Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Is it worse than a no-deal? No. Is it worse than membership? Yes.
The Wirecard fraud situation may work in our favour as it shows how the EU benefits from the City of London. But preying in aid to the City may not work.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

On any side

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Except I'm not blushing, nor in any danger of it. There have certainly been some blunders and inefficiences around PPE, the app, the care homes and exam results. However, the bungling was by public servants - and the politicians clearly misplaced their faith in taking them at their word when it came to what would work. NHS procurement officers failed to stock enough PPE (they were not alone in the world) it was Simon Stevens who directed the hospitals to clear out patients from care homes back to their normal establishments, where they passed the virus to other residents, and it was Ofqual who came up with the dodgy algorythm.

I think it probably was the government that slipped up with their optimism on having our own app, although they were persuaded by their officers that their app was better than all the others. And some people wonder why Boris wants to shake up the Civil Service and the quangoes!

But all this is just deflection on your part, Andrew. This thread is about Brexit, not Covid, and the constant mantra that we should extend the duration of these negotiations is negative, tiresome and in the end, pointless.

Have you not clocked yet that the British public want all this to be over? Extending negotiations will just defer the inevitable, whatever that is - deal or no deal.

---------- Post added at 16:52 ---------- Previous post was at 16:47 ----------

That's not what the British electorate believes. Of course it's worse than no deal.

The British public wants us out of the EU, with or without a deal. I thought that was clear, even to you. My bad

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No deflection on my part Old Boy, my point has clearly eluded you but to reiterate - BoJo's fumbling government seems to be over-stretched. tackling Covid and Brexit so to avoid a bad deal we need to extend. No deal is not an option.

If we leave with no deal this year, we start negotiations in 2022 from a position of weakness and also with no EU goodwill. You've clearly forgotten that Brexit doesn't end with no deal! That actually elongates the process as there will be lots of squabbling and a succession of smaller deals. You let the genie out of the bag in 2016 and it ain't going away. Negotiations with the EU are no part of British life for the forseeable future.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Sorry, Andrew, it's you who has missed the point. It's not the government fumbling, it is its officers. And I did make the point that extending the deadline for a deal will make no difference to the EU's attitude. They will continue to be difficult until the bitter end.

All you can see is this big monster EU presence and poor little Britain cowering in the corner. You may be in for a surprise.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Funny how the Government gets the credit when things go right, but it's the Civil Servants' fault when it goes wrong... :dozey:

The ones who were saying the App would work were the outsourced contractors and the Ministers - everyone else was saying "it won't work".

Was it the Civil Servants fault when Boris didn't deliver the “clear plan we have prepared to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve” in July 2019, on the steps of Downing Street?

Was it the Civil Servants' fault when Boris told NI businesses that "There will be no forms, no checks, no barriers of any kind. You will have unfettered access.”, when in fact they will be checks and forms to fill in?

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------

The Government is responsible for the actions of it's workers, Civil Servants and politicians - it goes with the job.

They get paid the big bucks, they have to own the problems, not blamestorm.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

As this is not the Covid thread I'll be succinct - the Government took a lot of the key decisions about Covid eg outsourcing track and trace and the Conservatives have had 10 years to get the civil service right. Blame cannot be swerved.
There is no bitter end Old Boy. You completely fail to understand that no-deal is only the start of more discussions.
The penny is finally start to drop with some of the mainstream Brexit press like the Daily Mail and The Sun. I hope it drops with you before too long.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I was watching the news, and they asked Tony B about the governments handling of the Covid-19, I fell of my sofa when he did slag them off, in fact he almost praised them.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

EU insider lifts lid on how Barnier's negotiating camp now racked with defeatist pessimism

The growing sense of despondency within Michel Barnier's team is fuelled by fears of a bitter no deal Brexit with EU negotiators braced for a vicious "blame game" over who is responsible for the stalemate. Last week's tense talks which ended in stalemate did nothing to lift flagging spirits in Brussels.

Ooh le heck,le reality ezz not what they thought eet was.;)

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...er-david-frost

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The two recurring issues are fishing rights and a level playing field.

If a suitable deal on fishing des not happen, a free trade deal won't happen. And no deal will result in French fishermen blocking Calais and no market for our fish. If a deal is reached, expect cash (hidden to keep the Breixters happy) to pension off some of the French fishing fleet over time and a gradual withdrawal from British waters.

