I Off topic??
I check this thread every couple of days to see if there is any real(!!) news of when I will get the FREE upgrade from 750 k to 1.5 mb and all I ever seem to read is moans and whinges about the cap and how this will force people to move to BT etc. Boring.......
So, are there any firm dates and details around yet?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Firm dates ? :D

This is NTL we're talking about :Yikes:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

It's probably much better to also keep your eye in our main home page, where we will post updated information as and when we get it. So far, 14th March is when the new speeds have been said to be rolled out. Which is incidently - a week on Monday.

More information is in our last news item:-

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3 :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

no real news of late - I think it's a case of an announcement will be within the next couple of weeks. I dont think they can leave it much longer to start an official campaign as a lot of the competitors (e.g. Nildram today) have already made announcements.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

And before everyone starts discussing that, & taking this thread (even more) off topic, we already have a Nildram Cap discussion running here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...063#post413063 :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

i think that will change.... very very very very soon ;)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Speed upgrades will not be long now......

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

yeah, just over a week - if everything goes according to plan. *fingers crossed*

is it true that the caps will not be enforced until later in the year? :confused:
if so, then upgrading from 300k to 1mb won't be too bad, seeing as we won't have strict caps. plus, at the rate the broadband market is moving at the moment, i wouldn't be suprised if ntl change the planned caps to keep up with competition or even introduce even faster speeds or change the prices, just to keep in line with competition. maybe ntl will try and under cut other ISPs apart from BT retail :rolleyes: .
maybe, we'll never have to be under the "strict caps", by the autumn, everything could have changed.... (hopefully for the better :D)

these speed increases will be brill! :) (as long as the caps aren't enforced, just yet)

my thoughts so far... :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Apparently new customers will be able to get in with the new speeds earlier than the rest, as of the 8th March.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I am sure you meant 2MB there not 1.5MB

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Sorry it looks like you in for a bad shock, I personally know 30 or so people who use more then 40 gig a month, I find it very hard to believe that I know 20% of ntl's users that this will affect. I would expect it to be more like 50000 out of 1million who go over 40gig or 30gig on the bottom tier. Then of course their will be users who dont use that amount but for other reasons they wont want such a cap so of course thats more, and the bottom tier they may be people who was eg. 512kbit for under £20 a month but more then 5 gig a month, can NTL provide this? no?

I can see NTL losing about 10-20% of their broadband customers from this due to mixture of bad publicity/going over cap/better deals elsewhere, this just shows the arrogance if you believe you are invincible and people will just accept it once they KNOW ABOUT IT.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

10-20% - I don't think so - you are living on another planet.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Paul really, a norway isp tried the same and lost 40%, like I said its example of company thnking its impossible that can happen but it will.

Dont even try comparing this to the introduction off the last cap since that isnt enforced.

NTL's arguments'

"We provide for the bulk of the customers not the minority"
My opinion taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge, there is so many users in this country who have broadband but use it for a purpose that dialup is fit for.

"We need these "LOW" caps to even make a profit"
Very hard to believe when I hear that NTL make 50% operating profit plus isp's all around NTL are offering peak time only caps or all day caps like 500gig month.

"We want piracy of our network"
I think all isp's do, but the solution isnt to try and brute force it off because innocent users get cuaght in the crossfire, for things like bittorent a upload cap would hurt a lot more.
This seems to be more trying to protect NTL's tv revenue.

Come on guys try and address these points.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

NTL do not ever claim any of the above and who are this "norway isp" and give us some info + history on them.....

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I got BB because I got fed up with the two hour cutoff on dial-up which would always screw up any downloads I was trying to get so I think my reasons for choosing BB over Dial-up are valid.. :rolleyes:

Ntl have always been capping us.Remember the free 24/7 always on dial-up we were promised way back when?All we had to do was sign up and wait for the cd.

I waited 16 months and two months after I got my disk they were charging £10 to us dial-up 24/7 customers.I was allowed a 6 month sabbatical before I had to pay a fiver.After a year it went up to the full sum.Gee thanks ntl! :(

I never really expected much from ntl since then.They are trying to make money after all and at least they were more honest than some 24/7 dial up ISP's that took my money and then ran..... :rolleyes:

Incog.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

You know i would be very interested in that info as well. So i will pull up a chair and wait to see who made the statements and who this ISP is. If they lost that many users there should be lots of news items on it :). Lets do a search of google see who finds it first. :Sprint: to google search page and trys something like this

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I think that was because NTL expected the industry to move towards free dial up, but then the rest of the ISP's realised people were so ignorant they could continue to screw them over.

