Re: Coronavirus
 

Every person prosecuted under Coronavirus Act was 'wrongly charged', CPS admits


https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-15/...onavirus-laws/



Dozens of people have been wrongly charged by police under a new coronavirus law, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has admitted.

All 44 charges brought under the Coronavirus Act, which allows officers to remove or detain a "suspected infectious person" for screening and assessment, since it was brought in on March 27 were incorrect.

And 12 charges under the Health Protection Regulations 2020, which give powers to break up gatherings and fine people breaching restriction of movement rules, were also wrong.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well there are certain things you simply cannot do in a social distancing situation. Clubbing, drinking in bars. I'm told that in Geneva restaurants are open but limited to 4 per table.

This is damaging to the economy, there is no two ways about it. It is simply to what degree of damaging.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52669441

Why pick the one group of children that really cannot be expected to understand social distancing? Why the rush? Or yet again is the teaching profession regarded as merely childminders? And yes I understand the need to ensure that the least advantaged children get an education but I can't help thinking that adjustments can be made later by extending the teaching day so as to cover missed work. Why risk it now?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly ! Reception and year1 is a bizarre choice to get the ball rolling. Getting them to stay put and socially distance is akin to herding cats.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not about the kids and teachers, it's about getting their parents back to work, regardless of consequences. Hence the youngest kids most likely to need parents first.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not at Eton though!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m simply making a statement of fact. How others interpret that is up to them.

I’d be very interested in the science.

I don’t feel the need to challenge Mr. K although don’t always agree. There’s enough people on the case already.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I know that I just think they should have chosen an older group like secondary age.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not many reception and year 1 children at Eton* ;)

*it starts at year 9 (aged 13 or so)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I messaged a guy at work as to things at work.


A guy whose wife was in ICU with COVID-19 is now back at home and he is back to work on monday.


My mate said there are rumours of another 8 being furloughed.

So it looks like I may not be going back on July 1st.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Correct and I can’t wait to send mine back

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-chief-...ning-guidance/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Particularly as they will have exams to consider.

---------- Post added at 14:55 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

The British Heart Foundation is questioning the logic of having a blanket 70+ policy, seeing as slightly older women cope with the virus better. Maybe it should be changed to men over 65?

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsu...i_u=8-15893393

Why are so many BAME people dying of the virus? This is their take on it:

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsu...i_u=8-15893393

Re: Coronavirus
 

Schools open. Kids go back to school. Parents go back to work. Stocks of supplies rebuilt ready for the next wave. School close. Kids stay home. Parents stay home. Stocks diminish. And repeat....

Re: Coronavirus
 

As mentioned earlier, there is nothing scientific about the decision, it is a Political and economic decision.

One that I support.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which is why teachers are rightly concerned.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A stupid and reckless one at that, but they're still hiding behind the (lack of) science to justify it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is not appropriate to set an age limit. Some 75-year-olds are healthier than some 40-year-olds. This is age discrimination.

Restrictions should be recommended (not imposed) on those with underlying medical conditions that make the person susceptible to the coronavirus.

Everyone else should be going back to work.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At last an admission that “back to work” has no basis in medical science, risking a deadly second wave and is simply the Tories acting on a wing and a prayer hoping to revive the economy.

Of course, they ignore the long term devastating economic impact of a second wave (and inevitable second lockdown).

This would be entertaining if it wasn’t so tragic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Including you OB? Or are you happy for others take the risk on your behalf?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If everyone else should be going back to work, why do we have the furlough scheme?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's no simple answer to any of this. That is despite the many studies of the effect of school closures and the 151 page UK government summary report from May 2014. That report included references to 171 studies.


A key factor is, how well have people been behaving during the lockdown? If the chaining(passing from one person to another and so on) of infections has been properly broken, there should be fewer people out there infected. If people have been regularly meeting up with random people during a lockdown, then the potential is there to resurface when a lockdown is eased(eg South Korea).

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is a simple answer. Until it’s safe to ease lockdown measures we should not be doing so. That depends on testing, tracing and isolating. Internationally recognised best practice we ignored in February with a complacent approach and similarly I see no evidence that we are well placed to do it now.

A second wave is inevitable now at massive human and economic cost.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It has been recommendations, not imposition.:rolleyes: It has been important to not unnecessarily overwhelm the health system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don’t think it is stupid or reckless, I think it’s necessary.

We’re not going back to normal anytime soon, but we’ve got to start the direction of travel.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

You think it’s necessary based on fag packet understanding of economics. We aren’t going back to normal anytime soon, so what’s the rush and risk doing it badly?

