Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The rats don't need to go down with the ship those with any sense will ensure only the captain is lost;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I am aware of the composite of the committee. An opposition majority.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

4 bent and 5 honest

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It’s a good time to offer product differentiation among the pro-independence parties.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

how about a court order thats shows Boris mislead parliament it does not matter what party does it if they mislead parliament they should be gone IMHO

https://goodlawproject.org/update/jo...ed-parliament/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

yes messed up messed edited it now

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

On the contrary, the Green Party routinely supports the SNP on issues of confidence and supply. Sturgeon’s failure to convince the committee is her failure, not theirs.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They’re not the SNP, that puts the SNP in the minority not the majority.

While the Green Party do routinely support the SNP on confidence or supply this Committee was a matter of neither. Failure to convince people you disagree with politically often relates to matters other than the evidence, as routinely demonstrated (at a lower level) on this very forum.

If this was the silver bullet opponents of the SNP wish it to be it’d be announced in the proper manner. Not just in time for a BBC Panorama special.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Wow. This is one only. You said it happens all the time that there would no MPs left coz they’d all have to resign. So what you said was wrong and totally inaccurate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Mislead the forum then:shocked:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Resign or be sacked!!!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think the forum would need more cloud storage if he posted an article to every MP misleading Parliament!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sturgeon did not break the ministerial code.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The code requires misleading to have been done knowingly for a breach to have occurred. It seems to me that a great deal of effort has gone in to ensuring she *didn’t* know things, against this very eventuality. It seems pretty clear that her evidence to parliament was very wobbly and misleading but that those around her did just enough to insulate her from what was going on. I believe that’s what the Americans like to call “plausible deniability”.

Interesting that Hamilton has (for now) ducked the issue of whether the code, as written, is even fit for purpose. Sturgeon may not have breached the code as written but it is blindingly obvious that the government she leads was presiding over an absolute circus.

Ah well, on we go to the election. The candidate mailings have started coming through our door this week and we already have our poll cards.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So you still get what you pay for in Scotland.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's good justice has been done though, isn't it? I'm sure you'll agree ;) Previous politically biased votes count for nothing. She's the best 'leader' in this country atm, but that isn't saying much.

However it's a shame another FM 'got away with it'... Hopefully justice will catch up with him at some point.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Based on what exactly?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well ask the voters...
https://www.scotsman.com/health/coro...ohnson-3040619

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

* Scottish voters ONLY and only 1000+ of them polled - nice try at misleading folk as per usual. Of course most of them love her up there, heaven knows why, she tells utter lies, schools and hospitals have been in a right disgusting state under her watch and she also does not know what democracy is, but then again, neither do you. :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well we now know why grubby accusations were leaked out, breaching the confidence of witnesses and the code of conduct of members of the committee on a Thursday night. The BBC had the big guns out as Laura K found the time to remove herself from the Westminster bubble (and Boris's rear end), virtually I assume, to comment on Scotland.

And yet, it all amounted to nothing but a smear campaign from the opposition. No allegations of misconduct of any substance.

It'll play well to the ~50% of Scotland with no intention of voting SNP anyway, but it leaves the London parties further detached than ever from the other ~50% of the voters they need to persuade in order to win an election here.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I cannot really think of anything that she has done that was so much different from what Boris did, considering the poll was taken in Scotland, it's of no real surprise that the findings favoured Sturgeon rather than Boris.

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

Bollox, funny how Mr Hamilton was an SNP member.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You may well disagree Max, but then again you always would for anything that did anything other than condemn Sturgeon regardless of evidence.

Such is how polarised Scottish politics is, it's like living in two different realities.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

WTAF is this rubbish?

Laura K for the BBC has never been up Johnsons Arse. :dozey:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In your opinion, Mick. She's like a schoolgirl cheerleader to other observers. Peston slightly better but not by much.

Happy to trot out the latest lines from CCHQ but little credible journalism.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

We all know you live in an alternate one. The one where you said Brexit would be stopped and reversed, how totally inaccurate and wrong you were and still are, now on Independence! :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

No - not opinion, FACT - she is not up Johnsons backside and never has been, stop peddling this bullshit.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can you debate any topic without pulling it back to the divisive issue of Brexit? I assume not.