A similar thing happened in the mobile phone industry, orange introduced a deal where for a one of fee of £15 a pay as your go customer could have 5 a day free text messages indefinately. The offer was soon withdrawn, after they realised that no one else was doing it :rolleyes: . It still amazes me how phone companies can charge for text messages today.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Chrysalis, really, 2 Major ISPs in THIS country have got wose caps than NTL, BT and Wanadoo, both havent lost 40% of their customers post capping.

NTL will not lose a major amount of people due to a cap, they are much more likely to lose more over perceived problems within the network, far more people are interested in a reliable ISP over an uncapped one.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

It's more serious for NTL though if someone leaves Wanadoo or BT they usually just go to another ADSL provider. But if someone leaves NTL broadband where do they go? AOL on NTL? It's the only option and if you don't want AOL on NTL then you have to get ADSL and most people that go that route will switch to BT/SKY for their phone and digital services. So if NTL loses broadband customers they will also likely lose the customer for telephone and digital as well.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Oh the memories and the reasons why I got BB as well, what with dialup and in the days of metered dialup, no internet before 6pm ;), clock watching, crap download rates. Who remembers the joys of X-Stream 0800? :p:

And then the unmetered revolution began 08004u, ezesurf, BigblueSky, IGClick, NetgamesUK etc etc I could go on but its going off this topic just a tad. :D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

BT + Demon (loved those £400 phone bills and isp subscription on top)> BT + Freeserve (as before but no subs) > BT + Screaming.net/World Online (now Tiscali) (free 24/7 net access) > NTL (time will tell)
That covers quite a few years so I tend to stick with companies till they start taking the pee (hello 1gig/day cap) or someone offers enough incentive to move to them.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Chrysalis, whatever. Correct me if i'm wrong but what you must find have absurd capping rules; BT and Wannado have had increasing customer base with theirs.

I remember the days of dialup, i used ic24, that mirror isp and ntls 0800 service. Awful, godawful, i never want to see those days again and if i do, I'll give up on the internet. I remember it being impossible to play an online game as i'd automatically be disconnected when joining one with ntl..

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Actually, I thought ic24 was great!

Although it was hell to get on, those 'free 0800 access' periods were part of the revolution that finally opened up proper unmetered access deals...in the days when broadband was still but a pipedream.

Although it didn't feel like it at the time, ic24 were one of those great pioneering ISPs of old, like LineOne and ScreamingNet. Aaah, nostalgia.

Oh God, I feel old now. I think I'm going to go in the canal!

Incidentally, ic24 is still going strong and has some ok broadband deals, although these days they are merely a Brightview brand and are nothing special...but at least the name survives! http://www.ic24.net. The page design is still identical to the 'old days' too!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Or look at it another way and even people who are annoyed about the cap will put up with it as they will have to go to a lot of trouble to change.....

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I would say it is a matter of time. Some will leave at once when they feel uncomfortable while it will take some time for others, but they will leave for a better provider sooner or later.

If you check out another topic about newsgroups. When the service went down, ppl started to complain, some went to another provider within 2 days, it took a week for others and maybe it is going to be a month for the slowest but the process is irreversible.
The same will happen with ntl if they implement caps.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

So by this theory, there will be no ISPs in the country apart from AOL, as they have no caps?

Or is it that only ntl customers will all leave, and somehow customers of other ISPs with caps won't mind?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I was talking about custumores who are "annoyed" with the intorduction of new rules. Surely it doesn't mean that all ntl customers will be affected by or annoyed with the new order of the things.

I thought it was pretty obvious what I meant because I quoted:
people who are annoyed about the cap will put up with it as they will have to go to a lot of trouble to change.....

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

ntl already have a 30GB cap in place - they just don't call it that. Very few of their customers exceed it, and this will not change. People on this forum seem to forget that most people with internet access still just browse a few web sites each day and use their e-mail - they care little about their speed and are certainly not downloading Gigabytes of data each month - they will never get close to the 30GB/40GB caps. The one they may get close to is the 3GB limit.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I think some people will definitely exceed 3GB per month on a 1Mb connection. And I'm not talking about technically minded people playing games/downloading demos/breaching copyrights etc. It's only going to get worse as well. I certainly don't envy people in customer services having to explain to someone why their internet connection has suddenly got so slow.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Chrysalis, stop and think for a minute.