The EU has free trading deals with all the main trading blocs and countries though its recent one with the US seems quite limited. Such deals confer on the signatories improvements to the deals if the EU negotiates deals with other countries. So the EU is not going to start removing its level playing field requirement with the UK as it will open the floodgates globally to subsidised goods being dumped in the single market.

The EU has made its red lines in these areas quite clear.

Let's remind ourselves of the cards held. The UK has trade deals with South Korea, Switzerland and Liechenstein.

The EU has its own market of 450m people plus trade deals with most blocs and countries in the world including Japan and Canada. And and its team negotiating with NZ was praised whilst the UK's was called "not match fit".

Anyone still think we hold all the cards? Thought not!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Does anyone think we don't hold all the cards ? thought not :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

But Andrew, you said in an earlier post that 'there are plenty of non UK fish in the sea', so why do they desperately need our fish?

Can't wait for the French to start blockading ports again, years since we've seen so much fun. :D

and do you really think that if a 'secret' deal was struck by the UK to pension off the French fishing fleet, it would stay out of the news?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You might find it easier to communicate with him using semaphore,get a couple of white flags and wave them around it's the only language he understands;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You forgot this bit from the article, explains the blame game will be in the UK team, not the EU... Ooh le heck,le reality ezz not what vous thought eet was.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I deed not forgeet it it waz in zee article,and by zee way your French eez le terrible;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Fish is a generic term - perhaps the species the French like are in our waters? Blockading ports and disrupting medicine supplies is not a great place to be in, especially with Covid still present. There's been plenty of financial deals struck so far with the EU giving billions away (think our shares in the EIB for example ) so something like this for a few million extra in development funds for the ports of Calais and Dover can easily be done, no issues. When the Government's chopping down money tree forests the size of the Amazon, such things won't be apparent.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

My apologies - I should have said "you conveniently omitted this part, which contradicted what you posted".

I'll try to be clearer next time... :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The EU buy and eat fish caught in UK waters. How are they going to make up any shortfall? The EU fishing quotas will have been reduced because of the reduction of the potential fishing area, so increasing fishing in non-UK waters isn't an option.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Theft probably.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

* How are they going to make up any shortfall? *

Well they could go cap in hand to Norway or Iceland and hope to persuade them to increase the EU quota allowed ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://memeguy.com/photos/images/yo...ies-311724.gif

Hamster, elderberries, etc., etc.. :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Looks like the Government has acknowledged its negotiating team is indeed not "match fit" and is desperately bringing some business expertise on board.

Better late than never!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...ns/ar-BB18mIGn

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Bankers & Accountants . . . just what we need to screw things up again :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well, since Finacial Services are 75 (over £130 million per year) of the the UK’s economic output, they are quote useful...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Maybe the government have learnt from their past mistakes and ineptitude, and have finally decided they've had enough of half arsed screw-ups and are going out of their way to make sure they do it properly ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I think the principle here is: If you know you're about to screw things up royally, make sure your scapegoats are in place beforehand. ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Problem is, the UK are breaking a signed treaty, at the time we want to be signing new treaties with lots of countries - why should any country trust us to uphold the terms of a treaty, when we are showing we won’t?

https://www.ft.com/content/9906e0d4-...0-130c75a2f7a7

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

"reserves the right" is not the same as "is going to". What does the UN Convention on Law of the Seas, say about who controls fishing in UK waters?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Except that they aren’t.

The bill is worded so as to allow for a course of action, it does not implement that course of action. In circumstances such as these, the two are worlds apart. As drafted, it amounts to a threat, and taken in concert with other comments made over the weekend (no doubt all perfectly coordinated) is part of a strategy to pressure the EU into accepting that any permanent trade deal will not in any way leave the U.K. with a sort of associate membership status. Only once the EU drops its negotiating aim of keeping the U.K. aligned, will it be possible for a deal to be reached.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Where have you been, Seph? Coronavirus has ravaged the UK too, arguably worse than many of our peers.

If there is no deal, the EU has deals with most of the world, its own internal market of 450m and has the infrastructure and people in place to cope. Embarrassingly as a Brit, we have neither.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Here's a little tip for those who keep blasting the UK over its Brexit stance, and feel the UK is doomed and the EU is still the best place to live & work . . .