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

And that won’t capture the idiocy of the VE Day street parties for a further week. While spread across the country, that’s a new Cheltenham or Athletico Madrid v Liverpool game right there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That hasn't worked in South Korea. Which countries(apart from South Korea) allowed tracking of phone data? Tracing will not catch everybody as there are too many casual encounters(eg in the same shop).

Technically it will never be possible to end lockdown, as the very least there will always be another virus to come along.

Eg Spanish Flu outbreak in Connecticut, 3 cities didn't close schools and had fewer deaths, than in at least 2 cities that did close schools. But that shouldn't be used as a definitive answer because there are so many other factors involved.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What do you mean it hasn’t worked? Tiny number of deaths, cases identified and isolated quickly. People going around their day to day lives in relative normality. They’ve held national elections in this time.

How do you define success? 30,000 deaths? A massacre in care homes? Genuinely I’d really like to know.

Re: Coronavirus
 

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------



The not irritating at all Gavin Williamson politiciansplained that they're providing a "bubble" for the teachers with their good advice. Not sure if it's a bubble of alertness or maybe one of control but I hope it's better than the bubble of criminal incompetence they put in the care homes.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What party is in power is not exactly relevant.
A different government would be just as keen to revive the economy, or perhaps you would prefer they just werck it completely ?

Once again with the insulting digs. Are you really that keen to take another rest ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There has been an outbreak of cases in South Korea after the easing of lockdown.

61% of cases were tracked back to one person, and that was triggered by the doctor breaking the rules on criteria for testing. Now imagine if instead of just one person, it was 10 in the UK, that would've(ie has) resulted in MANY more cases even WITH testing and tracing. South Korea had at LEAST 61% of their cases BEFORE testing and tracing could have any impact.

How would you have gone about tracing people when just look at the fuss over the proposed app.
South Korea

Re: Coronavirus
 

And they found it. That’s success.

With open international borders this will become a necessity for all countries if we want “normal”. Otherwise it’s “oh, you’ve came from the UK wait there while I check my chart? Second highest death count in the world? 14 days in the cell thanks”.

61% of cases occurred before testing and tracing had any impact simply because of the success they had using such methods. Had they not been successful it’d have been much worse.

Tell them it’ll be good for the economy. If they’re willing to make human sacrifice of teachers then I’m sure installing an app is neither here nor there. The data collected is considered intrusive, however so is significant restrictions on movement, restrictions on activities, closed pubs, bars, cinemas.

Unfortunately until the UK recognises international best practice for dealing with pandemics and implements it properly then we are in various states of lockdown and economic recession for some time to come. I’m not sure who gains from ignoring this self evident reality.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

I’ll refer to “the Government” then instead of the Tories. I’ve no preference to see the economy wrecked, however it’s a flawed understanding to assume that easing restrictions quickly automatically leads to (or speeds up) recovery.

Sweden is going into recession without a lockdown.

The economic outcome and health outcome are now intertwined. Significant easing of restrictions without adequate testing and contact tracing leaves us heading to an Italy (or a repeat of UK wave 1) type situation within 4-6 weeks of easing restrictions, a further complete lockdown and further economic chaos.

And no, I’m not keen on that rest. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------

Why am I not surprised? I just wish this government would be more honest. This going back to school can be gussied up to be concerns for vulnerable and poorer ability children but it's just a desire to use teachers and nursery staff as childminders so as to get the country back to work. Just be honest Boris..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not at FR/Y1 level. Ability doesn’t come into it.

Well nursery staff are childminders.

But yes, I would greatly appreciate my youngest to back to FR, and/or when school is over to go to holiday club. Myself and Mrs Pierre are both working full time and simply don’t have the time to home school as well. We’re trying but it’s not great. If youngest goes back we can at least do more with their sibling in Y4.

who cares we all know anyway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They obviously think enough people care - hence why they are running a disinformation campaign and attacking the unions and medical professionals who are sceptical about the value of opening schools.

Medical evidence is out the window and human life is dispensable as long as we can reopen the economy.

In a few months time it'll be we 'threw a protective bubble around schools' regardless of outcome.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just on the point of everyone else should be going back to work

Permit me to quote the Tory leader, and Prime Minister, himself in the Telegraph.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...new-rules.html

Some shops no earlier than June. Not all, not even most, but some. Indicating to me that the Government does not expect the majority of retail workers to go back to work.

Leisure and hospitality looks an even greyer area, further out in time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://corrierequotidiano.it/econom...gran-bretagna/

Free movement in Italy from 3rd June 2020 - visitors from the Schengen Area, and Great Britain, will not be subject to restrictions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And beaches are open in Greece, expect Spain to follow soon.