NTL are unlikely to lose customers until they start to hard cap. Even then only a very small minority of customers will be affected and some of those will start to wonder why they are downloading so much and using masses of CDs and DVDs to store it all on and never use it.

So a few may leave. ...........................BUT

How many ADSL customers out there who can only get 512k will suddenly realise that they can get 6 times their ADSL speed if they switch to NTL. I think that you know as well as I do that most broadband customers have a usage below 7 Gb a month (the industry average) and most of them use less than 3 Gb a month.

So there is a possibility that instead of losing the hundreds of thousands that you predict they could gain far more than this and maybe gain some for all three services.

Just think of all those ADSL users on 512k with a 1 Gb or 2 Gb cap that can suddenly get NTL with initially a soft unenforced cap and 1 Mb/s download for £17.99 which when it starts being enforced will still have a bigger allowance than they were getting.

NTL are onto more of a winner than loser in my eyes.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

But the great, massive, overwhelming majority of customers are on 300k.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Then why go to all the pain and introduce 2 and 3 M with crappy caps, while
"great, massive, overwhelming majority of customers are on 300k", and they don't need faster lines so they are pretty happy with what they have, while those who does need faster, are on 750/1.5 but they cannot use 2/3M to its full extent with the caps?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Ian what do you mean by this ?

"I think that you know as well as I do that most broadband customers have a usage below 7 Gb a month (the industry average) and most of them use less than 3 Gb a month."

I assume you're saying the mean usage is 7GB per month but the mode usage is much less, in fact less than 3GB per month?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

The product needs to be kept competitive.

I am not a spokesman for ntl. I don't personally agree with capping, and I feel the 3gb cap is far too low. However, they were made a harsh reality of life for the self same imbeciles who caused the 'online time limits' that appeared on most unmetered dialup services.

Frankly, it was a bit naive of all the ISPs not to assume the same thing wouldn't happen.

it's all the CD burners.....selling them in pubs. They should be in prison, never mind on the internet.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Marketing. So they can say stuff like 'send your photos 10 times as fast!!1!!!1' when the speeds they are increasing has nothing to do with sending (BT's ad ;) ).

Just about what looks better i guess, who offers the better service. Capping will always be small print, the 'catch' to the service; all the big companies seem to have gone all out on maximising customers with capping.

But, ic24, i still remember the days of relentless redialing and the joy of when i got through :D :erm:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I remember that time too. I didn't even know what is "downloading" :erm: then.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Scrotnig, whilst selling copyrighted material in pubs may possibly be a criminal offence, the sort of thing you're complaining about most certainly isn't. I can download music/films etc. 24 hours a day without any fear of arrest or santion under criminal law.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

- how much of what you download, do you watch ?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

It's all about 'fair and reasonable use' these days. The service is designed and built around ordinary, residential use. Downloading 24/7 is excessive and not deemed to be 'normal' use.

It's the same contentious issue as the unmetered time caps, and for exactly the same reason. People will never agree on it because they will always claim that any restrictions are a bad thing. Fair point, but the companies will claim that if people hammer the connection 24/7, then they lose money by providing it and the price would need to increase so much to cover that, that it would price ordinary users out of it. Also a fair point.

So, in all reality, here in the real world, the best we can hope for is that caps will be enforced reasonably and realistically. ntl have so far done that, (apart from the somewhat sneaky way they were intoroduced, which I think they learned a lesson over), whether that continues, only time will tell.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I don't download any copyrighted material, I was just pointing out that it's not a criminal offence.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Quite correct. :tu:

The industry has determined that the mean average is around 7 Gb per month. However AFAICR less than 10% of users consume over 60% of bandwidth. If you were to remove the usage of that top 10% then the mean average would fall below 3 Gb per month.

