Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

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Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

AFAIK VAT was introduced to pay our contributions to the EU. Don't all EU countrirs have VAT as a way of funding their contributions to the EU? I'm not sure if this new tax paid for the full or only part of our contributions.

If it paid for our full EU costs, it didn't cost our Government any extra, as it was the public that paid for it.

I think that VAT replaced a lower sales tax, so for any extra money to arise out of us leaving (net of the ongoing commitments) the Government will have to continue taxing us at the current rate.

If they scrap VAT (can the public be charged it if we aren't in the EU?) and replace it with the old lower sales tax, there won't be any spare money to spend or reduce other taxes!

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Considering how much money lockdowns are costing us, I think it very unlikely any taxes will be reduced.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

VAT is a harmonised consumption tax that applies across the EU, ostensibly to simplify what can otherwise be quite complex systems of taxes within a manufacturing and sales chain. The EU’s justification for it is that it prevents member states “accidentally” subsidising industry by overestimating tax receipts and overpaying refunds to manufacturers.

The EU doesn’t directly collect VAT (not even a portion of it), but a member state’s VAT receipts are part of the way its contribution to the EU budget is calculated.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Here’s a questions and answers web page from the EU - https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres.../qanda_20_2532

Only picked an EU page as there doesn’t seem to be a UK equivalent. It’s quite long but is quite useful. Some good points include;

Continuation of most aviation services ‘as is’
Continuation of membership of ECHR needed to get security database access
Sticking a pin in the 31st December as the point of reference for the level playing field. Any lowering of standards could trigger problems
Commonality of food standards including ‘antibiotics and decontaminants’ solving the chlorinated chicken issue

Bummer that my qualifications won’t be recognised going forwards though.

Still working my way through...

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Your qualifications won’t be recognised as a right but there are well established processes for gaining recognition. Most of the world is not in the EU, and professionally qualified people can and do travel all over the world.

The ECHR is not an organ of the EU. It was set up mostly by us at the end of World War 2 to ensure any future atrocities could be prosecuted from a firm legal basis rather than on a hastily agreed set of principles formulated from a medieval concept called Natural Law (which is in turn rooted in Classical Greek philosophy (principally Aristotle). Given Europe’s history, membership of it should be a basic requirement for any country to be deemed civilised.

The food standards regs would prevent uk producers exporting chlorine washed chicken to the EU but as we are outside their single market it’s hard to see how that rule would prevent us importing it if we chose.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36063856)

The ECHR is not an organ of the EU. It was set up mostly by us at the end of World War 2 to ensure any future atrocities could be prosecuted from a firm legal basis rather than on a hastily agreed set of principles formulated from a medieval concept called Natural Law (which is in turn rooted in Classical Greek philosophy (principally Aristotle). Given Europe’s history, membership of it should be a basic requirement for any country to be deemed civilised.

The food standards regs would prevent uk producers exporting chlorine washed chicken to the EU but as we are outside their single market it’s hard to see how that rule would prevent us importing it if we chose.

Oh absolutely, I have had many discussions with leavers on the fact that the ECHR and the EU are different things (though being a member is a requirement of being a member of the EU) I am sure however that certain politicians would love to be rid of it. Sovereignty, foreign courts and all that.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

I’m really hot on sovereignty but I’m willing to make an exception for the ECHR. Besides, as it’s a single treaty and not enmeshed with a shedload of other stuff, arguably it doesn’t impinge on sovereignty in the way the EU does. We could walk away from the ECHR without anything like the palaver of the last 4 years. Not that we should.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36063841)

AFAIK VAT was introduced to pay our contributions to the EU. Don't all EU countrirs have VAT as a way of funding their contributions to the EU? I'm not sure if this new tax paid for the full or only part of our contributions.

If it paid for our full EU costs, it didn't cost our Government any extra, as it was the public that paid for it.

I think that VAT replaced a lower sales tax, so for any extra money to arise out of us leaving (net of the ongoing commitments) the Government will have to continue taxing us at the current rate.

If they scrap VAT (can the public be charged it if we aren't in the EU?) and replace it with the old lower sales tax, there won't be any spare money to spend or reduce other taxes!

VAT raised £130 billion last year in the U.K., and we paid the EU (after rebate) between £8 billion and £11 billion (depending if we count payments that the EU makes directly to the UK private sector such as grants to universities.).

I don’t think we will be abolishing VAT...

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36063830)

Thank you for the additional information, Hugh. I am still catching up at the moment!

