Re: Coronavirus
 

Yea you could be right, locally the town is known as sandwich town,cos we're all in bred:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

My God, and that's just contemplating easing of the restrictions!

Everybody, stop thinking!! :shocking:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The one good thing we have is plenty of experience in ignoring internationally recognised best practice on dealing with pandemics.

It will not work.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm looking forward to the lockdown easing.

But the number of deaths in the UK v other European countries does concern me. Am I right to be concerned?

The countries with the largest number of CV-19 deaths on 29 May were:
UK: 324
Italy: 87
Sweden: 84

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes.

We’ve essentially reset the clock to mid February. What controls are in place now that were not then to prevent exponential spread?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure the forums resident viral experts will soon tell you. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I assume this is a wilfully dim question designed to provoke debate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Far from it. We know what happens with uncontrolled spread. It’s tried, tested and failed to sufficiently keep the number of serious cases (and deaths) down.

The lockdown was an emergency brake. Until we are in a position to quickly identify cases as they arise, trace and test known contacts there is a sense of inevitability about where this goes and further lockdowns become inevitable.

Washing your hands to God Save the Queen won’t cut it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seems it was unwillfully dim;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think opening up is more of a risk here than it was elsewhere as we do still have quite a few cases, the track and trace system isn't fulling up and neither is the app (surprise!) so we'll see..

On the other hand, I don't see how much longer they could maintain it. We're already having one of the longest lockdowns in Europe, albeit less strict, and you can only hold it so long.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The lockdown was an attempt to slow the spread of the virus down, not to stop it. That was never going to happen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Certainly done in the ineffective manner that the UK have managed the situation it would never stop the virus from spreading.

This will have longer term consequences in terms of trade and tourism - countries that have effectively managed the situation will keep the UK on a blacklist - e.g. Greece not admitting UK tourists due to our deaths/infection rate being too high.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Everywhere, in Europe at least is opening up again and so we have to. As Raab said this morning we can’t be in lockdown forever. It’s a balancing act and we gave to try and move one.......Stay alert, use common sense.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We don't have to anything simply because Europe is doing something, especially compared countries that either locked down earlier (Italy), harder (Spain) or simply managed the situation better (Germany).

We should manage the situation based on our experience here - what happened to take back control?

Re: Coronavirus
 

He took back control, and fancied a day trip to Barnard Castle to see the bluebells/test his eyesight, on his wife's Birthday, in the middle of a pandemic...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just saw this, made me laugh :)

Good night ..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just seen this, Tories back up to 10 point lead.

Westminster Voting Intention:

CON: 45% (+1)
LAB: 35% (-3)

Via @YouGov, 29-30 May.
Changes w/ 25-26 May.

Made me laugh, harder.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They were at 20% at the start of the month though. It's is quite an impressive fall although that fall did start happening before Cummings.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Steady!

Re: Coronavirus
 

As talked about earlier. Polling is pointless at most times, ven more so now. The next election is not until November 2024 (although they’ll probably move it to May)

So polls may be interesting to look at in around 3 years.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They’re still higher than they were elected in Dec 19. Labour losing ground with a new leader and government that supposedly losing credibility over Covid19 response.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Labour aren't losing ground with the new leader though because the Tories went higher after the election but before Starmer was elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...neral_election

In the poll before Starmer was elected the Tories were at 24% in the equivalent YouGov poll. At the start of the year they were at 20%.

Starmer has only been in the job two months and the polling average has halfed. Now that isn't just him, or just Cummings, as you say it's also the Covid 19 response.. Either way though the polling is narrowing:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2020/06/1.png

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed - polls indicate Labour aren't losing ground with the new leader though I appreciate there are a number of people who are sceptical of polls.
I think Starmer has performed very well in this crisis whilst it's been a mixed bag for the Conservatives. He's generally put himself above Cumminsgate and let the Conservative Party do what Labour used to - fight amongst themselves and weaken the leader's authority.
I think Labour's percentage has benefitted from the Liberal Democrats not having a permanent leader - I assume there will be an election this year. A successful Liberal Democrat leader could narrow the Labour-Conservative gap by chipping away at the Conservative vote.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What has he done?