This is why the introductory level of the ISPs that have a 1GB or 2Gb per month cap for around £17.99 are so popular. The users on them have enough bandwidth for their requirements. These introductory level products are gaining customers all the time which makes nonsense of the claims that NTLs caps will result in large customer losses. Broadband users and potential users within NTL cabled areas will be attracted to a service which has an higher cap, albeit only 3 Gb per month, and a higher download speed for the same £17.99. The new 2 Mb and 3 Mb services from NTL will win a lot of customers from ADSL that cannot get more than 512k from ADSL.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I would have thought it more the price that attracted the users to the introductory levels, I would assume that most new users haven't a clue what 1 or 2 Gb allowance actually means in real terms, in fact I would think that all most people see in the adverts is the price, I mean it's not as if ISP's go out of their way to draw attention to the usage allowances.

If interest rates start to rise after the election it will be the users on the lower levels who cancel their connection simply because they will not be able to justify the expenditure for a service they do not make full use of.
Both my neighbours are on the lowest tier with NTL and after playing around with the Internet initially neither of them hardly ever use it anymore, these are the types of user who will cancel when the mortgage rate rise further.
__________________

I think it is really wonderful that there are so many honest, god fearing people on this forum, they are a credit to their parents.
:angel: ........IF they are telling the truth that is.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Sorry - been trying to keep out of this but I can't.

What are the reasons for capping then? Is it to curb the downloading of copyright material? Is it to curb the technical queries that the nice people at NTL receive each and every day, or is it in fact, like most cable/telcos, that they do not wish to spend a large amount of budgeted cash on the upgrade of various networking linchpins in order to provide a much more stable, and speedy environment.

I wager that the latter is closest. NTL have never been a company who place Customer Service high on their agenda as far as Continuous Improvement goes. And to be totally honest I don't blame them.

The idea of Broadband caps, and Broadband speed increases is ridiculous, and such a blatant marketing scam it's just bordering on the naive for people to think this is a step forward.

The caps are aimed at customers for two reasons:

1) They don't have, or want to have a definitive plan for upgrading of network infrastructure to handle the 'constant' speeds they claim to offer in advertisments (whatever medium they are in)

2) They want to get rid of High usage customers. End of.

When you look at an average month, Microsoft updates combine to represent approximately 100MB downloads (give or take). Say then that you only use your llink for browsing the Web. The amount of downloadable clips, music, and other media from sites now is immense (and growing). the 3GB cap will easily be breached. Online gaming is another thing....I can seriously see another tier being brought in for Gaming needs (going back to the dark days of pay as you play subscriptions to servers etc.....)

All these posters talking about NTL not losing much customer base - how correct you are. NTL have, without a shadow of a doubt, most customers by the short and curlys. What Cable options do we have to jump to from NTL? Anyone? That's correct - none. The Cablecos have generously divided the country into sections, and for the most part, youhave a choice of 2-3 providers.

OK, so we can jump to ADSL. Of course we could, but the majority of users, (as most of you say) are just happy having everything (TV, Telephone, Net access etc..) all under the one (laughable) Customer Service Umbrella. And again, I cannot blame them for this either....the fact is that NTL are taking advantage of their Customer's shallow technical abilities, and also the fact that the majority of users, are in fact, lazy buggers. (like myself)


So taking all of that into consideration, you would have thought that NTL, knowing they have a loyal (for whatever reason) customer base, could see there way clear to actually giving something back. Their sugar coated delivery of Speed Increases seem great on those cheesy-ditty Adverts and Customer Service lines, however in reality, technical users (or just those with common sense perhaps?) see the Speed increases as a sweatner to ease us into the Hard Cap age.

It is true that other ISP's are following suit.....but we are not interested in other ISPS. Blueyonder don't currently cap. AOL don't. So please don't sit there and post crap about making "NTL a competative product" - utter nonsense.

The point is, most users either don't agree with this, don't want it, or just don't know/understand about it yet.

I for one would seriously consider jumping ship if there was a lazy alternative ;)

By the way, one little question of my own - I saw recently on these forums about NTL possibly charging £1.99 per GB over the cap? What is the story with going over Caps then...or will it simply not be possible due to Hard Capping (in whcih case, Modem config editing is bound to be rife again - or WiFi piggy-backing will increase)

Cheers

Wiggz (apologies for spelling errors, 'tis early) :erm: ;)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

There is-do you not realise just how easy it is to change to a DSL provider? http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...78&postcount=1

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Excellent link to switching, thanks for sharing :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Are there any statistics on the breakdown of users on the different tiers? Not that I'm saying you're wrong Scrotnig but it's just hard to believe. I would of thought the majority of users are on 750k, having been upgraded from 600k since the lowest tier (128k) didn't come in till much later. Maybe something about the profile of 300k users makes them much more likely to call CS should they have any problems ?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Why, why, why, can people not grasp the basic maths of this?