. . there are a few places on the SE coast that have a growing collection of dinghies. I'm sure that if you fully explain your situation, they'll let you have one with which to escape to the nearest EU coast . . . they'll probably give you the fuel required too :p:

hope this helps ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Something something respect what was voted for something something.

Oh wait, I forgot that only applies to remoaners.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Because that treaty assumed that we would get a deal with the EU. If we don't get that, why would we continue with a treaty that assumed a trade deal?

Who wants their cake and eat it now?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You missed the bit where Seph said we will grow our own economy.

Don't give us that old chestnut about 'no deal' being a disaster. Most trade around the world is on WTO terms. There are other places other than the EU where we can forge deals more suited to our requirements than was possible in the EU. Some are already virtually there, ready to be implemented in 2021.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Old Boy, wake up and smell the coffee! We're in the middle of a huge recession. The economy isn't growing.
Also, why resort to the straw man if you believe in your arguments? I've not said WTO terms will be a disaster but they will be very damaging. It's a Leaver Professor, Patrick Minford, who has said Brexit will lead to the end of UK manufacturing.
The trade deals you refer to replicate a couple that we already enjoy at the moment. Losing deals with the US, Canada and the EU will not advance our economy.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The trade deal assumptions were written in the Political Declaration which we promptly shredded after the election

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Good link from a Nissan insider which dispels many remainer and leaver myths on the situation for the company.
https://www.quora.com/Why-would-Niss...58e3&srid=3fST

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

That’s not how treaties work, unless it’s explicitly stated as such in the treaty (and it isn’t).

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

Just to check I understand what you’re saying - the UK isn’t breaking a treaty, it’s only threatening to break a treaty if it doesn’t get what it wants?

What happens if it doesn’t get what it wants?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Then it’s either bluffing, or it breaks a treaty. Either way, that’s not what they’re doing right now.

In fact, el gov is trying to clarify things this morning (apparently the weekend press was a leak) - they claim they’re trying to close a legal loophole that would exist in the event of No Deal, as the joint U.K./EU supervisory committee that seeks to ensure the WA is adhered to, would automatically cease to exist in those circumstances.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The transitional arrangements, as set out in the documentation, were agreed on the basis that both sides would agree to a free trade agreement at the end of the negotiations.

The fact that the EU doesn't even recognise that we will be an independent country in January speaks volumes, and so why you are standing up for those tyrants I really don't know.

The fact remains, that if the EU recognises that we will not be part of their gang from January, we will have a trade deal and the treaty you are so concerned about will still be in tact.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Isn't stated in the treaty? Where did you get that nonsense from?:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Repeating it doesn’t make it so - can you highlight which part of the WA supports your proposition, please?

From the EU Commission

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1599483764

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

1) It's a general principle with International Treaties that "good faith" has to be adhered to.
2) Article 50 of the EU treaty allowing states to leave the EU also stipulates "good faith".
3) The Brexit treaty stipulates "good faith" in Article 5.

Link

Link


If the EU considers fish in foreign waters to do with as they please, then that knocks out all current EU fishing agreements with non-EU countries, on the basis that the EU isn't following those agreements in "good faith".:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It doesn't so that's sadly more irrelevance.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If the EU goes into a fishing agreement with another country on the basis they are going to respect the rights of that country over the fish, they then can't say "It may be your waters, but it's not your fish". There is no longer "good faith" that the EU will follow the agreement.
You can't in "good faith" come to an agreement over rights you don't consider exist in the first place.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Only in the political declaration. The Withdrawal Agreement doesn't stipulate any deal needing to be in place after the Transition Period, only the continuation of the Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol (protecting the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, another international agreement)

The current Government voted for this

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

This is actually what the term means ĺhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith_(law)

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

With integrated global supply chains, you can't compete in sectors like car manufacturing with just a market of 64m. Let's not go back to the government picking and subsidising winners as Cummings and Corbyn like. Instead, let's agree to a level playing field with the EU and kick socialism into touch.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Well, if they give us a free trade deal, we'll keep the treaty.

The political declaration stated clearly that both sides wanted a free trade deal. So where is it?

No deal, no treaty. No cake and eat it, as they say.

And for good measure, ze clock eez ticking.