I've said before the Establishment would try to stop it, I'm sure everyone who can observe reality would accept that they did.

I'm not sure the difficulty you have with that observation. It's perfectly reasonable fair comment and observably true from both sides of the fence. There's three years worth of posts about it.

I don't see why my views on independence deny me the right to make fair comment observations on how hopeless the opposition parties are. As a rational English person I'm not surprised you oppose Scottish independence really.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I oppose it because the Scottish people have ALREADY decided in a once in a lifetime Referendum, i.e Democracy was already decided and a result occurred.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nowhere, anywhere was that said by anyone with the power to bind the Scottish or UK Parliaments. If Scotland votes for a party or parties on that basis it’s extremely likely there will be another referendum which is why the UK Government are currently putting a lot of effort into “selling” the union in Scotland.

Even the unionist parties are campaigning to “stop” indyref2 because they know the position isn’t tenable to say once in a generation/once in a lifetime.

If voters had backed second EU referendum parties they would have got a second vote. As it happens they were resoundingly rejected, but that’s democracy.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

She wasn't "cleared" of lying by the "independent" report, just it couldn't be conclusively proved that she deliberately lied.
Then it is often the case that it can't always be conclusively proved that somebody lied. Not sure they get the same benefit of the doubt.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I hope 'indyref2' goes ahead and succeeds . . .

:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Carth, ffs don't wish that on the many Scots who do not want independence.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More bollocks you spout.

Here have a video that totally destroys your ridiculous assertion that it wasn't said when it WAS you liar!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Mick, it's the best of three, or maybe the best of five, oh wait, we'll just keep going till we get the vote we want.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Wouldnt play for me Mick however I sense today hasn't gone how you wanted ! ;)

By the time they get round to another vote it will have been around 10 years since the last vote. It could be argued that is a new generation with 10 years worth of new voters.

If the SNP go into the election with a platform of another referendum and the people vote for it, then the mandate is there. They don't need approval from Bozza or anyone in England. If people want to exit they should be allowed, there is a precedent for that in this country...
.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It played for me but let's look at the first line of what jfman said
My take is that polticians and political parties can't bind future Parliaments. So politicians pronouncing "once in a lifetime" or "once in a generation" has no legal standing, it's just spin or an interpretation of how they believe the situation is.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Has no legal standing, which you absolutely know so I don't know why you persist in contesting it.

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

It's easy to get caught up in the rhetoric of being involved in something deemed to be "historic", however it's democratically untenable to bind future generations of voters in such a manner.

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:30 ----------

It'd certainly be helpful if opposition parties told us how they'd deliver a better/more prosperous Scotland within the devolution settlement.

As far as I can tell the opposition are fighting on a platform of "we (Tories) voted against Sturgeon in the vote of no confidence and they didn't (Labour). They're competing for the same 50% of the vote, not the other 50%.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In the way that future UK voters could overturn selected EU directives or Treaties?:rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The UK Government are already planning for the possibility.

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Not any more I doubt it.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Closing all the Pubs, and banning fans from football matches isn't anything to do with Scottish independence mate, sorry ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well, we all know you have no morals when it comes to respecting the Democratic will. :rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I've always accepted democratic votes. Be it Biden's win or Brexit, I have always accepted them. For better or worse.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Guess you'll be respecting the wishes of the Scottish people in the upcoming elections , and the mandate of the resulting Scottish Govt. then ? ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I already respect their wish as per 2014 referendum. Did SNP have a similar lead in 2014 only to lose their pathetic independence referendum?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Not the point, and never was. Such a pity that the separatist movement has descended so quickly into the very weasel-worded duplicity it accuses Westminster politicians of.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

weasel-worded duplicity

What a brilliant phrase, and to be fair it covers everything from Politics to Pizza Deliveries :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It’s entirely the point. No generation of voters is permitted to bind the rights of the following generations in this manner, any more than the voters that put us into the EU could be entitled to claim we could not withdraw. Are you claiming that the mandate for a referendum would be stronger if a party other than the SNP led the calls and won the election?