Re: Coronavirus
 

It wasn't the tribal polling aspect I was commenting on. Rather the humour was sardonic, it seems that the lockdown is being relaxed more for political reasons than scientific ones. In fact, a number of the scientific advisors are uneasy with what has been announced:

Coronavirus: Scientists who advise government warn lockdown being eased too soon

Re: Coronavirus
 

The cynics amongst us would consider if the government were attempting to bribe the populace.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

He's been doing his job and the public have noticed. Be it asking the right questions in PMQ or being restrained in Cummingsgate. And behind the scenes he's been sorting out the issues in his party.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotec...clinical-trial

Link courtesy of Kevin.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's behind the scenes partly because the largely Conservative press are focused elsewhere. Just because it's not on the front page of the Telegraph doesn't mean it's not taking place. Anyway, don't want to take this thread off track. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some expansion on the timeline from the Oxford Vaccine Centre.

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/ph...rial-explained

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not sure what happened there, but I never said that about North Linconshire!

Re: Coronavirus
 

he's been smart, and knows when to keep his mouth shut and lay low.

When the crisis is over he will return to tell how he would have done it so much better.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think his next steps depend very much on how the return to normality goes. If things go badly, then the country will naturally want an inquisition. If they go well then he will focus on other areas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks for that Hugh applied for Phase II will let you know how it goes.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Coronavirus LIVE updates: No fatalities in two days in 69 trusts - UK reports 115 deaths

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...kdown-22118071

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good luck - I wanted to, but nearest are Sheffield and Hull, and you have to live within a certain distance of each (I don't... :( ).

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its pretty much normal for the popularity of whoever is in power to fall (and rise again) over their time in power.

Since the election is not until 2024, its really of little significance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As it is I am within the postcode area. It doesn't mean I'll be picked, just that I've applied.

Due to the urgency I assume I'll get a phone call sometime this coming week.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown effects could be causing hayfever
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...kdown-22118071

I can vouch for this, mine has been dreadful the last 2/3 weeks, often overpowering my tablets.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Schuessler Combination H keeps my Hayfever at bay. Has done for 30 years+. No idea whether they help keep CV away.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I misread that as “Preparation H" :shocked:

That would clear your sinuses... :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

A good leader of the opposition would be holding the government to account in a constructive way and point to practical alternative approaches to problems where there was disagreement.

Any idiot can sit there criticising.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sir Keir is doing the former successfully whilst Jeremy Corbyn struggled with the latter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I dont know about that, he did quite well at being an idiot.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m not sure let’s lift the lockdown and disproportionately put at risk BAME people because white, middle class people are having worse hayfever is something that’s likely to fly.

I could be wrong though, and if there’s a government to put a monetary value one it then it would be this one.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

WTF are you talking about.
I never suggested any such thing.
... and you wonder why you get banned from topics.
You're treading on thin ice if you start trolling with such stupidity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

tbh i think they've privately accepted there will be a lot more deaths from Covid, however the economy is now coming first. As long as the NHS doesn't get overwhelmed. It might make economic sense as long as its not one of your own family, or you now think you're immune...

Next winter will be the issue if there's no vaccine, and the usual increased admissions due to flu etc. The time to prepare for that is now, not wait for it. There should be increased taxes on those that can more than afford to pay. But will they do the right thing or just wait for events again?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

How do you expect to pay for it then old chap ? They'll get if from you one way or another ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Crowdfunding? every bugger else is doing it :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Possibly, if we could force Capt Tom to walk round his garden another 2,000,000 times that would help......

Borrowing seems to be the in thing, all very well when interest rates are low, but it's going cost the country a heck of a lot more in the long run. Very socialist too.

