Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36162653)

While I firmly believe - and have repeatedly stated - that the ‘who’s to blame for what’ question is impossibly complex to answer given the causal link from one event to another, stretching back more than 150 years …

I absolutely reject your continued attempts to draw actual or moral equivalence between Israel and Hamas’ actions over the past fortnight. Sure there’s room to debate what degree of military response is warranted on Israel’s part, but that’s because they’re operating a uniformed army with a chain of command and a plan of action that quite obviously shows awareness of international legal obligations as well as intense political pressure from allies. Their response is considered and calibrated. Argue they got the balance wrong by all means, but suggestions that their actions amount to the equivalent of Hamas are profoundly un-serious.

Hamas, to the extent it had a plan, entered Israel with the intention of behaving in as barbaric a way as possible, to the greatest extent possible. Beheading, torture, rape, execution of parents in front of children; execution of children in front of parents.

The behaviour of Israel in Gaza this week *is*not*the*same* as the behaviour of Hamas in Israel last week. The fact that those killed in Gaza might not see it that way is, tragically, besides the point. There is simply no comparison between no-holds-barred barbarism and calculated military action.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36162657)

It’s this bit that actually makes it worse.

A nation state with all the resources it has to secure it’s borders and target Hamas and other terror groups chooses to displace over a million people, levelling huge swathes of Gaza, taking some of the poorest people in the world and destroying what little they have. Considered and calculated.

And, from the somewhat perverse viewpoints of some, Palestinians should be grateful for this work towards being “demographically neutralised”.

How people in Gaza feel - and how they are treated - is absolutely the point.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36162488)

The phrase ‘suck it up’ will deservedly haunt you on this forum for quite some time.


.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36162633)

So you're arguing for assassination by Israel in a foreign country. Might that set the wider conflagration off?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36162662)

OK, just to clear this up, it seems that the phrase which has proved controversial to some has different meanings (just like ‘jihad’ apparently).

My meaning was ‘learn from it’ and that’s exactly what all those who think it’s a great idea to vote for a terrorist organisation should ponder.

I did not mean that phrase as insulting, although I get why some did.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36162663)

No I'm not, going after them doesn't have to mean kill them, it means make their lives hard, get them deported, maybe find a way to jail them



Sanction the bank, there's a fair few oligarchs like Mikhail Friedman who'll testify how easy it is to turn off the financial taps



They didn't when Arafat died, they knew Fatah was corrupt just by looking at what cars they drove past in whilst the majority had nothing and were sitting in the dust the fancy cars threw up



They better have the appetite or else things will get ugly on the west bank soon enough and Israel aren't stupid they know Fatah had the same destruction of Israel type charter and now they don't, even going as far as legitimising Israels right to exist by recognising their right to govern in certain areas, if they're not supported hamas will take over just like they did in Gaza



Abbas isn't great, he's embezzling knew no bounds early in his tenure but he's been there a long time and that in itself is stability for an organisation in disarray, his and Fatahs big problem is he's 87, he can't have that long left, actually decay might have been a better word than disarray given how old most of the leadership is. A guy called Mahmud Aloul is heir apparent and it's doubtful he's up to it

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Oh well, suck it up

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36162662)

OK, just to clear this up, it seems that the phrase which has proved controversial to some has different meanings (just like ‘jihad’ apparently).

My meaning was ‘learn from it’ and that’s exactly what all those who think it’s a great idea to vote for a terrorist organisation should ponder.

I did not mean that phrase as insulting, although I get why some did.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162674)

But what about the 76% of the current population of the Gaza Strip who are under 35, therefore couldn’t have voted for Hamas in 2006, do?

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162674)

btw, no one (except you, apparently) thinks "suck on that" means "learn from it" - the definition is



whilst "jihad", on the other hand

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162674)

But what about the 76% of the current population of the Gaza Strip who are under 35, therefore couldn’t have voted for Hamas in 2006, do?

btw, no one (except you, apparently) thinks "suck on that" means "learn from it" - the definition is

whilst "jihad", on the other hand

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162674)

But what about the 76% of the current population of the Gaza Strip who are under 35, therefore couldn’t have voted for Hamas in 2006, do?

<SNIP>

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36162692)

Those under 35 will also learn from the fact that people voted for a terrorist organisation and what that ultimately meant for their country.

I don’t think that was so difficult to understand.

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I don’t much care what you think about this, Hugh. I’m telling you what I meant.

And by the way, different definitions do exist for that phrase but I’m not trawling the dictionaries to make the point. I have better things to do with my time.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162714)

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=suck+on+that

hth…

Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36162781)

this is London

https://www.facebook.com/reel/294554...ibextid=kcDB8O