Your option 2 is correct. The company, like most broadband providers, don't want high usage customers, end of. To upgrade the network to accommodate these people, who are a tiny, tiny minority, would cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, and for what return? A few thousand customers (if that!) spending £38 a month? I really don't think so!

The network is already perfectly stable in my area thank you very much...except when some numbskull starts downloading thousands of music tracks and/or movies to burn onto disc and sell in the pub. Why the frig should the cost of my service increase to pay for a network upgrade to allow such people to carry on with that activity?

And please, can nobody jump in and say they download thirty Linux distributions a week.....no sane residential user needs to do that. If you need to do that, then you need to pay a higher price for your service.

In an ideal world I am not in favour of caps, however, historically these numbskulls will abuse the service until it dies. There is no case for a highly profitable company accommodating these people at standard price, so there is certainly no case for ntl doing it, given the fact they have no money and are not making any.

What amazes me is that these high usage people keep threatening to take their business elsewhere, thinking the company will be crippled when they do. Can you people not understand, this is exactly what the company WANT you to do, so please, stop bleating and clear off!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

ian@huth



This is why the introductory level of the ISPs that have a 1GB or 2Gb per month cap for around £17.99 are so popular. The users on them have enough bandwidth for their requirements. Broadband users and potential users within NTL cabled areas will be attracted to a service which has an higher cap, albeit only 3 Gb per month, and a higher download speed for the same £17.99. The new 2 Mb and 3 Mb services from NTL will win a lot of customers from ADSL that cannot get more than 512k from ADSL.


You are wrong about a couple of things.

It is popular because there is no other choice. I have talked to a friend who has subscribed to BT 512kbps 5G monthly cap for 17.99.
He is very unhappy with the service. He doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t need this kind of speed for surfing the Internet and e-mails. So, basically he pays money for the speed he doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t use/need and he has no better option.
Ppl who are attracted to 3/5G monthly cap has to pay so much money for speed they do not need.

The new 2 Mb and 3 Mb services from NTL will win a lot of customers from ADSL that cannot get more than 512k from ADSL.
No, it will not attract new customers who is not happy with 512 DSL. Simply because ppl who need better speed they, in most cases, consume more than these ridiculous 30G/40G caps, so there is no point for them to have these higher speeds and pay for them, if they cannot really use them.

scrotnig

A few thousand customers (if that!) spending £38 a month? I really don't think so!
You see? You are wrong. In a particular case with NTL it works very differently, because NTL cable customers also pay for phone line rent and for phone bills and for digital TV. So, it is much more then just 38.

except when some numbskull starts downloading thousands of music tracks and/or movies to burn onto disc and sell in the pub.
You must be kidding. Maybe this happened in the past, a few years ago or so. Nowdays people who sell pirated disks in a public place would be arrested at once, let alone people who buys from them are dolts.

What amazes me is that these high usage people keep threatening to take their business elsewhere, thinking the company will be crippled when they do. Can you people not understand, this is exactly what the company WANT you to do, so please, stop bleating and clear off!
NTL is an Administrator on its own huge network. Admin is deciding what its user can or cannot do. It is clear and simple as this. This means that if NTL wanted people who uses more than 30G per month to leave they would get rid of them long time ago with a snap of fingers.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Point heard....however as NTL have advertised themselves in the past and present as being "The Cable Co for everyone" (not in so many words.....but by packaging services together and their general branding rationale) they should however see that some home users, do use very large amounts of bandwidth monthly. Yes there are people who get away with lots and lots of movies and music etc out of it....but I am almost positive that I could hit the 30gb limit within 4 weeks by downloading reasonable legal software/services (and yes, on a consitant basis) I used to regularly hit 15gb a month on 512k connection....and that was purely legal distributions and other services. I have not monitored my connection since......however I am sure I breach the softcap on multiple occasions (am monitoring now).

If they want to be the "all singing all dancing" CableCo....they should provide for high usage users by providing a higher tariff perhaps?

