Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

[QUOTE=Flyboy;35137043]He was in a wheelchair, the clue is in "wheelchair."



In all the training I have had, I have never heard of anyone suggest that the most effective way of getting a disabled person to safety is tip them out the wheelchair and drag them across the road. Just think about it. You first of all have to tip them out, not that easy really. Then get them to let go of the chair. Then drag them, struggling, across a road. If we are to believe Derek about the brakes, what is wrong with,......ooh I don't know.....undoing the brakes, perhaps. Not that difficult to do, just a little lever.
QUOTE]


who said he was tipped ?,it certainly isn't very clear from that video that is another one of your anti police assumption

I am not, believe it or not, anti-police. I do an awful lot locally to support our police and help promote their reputation, I am a member of the local neighbourhood watch and I think on the whole our police do a fantastic job. What I am against, however, is anyone with authority, abusing that power. Like tipping disabled people out of wheelchairs, especially when a far more logical, effective and safer method is available.


are you serious ? every single time that a police thread comes up you are one of the most vocal to vilify them

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:rolleyes:

Balance easiest and safest. If someone doesn't want to be moved you move them. End of story.

Would you be happier if he was cuffed to the chair to stop him moving his arms while he was wheeled away?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

What the hell are you talking about now? I swear your posts are getting more and more detached from reality as we go along. If people want to protest, as is their democratic right then get on with it.

But if people think they can riot while doing so then they deserve a water cannon.

The only noise around here is what you keep spouting about how you'd do it better than the police.

Tell you what, why not join up as a Special. In fact I know why not - you wouldn't last 2 minutes.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I don't think you understood, I was referring to the ones who weren't "kicking off." The vast majority of them who were taking part in peaceful protest. The ones who went to the places they were supposed to and went home without incident. Should they be considered to be justifiably suppressed?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Maybe there were snooker balls incoming? Maybe lit flares? Maybe firecrackers? Maybe other debree?

Maybe, just maybe there was a clear and present danger to the wheelchair bound 'protester' that made the Police remove him for his own safety.

You and I were not there so i guess we will never know, apart from what the guy has said and by all accounts he is a 'professional protester' (from what I read earlier in the thread) so make of that what you will.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Ah i see more more common sense is required ,the ones who weren't "kicking off" can simply go a different way to the ones who are "kicking off" and do there peacefull protesting else where whilst leaving the others to get wet

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

From what I remember being told about "democratic oversight" (again the clue is in the question), it has to be debated via the democratic process. That means parliament, involving all parties, not just government ministers. Because if it was just the ministers of one party, that would not satisfy the "democratic" bit.

That was not that clear at all. The footage was very blurred and the audio was fragmented. That aside, there was no justifiable need to tip him out of his chair and drag him across the road. Simply wheeling him would have done the trick. Pulling his arms away from the wheels would have prevented him from obstructing them. That wouldn't have been that difficult for the two officers to have done.

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

I am sure you have and quite justifiably so, but have you ever tipped a paraplegic from a wheelchair and dragged him across the road?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No. I do not think that *you* understand.

The peaceful ones need not fear anything as they have not done anything wrong.

The ones that kick off get it. All along the lines of if you have not done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.

Is that clearer?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

They certainly have the capacity to be, just look at the miners' strike and you will have your answer. However, I am sure things are little different nowadays, but it can so easily change.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Notice you ignored my question.

Please stop pretending to be an impartial libertarian.

If it was an EDL / BNP protest targeting Labour party HQ, you'd be on here moaning that the Police didn't do enough... :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Let's imagine there was a car coming. Mr Wheelchair didn't know it was coming and wasn't listening to the cop who telling him to get out of the way. Cop tries to move him, Wheelchair reiterates he's not going anyway. Cop now has no time to remove the brakes, carefully wheel him to safety or whatever it is you're suggesting. Instead the only option left to the cop to get this guy out of the way of the car is to grab him out of the chair and out of the way of the car.

Hypothetical yes, dumbed down so maybe you'll understand it, definitely.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

One doesn't have to be a police officer to have some common sense. It really is much easier to move someone, still in their wheelchair than drag them, struggling, across a road.


But then neither do you, we can only speculate what the protester was saying, but the image of him being tipped out his chair and dragged across the road, was clear enough.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

[QUOTE=Flyboy;35137064]From what I remember being told about "democratic oversight" (again the clue is in the question), it has to be debated via the democratic process. That means parliament, involving all parties, not just government ministers. Because if it was just the ministers of one party, that would not satisfy the "democratic" bit.

QUOTE]

so if you already know why ask and say that a change a law would be needed ,because that is quite clearly not the case


Well from that "very blurred" footage (and it was i agree )you seem to have come to the conlusion that he was tipped out and totally unwilling to accept any other explanation

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

There are pictures of him at the front of the 'battle lines' with people behind him, jostling him, carrying sticks(some dropped and visible on the ground), and covering their faces. One was even carrying, what seems to be a makeshift shield. His brother looks back at someone grabbing him from behind. They were hardly in the peaceful section. At the very least the Police would have been unable to take action on the people behind him as he would have been in the way,