re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Clearly, England and most of Wales want to leave to the EU. This vote if it does go to the leave camp, has clear implications for the country. Namely that London which is mainly foreign dominated and Scotland, are going in a totally different direction to the rest of the UK.

I'll be delighted if we leave the EU, but if Salmond and co call for a second independence referendum for Scotland, that will have far wider implications than toady's vote. But, if we have to say bye to the Scots too, so be it.

---------- Post added at 04:40 ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 ----------

BBC calls it for the leave camp.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

ITV TOO!!!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Leave passed the 75% mark first. Looks like they are going to win it, roughly 52% to 48%.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

And Sky

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If nothing else it'll be interesting to see the answers to the questions no one wanted to answer, like what happens now we're out

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Now we have to hope our politicians do far better then they have done up to now, project fear was never a good tactic and I'm glad it's failed not least because the message going forward is campaign positively and with good information. That was the biggest failing on both sides total lack of verifiable information leaving this very much an emotional referendum and once that was the case remain were not in for an easy time. Over the next few weeks personally I expect the markets and the EU to do everything they can to diminish the uk economy setting up another referendum so we can make the right choice.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

And the "experts" got it wrong yet again.:D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'd have changed my vote to leave if I'd known this was going to happen for sure, I joked about it the other day but it happened, couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of people either

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...eferendum.html

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

As I said earlier in the thread, I'd expect a financial meltdown on Brexit and that is now happening. So, to be fair to them, they were just telling the truth in the short term at least. But once all the fear has gone, there will be light at the end of the tunnel..... unless we block the tunnel (Channel Tunnel) up!:D:D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Any financial meltdown will be because of no other reason than the markets themselves made it happen. Nothing is happening overnight to justify it. They are assuming(ie have been told) that everybody is going to sell. In that situation nobody wants to be left holding stock that is worth less than before.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think they're going to have to suspend share dealing immediately.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm just hoping this result doesn't lead to an increase in racist attitudes.

Obviously voting Leave does not make someone racist but there are a LOT of thick people out there who will see this as a green light to be hostile towards anyone they don't consider 'British'.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I don't agree Russ there are no more idiots today then there were yesterday, not a single person I know that voted leave has even the slightest racist tendency far from it most have talked about leave as a chance to really become a global trading nation. Are there racists sadly yes and I'm sure a few of the knuckle draggers might see this as a chance to be more public with their racism but I also believe the ordinary public will shut them down quick as has been the case in the past.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Looks like you called that right. We're out!!!

---------- Post added at 05:41 ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 ----------

I did say yesterday I was quietly confident.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Farage:

Humility in winning ... good to know 48% of the country is not real, not ordinary and not decent ..

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It does according to the remain camp.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It won't. Brexit has never been racist, despite the In campaign trying to paint them with that brush. I doubt that you can find a dictionary anywhere where 'control' means 'hate' or 'racist'.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Amazing! What about the 45% of Scots who voted for independence? Or does it only matter in this vote?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

FREEDOM! :hyper::hyper::woot:

Bookies and pollsters got it wrong yet again.

Now we need Dave and Gideon to be dumped, Jockistan given to the EU and NI to the Irish.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I've never been so happy to be so wrong. :hyper:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Under the (Strasbourg I think) agreement, EU migrants will be able to stay here, so I guess that there will be resentment aimed at them by some people.

We can expect many more immigrants to come here now that they think the door will soon be closing. I wonder if our Government could/would break the freedom of people rule if we do actually start the process of coming out??

I say if, as I still don't think that we will actually come out.

The referendum isn't binding, just advisory to Parliament.

The pound has slumped as predicted, so I believe that the PM will say that this shows the vote was wrong.

I think that Cameron will then go back to get a better deal, even though the EU said that they wouldn't entertain this.

Europe cannot afford to let us go, because if we do leave Europe, this may encourage other countries to do so and the whole thing could well collapse.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Now we just need to sort out the milliner cuisine for a number of members here.:D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I agree however it appears many racist, anti-immigration and far right people/groups will regard this as a victory for their cause and almost legitimising their views.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Congrats to leave .. no one likes a sore loser :)

People dislike even more smug winners ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I said 2 weeks ago what they were doing, I don't think they had as good a night as expected.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35842557-post42.html

---------- Post added at 06:16 ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 ----------


Shouldn't it mean that the kippers go away now, no need for them anymore

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes congrats Leave.