Wiggz

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

There is no 'one size fits all service'. Each company will decide based on its own user base and its own intended direction which users it will encourage and which users it would rather discourage.

People quote 'my friend says he leave ntl will because of the cap.....' and then presume this action will be replicated by huge numbers of customers.

I will say again, ntl are NOT stupid and know exactly what their userbase wants. The overwhelming majority of broadband customers are perfectly happy with the service as described. It's no good members of this site telling me what they think customers want and then presenting it as fact, because I *know* what customers want, and the facts are, in most cases caps do not bother them one iota.

ntl need to cater for the majority. They aren't in a financial position to pander to niche markets, which is what the heavy users are. AOL might be a better option for such people, as AOL have clearly decided that they are going to market at that sector (unusually for them). Good luck to them, but that approach won't suit every operator.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

So why don't NTL only offer a 300k service and scrap the high tiers ?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Because then you'd have another opportunity to slate ntl for not having enough choice... :rolleyes:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

oh god this thread really needs a boost! It's painful at the moment expecially when I hear umpteen percentage people will leave because it happened in Norway or something.

Still waiting for a link re the Norway ISP? where is it? anyone?

The sooner these speed increases happen the better - I recon NTL have put it off a week or 2 so they can watch the continuing infinite wisdom of this thread!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

That's a good point actually, compared to the number of people on the lower tier, the amount of people on the other 2 tiers is quite low. They provide those higher speeds to keep them in the market. Getting customers that will take the latest speeds will keep them in the race, yet the same people are being punished, with ridiculously low caps.

As far as ntl knowing their market and know that people won't leave, i really do think ntl have played this card wrong, this time. There are so many connections around now, and with the constant problems regarding customer services, email, newsgroups etc, i really do think people are more likely to move, the cap being the last straw.

It doesn't need to be high numbers of people migrating to cause a problem. It's those people advising others to go elsewhere that will really count. High users are more often than not, people who know a bit about computers and internet, and are the types of people that family and friends will ask advice of. I've recommended ntl to so many people, but i stopped doing that a while back, after all the problems with email and newsgroups, etc.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Because of customers like me, who need the 1.5mb service but don't want to download Linux distros all day every day.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I will do a yahoo search - key words will be...

NORWAY ISP CAP LOST 40%

then I'll try

NORWAY ISP GAS POWERED CABLE MODEMS

just in case they left for another reason!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Do you talk ntl's customers every day? No? Well I do. Therefore, whereas you 'think' ntl have played the wrong card, I 'know' they haven't.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

:LOL: someone give him a greenie for me :D:D :rofl:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Heaven forbid, someone with an internet connection that they actually want to use. :rolleyes:

The cap isn`t going to solve this particular problem for you. If a customer can still download a gig a day there will still be periods of time when your connection is going to be affected by big downloads. But frankly, it does sound like you and NTL are just trying to act as IP police via the back door when arguments such as this are trotted out, it's that same, very tired narrow focus on illegal downloads which acts as nothing but a smokescreen around the real issues.

I would suggest that the massive downloaders in your areas co-ordinate their efforts, as soon as one has hit their daily limit the next one starts off, then you'd see how little validity there is in your argument.
__________________

Ah, but as an NTL employee you may talk to customers, but do you listen?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Holy ****!!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course he does!!!! What kind of a dumbass question is that? :mad:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

FFS what sort of a question is that supposed to be? You've got to be on some sort of wind up.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

In fairness Scrot', I think it's a good question/point, as there are many ntl customers who have rung ntl only to me met with apathy & lies/deceipt-I.E a promise of a call back, or a customer trying to get an issue resolved for thte umpteenth time, it's those occaisions where you need someone to really 'listen' to the customer (not aimed at you :) )

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

ntl, along with many other ISPs, have decided that accommodating heavy users, illegal or otherwise, is not profitable. Therefore, they want to discourage these users from being on their service, so they impose caps. People who don't like it should clear off and find another service that WILL accommodate them.

As ever, people are claiming some sort of agenda about 'policing the internet'. Do none of you realise that's got stuff all to do with it? It's profit, pure and simple. Like it or not, in a free market economy, companies exist for ONE reason....profit! They are not here to provide brilliant customer service or anything like that, if they do that it's because they believe it increases profit. Profit is the be all and end all of being in business. No-one starts a company because they want to provide good customer service, they start a company to make a profit.