---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Er, let's not!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I believe this paragraph (paragraph 17 of the political declaration is a major sticking point;

This basically says no level playing field, no deal

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Gets my vote :tu:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Agreed. What is the point of gaining our own sovereignty and freedom to trade how we want, only to throw away those freedoms immediately and be enslaved forever to the EU, with no say in the legislation they introduce?

How does that not sound like a bad deal to anyone on this forum?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Welll, when you put it so even-handedly and unemotionally, using such concise and logical reasoning, how can anyone disagree?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Sounds simple enough to me. Brexit is Brexit. What's not to understand?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No level playing field lets socialism in through the front door. You've let Margaret Thatcher's legacy and British business down by endorsing such views.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

So if the government agreed to paragraph 17 of the political declaration and signed off on it but had no intention of following through, does the 'good faith' test apply on our side?

Surely it would be simpler to simply say 'see ya' and walk off into the sunset and not pay Sir David Frost et al travel expenses? The fact that the government is negotiating suggest, despite what Boris Johnson says, that they do want a deal

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm not sure we're allowed to mark our own tests on this forum. For better or worse, we mark one another's

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I said it before that the nature of how politics is in this country and with what was promised means the U.K Government isn't in a position to make concessions. It was true a year ago and it's in true today. Everything has been ramped up to such a level than any concession towards the EU would be portrayed as a betrayal.

Boris Johnson and the Government have tried for an EU deal entirely on our terms and it isn't working.

People will cheer this round but the same problem with crop up with any other trade deal.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

At the end of the day, we need a close trade deal with the EU. If BoJo's government won't make it then Sunak's or Sir Keir's will. The forces of geoeconomics can't be overcome by empty slogans.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The calculation is not about the need of the country. It's about what will keep BoJo in power a bit longer.
Damien's post explains the situation rationally and quite clearly.

---------- Post added at 22:11 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

"Old Boy and I have correctly analysed..." is what I meant by self-marking.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

To add - I hope that this analysis is wrong. I hope BoJo does what he did before, namely concede at the last minute. He can concede on a level playing field and be seen to win on fishing, thus allowing the Express to declare victory. Farage will continue to moan, naturally, but he has carved a niche career out of doing so.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yeah ... I think anyone who thinks the level playing field will be conceded to any significant degree really hasn’t been paying attention. Dynamic Alignment, which is what the EU would like the LPF to mean, amounts to EU directive by fax; single market rules made in Brussels, sent to London to be automatically applied to our statute book as the price of our access to their single market. This is problematic for a number of reasons. First, we take rules, without having influenced their drafting; second, they apply to domestic trade, not just to stuff exported to the EU (as is the case now); third they dent our ability to negotiate independently with third parties for mutual access to our markets; fourth, the EU has form for defining very broadly what single market regulation looks like. It’s a recipe for continued EU mission creep right across our statute book.

Dynamic alignment neutralises many of the main advantages of us leaving the EU, while scoring the EU the major win of imposing rules on us that could never have been drafted in the same way had we been in the room.

I have no problem with the EU being as bureaucratic, centralising and absurd as it likes with its own rules in its own market place. I do have a problem with us continuing to suffer for it.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm saying here that the space for a deal is on agreeing to a level playing field. This is my optimistic scenario as we can't fight geoeconomics so will have to do something similar anyway at some stage so why worsen our suffering economy? The pessimistic scenario is as outlined by Damien with Boris too afraid to take on the hardine Brexiters in his party.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Absolutely get the issues although only Pritti Patel's calculator would calculate a 5%-10% uplift in GDP as suffering for it. ;)

I don't think it's impossible for BoJo to agree to a deal along the level-playing-field lines at the last minute. He stitched up the DUP over the border in the Irish Sea so he had form here.
How well he would honour such an agreement is open to question but he would probably enjoy stirring up the benchbenchers in the event of later confrontations with the EU.

It's the subsequent political impact of no deal outside the Conservative Party that would encourage a climbdown on BoJo's part.

He knows the chaos and negative economic impact especially in the Red Wall seats and the country is poorly prepared for such an eventuality according to the logistics and transport sector. It would hand Sturgeon a cherished majority and a successful vote for independence. Sir Keir would grill a confused BoJo every Wednesday before wearied, BoJo would hand the keys for No 10 to Sunak who would send a chastened Frost back to Brussels to sort out a deal aligning us more closely to the EU. From a position of weakness and even smaller population given Scotland's likely independence in the event of no deal.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No point using anyone using a calculator when simple guesswork is involved.