I really hope the estimations of what will happen are wrong.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I, being a Scot prefer Jockanese. Great news. We're FREE!!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well done to the leave camp as what is done is done now.:)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The first thing we have to do is close the door on that from all over the world. Get our house in order and don't rush into invoking Article 50. I'm not sure if we can stop them coming though because technically we are still in the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Congratulations to the Leave voters - democracy in action.

---------- Post added at 06:38 ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 ----------

Dont forget that half of all immigrants don't come from the EU.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

No sensible leave voter believes it will be a bed of roses. We'll take a hit because of the uncertainty but it will settle down. However, I don't believe it will be as bad as they say it will and I don't think Companies will leave in their droves. They will have contingency plans ready to implement. I doubt Nissan will leave as my area, NE England voted overwhelmingly for leave and they will respect that decision.

---------- Post added at 06:44 ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 ----------

The post does say 'the world' as well.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Also wish I took my pension out of tracker funds before this morning

---------- Post added at 06:47 ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 ----------



Like I said I hope I am wrong. It's time for Leave to deliver on their promises now because whilst last night was a clear rebuke to the establishment it's nothing like the anger that will be incurred if the promises don't come true.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I popped into my local pub last night and chatted to one of the regulars. We have had quite a few heated discussions over the past few months because he was all for remain.

You could have knocked me over with a feather when he said he had voted to leave. He said the last minute game changer that clinched it for him was when he read Junkers arrogant comments in the newspaper that morning. It made him realise that it would never be possible to change the EU from within.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's a wonderful morning, for me it is anyway. And if I'm racist because of it, then I make no apologies for being racist. Although how I can be racist when I vote to leave, but have several friends of ethnic backgrounds. Ho hum.

Got a horrible feeling though that this will be like the Lisbon Treaty and they will rerun the vote until they get what they want.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Agreed. We can't forget the 48% who wanted to stay in.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I really hope you are right as it's currently 7% and falling against the euro. This wipes out any benefits from removing vat from fuel for example.

The question is where it will end up long term, everyone thinks it will be lower just not sure how bad.

J

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Congrats to Farage I guess too, you can't say he hasn't fought hard for this.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The pounds doing well.

Well here we go.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Would love to stay here and respond to some comments folks, but after a long night of work peppered with a few minutes of forum chitchat here and there, I've now got a whole day's work to do too.

What a good day! and to top if off, the monsoon has stopped and the sun is out.:)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

For that to happen you have to have a Government that can implement the promises unlike the one we have now. Take immigration for example. Cameron knew in 2012 he couldn't keep the promise of cutting it down to tens of thousands because of the freedom of movement law. Yet he was elected last year on that promise knowing full well it was a lie.

The Tories are going to be around for the foreseeable future so they need a leader who is a leaver and a team of the same in order to begin implementing these promises. For this to happen, the current team have to step aside and let them get on with it. Can you see this happening?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think the idea that what happens to the markets doesn't impact on real people will be challenged in the coming year(s) and if so it is going to get nasty.

---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 ----------

I have never wanted to be so wrong in my life but I can't see the EU giving us the deal we need. I think people will lose homes, jobs and savings,

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I have a feeling the UK is going to flourish, a little uncertainty followed by the UK ruling the UK to benefit the UK.

You're going to have to learn how to have pride in your country, how to have faith in the people of your country, how to stand on your own 2 feet. Change has happened now let's work together and make this change a change for the better. It is up to us!!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

On The News this morning: Netherlands want a referendum. Lepen in France has called for a referendum. Denmark and Italy are looking for a referendum. The Germans want to trade with us as normal. The EU as we have been saying all along is a dying swan and will inevitably break up into Sovereign Democratic States.

This is what is happening and any Companies or Jobs that decide to move to Europe will end up the same as they are here. It is my belief they will now hold off to see what happens in the rest of Europe regarding referenda and the results thereof. It would not be in the interests of the banks to relocate in the present climate.

As of today, nothing has changed. We are still in the EU until Article 50 is invoked and negotiations are complete.

Though the Germans are disappointed at our leaving they still want to trade and I believe that other countries will follow suit.

In the event of others leaving the EU, I don't see trade being a problems or in fact, getting a good deal from the remaining EU countries.

Of course, this is going to take time but I believe the UK and the others who decide to leave the sinking ship will benefit from this. All we have done is knock the first brick out of the wall of a derelict building which, like all derelict buildings must be demolished.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes!