What is unusual is that the proposal is for a referendum closer to 10 years after the previous one. However if that’s what people vote for they are entitled to time and time again until people get bored of it. If the opposition are ineffective at portraying that as a waste of time, or distracting from getting on with day to day business, or portraying their own vision for Scotland within the devolution settlement then that’s unlikely to change.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It was once in a generation vote. Not my words, the pathetic separatists in the SNP.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So who are we to believe: James Hamilton, who may have been "got at", or a full committee formed from all political persuasions?

The Greens will cosy up to the Nats to defeat a vote of no confidence but the stench will continue.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

One source of information you can't believe is The Sun..

As ever, let the people decide. Democracy is only welcomed if it gives the 'right' result.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There are plenty of examples of where we are eternally bound by decisions of a previous vote. Eg we couldn't undo selected parts of the Lisbon Treaty or any other directive or ruling, it was all or nothing. Even that wasn't an option prior to the Lisbon Treaty. Article 50 didn't exist before then. Another example is the Barnett Formula. Meant to be a temporary measure, and has NO legal basis, other than convention. No chance that it would ever be revoked.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well you're the expert on that ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The expectation (Guardian) is that Labour will not vote on the VonC so I assume they are "got at"?

---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

It'll happen if the SNP win a majority whether England wants it or not. They know it's untenable.

Note that I say "if the SNP win a majority" so if you cast it up, like observations on Brexit, in a few years time that it accurately represents my opinion on how I see it playing out. Whether I'd vote for or against independence is irrelevant to my view it's untenable.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:rofl: OMFG, did you really just come out with this hypocrisy bullshit.

You have no right to say this given the absolute shit you’ve spouted since Brexit vote. You’re a hypocrite Mr K, through and through. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

As said by the SNP: “It was once in a generation vote.” I’ll keep saying it until it sinks in. :dunce:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You can repeat it as you please - it's an opinion not anything of legal standing. :dunce:

It's your preference for it to not happen, as I'd expect from English nationalists but your opinion has equal legal weight to SNP mouthpieces speaking then. None.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

And you may repeat “nothing of legal standing” as you please - it is a piece of misdirection regardless of how often it is repeated.

The very practice of holding referendums in our constitution can only ever be advisory in nature. Everything about the way they are conducted is built on a shared understanding of what the outcome of the vote will be. The most the Edinburgh Declaration could say was that both sides would recognise the result as definitive. It was clear afterwards, from comments made by both SNP signatories to that agreement, what they considered definitive to be. Without caveat, this was “once in a generation, if not once in a lifetime.” We therefore all voted on the understanding that we had better do so thoughtfully because it was a one-off.

Nationalists are of course free in our democracy to go on arguing that black is white but that doesn’t alter the government’s absolutely reasonable decision to point out that 2014 produced a definitive result which it intends to respect. Sturgeon is of course free to go on publishing pie in the sky plans to do this that and the other, but she has publicly and repeatedly accepted the real constitutional position and knows she can’t pull off a referendum anyone outside the nationalist movement will take seriously without transfer of powers from this country’s only sovereign parliament.

Sturgeon’s primary objective is to appear sufficiently engaged with the indyref proposition so as not to be dismissed from party leadership by her own hardliners. But she knows that the real prize is not to hold a publicity stunt vote, but to win a legally watertight referendum.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:zzz:

Oh thank you, for giving me the permission to repeat it as I please, so just to confirm, I’ve got permission from you, on my own property to do something. Gee thanks for granting me this right. :erm:

But just to correct you. It’s not my preference for it not to happen. But the Scottish people themselves, who voted in 2014, in a once in a generation referendum.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I was referring to holding a referendum, not independence itself. The will of the Scottish people can only be measured in Scottish Parliamentary elections and from who they send to Westminster as MPs.

I know it’s quite rare on Cable Forum but we could just move past this point noting that we will never agree on it?

If the SNP win a majority and London reject an independence referendum I’ll hold my hands up on that point. It’s here in black and white that it’s my guess.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

It’s not misdirection. It’s politically unsustainable to reject a referendum and the UK Government know that. It would simply be saving up problems for when a legally watertight referendum does take place.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The committee doesn't actually contradict the report as far as I can see.

