Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Long time follower of the thread and fantastic to see so many people standing up against this, finally decided to post...

Speaking of YouTube videos... not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but there appears to be an actual PhormComms YouTube channel with Kent answering some "FAQ's". Although it is literally just him reading out the copy and paste answers that frankly I'm getting a bit bored of hearing!

Also noticed that Alexanders paper got an honorable mention on an article over on TorrentFreak the other day so its really hitting all corners of the net!

Just want to say a massive thanks to everyone on this thread for all the active work that you have done to bring this to light, and if Virgin are reading this... how disappointed I am that they are even humouring this.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I have sent an email to Lord Triesman, (parliamentary Under Secretary for Innovation, Universities and Skills) politely drawing his attention to the ISPA statement about packet inspection, and also noting his stand against intellectual property theft - and asking if he could expand his focus on teenage file sharers, to consider the issue of illegal actions by BT during 2006 and 2007. I have also given him the relevant links to assist his enquiries includig the legal analyses by FIPR/Bohm and Alexander Hanff and Dr Clayton's technical analysis.

Not sure if those who are in contact with Lord Northesk might like to draw his attention to the Lord Triesman and ISPA remarks in that BBC article?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: alias69

I did notice all the K*nt crap videos on there, too; it's just sad that the git won't release the video we all want to see. I do like the fact that he got not one positive comment in reply to any of his spin. :dunce:

btw. make sure you check out Kursk's post here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post5762.html, and work your way through that list.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If your fairly quick you can catch Alexanders clash with the evil Kent on the BBC iplayer, on Sundays "click", good for you Alex.:tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There are plenty on youtube but not the ones from the public meeting. There is also one placed on by you guessed it phorm making them look like th eknight with shinning armour.

This was interesting though since it says phorm have been doing this for years in the UK!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDtYLs1FhzY

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

the proof of BT's interception live..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZjeckpUXY

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sod his opinion, being american im sure hes better at it than most.

Besides you might as well blow your trumpet, i mean theres more than enough people out in the world ready to put you down, you shouldnt have to do that yourself ;)

/me is all for self promotion.

And besides, whats better, gaining publicity and a reputation from doing something worthwhile.

Or getting one by being an idiot running a company with a shady past and holding the opinion that everything you do is in the best interests for everyone on the face of the earth?

Blow your own trumpet i say, youve got a right to be proud of your achievments.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here is an interesting little thread. Seems Phorm is not popular with affiliate networks either:

(Source: Affiliates4U)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

An interesting find but one I feel that if phorm does sign up to use their networkl for advertising then the customers identity will become known to the phorm number/ customer ip/customername/address/banking (if they actually purchase).

There is no way to send someone targeted adverts without someone being able to reconnect everything if the person buys. There fore if this is forced on the customers best advice is to go back to buying in the high street and drop the online shopping like a hot potato.


Love the second one since that is what they said would happen they replace adverts on sites that have them to relevant ones. The stumbling block is who is guilty of the spyware is it Phoirm who are inciting the ISPs to break the laws or the ISP for allowing the spyware?

Since most people copyright their websites what is there to stop the site owner adding in that if any adverts are altered that this woudl be seen as spyware?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've emailed Lord Triesman as follows:

Dear Lord Triesman

I am writing to you to follow up some comments you made in a BBC news article from October 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7059881.stm

The article was about internet file sharing and included an interesting comment by the ISPA (Internet Service Providers Association)
Quote from article:
The Internet Service Providers Association has always maintained that it cannot be held responsible for illegal peer-to-peer traffic because it is "merely a conduit" of such material.
"ISPA does not support abuses of copyright and intellectual property theft," said an ISPA spokesman.
He said: "However, ISPs cannot monitor or record the type of information passed over their network. ISPs are no more able to inspect and filter every single packet passing across their network than the Post Office is able to open every envelope."
"ISPs deal with many more packets of data each day than postal services and data protection legislation actually prevents ISPs from looking at the content of the packets sent," he added.
End of quote from article

You indicated in that article that " intellectual property theft would not be tolerated."

You may be aware of a new tracking and interception technology called Webwise, being promoted by a company called Phorm.Inc (formerly spyware and rootkit producers 121Media), CEO Kent Ertugrul.

Kent Ertugrul is claiming "we can see the whole internet" and his technology actually employs Deep Packet Inspection, to intercept and profile ALL packets in the data stream between ISP customers and the network and the websites they visit.

So the claim by ISP's that they "cannot inspect and filter every single packet passing across their network" is now no longer true. There is a technology, marketed by Phorm for exactly this process, being considered by the three largest ISP's in the UK, covering at least 75% of the consumer ISP market - the companies are BT (who have already secretly and illegally trialled this technology without customer (or website owner) informed consent, in fact without any consent at all), and Virgin Media and TalkTalk (owned by Carphone Warehouse).