We have defeated Dave!

now we just point and laugh at him with the rest of the world.

let's give him some time to pack and compose himself.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

His days are now numbered sooner than he planned. There is now talk of an Autumn election though I'm not sure if there will be. I think there has to be an election though in order to get a Brexit Government in place who will get the best deal possible for us now we are leaving.

Pointing and laughing is all fine and well and I do that to the Tories anyway. However we must take into account the 48% who voted to remain when making any decisions for our future

The point of all this is that we, the minority were right in 1975 and that has now been vindicated.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Dave has to go, all the talk of war and god knows what else. He did it to himself saying such ridiculous things. He could of survived a leave vote if he hadn't told so many lies and fairy tales before the vote.

Corbyn may also find himself ousted, he was very much remain and it's the labour vote that swung it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Stock market is collapsing

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We need a strong team like Boris and Gove to do the negociations with the rest of the EU.

Dave won't have his heart in it and won't get us a decent separation deal. I think the nasty, vacuous little (word I can't use) would sell us out just for his own satisfaction so he can say I told you so.:(

---------- Post added at 08:14 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

They backed the wrong horse. Until the dust settles we can't make a judgement.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Collapsing you say? It's the predicted shock, all those who bought the £ yesterday predicting a remain vote and the £ shooting up are selling selling selling... That mainly why the £ is dropping.

Give it a month all will be fine, of course you want doom and gloom.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

An interesting question. Those Scottish voters who voted to remain in the UK AND the EU, how many will now switch to leaving the UK so they can apply to stay in the EU?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Expect plenty of sour loser posts. :D

I'll try not to gloat.;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Stock Market is reacting as we knew it would and it will settle down.

1,269,501 votes does not sound very convincing but when you look at the results by area it makes very different reading. 52% 48% sounds much better.

Cameron OUT!!! He's about to speak now on news.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Is everyone getting a real sense of being part of a huge community? Getting my paper his morning everyone is smiling giving each other a knowing nod. It's great!

---------- Post added at 08:23 ---------- Previous post was at 08:19 ----------

cameron resigns!!!!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

daves chucked his dummy out

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Cameron is standing down.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Cameron won't trigger Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon. He says that's his successor's job.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

AddIf anyone asks for an example of killing 2 birds with one stone this is the perfect example. Bye Bye Dave!!!

Out of the EU and getting rid of Cameron in 24 hours? Go on yer se'ls as we Jockanese would say.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

so not interested in our democracy and or our decision .

a classic example of a dave lie he promised to trigger article 50 immediately if we voted leave .

don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's dropped far more than recent gains

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Cameron will step down in October.

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That is a good thing. It gives the Markets plenty time to recover.

Yes seems he's chickened out. He's bottled it. He said before the referendum that HE would stay on and would carry out the wishes of the people.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That was because he assumed the people would vote the way he told them to. Now he's had a fit of pique. I can just see that impotent, constapated, pursed lip look and stamping foot as he realised that he blew it.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well, I am mildly surprised at the result, and both pleased and apprehensive. I think this is for the long term good of the country but I'm under no illusions, it won't be easy.

I think the tightness of the result should inform the approach we take in negotiations. We can't disengage from the EU as totally as some would like, IMO. We're likely to go for some sort of association status.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Last time I checked it was still above February levels.

Now we're going to have the remainers banging on about what a bad mistake it all is...

Every time something big happens markets fall then rise, the same with currency. My god it's happened often enough over the last decade or two that people really ought to now that by now.

What has happened here is that the unremitting diet of fear plus the succession of people like Obama telling the UK what to do has backfired massively. The campaign was badly handled from the start and Cameron ought to have known better. Unfortunately for him it's cost him his job and a place in history. If the remain campaign had at any time really acknowledged the genuine fears of the people about the EU's future direction I believe they'd have won. Instead they resorted to the fear and insults with people like Sadiq Khan indulging in personal attacks just days after he's been up their telling us all how politics needed to learn something from Jo Cox's death. These people will not learn. They happily peddle the sort of nastiness they claim to despise when it suits them and as a result, people have lost faith in their politicians.

As for Corbyn, he's been shown up to be a truly pathetic leader, virtually invisible during the UK's most important debate for decades. When it really mattered he didn't even have the courage of his convictions, deciding it was more expedient to go back on a career lifetime of anti-EU sentiment. A political rabbit caught in headlights.

What needs to happen now is that the result is accepted by all and those on the losing side to avoid talking the UK down and exacerbating what uncertainty will inevitably follow. If they're interested in the UK and its future they'll do just that, if they're not they'll continue talking us down, trying to make the worst happen just so they can say 'we were right'. The decision is made and whatever their view about anything else, anyone who has the UK's interests at heart will now do their best to make the most of what's happened. It'll be interesting to see who decides to take the other route and talk UK PLC down for no good reason.

