Cable Forum - Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35889710)

Nope, I like the Mail and I read it nearly every day. I know that many here don't hold it in much regard but my point is that to be truly representative, a full spectrum of popular curent opinion better serves forum discussions. The ban by Wikipedia has nothing to do with it; I don't regard Wiki or the Mail as the definitive factual source but both contribute to my understanding of an overall picture.

I wasn't criticising you for sharing a Mail link btw; in fact, I have noticed and am grateful that you have diversified your sourcing to include Mail references. We cannot ignore the popular press, believing that it is in some way an embarrassment to the intelligentsia; everyone's point of view matters as does everyone's vote. There are people in politics who still don't seem to want to grasp this.

I was simply making the point that, whichever sourcing you choose, it is invariably negative and perhaps especially so where Brexit is concerned to the point it would seem, of careful selectivity. On the forum that simply translates into polarising opinion and we need to move on from that imho.

Apart from anything else attrition won't change anyone's mind about anything and we won't find the required compromises in one upmanship-style posting.

Thanks for your post Kursk. All I would add is that a number of keen Brexiters have commented that I always find negative news about Brexit. I even joked about the other day when I posted a link to the news about Tuesday being the day for invoking Article 50. I've posted links to positive Brexit articles but searching out upbeat news stories about Brexit is not balance.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Best Brexit article I've seen for a long time. It criticises remainers and leavers alike. I would commend it to everyone. It's written by Tom Kibasi, Director of the Institute for Public Policy Research. Here are a couple of snippetts:

Quote:

Even now, Remain campaigners have retreated into the comforts of pointing to a base and deceitful campaign by the Brexiters, rather than seeking to define or to solve the deeper problems that led to the vote against the status quo. At the heart of the Remainers’ failure is their inability to understand the reality of daily life for many people and communities in modern Britain. They fail to grasp that the current economic model is not working for many people.

Many Remain campaigners note that, in many parts of the country, people feel they have not shared in the economic recovery. In most of the country, there has been no recovery: outside London and the south east, there is not a single region of Britain where have incomes returned to their pre-financial crisis peak. That is a fact, not a feeling.

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In contrast, the Leave side cleverly seized upon the narrative of change during the campaign (before pivoting to false comfort since the result was declared). Leaving the EU was offered as the magical solution to all of Britain’s problems. Fake promises, such as £350m a week for the NHS or a new points-based immigration system were put on offer.

When challenged about the costs of Brexit, leading Leave figures continue to argue that the UK can enjoy all of the benefits of membership, such as frictionless, tariff-free access to the single market, while bearing none of the burdens. When asked about the challenges, they respond with false reassurances that everything will be fine, and nostalgia for our past, as if this is a prescription for the future. It is both because the Leave campaign was so deceitful and the real policy cupboard is so bare that many Brexiters have attempted to shut down all debate about Britain’s future since the referendum result was declared.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...m-remain-leave

In contrast, the Leave side cleverly seized upon the narrative of change during the campaign (before pivoting to false comfort since the result was declared). Leaving the EU was offered as the magical solution to all of Britain’s problems. Fake promises, such as £350m a week for the NHS or a new points-based immigration system were put on offer.

When challenged about the costs of Brexit, leading Leave figures continue to argue that the UK can enjoy all of the benefits of membership, such as frictionless, tariff-free access to the single market, while bearing none of the burdens. When asked about the challenges, they respond with false reassurances that everything will be fine, and nostalgia for our past, as if this is a prescription for the future. It is both because the Leave campaign was so deceitful and the real policy cupboard is so bare that many Brexiters have attempted to shut down all debate about Britain’s future since the referendum result was declared.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35889727)

What did you think of the article's criticism of the remainers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35889673)

Kursk, have you changed your tune on the Mail? Only the other week you were bemoaning the fact that whilst the Mail was your daily read and represented your views, people may be reluctant to share its wisdom due its ban by Wikipedia?
In criticising me for sharing a link to the first page of the Mail, can we now take it that you no longer trust the paper either?

The Daily Mail and Sunday Mail took different stances on Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7094606.html

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Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35889736)

The Daily Mail and Sunday Mail took different stances on Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7094606.html

Interesting. And from that article, The Times went for remain and The Sunday Times to leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35889724)

Best Brexit article I've seen for a long time. It criticises remainers and leavers alike. I would commend it to everyone.

Much of which (to pat us all on the back) we've covered at CF post-referendum.

I rather like the more succinct quotation that David Davis used this morning when discussing the Brexit negotiations with Andrew Marr:

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"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"

Our relationship with the EU can't remain the same else what is the point. It doesn't though have to be as bad as some claim (nor as good).

And any good Sekrit society knows that there will always be some leaks so publish publicly as much as you can, make it seem to be all above board, minutes published, attendee's listed. No risk here. It's like a magician, even if you know the secret a good magician is still entertaining. Even if you tell people it's a trick and how it's done people will demand a performance to try to see how it's done and by then ....

This is comedy gold! :D Liam Fox denies sending a tweet which is on the screen behind him! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...sitting-front/

"MPs have overwhelmingly voted to overturn amendments to the Brexit bill made by peers and send the landmark legislation back to the House of Lords. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39249721

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Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35889851)

Excellent!

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Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35889851)

And the HoL will be debating and voting again tonight.

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The Article 50 Bill will now tonight return to the House of Lords for a second time, although it is expected peers will not seek to re-add amendments to the proposed legislation and will pass the Bill.

It is understood Labour peers will abstain on the Article 50 Bill in the House of Lords later to weaken the chances of a Government defeat.

Link

And the Lords back down. May now has legal Authority to trigger Article 50. About bloody time.

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Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35889887)

And the Lords back down. May now has legal Authority to trigger Article 50. About bloody time.

Whereas I agree with you Mick I suspect 1andrew1 will be here soon saying all the wasted time and money on legal challenges and the HoL being a counterbalance were worth it as the Government now has the legal authority to do what it was going to do.

I'm sure you can understand the common sense to that argument.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35889887)

And the Lords back down. May now has legal Authority to trigger Article 50. About bloody time.

BBC Article here : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39262081

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35889892)

No, Andrew will be here with more scare tactics. The battle isn't over.