These are summer countries, and summer countries need summer dollars.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...eased-11989275

https://www.newindianexpress.com/wor...g-2144205.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Expect the EU to complain about that very soon.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...19-checks.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's their way or the highway;)
If we don't do as we are told they will chuck us out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A trip to the European Court of Justice is quite cheap compared to inviting a second coronavirus wave to your shores. It’s also time consuming enough to obfuscate the matter long enough to be irrelevant.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU does not need to complain as Boris has confirmed that there isn't a French exemption after all. https://www.ft.com/content/ddf6b198-...4-aef8b5d8fb06
https://www.ft.com/content/ddf6b198-...4-aef8b5d8fb06.

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Llamas to the rescue?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...study-benefits

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lamas? Hell I’ll try just about anything right now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Fire up the Barbie.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just trying to pull the wool over your eyes, bleating about another possible cure


:Sprint:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seems a bit harsh, but OK...

Re: Coronavirus
 

:Yikes: :rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Loss of taste and smell added to official symptoms list

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wonderful

I expect to see a massive increase in the amount of people infected when all those with a heavy cold/mild flu input their symptoms into the tracing app.

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Based on a few friends' choice in music, they've had CV-19 for a long time! :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...xR37PyHbUBrngo

Seriously?Is it really going to be a case of leaving the rest of the world to tread water?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Brits to be the first to get coronavirus vaccine if UK make 30 million successful doses by September

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/116437...us-vaccine-uk/

Re: Coronavirus
 

One of the something like 400 clinical trials on vaccines ongoing. Can file this away with the antibody test stories from March/April.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd rather have an accurate anti-body test available before end of June.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Sun What she actually said.. And she said that in early April, before the clinical trials started on the 24th April - the Sun is just recycling old news...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Serum tests in Spain are showing that antibodies are present in about 5% of the population. The centre of an outbreak in Germany (Heinsberg) is showing 14%.

I'd gladly be wrong but I suspect the view that most people don't know they've had the virus and go about their lives as normal will be proven incorrect.

That said, we do have catch up to since we have tested so few symptomatic patients to date. So probably worthwhile but not the silver bullet some hope for.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the UK has 30 million doses of the Oxford vaccine available in September, I'll be a monkeys uncle. In fact, I will happily punt £10 for whatever boondoggle Nigel Farage is involved in at that time if it happens.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You'd think the Govt would have learned from the Turkish PPE fiasco - announcing something before they'd ordered it, and it turned out to be useless.

Re: Coronavirus
 

tbf, they didn’t.

It’s the Sun conflating the funding given by the Government and taking the best possible scenario from the testing (which no one in the real world would ever do...).

As the actual test lab (Oxford Vaccine Centre) says about the Phase 1 tests

Re: Coronavirus
 

Phase I tests aren't even tests to see if the vaccine works, it's just a safety study to make sure the vaccine doesn't kill people. Phase II will test to see if the vaccine raises an immune response while phase III will test to see if the vaccine protects against coronavirus.

There are some serious ethical issues with phase III as there is no reliable treatment for COVID19 so you can't just be injecting people with virus to see if the vaccine protects. The added wrinkle is that the prevalence of COVID19 in the wild is quite low so you would need to give a LOT of people the vaccine to get an idea if the vaccine protects. We're talking more than 30,000 people.

You can roll up phase II and III together if you're in a real hurry but it is a big risk...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which strain will it protect against? One? Or all 3?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Where do you get 3 from ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

As far as I understand Covid-19 is the name of the infection caused by the SARS-CoV-2 Virus. It has been reported that there may be several different strains of Covid-19

https://virologydownunder.com/covid-...sars-cov-2-is/

Although there are several mutations of Covid-19 it is the SARS-CoV-2 Virus that is being used to find an antibodies test and vaccine and this virus has not mutated.

http://www.labnews.co.uk/article/203...as-not-mutated

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52717161

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most drug treatments may be unsafe.
I guess he decided catching CV19 was even more unsafe.

According to Wikipedia ;

"As of 22 April 2020, there is limited evidence to support the use of hydroxychloroquine."

Also, the US National Institutes of Health (NIH) has apparently begun a trial of the medication.

Re: Coronavirus
 

For treatment of people that already have Covid-19, not as a prophylactic

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...treat-covid-19
and

Re: Coronavirus
 

He should definitely keep taking the tablets.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This hydroxychloroquine stuff is really eye opening, they sell boat loads of it to Africa for Malaria but suddenly it's the most dangerous substance on earth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

of course it is, because Trump says it is safe. It's simple really.

Re: Coronavirus
 

"for Malaria*" is the crux of the matter, not for COVID-19 - in fact, the European Medicines Agency stated last month

There is no consistent scientific proof this will prevent COVID-19 (and small mixed results on treating COVID-19 infection).