With any luck there'll be change in the EU - if it doesn't follow now you have to ask just what it is going to take to get the Eurocrats to see sense.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So it is. It's dropping still but I hope your right.

Unsarcastically, congrats on the win. I know you probably thought it might never come. :)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So the BoE have £250 bn. to shore up Sterling? What happened to the doom and gloom of not being able to cope?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's stabilised things a bit but it's hardly a encouraging sign when the central bank has to step in.

We will see but I think this is going to be a difficult few years. Leave have a lot to deliver too

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well the FTSE is doing better than a lot of markets this morning.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Leave was a campaign for a single event. As of right now, it no longer exists as an entity.

Both Labour and Conservative were split on this, yet both of them are now going to have to formulate policy that respects the outcome of the referendum.

It's our political class that has a lot to deliver, on something most of them didn't want to happen. Interesting times ahead.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I have no idea how others perceive what I've posted here but I am truly sad that it had to come to this. My frustration is with the 'we know best' Eurocrats and politicians who spend far too much time listening to the haves and the elite than those pesky ordinary 'bigots' whose only value appears at election time.

The EU needs to reform and their abject failure to entertain that notion in spite of what's going on all around them is what's led to this. I find it staggering that the people of Europe have any faith in them at all but then I think of FIFA who doled out bribes to buy important votes all around the globe. The EU could and should have been a great thing if only it'd had been able to show a degree of pragmatism and done away with its fixation for homogenisation with faceless Brussels bureaucrats at the top of the tree.

I'd hoped that the very real threat to leave would focus the minds of folks like Juncker but clearly not. Cameron has rightly resigned but do you think any of those who've steered the EU into this mess and seen the EU's second largest contributor leave will have the decency to follow? Not a chance! They're never wrong after all.

That is what's wrong with the EU...

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Indeed. But the money is there, it doesn't mean it will be used. As you say we'll have to wait and see what happens over the next month or so.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------

The single market is still there and we will likely be a part of it if we want to. But as I said earlier the end of the EU is inevitable and the problem will not arise if that happens.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It's stabilised but it's the worst drop in the FTSE 250 ever and the biggest drop in any single currency ever. This isn't going to be good for people.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 ----------

The politicians who promised it are still there. Let's see the 5% drop in fuel bills (which isnt going amount to anything for any energy we buy outside of sterling) and the extra money for the NHS. Dan Hannan is already making it clear that people expecting immigration to drop will be disappointed.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The EU is fundamentally broken. There's a law in politics - if something can't continue, it won't. We may have hastened its demise but when the end comes, it won't have been our doing. The intransigence and mule-headed obsession with federalism amongst the Brussels elite is the root cause.

---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 ----------

Dan Hannan comes at this from the same perspective as me. The structures of the EU have always been fundamentally incompatible with the democratic tradition of the British people. There is a long tradition of euroscepticism in this country that has nothing to do with immigration.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Former president of the European Commision Romano Prodi says he expects trade to stay the same after Brexit is completed. All trade agreements we have now will continue as they are.

The EU will have to accept that as a fact he says.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

That's fine but there is a disconnect between the motivations of the politicians and those who voted for their cause here. Immigration was the biggest concern for them. There will be considerable anger if it's not addressed now, if Leave becomes 'another put up job by the establishment'.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I got this very wrong and apologise to those whose opinions I doubted. Everyone underestimated the extent to which the anti-establishment feelings of many would drive the way they voted.

The vote has set in motion a chain of events that I'm far from convinced many understood. I certainly didn't.

Let's hope that the divisions inside the UK can be healed somewhat, they are stark, and that a fair and reasonable agreement with the EU can be reached expediently when the negotiations come.

This isn't the last the UK has seen of referenda this decade.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Some say the FTSE is well overvalued and was due a correction, programmed trading also plays a large part at such times and adds to volatility This is it and anyone who thinks it won't be up/down for the foreseeable future is likely to be disappointed. Sterling being lower makes our exports cheaper - an artificially low currency is what's been keeping Germany doing well for years. There are pros and cons to all of this.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'll also say that I hope this is going to be more of an adjustment back to where the UK perhaps should have been.

I'm not sure there was ever a mandate for the Maastricht or Lisbon treaties.

