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-   -   Football : Season 2013/14 & Summer Window (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33693587)

Damien 02-02-2014 21:24
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35668478)
And Everton are one of the clubs ripe for a takeover and what would you rather have, billionaire owners putting their hand in their pocket or billionaire owners raping the club and of course the incentive is their or else clubs like spuds and Everton wouldn't keep trying.
That doesn't have to be the choice. Ideally I would rather than the German model where the fans have to own half the club but that is going to happen any time soon. So I would rather than the self-sustaining business model so that the future of a club isn't dependent on money that comes from outside the club and clubs which look long-term and develop their facilities are rewarded.

This isn't about protecting the little guy. The Champions League has distorted competition but the answer to that isn't to distort it even further by allowing one club to spend billions of pounds more. That makes the inequality worse. Not every club isn't going to get these rich owners. In the end there will be a handful of clubs bankrolled by the billionaires and the difference between them and the rest will be even more vast. You won't get clubs like Everton and Spurs breaking into that top 4.

Then there would be no point because there will be nothing you can do to match them, no footballing or business achievement to get where they are. They will have revenue that will never be available to you no matter how much you invest in your stadium, your team and your future.

TheDaddy 02-02-2014 21:41
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35668499)
That doesn't have to be the choice. Ideally I would rather than the German model where the fans have to own half the club but that is going to happen any time soon. So I would rather than the self-sustaining business model so that the future of a club isn't dependent on money that comes from outside the club and clubs which look long-term and develop their facilities are rewarded.

This isn't about protecting the little guy. The Champions League has distorted competition but the answer to that isn't to distort it even further by allowing one club to spend billions of pounds more. That makes the inequality worse. Not every club isn't going to get these rich owners. In the end there will be a handful of clubs bankrolled by the billionaires and the difference between them and the rest will be even more vast. You won't get clubs like Everton and Spurs breaking into that top 4.

Then there would be no point because there will be nothing you can do to match them, no footballing or business achievement to get where they are. They will have revenue that will never be available to you no matter how much you invest in your stadium, your team and your future.
I disagree, the rich clubs can't buy all the players, money gives them an advantage nothing more. Yes look at Germany, where one club dominates the rest or Spain where it's two. By not allowing rich owners to invest you're protecting the status quo, why do you think Chelsea are so against the likes of man city, for the good of the game or the good of the owner?

Damien 02-02-2014 21:55
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35668510)
I disagree, the rich clubs can't buy all the players, money gives them an advantage nothing more. Yes look at Germany, where one club dominates the rest or Spain where it's two. By not allowing rich owners to invest you're protecting the status quo, why do you think Chelsea are so against the likes of man city, for the good of the game or the good of the owner?
No. Their serving their own interests just as Arsenal and United are doing too. Ditto Spurs and Liverpool. Although in fairness to the last four that's how they've been operating for years anyway. Also the reason the PL is not like Spain is because we redistribute the money a lot more fairly allowing stronger squads across the league. We should have more of that, not less, and work to reduce the economic disparity between clubs. FFP isn't perfect, it doesn't do anything about the CL advantage, but it is a start. At the very least FFP will help curtain wage inflation which will be a win for the smaller clubs. Also clubs can invest. Money for training facilities, youth programmes, and stadium improvements are all ignored by FFP.

The problem is the league is an entertainment product and every club plays their part in that. This is something even the Americans have recognised by making their league system for the NFL a lot more socialist.

Mr Pharmacist 02-02-2014 22:11
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
I honestly don't see FFP working. Too many leagues all working under different structures and vastly different laws to start with. From the ease of obtaining work permits in certain countries to the tax free haven at Monaco. Every FA would have to agree to work with one another regarding every single aspect and make it equal in every way, which ain't gonna happen. A lawyer involved with the Bosman ruling is already preparing to go to court. http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/...another-pompey

TheDaddy 02-02-2014 22:16
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35668516)
No. Their serving their own interests just as Arsenal and United are doing too. Ditto Spurs and Liverpool. Although in fairness to the last four that's how they've been operating for years anyway. Also the reason the PL is not like Spain is because we redistribute the money a lot more fairly allowing stronger squads across the league. We should have more of that, not less, and work to reduce the economic disparity between clubs. FFP isn't perfect, it doesn't do anything about the CL advantage, but it is a start. At the very least FFP will help curtain wage inflation which will be a win for the smaller clubs. Also clubs can invest. Money for training facilities, youth programmes, and stadium improvements are all ignored by FFP.

