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vincerooney 17-10-2014 08:37
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35735842)
The 3pm blackout thing has been tested through the European Courts. We are one of a hand full of countries which operates it. There is no evidence to suggest it impacts on attendances in any of the countries which don't.
Absolutely this is the thing. But yet again it's been in place for 22 odd years and the uk is firmly stuck in the past as I said yesterday. Unable to comprehend moving on.

vincerooney 17-10-2014 13:21
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735856)
Absolutely this is the thing. But yet again it's been in place for 22 odd years and the uk is firmly stuck in the past as I said yesterday. Unable to comprehend moving on.
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?

Mad Max 17-10-2014 13:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735910)
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?

That isn't football! :D

vincerooney 17-10-2014 14:33
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 35735911)
That isn't football! :D
haha those teams may disagree! but what is the definition of "football" then? spanish football is a no no but indian football is okay? how far east can we go before it becomes a no no? ukraine? russia? china? is there a border to the 2.45-5.15 block on football? an iron curtain so to speak? who makes the decision? quite a fascinating thing to find out!

1andrew1 17-10-2014 14:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735910)
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?
Not in the UK though? It's showing a film then isn't it? http://uk.startv.com/stargold/schedule (click to 2014-10-18)

vincerooney 17-10-2014 15:13
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35735922)
Not in the UK though? It's showing a film then isn't it? http://uk.startv.com/stargold/schedule (click to 2014-10-18)
ah. live football on tv states


Man City v Tottenham Hotspur

Premier League

12:45

BT Sport 1 / BT Sport 1 HD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ross County v Celtic

Scottish Premiership

12:45

Sky Sports 3 / Sky Sports 3 HD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mumbai City v Pune City

Indian Super League

14:30

Star Gold

Mad Max 17-10-2014 16:04
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735918)
haha those teams may disagree! but what is the definition of "football" then? spanish football is a no no but indian football is okay? how far east can we go before it becomes a no no? ukraine? russia? china? is there a border to the 2.45-5.15 block on football? an iron curtain so to speak? who makes the decision? quite a fascinating thing to find out!

You can watch live games in some pubs that show them with 3pm kick off's, they are mainly broadcast from Arabic countries.

harry_hitch 18-10-2014 11:11
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35735842)
The 3pm blackout thing has been tested through the European Courts. We are one of a hand full of countries which operates it. There is no evidence to suggest it impacts on attendances in any of the countries which don't.
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.

vincerooney 18-10-2014 14:26
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35736076)
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.
We have too many professional clubs though. If they can't sustain themselves with their fan base and so rip off their fans with ticket prices to barely stay afloat they shouldn't be professional

I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering. Instead we continue to prop up small clubs with their tiny fan base and dreadful facilities and then wonder why grassroots football isn't producing good players

It's not nice but it's evolution. The strong survive. The weak clubs with a tiny fan base should simply close or become amateur. Instead we insist "nooooo but they've ALWAYS been here"

As a country we are stuck in the past. As a country we'll never develop good young players as they're stuck running around a muddy park field. Let the strong survive. Let the weak who can't survive fold. Let's introduce b teams with great facilities and let the youth get their experience and training. Let's progress for once

andy_m 19-10-2014 04:21
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35736076)
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.

harry_hitch 19-10-2014 11:19
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736203)
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.
That, sir, is a very valid point. That thought never entered my mind, I had it my head the only games that would made available would be PL games.

A good point, well made. I doth my proverbial cap to you, and leave this conversation with my tail firmly between my legs. :).

telegramsam 19-10-2014 12:18
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35736119)
We have too many professional clubs though. If they can't sustain themselves with their fan base and so rip off their fans with ticket prices to barely stay afloat they shouldn't be professional

I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering. Instead we continue to prop up small clubs with their tiny fan base and dreadful facilities and then wonder why grassroots football isn't producing good players

It's not nice but it's evolution. The strong survive. The weak clubs with a tiny fan base should simply close or become amateur. Instead we insist "nooooo but they've ALWAYS been here"

As a country we are stuck in the past. As a country we'll never develop good young players as they're stuck running around a muddy park field. Let the strong survive. Let the weak who can't survive fold. Let's introduce b teams with great facilities and let the youth get their experience and training. Let's progress for once
Sorry I disagree with you regarding stopping `propping up` the smaller clubs. I believe the richer clubs should be helping the lower league teams financially. In days gone by the lower league clubs survived by selling their better players to the bigger clubs but that doesn`t happen these days because the Premier league clubs prefer to buy big name foreign players. Yes the lower league clubs should stop ripping off their fans at the turnstile but then again don`t the Premier league clubs too?

1andrew1 19-10-2014 14:13
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736203)
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.
I'm afraid I'm going to risk unpopularity and disagree!

I think it's clear that all existing research must indicate that 3pm Premier League matches on TV would impact lower league attendances. It's pretty safe to conclude that if the Premier League could televise 3pm matches by proving no impact on the lower leagues then they would do so. The Premier League is very powerful and it is rare for them not to get their way. If they were sitting on a report that could earn them lots more money then why would they not use it?
Q. Please explain why the Premier League would not take up the chance to screen 3pm matches and get extra money for its clubs if it could do so by simply commissioning market research?

The cost of broadcasting matches is not the transmission costs but the costs of filming.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Re the Premier League Auction Process. I came across this great post on another site and heartily recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...postcount=5327

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35736119)
I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering.
Without sounding pedantic, that figure's clearly not true if we're talking about people. England has a population of 53m. Add in Wales gives a total population of 56m. Germany's population is 81m. So Germany is 45% larger than England & Wales, not six times. But still far larger and would still support your argument.

andy_m 19-10-2014 22:43
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
But every match is already filmed. All of the Premier League matches are available somewhere in the world live, and every League game has highlights at the very least shown. What's changed since the 3pm blackout was introduced since, what?, the 60's, at the request of lower league chairmen, is of course the transmission costs - all you need now is a decent internet connection.

The latest body of evidence I can find was presented to the European Court which ruled there is no impact. Not sure what else I can say on the subject.

Fwiw I think we'll see the blackout end at the next rights auction. Lower League clubs need to see it as an opportunity rather than a threat.

1andrew1 20-10-2014 12:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736374)
But every match is already filmed. All of the Premier League matches are available somewhere in the world live, and every League game has highlights at the very least shown. What's changed since the 3pm blackout was introduced since, what?, the 60's, at the request of lower league chairmen, is of course the transmission costs - all you need now is a decent internet connection.

The latest body of evidence I can find was presented to the European Court which ruled there is no impact. Not sure what else I can say on the subject.

Fwiw I think we'll see the blackout end at the next rights auction. Lower League clubs need to see it as an opportunity rather than a threat.
I've had a look at the Wikipedia page and stand corrected - it seems that the Burnley chairman in the 60s managed to persuade everyone of the benefits of the 3pm blackout and it's remained there ever since. Wow, I would have expected some subsequent research and lobbying. Maybe this will occur still but I don't think the climate's right for change yet.


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