In the interim, of course, strap in and hold on. :disturbd:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I don't really understand why David Cameron chose to step down because the EU Referendum result not only gave him the greatest weapon for reforming the EU but also provided a beacon of hope for all other dissatisfied voters in the other countries within the EU.

The Leave voters don't want to remain in the EU as presently organised but that is not to say that changes cannot be made, though they would have to lead to a much better deal than the one offered which was pathetic.

All EU countries could decide to give up completely any idea of forming a European Superstate and formally put that into EU rules.

They could legislate to make the national courts the supreme courts in any EU country.

They could still have freedom of movement within the EU but within limits specified by national governments, such limits to include the expulsion of criminals and other undesirable elements and limits on numbers.

We could go back to being a trading nation and the EU could dismantle some of the more expensive parts of its infrastructure.

Cameron would not have to activate Article 50 immediately. He could propose changes to make the EU more acceptable and less meddlesome.

He could point out that there is anti-EU sentiment throughout the EU and that if nothing is done the UK Brexit might be an example other countries want to follow. Better to have a really reformed EU than one that decomposes altogether.

And while he is doing all this he can dangle Article 50 over them like the Sword Of Damocles, something he could be doing for years.

In this way we could still remain in the EU complete with our sovereignty, continued access to the EU market with a lot less EU interference and expense. We could also keep the UK united with no need for independence votes.

All we have to do is delay our use of Article 50 so long as the EU reforms and is working for us and all other countries in the EU.

Only time will tell what the future holds. I just hope it holds the use of a lot of common sense.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The complexity of this, and the extent to which we have allowed ourselves to become knitted into the EU system, was for me a reason to vote leave. If we didn't do it today, it would have been all the harder to do it come the day our membership of the EU became absolutely intolerable.

Democracy must be exercised within the nation state. Beyond that is the realm of diplomacy. That, to me, is a kind of natural law, and if that law is transgressed for too long, the inevitable correction is all the more violent. We have acted to disentangle ourselves by deliberate choice, by democratic means, and, I believe, we are ahead of events. The EU project was too arch and clever for its own good and its end is nigh.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Here's a thought. What if it becomes clear any EU deal will be a bad one and cause negative economic effects? When do we issue article 50?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I'm waiting for Juncker to tell us that the copy of Article 50 Cameron has is a cheap Romanian counterfeit so it's not valid... :D

Re: The EU referendum
 

European markets are taking an even greater hammering with the imminent loss of their sugar daddy.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I was up all night watching this.

And was pleasantly relieved, I thought those big London boroughs would wipe out all the little gains the smaller areas were making.

This will start the cascade across Europe now, you watch. Now someone has stepped forward first, more will follow.

The EU is fatally flawed and will now (hopefully) change into something more fit for purpose.

Scotland should be careful too, as I expect they will want - and may get, another referendum for their Independance. They may get it , if for nothing else to shut them up and the neverending bitching from across the border we've seen in recent years. (I know I have lots of Scottish relatives)

I'd advise caution though, they may get what they ask for, but may not like it when they get it, if the EU does implode they may find themselves proud members of a small and meaningless club.

Re: The EU referendum
 

Robert Peston & John Pienaar think that the Labour Party will have a new leadership election and that a General Election will be called.

To counter the new Tory Brexit leader, the new Labour leader may offer to seek to obtain more concessions from Europe and (with or without another referendum) keep us in.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

We've voted to leave and that's a first step the easiest step and now the real work begins a period of instability is to be expected as those who can profit from this will as they do anything and a rebalance of government towards getting the best deal which I don't think the current government is. Not very surprised Cameron has quit his credibility is shot and his personal approach during the campaign just doesn't make him the best person to get the deals that are needed now.

I don't think it's a time for being triumphant about the result as many in the uk didn't vote for this and the referendum has highlighted the deep divisions within the uk another aspect where a lot of work is needed. This is a decision that won't show many gains short term and most informed leavers knew that when they voted but the referendum is clear the majority want out of the EU as it is now and being honest any concessions the EU may offer now is too little too late. If the EU doesn't wake up and realise the problems that exist and the resentment that people not just in the uk but all over Europe have towards it then it is on borrowed time.

I'm glad we have voted out but not the way our country was divided or the manner of either campaign and this is also not the time for remainers to jump on every bit of bad news there will be for a few weeks with "I told you so" as that will only further the divide.

Re: The EU referendum
 

Surely Labour are not so clueless as try to over rule a referendum are they? Could you imagine another Brexit campaign?