Boris conceding to the EU will cause more grief than you can imagine . . Farage is waiting in the wings to lead his army once again if the need arises ;)

Keir is all talk with no substance, and Sunak is too clever to get himself the keys to No 10 until after the dust has settled.

Scotlands likely independence has the same chance as trains running on time.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Other trade deals will not carry an expectation that we sign up to the laws of their countries and give up our territorial waters!

Several trade deals are nearing completion, including Australia and Japan. No such problems with them.

---------- Post added at 09:02 ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 ----------

Wrong again. It's about honouring the result of the EU referendum and carrying out the clear mandate of the government.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

A level playing field equates to taking EU laws, it seems. That ain't going to happen.

---------- Post added at 09:10 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

But it's not a basis for a deal! This puts us in a worse place than being part of the EU!! Why can you not see that?

We will not be a slave to the EU, and if that's what you believe, you are sadly mistaken. The British people will not stand for that.

You are, it seems, obsessed with geoeconomics, which is not as relevant as it used to be. The EU is convenient as it is close, but it is not the be all and end all.

Sorry, Andrew, but your scenario is not optimistic at all - it is defeatist.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The trains are currently running on time, but no one's on them. I can't see much changing to alter Scots' views on independence.
A fair summary for BoJo is he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. But in Sunak'a case, you cannot chose when you inherit
Sir Keir is not in power but is a substantive opposition leader with an enviable track record of fighting criminals and terrorists. Thereby making him a hard character to criticise if you position yourself as a party of law and order.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Head Goverment Lawyer has resigned over the 'rowing back' of the NI agreement: https://www.ft.com/content/6186bf1c-...3-4eea763e1b94

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If your lawyer is working for the other side,it's best to get rid.


None paywall version https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-over-22647171

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Wow! That's a damning inditement of the current government isn't it?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

A non-paywall link would be nice.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

What "rowing back"?:rolleyes:
Link

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

See also http://news.sky.com/story/jonathan-j...s-say-12066488

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Probably get 1 million to 1 odds on that happening at the bookies;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Integrity may be just another unfashionable British value to some in government but it's not to Jonathan Jones. I suggest you join me and get behind this great country of ours by applauding his true upholding of British values.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Seeing as you're willing to spin this so shamelessly, allow me to present a view from the opposite extreme:

https://order-order.com/2020/09/08/c...aier-clearout/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Who says integrity has anything to do with it?
Certain things in relation to NI have to be specified and set down before the end of the transition period. Eg Which goods from GB into NI are to be liable for customs duties. No getting away from that. That is in the revised NI protocol.
Little point in legislating the detail of the "backstop", until it's become unavoidable.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Order Order. From the mouth of Dominic Cummings. Sigh.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

That would be an ad hominem attack on the source of the report rather than on its content ;)

Aside from the fact that I did place the quote at the opposite extreme to your bizarre attempt to paint Jones’ resignation as a great act of patriotism, what do you say to the claim that Guido’s source in government suggests that Jones is actually just another arch remainer in the upper echelons of the civil service that has finally realised the game is up?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

something containing the words door arse way out:)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not really such a bizarre comment of mine when the context was a response to Seph.
Civil servants pride themselves on being apolitical and have worked hard to deliver Brexit, regardlessof their feelings one way or the other. Those I've met have actually been largely pro Brexit due to the career opportunities it's opened up.
Slurring a senior civil servant as a Remainer because he takes a stand on being asked to undermine or potentially break an international treaty is lazy, desperate or probably both.
Let's see how this plays out. It's not a good omen.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

A remainer endorsing him, doesn't exactly contradict things.:rolleyes:
Link

How else is the Government meant to legislate on this?

With no alternative trade deal on the horizon, that has to now be legislated for.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54073836

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You would expect the opposition to put the boot in and it has.
I had previously thought this legislation was just a tidying up exercise to cover no-deal and had not commented at tbe time. This landmark resignation potentially casts a dark cloud over this.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Claims of violence if the "peace process" isn't followed is breaking international law. There can be no "consent freely given" whilst there are threats. The backstop itself breaks the EU treaties, as any Transitional Agreement has to be temporary, not ongoing.