Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That's probably all large parties then except the Liberal Democrats who aren't exactly overflowing in popularity.
Boris seems to be choosing his moments to wind May up. On the eve of the conference at which May wants to discuss policy initiatives apart from Brexit, Boris is firmly stirring things up with a Sun interview emphasising his divergence from the agreed line on key aspects of leaving the EU.

1. Length of transition
TM "About two years"
BJ "Do I want the delay to go on longer than two years? Not a second more."

2. Adopting European Court rulings during transition period
TM concedes this may be inevitable
BJ Should not accept them

3. Single market access post EU
TM Open mind
BJ Britain should not pay for access to the single market after the transition period ends and that the UK should not shadow European rules to maintain access to the single market.

https://www.ft.com/content/cb12eb60-...c98a2?mhq5j=e5
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7975066.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/458033...xit-red-lines/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

...but there are threads elsewhere for Donald Trump and the EU referendum. ;)

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

Give it another year and Boris may change his mind again.

After all, a year ago:

The most interesting thing about that man is trying to work out his level of delusion versus his level of deceit. About the only things that trump (pun intended) either of those are his incompetence and his ambition.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I wonder who's behind this?...

https://order-order.com/2017/09/30/p...ries-effigies/

What nice people there are out there. Real democrats eh? Not at all nasty lefties. Nice to see it's not being treated as a hate crime though because it's clearly not full of hate or inciting violence is it... :rolleyes:

Maybe those sad morons behind it got their inspiration from McDonnell who thought this was acceptable behaviour for anyone other than a vile thug:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ion-row-as-ol/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yawn, yet again. Do you ever get 'déjà vu' ? I experience it regularly on here.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Still waiting btw.....

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Most people do not believe the Tories are on their side. My party has to change -
Phillip Lee MP (Conservative)

:gpoint:

I have never voted Conservative. I have voted mostly for the yellow team and once for the red team, 2015, voting for a local MP who had been enormously helpful to me. I most certainly wouldn't vote for them as things stand. Were they to get back to how they are supposed to be this would be subject to change.

Wow; a Tory who seems to be interested in the electorate as a whole and has realised that relying on the votes of the older generations isn't a good idea long-term. Perhaps if more of them were more preoccupied with that than winning control of the Conservative Party and/or engaging in demagoguery over the European Union and their interpretation of the referendum result they would have been able to win a majority over the most left-wing, polarising Labour Party in decades.

---------- Post added at 23:19 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

It's likely anyone who disagrees is on ignore. Echo chambers are the in thing at the moment, sadly. Either way no point in engaging, just a waste of time for all involved unless to debunk opinion with facts for the benefit of the wider audience.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

So demagogue #1 is in a little trouble there.

On 3: to access the SM and, indeed, in any trading arrangement, adherence to the rules of the market are required. No need to 'shadow' them all but you aren't going to be selling non-compliant goods and services that don't meet the standards so there is definitely going to have to be some element of 'shadowing'.

On 2: that isn't on offer. Any transition period mentioned so far is subject to union acquis. That means the four freedoms and the jurisdiction of the ECJ. There is no offer that involves the UK picking and choosing, there is no a la carte menu, only the set courses.

On 1: as mentioned previously this is the same guy who, last year, said the full Article 50 period wouldn't be necessary because they need us more than we need them. He will tell people whatever he thinks they want to hear, and pursue what is best for Boris. This is abundantly clear, and he ensures he reminds us whenever he opens his mouth.

He is, simply, stirring the excrement pot. He is doing everything he can to get fired it seems, so that he can be the Brexit martyr. What he's doing may play well with some of the Conservative Party, it neither plays well with the country as a whole or the European Union. For many it might well be a case of fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

EDIT: The worst part about it all is that for all that he's doing the PM is too weak to be able to fire him. He can directly challenge her on Brexit twice in a fortnight, in between reciting an incredibly inappropriate poem in a sacred Buddhist site in Myanmar and having to be reprimanded by the Ambassador.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqLIm0HOvuQ

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Making the rich richer.
that's a positive to the rich I suppose.

Dave got rid of himself. that's another.

They're destroying peoples will to live.

that's a negative though.

---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

I agree Mick.
they. I mean we. need to debate without having a go at each other.
we have to not show the Conservatives that we will fight each other just because they want us to to. for whatever reason they want us to do it for.

---------- Post added at 23:36 ---------- Previous post was at 23:33 ----------

Well said. spot on.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

[QUOTE=Mr K;35918526]Yawn, yet again. Do you ever get 'déjà vu' ? I experience it regularly on here.

---------- Post added at 22:23 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------



Easy Mr K, it's a tough job for a caped crusader exposing all those leftie lying hypocrites and simultaneously having to find time to ignore peoples pertinent arguments .

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Those knives are sharpening again this morning for Theresa as with friends like that who needs enemies...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-tories-knives

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It's feeling a bit unfair the amount of piling on people are doing to Theresa May. Every day seems to bring new revelations someone is leaking to damage her ahead of her conference speech.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Like Gaius Julius Caesar they are plotting around her just waiting for their moment to stick their knives in her back and end it all so that they can elect a new leader for the Conservative party.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The policies they seem to have revealed today are ridiculous. 'Freezing' student loans at £9000 is not going to appease those who think it's too high, instead of a radical house building program they're going to extend help to buy which will only make houses more expensive.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Staggering IMO as when are they going to realise that there is a chronic shortage of housing in the UK not seen since the Second World War.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I'm wondering where they get their ideas from these days.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I think this does show how out of touch the Tories are at the moment. Freezing student loans is a bit of a joke when they should never have been at the level they are now.

Also, what they don't discuss is the interest rate at which they are charging students:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...flation-brexit

They have basically lost the young vote as I see it.

They encourage the young to go to University, make them pay a price totally unrelated to delivery cost that is controlled by what is, in effect, a cartel. Then when they graduate, they then face the realistic prospect of a minimum wage job together with a massive personal debt going up at an unreasonable interest rate.

Oh, did I forget the bit where they cannot afford to get on the housing ladder like we were able to do ..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I agree with nearly all of your post, except the bit about funding.

Whilst 9k is more than delivery cost of some Arts degrees, it does not go anyway near covering the cost of the STE part of the STEM courses, and does not take into consideration the ongoing costs of maintaining and enhancing University infrastructure (buildings, faculty resources, IT, etc.).

In the past (before fees came in) these costs were mostly covered by one-off tranches from Central Government - all these now needs to be met by student fees (or bonds raised against the future income from Student Fees). Also, Universities pays VAT on most of the goods and services they receive, but can only recover a small percentage of VAT, via partial exemption recovery rules, which puts a 20% loading on most purchases.