I don't think people have realised the economic impact yet or that many of those furloughed won't have a job to go back to.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

So yes , borrowing. ie. we pay back a lot more than we borrow over 50 to 60 years.... i.e. let the next generation deal with it (again), along with climate change and all the other crap we've bequeathed....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

. . . and is this 'borrow and pay back long term' acounting for all the borrowing we will need to be doing when we're all locked down this winter, and the next, and the next?

Lots of 'experts' say the virus will be around a long time ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sunak needs to take the opportunity to restructure taxes. Introduce a discrete NHS tax, reduce business rates on shops etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My solution is that the richest generation ever starts paying, instead of burdening the next generation. Time to get your wallet out, mind the moths....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes i bet you and John Redwood would love a flat income tax !
Make the poor poorer and the rich richer. Is he the MP/Sheriff of Nottingham ! :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

You put tax on large gambling winnings. If you are broke there won't be a lot of difference between winning £100M or £90M it's still life changing and there's an extra £10M in government coffers. Extend that to wins abroad, foreign lotteries and the like.

The difficulty would be defining "large win" so that lots of small wins accumulated would not be counted where maybe it should. Maybe everyone gets a winnings allowance and over that is taxed but policing and collecting that would be hard.

But whatever happens I bet (groan!) the really rich would find ways to avoid it, so I guess could really big winners, e.g. put the money abroad, have a credit card linked to that and away you go, the money never sees the UK, never taxed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you'd prefer austerity?

Re: Coronavirus
 

He prefers anything that involves attacking the current government. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Always good to get different ideas on things but a flat income tax rate has been shown not to work in the UK.
There's a lot of work that can be done to simplify taxation in the UK. But each successive government just makes it more complicated. Great for professional services firms and publishers of worthy tomes on the matter biut less so for the rest of us.
Amnyway, I digress, my final comment on the matter. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Matt Hancock called out by the Statitcs Authority "“The aim seems to be to show the largest possible number of tests, even at the expense of understanding,” Sir David David Norgrove, chair of the UK Statistics Authority wrote.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-06-02/...navirus-tests/

Full letter here:
https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....-testing-data/

Re: Coronavirus
 

If nobody seeks a test then the figures are always going to be low, unless you start dragging people off the streets to test them.


The question should be "how many tests a day could be performed, if required".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Never mind tests, the question really should be, why does the UK have the most Covid deaths in Europe? You have to look at those running the country really....

---------- Post added at 18:43 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

I prefer you and me reaching in our pockets and paying more tax OB ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you have more people bringing it into the country, then you will have more cases. If you then have inside gatherings(religious of whatever sort and others) of various sizes, then it's going to spread easily. If certain religious groups such as those in South Korea, don't mix much with others, that will limit spreading.


Too many people don't pay tax and therefore there's a disconnect between levels of spending and it's impact upon them. They wouldn't be bothered with voting for a trebling of spending, because it would have no direct effect on their income. The indirect effect is another matter, and one they wouldn't be made aware of.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Everybody pays tax, even children who spend their pocket money.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless they buy themselves socks.....or a turnip.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Does that include you, Mr K? And if so, could you give me your credit card details, because you sound such a sympathetic (albeit naive) person!

Re: Coronavirus
 

He wants to help the country, not you...

He has said in the past he is willing to pay more tax (as am I) - TANSTAAFL

Re: Coronavirus
 

This goes beyond milking the PAYE "cash cow". The system needs restructuring so that a Wealth tax replaces Income Tax. At that point, the perception of the tax burden and the reality of it will coalesce.

If you just attack the middle income sector without address the cash economy (at the low end) and the tax avoidence at the high end, you just add to the resentment. The burden needs to be shared and seen to be shared.