You can see Phorm's own claims for this product at their website, www.phorm.com and www.webwise.net
You can see BT's own explanations of this technology at http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.html

This involves, according to privacy watchdog FIPR, a number of illegalities, regarding the interception and redirection of internet traffic at the most basic level of the internet, known as Layer 7, as well as the abuse of the intellectual content rights of webmasters who are going to find that when a Webwise linked customer visits their site, the entire unique personal data exchange between the site and the visitor will be profiled by Phorm/Webwise, to enable Phorm/Webwise to target ads at the site visitor based on their analysis of content of the website and the site visitors overall browsing habits. Phorm will be reading (without the informed consent of the webmaster, and without the webmaster being given a way of selectively excluding or blocking the Webwise profiling) and profiling the content of the website, for their own financial advantage.

ICO have clearly indicated that such technology requires consumer opt-IN.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/about_us/news_...e_and_oie.aspx
In the secret BT trials of 2006 and 2007 (initially denied by BT in response to customer and even press enquiries) there was NO customer or content provider consent. In the systems currently being promoted by Phorm/Webwise, the marketing model preferred by Kent Ertugrul is opt-OUT, clearly contrary to the ICO statement.

In the light of your comments on the issue of file sharing, I thought you might be interested in pursuing this matter and in particular urging the government to respond to the questions being asked (21st April) about this technology by Lord Northesk of the Science and Technology Committee
http://www.publications.parliament.u..._2140_wad.html
and to the Early Day Motion in the Commons, promoted by Don Foster MP
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDe...52&SESSION=891

Further concern is caused by the fact that BT carried out secret trials of this technology and so far no action has been taken against what appears to be several breaches of Data Protection legislation, Fraud Act, Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act and Protection of Electronic Communications regulations. Attempts by affected BT customers who suffered actual harm as a result of the 2006 and 2007 secret BT Webwise trials to report this matter to their local police and also to central regulators such as the ICO, have resulted in complainants being referred to the Home Office who have insisted that is not their remit, and to this date, NO action has been taken by any regulatory authority about these alleged breaches of legislation by BT.

It appears that while teenage file sharers are quickly arrested and prosecuted or subject to civil action, a large corporation like BT can break the law with impunity.

Further research on Phorm and Webwise may be done by entering "phorm" into the search box at www.theregister.co.uk or at the BBC news site. The current search list is here
Register - http://search.theregister.co.uk/?q=phorm
BBC - http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear...oolbar&q=phorm

There are a number of useful links here
FIPR legal analysis of this technology - http://www.fipr.org/080423phormlegal.pdf
Legal analysis of BT secret trials in 2006 and 2007 - http://www.paladine.org.uk/phorm_paper.pdf
Technical analysis of the webwise technology by Dr Richard Clayton of Cambridge University
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf

General link farm on Phorm/Webwise
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/attributions.htm

Thank you very much for your attention in this matter.
I will be publishing this email on internet forums and hope to publish your reply unless you indicate to the contrary.

If anyone else wants to do likewise? Remember Lord Triesman is a member of the government.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: for R Jones. Good work there. I will be emailing Lord Triesman this afternoon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Simon is between a rock and a hardplace. He has already stated that Privacy International received a total donation of £130 from the public to show for all his free voluntary privacy work. He setup a limited company for wages and profit in order to provide himself and his family a living, you can't blame a guy for selling out when he gets next to nothing for his privacy work. That is why I feel sorry for Simon, he's had to damage his own credibility and integrity by placing himself into Kent Ertugrul's top pocket (that is truely sickening).

People please understand Simon must feed his family as well. Try and put yourself in the mind of prison guard at Auschwitz-Birkenau the inhumanity of those death camps, yet the guard was only following orders under duress - but they still have to live with a lifetime of remorse and guilt afterwards. It's the madmen like Hitler, Himmler (Kent Ertugrul, Stratis Scleparis, Emma Sanderson) who are the architects of these atrocities... Simon his merely a camp guard putting privacy in the furnace at the behest of the evil overlords.

If you want to do something send Privacy International £10 or something as a gesture of sympathy for what Simon has to do!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With Kent keep saying it is privacy international that has given phorm the pass he is infact tainting that also what saddens me is Simon doesn't correct Kent when he missleads the public yet it is the public that Simon used to protect. Once phorm goes live all the work privacy international does will be devalued all over the world.
As the saying is it only takes one bad apple in this case kent to turn the barrel.

It is only us now fighting to stop this intrusion into our privacy we have no other protection there is nothing out there but alexander now and the fact thet customers can leave to join ISPs who do value their customers, treat them as human beings with rights and not just another number to con.

Perhaps the best thing Simon could do is not publish this report at all since Kent has already broken promises to Simon, one being the Video which is still mising on another note seems strage the only live videos on the internet has now been hacked twice only winner Kent. Are BT, VM and talktalk really willing to become accomplacies in this type suspicious links.
Would anyone ever trust their business plans again with the phorm on the network, past history on phorm management, can they be sure he will only harvest what he said and nothing would ever make the customer identifyable. Are they prepared to face the consequencies if a customer ended up being identified by the phorm system to hackers, con artists etc?

Who needs phorm whe Yahoo can protect the surfer as they search.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7385285.stm with no links like the ISP to persoanl data IE. Name, Address and bank details..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My biggest concern is that Simon has an agreement with Phorm that if they use and publish any statements from his report that the full report must be published. We all know just how good Kent is at selective quoting!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My biggest concern is this whole Phorm saga might damage the one good thing Simon had his good reputation which in turn will devalue all his future work with Privacy international.