It would be vile, poisonous, hate filled, we do not want or need that! Not forgetting labour voters in the majority voted LEAVE!

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Lots of us got it wrong, I voted out with all my heart whilst expecting the vote to go the other way. I'm just glad that people like me who thought they would be beaten got off their backsides and voted.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Yes it'll be interesting to see just how keen the SNP remains on EU membership over coming weeks/months. It's their choice, let them put their money where there mouth is if they feel trying to join the EU is going to be good for them. If they're certain it's so right let them provide a vote for independence and go for it now. Any delay will clearly indicate just how much they believe their own rhetoric.

As for what happens in the EU, I expect others to ask for referenda and it'll be interesting to see what concessions they may be offered. If the argument for not giving the UK much is that they couldn't because it'd encourage others to try their luck, well that is still the case now with any other nations who may wish to review their membership of the EU. There's no way to avoid the problem now, the best thing they could have do is to be sensible with the UK and avoided this trauma and all the likely fallout. Sadly the EU doesn't do common sense...

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Reform to try and keep us in is not going to happen. If the EU did that for us others would jump on the bandwagon.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

It'll be good if other nations also vote to exit, it'll quickly kill the idea that anyone can be 'punished' for leaving if others do it too.

Here's hoping.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

So you doubted opinions of leavers, an now you're telling them they don't understand what leave means? Interesting views you have.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

apparently the whining jock is going to make a speech about a Scottish referendum :shocked:again

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Why would they have to apply special rules for us? Why don't they change things for everybody? Realistically there are no measures that could be introduced anyway those would fully resolve the issues. It would be just tinkering around the edges and people would find a way around any new restrictions.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

[QUOTE=ntluser;35845074]I don't really understand why David Cameron chose to step down because the EU Referendum result not only gave him the greatest weapon for reforming the EU but also provided a beacon of hope for all other dissatisfied voters in the other countries within the EU.

The Leave voters don't want to remain in the EU as presently organised but that is not to say that changes cannot be made, though they would have to lead to a much better deal than the one offered which was pathetic.

All EU countries could decide to give up completely any idea of forming a European Superstate and formally put that into EU rules.

They could legislate to make the national courts the supreme courts in any EU country.

They could still have freedom of movement within the EU but within limits specified by national governments, such limits to include the expulsion of criminals and other undesirable elements and limits on numbers.

We could go back to being a trading nation and the EU could dismantle some of the more expensive parts of its infrastructure.

Cameron would not have to activate Article 50 immediately. He could propose changes to make the EU more acceptable and less meddlesome.

He could point out that there is anti-EU sentiment throughout the EU and that if nothing is done the UK Brexit might be an example other countries want to follow. Better to have a really reformed EU than one that decomposes altogether.

And while he is doing all this he can dangle Article 50 over them like the Sword Of Damocles, something he could be doing for years.

In this way we could still remain in the EU complete with our sovereignty, continued access to the EU market with a lot less EU interference and expense. We could also keep the UK united with no need for independence votes.

All we have to do is delay our use of Article 50 so long as the EU reforms and is working for us and all other countries in the EU.

Only time will tell what the future holds. I just hope it holds the use of a lot of common sense.[/QUOTE]




it was never his mission to change the EU

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

No-one understands what leave means right now.

Pointing out that people don't know what it means is neither interesting or controversial.

That no clear vision of what it would mean has been presented hasn't helped.

EDIT: I would also point out that you don't know how I voted.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The problem was that David Cameron was arguing just for us which made us appear selfish.

He would have got more support if he had argued for equal rights for all EU states.

All his successor has to do now is see what happens in the upcoming French and German elections. My guess is that there will be a massive swing to anti-EU parties.

Another thing to consider are the MEP elections when again there could be a massive swing to anti-EU parties following the Brexit.

It's a shame that the EU management is so inflexible because if they don't adapt and change they will be like the dinosaurs..extinct!

The next two years are going to be very interesting.

Re: The EU referendum
 

I'm not aware of any evidence of this. These numbers will become clearer later.

---------- Post added at 10:44 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

Treaty change requires unanimity. That isn't going to happen.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

it was never his mission to change the EU[/QUOTE]

You may well be right. If that was the case it's definitely proper that he should resign especially as a lot of things he said in the EU campaign were lies.

Re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

If that deal includes free movement of people and paying into the EU, which it will do......then what was the point?

---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Did your IQ suddenly drop sharply.

If we want access to the single market we will have to accept free movement of people, pay into Europe and accept all the rules regulations and bureaucracy.

So what was the point.