Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

There's always a trade-off in sovereignty v global influence and prosperity. I think if this trade off had been acknowledged at the time by Brexiters, the economics would not need pointing out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36164914)

Covid & Ukraine have completely eclipsed the economic effects of Brexit.

I'm afraid those two situations don't give you a get out of jail free card for Brexit.

Sephiroth

24-11-2023 17:22

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36164921)

You should be concerned by an 11% increase in costs making British companies less competitive. They're the country's future.

There's always a trade-off in sovereignty v global influence and prosperity. I think if this trade off had been acknowledged at the time by Brexiters, the economics would not need pointing out.

I'm afraid those two situations don't give you a get out of jail free card for Brexit.

Well, it does. I said 'eclipse'. Since we cannot say what would have happened had Covid/Ukraine not happened, we have a new baseline from which to grow.

As to your expected comment that British companies were made 'less competitive' by the 11%, I don't see that. I think you mean that imported goods cost them more than before for the reasons given by the professor. At worst, the profits of British business might have taken a hit, but the consumer appears not to have felt that. In other words, competitiveness held retail prices down. British business will find ways of increasing profit and that was always going to be the case.

We are a sovereign country now. The squabbling between EU countries will continue and we surely wouldn't want to be part of that any more.

1andrew1

24-11-2023 17:40

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36164926)

There are reliable ways of modelling how the UK would have fared without Brexit.

Consumers and share prices have all felt it. There's no magic trick to increase profitability in a globally competitive market.

Nothing wrong with robust discussions in forums and between countries. It's what keeps us all so young on Cable Forum. :)

Sephiroth

24-11-2023 17:53

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36164932)

I was impressed with the analysis made by the professor that you referenced.

None of that makes it a bad thing in the round to have left the EU and be free of diktat from Brussels (a topic you and your Remainer cohort can't counter).

The 'magic trick' to increase productivity is innovation leading to sales growth. For that to succeed, we need an investment friendly government rather than the shitshow on current offer.

Ms NTL

24-11-2023 19:26

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36164911)

Presumably your son has reported Santander to the ICO.
Right?

Nope. Thanks. I told him to do so.

Hugh	25-11-2023 09:09

Re: Britain outside the EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates

Quote:

2d ago

16.42 GMT

Rees-Mogg suggests, if farmers can't produce fruit without foreign pickers, UK should just import it instead

Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg, the former business secretary, told Radio 4’s The World at One that he was “embarrassed” as a Conservative by today’s net migration figures, which show the party is failing to keep the promise it made at the 2019 election. (See 11.33am.) He said:

This is a phenomenally high level with economic consequences … I’m embarrassed that we haven’t achieved what we set out to achieve.
Rees-Mogg said the level of legal migration was a more serious problem than people crossing the Channel on small boats. “In terms of the numbers, the small boats is a distraction,” he said.

Asked if he agreed with Suella Braverman’s call for a cap on net migration numbers (see 4.06pm), Rees-Mogg said that this would be one way of reducing the numbers.

And when it was put to him that the UK needed to allow foreign workers to come to the country to pick fruit, he said he didn’t agree. He explained:

We don’t need fruit pickers. If fruit can be grown more cheaply and more economically in foreign countries, we should import fruit and focus on our competitive advantage.

jfman

25-11-2023 09:18

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Rees-Mogg said the level of legal migration was a more serious problem than people crossing the Channel on small boats. “In terms of the numbers, the small boats is a distraction,” he said.

If migration is a problem, he’s right about this bit.

denphone

25-11-2023 09:40

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36164958)

If migration is a problem, he’s right about this bit.

And many of those legal migrants work in the NHS and Social Care services where there are still chronic staff shortages across both sectors.

Sephiroth

25-11-2023 09:56

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36164958)

If migration is a problem, he’s right about this bit.

You're right too ... but -

There is a principle involved with the boats.

The people coming here are refugees from France, interested either on what they can get/take here, or on committing crimes. In principle, they must be stopped. A competent government could have done that.

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36164959)

And many of those legal migrants work in the NHS and Social Care services where there are still chronic staff shortages across both sectors.

I can't dispute that - these professions are a good case for managed immigration. Just needs a government that can manage this.

OLD BOY

25-11-2023 10:14

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

We don’t need fruit pickers. If fruit can be grown more cheaply and more economically in foreign countries, we should import fruit and focus on our competitive advantage.

That is a sensible position to take as a matter of principle, but not where food is concerned. We are dangerously exposed if we rely on imports for food.

jfman

25-11-2023 10:24

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36164964)

That is a sensible position to take as a matter of principle, but not where food is concerned. We are dangerously exposed if we rely on imports for food.

It’s a dangerous position to take as a “matter of principle”.

If something can be made cheaper in another country ignores the fact someone, or a company, making it here pays income tax and other taxes. The people involved spend money in our towns and communities.

Hugh	25-11-2023 12:25

Re: Britain outside the EU

Interesting interview with the new Home Secretary in the Times today - he seems more interested in process and results than in headlines.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9...ec87667577eaaa

On a related note, he seems to have "joined up" thinking, rather than just dog-whistling - for instance, Braverman’s proposal to raise the required job salary level for potential immigrants to £40 would have detrimentally affected the Social Care and Health sectors, and her proposal to limit University Visas would have impacted U.K. students, as Overseas students fees subsidise U.K. students (as their £9,250 fees do not, on average, cover the cost of their tuition).

TheDaddy

25-11-2023 12:48

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36164964)

That is a sensible position to take as a matter of principle, but not where food is concerned. We are dangerously exposed if we rely on imports for food.

To bad, we were warned brexit would destroy British farming by Patrick bloody Minford of all people amongst others and voted for it anyway, we'll just have to suck it up but remember, nothing reeks of sovereignty more than relying on other countries for your food

Sephiroth

25-11-2023 16:55

Re: Britain outside the EU

A very interesting article by Kuenssberg explaining the political dilemma of immigration, blending various opinions given in this forum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67530919

Quote:

Questions politicians can't seem to answer on immigration

First few paragraphs below.

Politicians all seem very cross about the numbers of people from around the world making the UK their home. And they nearly all seem to agree that old chestnut, that "something must be done".

Just wait until they look in the mirror and realise who came up with the new immigration system under which the levels have risen so much (and witness the former prime minister, Boris Johnson, raging in his newspaper column at the folly of the system that he himself introduced).

But the outrage in the last few days, real or not, is no substitute for answers to a set of questions that politicians must confront if they really want change - and many of them are difficult to answer.

She's absolutely right. Heads you lose; tails you don't win.

1andrew1

26-11-2023 10:46

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36164969)

Indeed
- Reduced food self-sufficiency - tick
- Everyone on average worse off by £2k+ pa - tick
- Inability to return unlawful migrants to France - tick
- Decreased productivity - tick
- Lowest economic growth in Europe except Germany - tick

But in fairness, we do have Polish-printed blue passports so it's not all bad!

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