Hamilton said he accepted that Sturgeon did not knowingly mislead Parliament and left the question on if they were misled at all to Parliament itself. Crucially this meant he found she did not break the Ministerial Code because it specifies you need to knowingly mislead Parliament to break it.

The committee found she did mislead Parliament but not knowingly.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is an assertion that will be tested soon enough.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I admire your optimism that our politicians won’t get a good few years of arguing about it. Legislation, threatening court proceedings, strongly worded letters ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You forgot resignations, political ship jumping, appeal courts etc ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Alba party

Alex Salmond becomes leader of new pro-independence Alba Party
Scotland's former first minister Alex Salmond has re-entered frontline politics to become the new leader of the pro-independence Alba Party.

The party was registered with the Electoral Commission in January by retired TV producer Laurie Flynn, who is making way for Mr Salmond.

Alba Party will have candidates in the Scottish Parliament elections on 6 May.

Mr Salmond said in a statement: "Today I'm announcing the public launch of a new political force, the Alba Party.
https://news.sky.com/story/alex-salm...party-12257381

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A "list-only" party. Could get messy.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I genuinely misread it as ""Today I'm announcing the public launch of a new political farce, the Alba Party." and am now chuckling at the aptness of this. :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What I will add though, is that if the UK Government decide that pro-independence parties 'gamed' the system to put more pro-independence MSPs into the Scottish Parliament it could be politically sustainable grounds to reject another referendum.

Salmond is talking about 90+ seats. While theoretically possible, getting such an absurd amount on say 49% of the vote would erode any such mandate. The SNP/Greens have always had the potential for such an anomaly but I don't think anyone can accuse either party of meaningfully acting against the spirit of the system. Salmond is.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The BBC Alba channel is going to have to change its name !
Predict some deposits will be lost for some fat blokes ego.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

i wish someone had posted a picture of sturgeon's face when he announced this.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Oh blessed day. This election really is going to be fun. If the Alba party shaves off a few of the real heidbangers they may get enough votes to deny the SNP a few seats without actually winning any themselves, thanks to the PR-ish system we use here. That would be hilariously counter-productive.

The other possibility is that the Alba Party has such mass appeal that it picks up votes the SNP wouldn’t have, in which case we’re heading for a comfortable nationalist majority in Holyrood, split across Alba and SNP. Goodness only knows how Nicola would bring herself to go into a coalition with Alex if that happened.

I don’t think the latter scenario is very likely with Alex Salmond in charge though. I just don’t see Brand Salmond as being attractive to anyone who doesn’t already vote Nat, especially not while he’s leading a party with such a dog-whistle name.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In the first scenario the only impact on the SNP (as they're making it clear they are in this for a pro-independence supermajority) is the potential loss of the 4 "list" seats they hold. With the large number of votes it takes for the SNP to get anyone off the list it's hard to see how they'd (Salmond) not win seats. Could be a worrying time for the Greens though who generally rely on a 5-6% drop off of SNP first votes in the list.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

My impression is the party won't gain much traction. I am hoping it does divide the nationalists in the way the unionists are divided though.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

He needs to get nationalist voters to vote SNP for the constituency and Alba for the list in order for that strategy to work. It's tactical voting on a grand scale, using an electoral system that is still not very familiar to Scottish voters. The list system isn't used for Westminster elections, it's not used for the councils and it wasn't used for the Devo/AV/Indy/Eu referendums. The indications are that unless they have a strong niche interest (Greens, for example), people vote for the same party on the constituency and on the list.