Yes, having skimmed the document, there appear to be no concessions on financial services. I thought that was too good to be true!

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

They'd better get this vote done quick as the troublemakers are starting to read the small print !

Sir Keir will come to Boris' rescue anyway :)

Quote:

Fishing chiefs cry ‘betrayal’ as MPs fear rush to ratify Brexit deal
‘UK caved in on fish to win a wider treaty’, industry bodies say, while leading Brexiter David Davis says one-day debate is ‘too fast’
Senior Conservative MPs late on Saturday expressed alarm at plans to rush the historic UK-EU trade deal through parliament in just one day, as fishermen’s leaders accused Boris Johnson of “caving in” at the 11th hour to clinch agreement on Christmas Eve.

And there were growing fears among senior Tories, who will spend the next three days poring over the 2,000-page agreement published on Saturday, that details in the fine print could still allow the EU to impose punitive tariffs on British exports if businesses fail to follow European rules.

While the deal unveiled by the prime minister and European commission president Ursula von der Leyen looks certain to pass through the Westminster parliament, largely because Labour will back it, pro-Brexit MPs remain determined not to fall into the trap of endorsing the full agreement before having subjected every clause to full scrutiny.

Downing Street’s chief Brexit negotiator, Lord Frost, said the agreement would allow “national renewal” and permit the UK to “set its own laws again”.

But as he did so, British fishermen increasingly vented their anger, saying promises made by Leavers that they would regain control of all UK fishing waters by voting for Brexit had been broken. Barrie Deas, chief executive of the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, claimed his industry had been betrayed in order to win a wider deal. “In the endgame, the prime minister made the call and caved in on fish, despite the rhetoric and assurances that he would not do what Ted Heath did in 1973.”

UK Fisheries chief executive Jane Sandell was less outspoken but agreed that pledges made had not been honoured: “We’re pleased that the UK-EU deal will bring some kind of certainty to parts of our industry, although we’re still looking for the ‘prodigious amounts of fish’ we were promised, and for us it changes nothing.”

MPs will have just one day to debate and vote on the deal that will effectively seal Brexit and create a future framework for the relationship between London and Brussels, on Wednesday.

The UK left the EU on 31 January this year, triggering an 11-month transition period in which to implement the decision. This will end on New Year’s Eve, making it the moment the country leaves the single market and customs union.

The Tory MP and former Brexit secretary David Davis told the Observer he wanted reassurances that the deal would not allow the EU to impose a wide range of tariffs on UK goods if there were future disagreements over fishing rights.
....
Peter Bone, the veteran MP for Wellingborough, said he understood that time was very limited but likened the issue to budgets, which often seem to please everyone when first unveiled – but then turn out to be riddled with problems and loopholes. “It is exactly like a budget. Most of us think this looks good, but let’s just have time to check back and establish that it is what it appears to be.”

On Saturday, legal experts from a so-called star chamber of judges and lawyers appointed by the hardline pro-Brexit European Research Group were beginning to comb through the fine print. Asked when the white smoke of approval might emerge, another senior MP said it was premature to think Eurosceptics would give the deal unqualified backing: “It might not be white smoke. It might be black smoke.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

I think it was a sensible compromise regarding the fish. A phased approach leading to the same model as Norway in 5 years time.

We were always going to give EU boats access, I’m assuming our boats have reciprocal access to EU waters over the same period.

And after 5 years access to each other’s waters is a matter of negotiation.

Though I do love the SNPs front. I don’t how they can criticise and keep a straight face.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36063845)

Considering how much money lockdowns are costing us, I think it very unlikely any taxes will be reduced.

Neither do I. I think that they might have to change the name of VAT from January, but it will be at least the same amount.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36063876)

Neither do I. I think that they might have to change the name of VAT from January, but it will be at least the same amount.

Don't see why they should change the name, it's not a trademark. Countries outside the EU use the term including Bangladesh, Mexico and South Africa.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36063876)

Neither do I. I think that they might have to change the name of VAT from January, but it will be at least the same amount.

:confused: Why would we need to change the name of VAT? Most countries(main exception being the US) around the world have a similar system, and many refer to it as VAT.

Re: UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36063877)

Don't see why they should change the name, it's not a trademark. Countries outside the EU use the term including Bangladesh, Mexico and South Africa.

Even Poland. They colloquially call it V A T with UK pronunciation. The official term is Podatek od towarów i usług and abbreviation is Podatek od towarów i usług a(PTU).