If you want a workers' cooperative, go live in Russia.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Taken from http://www.plus.net/support/faq/broa...ge_faq.shtml#1

All ISPs know the cost of having high usage customers and know they cannot sustain having those customers for an indefinate period of time. The question is how long before profitability is a more important factor than retaining such customers.

More and more ISPs are taking action to persuade the very high users to move on to another ISP. The more that do this, the smaller the number of ISPs without any restriction for them to move to and the sooner the ones left will also take action.

Nildram has recently changed it usage policy to clamp down on the very high users but look how many residential broadband customers they have, just 40,000. Now if all the NTL customers jump ship as some members on here are suggesting they will and move to Nildram, what do you think will happen? If they are having to take action against high usage customers and they only have a total of 40,000 customers then I would suggest that doubling that number with all those ex NTL customers will result in their new ship sinking, and sinking fast.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

With the cable companies, considering that they do have an effective local monopoly (and please, I`m not going to go into why for some people other providers are not an option again) they have a responsibility to look at more that simple profits. They are operating in a business where the terms of their operating licence mean that the competition they face is substantially reduced. If they are going to get those perks then they need to be balanced with a little bit more consideration towards the customer.
__________________

But this amounts to the ISPs just sticking their heads in the sand. Bandwidth requirements are only going to increase in time, the ISPs need to deal with that. They cannot act like some form of neo-Luddite, stuck with the attitudes that they had in the days of dial-up and ignore the ramifications that broadband has on people's behaviour when it comes to using the internet. There will come a time when even "normal" internet use will fall into the ISPs definition of heavy usage, and by adopting this backward looking policy there will come a time when they simply collapse. Arguments that it will cost x amount of money to upgrade the network simply aren`t sustainable, sooner or later it will have to be done just to service the "normal" customers. Taking this approach of attempting to constrain behaviour will simply mean that those narrow-minded ISPs are going to get seriously bitten at some point in the near future.
__________________

It is a question based on experience, and given the responses that you post to this board you could be the poster-child for this question.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

NTL dont have a local monpoly - you can order AOL as an alternative.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Is it possible to get a poll going for 1.5mbit customers to see how many of them will continue to pay £40 a month once it gets upgraded to 3mbit? Would be interesting to see how many people are on the top tariff for the speed, or if they're on it for the ability to download more than they can on the next tier down. Seeing as there is very little difference in the tiers now (apart from 2x the price), who would want 3mbit?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

One fallacy to that argument is that NTL do allow others to supply via their cable network, maybe only one, AOL, but they cannot be considered a monopoly.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

That's like saying I could rip out my eyes as a solution to being astigmatic rather than go and get glasses.
__________________

I`m seriously considering downgrading to the 2mbit level when the new speeds come in, I am having to question whether the 3mbit level is reasonable with the current caps when I can still get a speed increase but with a reduction in the amount I pay to NTL each month.

Another wonderful bit of NTL thinking there, p*ss off customers in a manner which means they can still get a speed increase but pay them less. Makes you wonder whether anyone at NTL has even a smattering of business skill.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Its already happening! we are sooooo in the dark ages in relation to the internet. I thought the government wants us to be competitive in the new information economy.... with ISPs resisting network upgrades we are already falling behind all the major economic powers! Even france has cheap 20mbit adsl! We already pay a premium here for the internet we're screwed once VOIP and such technologies become mainstream

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

I know someone in Eindhoven with fibre direct to his house paid for by the government for the first 12 months :(

http://www.onsnetnuenen.nl/ for those interested and can speak Dutch (Sorry a bit OT)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

It must be the company I keep on here. :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please (Part 2)
 

Bandwidth requirements will increase in time as the technology and infrastructure also advance to cope with it. At the moment we are working with technology and infrastructure that copes very well with the requirements of the majority of users. Just look at what was available on cable and ADSL a couple of years ago and how far things have come. Cost of upgrading infrastructure to cope with tomorrows requirements has to be borne by someone and that is the customer, unless the government decide to intervene, and guess where they will get the money from.The problem here is that some users, particularly the heavy users, are not willing to pay their fair share of what they are using now and would throw a fit if asked to pay more for the upgrades needed for future use.