Salmond's difficulty is that the SNP is already slagging him off in the press, so the chances of very large numbers of loyal SNP voters giving him their list vote must seem remote. Tactically, the SNP should be leaving him alone and letting him make his case - as you say, the SNP has so many constituency seats that they don't get much out of the list top up anyway. They have nothing to gain by attacking a party that isn't really contesting the same set of seats as they are. I don't think they're going to be able to get past the personality of the person leading the party though.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Just thinking aloud what would Salmond’s price be to prop up an SNP minority given his recent troubles?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I suspect on all issues barring plans for a referendum he'd want to negotiate. I can't see him being interested in a coalition. Issue by issue gives him more power. If he did go for a full coalition the price would have to be a referendum at the very earliest opportunity. I suspect he is thinking a comfortable nationalist majority in Holyrood would give them sufficient moral cover to press ahead without Westminster agreement.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I was thinking more around personalities involved in the upper echelons of Government/SNP who he might blame for his strife.

I agree with you on issues tho.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Great description.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Krankies head on a plate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Apparently 6% of the (second) vote is where the Alba party could start to prove problematic across the regions.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Krankie's not happy.

Source, Sky News.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

LMFAO

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I know everyone loves an FT link here's John Major saying Westminster shouldn't refuse a second referendum and instead make a positive case for the union and a new constitutional settlement.

https://amp.ft.com/content/8d751854-...mpression=true

Article can be accessed by using Google "John Major: Westminster should not refuse Scotland a referendum"

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is excellent.

For Salmond’s strategy to work, he needs to get large numbers of SNP voters to vote SNP for their constituency and then for the Alba Party on the regional list. But the SNP has gone straight into full-scale attack mode so it’s clearly not going to play along. If Salmond’s party is a flop, he may simply end up siphoning off enough SNP votes to lose them their list seats without gaining them for himself. He certainly isn’t going to get his supermajority unless the SNP starts genuinely cooperating with him.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The latest Survation poll has the SNP winning a majority off the constituencies alone. In that eventuality it’d be almost impossible to take anything off the list.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Alex Salmnd ally MP Kenny MacAskill quits SNP for Alba Party
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-56550195

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They need 65 seats for a majority. To get all of those from the constituencies would be quite an achievement - even in 2011, they only got 53 seats, on 45.4% of the vote. At present they have 59 on 46.5%. If their constituency vote goes up any higher, exactly where in the country it’s going up will make a big difference to how many more seats it translates into.

You have a point though, they do tend to do slightly less well on the list vote, by a couple of points. The greens seem to be the main beneficiaries of that as things stand.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They won 56 of 59 constituencies in the UK General Election in 2015, not standing in Michael Martin’s seat. So while it’d be an achievement it’s not without precedent in Scotland.

I do think that’s what will make the election fascinating viewing. A few percentage points either way impacts on the swing seats and the list is designed to compensate but doesn’t always perfectly - as you say it depends where the gains/losses are. SNP list votes do trend lower by around 5% with the main beneficiary the Greens as you say.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

All this agreeing with each other is disconcerting.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As I've said to others there's no point getting bogged down in the things we won't agree on. Any political observer, on either side, has to acknowledge it makes for fascinating viewing. Which I think should make for fascinating discussion which I look forward to over the next 7 weeks or so.

Plus the aftermath I guess.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

BREAKING: Neale Hanvey MP (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) has left the Scottish National Party and joined the Alba Party.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Who?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Isn't that councillor Kenny, can't remember why I know him but think he was way out of his depth in something that took the worlds attention for a fortunately brief time not so long ago

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Ah that'll be a reference to Kenny releasing the "Lockerbie bomber" who probably didn't do it after 8.5 years.

He had terminal cancer and lived 2.75 years, and still probably didn't plant the bomb.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I think you're right, he was so far out of his depth it was embarrassing, no wonder Ian Blackford said it was a relief to be rid of him

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I really. Dread to think what would happen if they got their way, we are to old to leave Scotland and would hate to be ruled by the SNP , They are so full of hate and believe they are correct all the time, Scotland must waken up and realise what they are! I really worry about what the future is for Scotland,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

"Full of hate" such uninspiring and divisive rhetoric. The kind of thing I'd strongly advise unionists against as it's simply perpetuating and entrenching their problem at the ballot box.

Believing Scotland could self-govern better than it is being governed from London isn't a hateful pursuit. Portraying it as such is denying the right of Scottish people to self-determination - be that a decision to remain in the UK or independence.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You could still vote in another political party, post independence.

And aren't you ruled by the SNP now to some extent?