*treating malaria, not preventing it, also to treat lupus and rheumatoid arthritis

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course not, it's a new virus, doctors have to make wide guesses until a treatment is formalised.

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------

It doesn't really "cure" anything, it hinders the virus from gaining a foothold in the body. Basically you take it soon after or before infection and it is suppose to ensure a less sever disease.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's not how medicine works. 'Wide guesses' aren't a thing.

Trials and evidence are what guide clinical decisions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you meant wild guesses

A) I’d rather they didn’t
B) Trump isn’t a doctor

Re: Coronavirus
 

Trump didn't pull this out of his ass (at least not quite). Some doctors were trying hydroxychloroquine because it's a cheap anti-viral agent and they are trying to stop a virus. Trump read this in some document, half remembered it and said it's a promising treatment.

It may very well do nothing or even be harmful in the cases of covid. But this idea is that it is somehow crazy to even consider it is bizarre.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s not crazy to consider it, but he’s not considering it, he’s taking it - and, whether we like it or not, people see him as a role model and will emulate him, with potentially serious side-effects from something that has not been proven to work (and the knock on effect of lupus patients not being able to get hold of it).

If, after trials (like they are doing for vaccines), it was shown to work, fine - but that’s not what is happening here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well normally I would say that he must be taking it on advice from his doctor. But knowing this is Trump it wouldn't surprise me if he just made the whole thing up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This letter from his doctor is very carefully worded, and doesn’t actually state that Trump is taking the medicine.

And Trump said Remember, the Food and Drug Administration has cautioned against the use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 treatment outside of hospitals or clinical trials due to the risk of heart rhythm problems - they said "Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing COVID-19,"

Re: Coronavirus
 

He didnt make it up, hes known about it for sometime.

Heres an article from back in early April : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52222367

Re: Coronavirus
 

I mean make up the fact he was taking it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The amount of people I see with Trump haircuts and long neck ties, yes he certainly is!

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’re confusing "impersonation" with "copying behaviours"... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, it's not like he ever ever lies:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7027991.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

This proposal would be entertaining if it wasn’t so deadly.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52723101

The country with the second most deaths in the world proposing to not quarantine passengers from the deadliest county.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The virus hasn't mutated to a significant degree

Re: Coronavirus
 

Monday morning quarterbackery.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s helpful if you quote a post if directly referring to it, however you can’t possibly mean my last post. It’s very much Friday afternoon on that one.

Your selective quoting at least let the author of the post know who you were directing your response at.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The post he replied to has been deleted by the poster, nothing to see, move on. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chilling report from Radio 4's File on Four Programme "The Care Homes Catastrophe"
Snippett: https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status...712453/photo/1
Listen :https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000j81c

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am just glad my mum is safe. Her home stopped visitors the week before lockdown and their measures are so good they have not had a single case of COVID-19 at all. However my father in law's home has had a large number of cases and a number of patient deaths. It really is a scandal how bad some homes have gotten.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can't really blame the care homes.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-says-11991378

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Lancet has corrected Donald Trump's claims in his letter to the World Health Organization.
The journal states that the allegation that the WHO “consistently ignored credible reports of the virus spreading in Wuhan in early December 2019 or even earlier, including reports from The Lancet medical journal was incorrect as the the first reports the journal published were only on January 24, 2020.
https://twitter.com/richardhorton1/s...265089/photo/1

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36035817) I am just glad my mum is safe. Her home stopped visitors the week before lockdown and their measures are so good they have not had a single case of COVID-19 at all. However my father in law's home has had a large number of cases and a number of patient deaths. It really is a scandal how bad some homes have gotten.

The nursing home my mum is in has no visitors either.

My mum is in her 5th week there, but she hasn't been able to leave her room as she is bed ridden and has sores.


But soon they will put her into a chair and take her to the group area, she will be able to eat there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thinking of all those people hit by Cyclone Amphan. Not only have to cope with regular poverty and health now have Covid and then a big storm. Social distancing is hard if you live 10 to a shack, share water supply and live centimetres from your neighbour, imagine you are now evacuated with 500,000 others.
And we are soon approaching hurricane season, that will affect Caribbean and maybe parts of US.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Coronavirus: Hydroxychloroquine trial begins in the UK

A trial to see whether two anti-malarial drugs could prevent Covid-19 has begun in Brighton and Oxford.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52737169

Donald Trump drug to be tested on NHS staff with hopes of preventing coronavirus
Study involving at least 20 NHS hospitals aims to establish whether anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine can fend off virus

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...g-coronavirus/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Middlesbrough is one of the ten areas apparently for contact tracing to be tested.


This should be fun....