The problem is the league is an entertainment product and every club plays their part in that. This is something even the Americans have recognised by making their league system for the NFL a lot more socialist.
The American owners are the big problem imo, far more so than some sheik or oligarch, they seem interested in what they can take out of clubs rather than what they can put in, I liked it when local businessmen who were fans owned the clubs but much like the fans they were used to they've been priced out to. Wage inflation is out of control but I can't see any ffp wage savings being passed on to the paying punter, I remember linaker at spuds being the countries best paid player on a grand a week and Chris suttons move to Blackburn being criticised because he was earning 5000 per week, halcyon days

Damien 02-02-2014 22:21
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35668519)
The American owners are the big problem imo, far more so than some sheik or oligarch, they seem interested in what they can take out of clubs rather than what they can put in, I liked it when local businessmen who were fans owned the clubs but much like the fans they were used to they've been priced out to.
I don't think American owners are a problem. The idea of a club being a business make sense from everyone's stand point as then they're constrained by market forces and not making a loss, which is surely a healthy approach to a football club.

I also prefer the old system too. I liked it when Arsenal were owned by several people who had long associations with the club but there you go.

Quote:
Wage inflation is out of control but I can't see any ffp wage savings being passed on to the paying punter, I remember linaker at spuds being the countries best paid player on a grand a week and Chris suttons move to Blackburn being criticised because he was earning 5000 per week, halcyon days
No I too doubt they'll be passed onto the punter but at least it would curtain it getting worse and the clubs won't lose as much money. Only a handful of clubs made a profit last year. The state of football's finances are shocking. I think we need a even more retribution of money from the likes of Arsenal, City, Chelsea etc to the rest quite soon.

TheDaddy 02-02-2014 22:45
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35668520)
I don't think American owners are a problem. The idea of a club being a business make sense from everyone's stand point as then they're constrained by market forces and not making a loss, which is surely a healthy approach to a football club.

I also prefer the old system too. I liked it when Arsenal were owned by several people who had long associations with the club but there you go.



No I too doubt they'll be passed onto the punter but at least it would curtain it getting worse and the clubs won't lose as much money. Only a handful of clubs made a profit last year. The state of football's finances are shocking. I think we need a even more retribution of money from the likes of Arsenal, City, Chelsea etc to the rest quite soon.
Football clubs aren't businesses and shouldn't be run to give someone a profit, they're the communities and fans their in and 'owners' are mere custodians, that said it'd be better if they didn't make huge losses.

Damien 02-02-2014 23:11
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35668526)
Football clubs aren't businesses and shouldn't be run to give someone a profit, they're the communities and fans their in and 'owners' are mere custodians, that said it'd be better if they didn't make huge losses.
They're are businesses though. All of football is a business. We may wish this was not so but that's the reality of the situation.

TheDaddy 03-02-2014 01:00
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35668531)
They're are businesses though. All of football is a business. We may wish this was not so but that's the reality of the situation.
They aren't businesses, businesses are run for profit in the main, football clubs aren't, businesses have customers, clubs have fans and they aren't the same thing either.

thenry 03-02-2014 13:46
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Barcelona's board of directors have rejected the option of building a new stadium and will push ahead with a remodelling of the Nou Camp.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2014/02/54.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...extension.html

denphone 03-02-2014 13:50
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
l am not surprised by their decision because to build a new stadium would have been much more expensive.

thenry 03-02-2014 13:50
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
:rofl:

#CleverleyIn

richard s 03-02-2014 13:59
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Real Madrid stadium redesign.

http://www.thelocal.es/20140130/cata...rnabeu-stadium

thenry 03-02-2014 14:01
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
yes they seem to always be attempting to out-do each other

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/88...l#post35667738

colin25 03-02-2014 15:58
Re: Football Season 2013/14 & Summer Window
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35668552)
They aren't businesses, businesses are run for profit in the main, football clubs aren't, businesses have customers, clubs have fans and they aren't the same thing either.
You are both right, and both wrong.

If a club is owned by someone other than the fans, it is a business, whether it is run to make a profit is different. EG Man Utd has been profitable for the glaziers.

It needs to pay its debt, and if it doesn't..it is made to. (on that point I applaud the Treasury)

But unlike most businesses, it needs the fans onside, else the "business model" will fail


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