Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

Many Conservative ministers are frustrated by the deliberate stalling and pushback on policy issues by civil servants who are opposed to them. The government then has to take the brunt of these failures and it makes them look bad.

Do you really think future Conservative governments are going to put up with this behaviour when they take office in the future?

The whole existence of our system was predicated on the basis that officers would adopt a neutral position and faithfully advise and implement policies of whichever government was in power at the time. This balance is no longer in evidence, so unless the civil service can reform itself, politicians will have to make it happen.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1703621727

OLD BOY

26-12-2023 20:44

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36167226)

I find this hard to believe, I presume you have evidence to back this up.

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

Once again, another example of people who disagree with them hijacking your comments without providing any proof to the contrary. This is how one shuts down the discussion.

Paul	26-12-2023 20:55

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36167237)

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

So .. no then, you dont have any. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36167237)

Once again, another example of people who disagree with them hijacking your comments without providing any proof to the contrary.

If you come into a topic and state "the moon is made of cheese" then you should be able to back that up if asked, its not up to others to provide "proof to the contrary" (of course, they can if they want).

jfman

26-12-2023 21:23

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36167237)

I read the newspapers and I hear what Conservative MPs are saying.

The news media and Conservative MPs, organisations well known for their commitment to the truth. :rofl:

1andrew1

26-12-2023 21:35

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167232)

How dare they?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...tain-transport

Comedy gold. :D

If the EU had included us on the map, how would the Br'Express have reacted?

Quote:

Chuff off! Scheming EU civil servants' plans revealed to control Britain's transport policy!

Quote:

EU bureaucrats forget we've left! Seven years after the historic vote, dozy Brussels bureaucrats are still including us on their transport policy maps.

OLD BOY

27-12-2023 08:34

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36167238)

So .. no then, you dont have any. ;)

If you come into a topic and state "the moon is made of cheese" then you should be able to back that up if asked, its not up to others to provide "proof to the contrary" (of course, they can if they want).

You may try to deny the truth to suit your own political agenda and attempt to rubbish anyone who disagrees with you by ttying to humiliate them, but people aren't stupid - they see what you are doing.

You don't need me to provide you with proof because the proof is out there and you can look it up for yourself if you really want to show that a poster is wrong.

In this case, I did just one Google search and came up with this one at the top of the list. And...guess what? It's a Guardian article. So it must be legitimate, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-raab-scandal

Hugh	27-12-2023 08:54

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

“There is no civil service activism, there is no civil service passive aggression, there is no separate civil service agenda. I saw no evidence of a small group of activists trying to undermine a minister. The issue is a minister’s behaviour.”

Meanwhile, back to reality…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67795075

Quote:

The government has confirmed it is not planning to change the rules on selling in imperial measures after Brexit.

Ministers looked at changing laws inherited from the EU that mean traders can use Britain's traditional weighing system only alongside the metric one.

But they have now decided not to, after nearly 99% of respondents to an official consultation said they were happy with kilos and litres.

I bet the Civil Servants fiddled the results, to thwart Johnson’s promise… :rolleyes:

jfman

27-12-2023 09:22

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36167244)

In this case, I did just one Google search and came up with this one at the top of the list. And...guess what? It's a Guardian article. So it must be legitimate, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-raab-scandal

Nobody has disputed that the lazy trope is a CCHQ attack line that some are well versed in to deflect from Government incompetence or inadequacy. To find it referenced in an article where a Minister has been forced out in disgrace is unsurprising, perhaps even expected.

We've asked for evidence of it actually happening.

Sephiroth

27-12-2023 09:25

Re: Britain outside the EU

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

jfman

27-12-2023 09:39

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167247)

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

One person leaving the Civil Service to work for a political party does not support the sweeping generalisation.

Lord Frost was a civil servant in times gone by, now he's a Conservative peer.

Hugh	27-12-2023 09:40

Re: Britain outside the EU

Just repeatedly saying something doesn’t make it a fact - a fact is something supported by proof, not a feeling…

1andrew1

27-12-2023 10:22

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36167244)

Old Boy, I can't see a political agenda on Paul's part here - he is just asking you to provide some evidence.

From court rooms to forums, the burden of proof is with the person making a statement to back it up with evidence. Not on someone else to disprove it.

You've begrudgingly attempted to find some supporting evidence here but the article does not evidence your claim that there is

Quote:

...deliberate stalling and pushback on policy issues by civil servants

ianch99

27-12-2023 10:38

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36167247)

There are two facts:

1. The Civil Service is generally leftist, of which Sue Gray is a leading example.

2. The current government is incompetent.

1. No proof

2. Proof

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