Addressing Mr K's point, a big obstacle is the power of the Boomer generation holds over this and previous Governments. Those who have more than most are unwilling to help those that have less - the fundamental flaw in the free market dogma. They may pretend that want to help but when it comes down to a change that impacts them directly there is always a problem.

The "price" of Covid will be high, very high .. in all sorts of ways and it will be a test of the ability of those that have more than most to justify their inability to contribute proportionally.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wealth tax experiment in France

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well nomadking, if not taxes, maybe we should axe all the benefits that half the forum seem to be claiming instead? (with some being hypocritical about anyone else that dares to claim....)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I already offered one old chap.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, not really. Tax rises on those that can afford them are the fairest option. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of some on benefits.

Then there's those that want spending cuts so they can be richer... The Tory policy has backfired with public services woefully under prepared, and under funded for the current crisis.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lets not wander off topic here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is no need for the snide remarks. My point was a reasonable one. As Paul says, it is not the place to explore this here but just to say that I am also a "Boomer" :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re valuating the council tax to current day values would help greatly towards the debt.I live in a crap area of Edinburgh and i am in band A tax band(value of house up to £27,000) my house is worth today (circa £140,000)

Hell, a single car garage in some parts of Edinburgh costs way more than £27,000!.

No wonder councils are struggling for cash with the obsolete council tax banding.

The SNP up here bribed us to vote for them by freezing council tax for a good number of years.Yes, it will effect me and yes, i would gladly pay the increase as we are all supposed "to be in this together".

Re: Coronavirus
 

What about pensioners on a fixed income how would they be able to pay more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Revaluation to 2020 prices wouldn’t make any difference to you, if your house was in a poor area in 1990 and still is today. Council tax works on relative values, so the cheapest houses are always in band A, regardless of their absolute value. Where revaluation makes a difference is in areas that were poor in 1990 and have gone through the “up and coming” phase, and are now fashionable. In such cases you can see houses move up a couple of bands and attract a higher council tax bill.

It’s also worth remembering that a council can revalue a house whenever it’s sold, so despite them having to do a reverse-inflation calculation to work out what its sale price would have been in 1990 terms, it can move up a band or two if its value has improved due to having had work done on it, or if the whole area has improved. We got caught out this way when we bought ours about 15 years ago. It had had an extension since its previous sale and went from band D to E because of what we paid for it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am a just recent pensioner and on a fixed income now. Tighten the belt slightly is the way forward!.A few less pints a week etc.I already eat crap so nothing to change there!. Obviously they could phase the increases yearly to achieve the correct council tax charge to reflect the current house prices say over 5 years till it reached the true level. All governments have shied away from this as it's a massive vote loser so,if this is to be done this is as good/bad time to do it as any.Council tax bands below.I am in band A,i should be in band G,look at the difference in payments.Yikes!.Think i will need to go tea total to cover the increase......

https://www.saa.gov.uk/council-tax/council-tax-bands/

https://cullenproperty.com/council-tax-bands-edinburgh/

Re: Coronavirus
 

An undeniably incompetent state of affairs. We're pissing in the dark when it comes to forming policies. I suspect Nick Hancock's head will roll.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-mess-11999797

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe sending MPs back to parliament wasn't such a good idea...
https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/03/busin...share.top.link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can we be surprised as JRM was warned it was not a wise idea sending MPs back to parliament.

l would suspect if the test comes back positive and he has got Coronavirus there will be a lot of MP's who will have to self isolate as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I can see the need to avoid looking hypocritical but the new policy excludes those who cannot attend in person for good reasons. And all the unnecessary time waiting to vote is neither safe nor a good use of time. But it's unlikely the right honourable member for the 19th century would maintain a 21st century solution for too long. ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Labour mp puts lives at risk for publicity stunt

https://twitter.com/BarryGardiner/st...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Is this an example of Starmers strong leadership.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Almost as good as someone insisting all MPs return to Parliament, to hear a minister who potentially has the virus in an enclosed place, then distributing the MPs round the country again. Top government !