Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The EU set out at the start of the negotiations what was required of the UK if it wanted a certain level of access so it's four years too late for people to start whingeing that these do not match the dreams they were sold by Vote Leave and Leave EU. We all need to move on and accept the new reality.

The deal with Canada is more than just intellectual property rights, as my extract demonstrates and I think you accept this now so our views are now not so far apart. It also shows that you and I agree that the UK would need to build on the enhanced playing field with firmer support due to the UK's EU proximity and size. That's all part of the gravity of trade which I have tried to explain to people but never seems to sink in before they start talking up Mexico, India etc.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I can't remember being sold any dreams :shrug:

I do remember some EU people trying to sell me some though :D

;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'd get your memory checked then... there was dream selling from both camps

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I wasn't swayed by the offers, didn't buy any :p:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

All i remember was being told that vote leave didn't stand a chance of winning,someone got that wrong.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Agreed although looking at the plans for Kent, Project Reality is resembling Project Fear a little too closely for my liking!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

oh . . what's happening in Kent then . . .. more migrants? :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Government buys Ashford 'Brexit lorry park' site

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53427262

Hope this helps... :)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The Farage Garage with lots of lorries parked up with enhanced access to people smugglers.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Bit of a waste isn't it? Considering many think we'll have no trade anyway :p:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It's just somewhere for the four horsemen of the apocalypse to rest their horses :)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No one’s ever said that - they’ve said it will more expensive and involve more red tape and delays...

You’re doing a "Donald" - saying "many think" or "many say" without providing any evidence of who the many are or what they actually said... ;)

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Farage, Cummings, Gove, and Banks?

Seems legit... :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Yea but Donald got the worlds top job on the back of it;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

There is no accounting for taste l suppose..;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not really cake and eat it. We left the EU and they offered us a priced-up Smörgåsbord to choose from. We're the third party now so can't expect to have the benefits of the single market without paying for it. Anything else reeks of pure entitlement.

And no, they're not really punishing us. They're protecting the Single Market which is everything to the EU. Even German car manufacturers are prepared to see the UK suffer adverse economic consequences if it keeps the Single Market intact. I really don't get this playing-the-victim stance. We're a 65-milion-person country so of course bigger blocs like the EU, US and China will try and boss us around. This was all known before the referendum. These complaints sound increasingly more and more like unconscious buyers' remorse.

But let's see how the negotiations go. I believe David Frost had a bit of a wake-up call when business recently convinced him they were serious about the bad effects of no-deal, and the negative impacts of even the best Brexit deal. BoJo's heart is not really in it, he wants an easy life with his new family and Brexit was just about handing him the keys to No. 10. And Cummings has moved onto his dream of using British tax-payers' money to compete with Eton Musk and Amazon through OneWeb.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

My wish is that I come across as explaining the situation. I've said many times that I hope we get the best deal possible. As a smaller country, we sometimes have to be pragmatic, as we've seen with us yielding to US pressure on Huawei.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I suppose we will be losing our G7 membership because we are such a small country then.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I’m sure you know that’s not how it works, as we were a founding member...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

2. In all deals where there is a junior party, one party will potentially cave in. We saw that with BoJo and the withdrawal agrement where he caved into the EU although managed to fool quite a few people until the penny dropped.

The UK and Japan are currently set to sign a deal which Liz Truss is getting awfully excited about. However, Japan has made clear that it cannot be as ambitious as the one signed with the EU as the UK is a far smaller market. I call that one party in the negotiations having more power in strictly neutral language. You might prefer the use of more emotive language like bullying which is your choice.

3. I've explained to you why the EU has its red lines. It doesn't mean that I wish it didn't but it's only what was called Project Fear or Easiest Trade Deal Ever depending on who you chose to believe at the time.

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:52 ----------

Exactly. Today's learning is that not everyone knows the difference between small and smaller.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Japan can pee off too, do we actually buy anything useful from them that nobody else can supply?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The stuff we won’t be able to get from China in Cold War 2. PlayStation 5.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Oh wow so it doesn't matter how our economy is doing (covid considered) we are still a member?

---------- Post added at 01:17 ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 ----------

As you should know by now, link please.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

A UK Japan Economic Partnership Agreement is an interesting one for two reasons;

This is really a three way deal between the UK, Japan and the EU. The supply chains for Japanese companies based in the UK (Nissan and Honda re the elephants on the room here) are predominantly EU based. The value and success of a UK-Japan agreement is very dependent on the success of a UK-EU agreement.

The second issue is the EU-Japan agreement has 'Most Favoured Nation' clauses which state that any concessions offered to a third country, the UK in this case, must also automatically be offered to the EU. The best possible deal the UK can get from Japan would match what the EU can get (whether the EU would necessarily accept/implement a MFN concession is a different thing of course)

This article explains this well - https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/202...mental-issues/

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm surprised you've not come across this in your research already.
Please Google "UK and Japan rush to secure post-Brexit trade deal" and you will see the FT article concerned.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I've not bothered with either of the above links . . . if I did, I'd only end up counting all of the 'if, maybe, could, possibly, upto, may, subject to' etc etc that are sure to be in there ;)

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Why should I do research for you and end up at a paywall?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I can't see any sensible person agreeing to that!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Andrew is, was, and always will be a remainer. I accept that and don't hold it against him. Just as I hope he dosen't hold the fact that we are leavers against us.

All his post are from a remainers narrative so what do you expect? I don't hold it against him.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If you follow my instructions, you won't encounter a paywall. They're not for my benefit as I've already read the article.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

So I now have to follow your instructions! Dream on!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

You asked me how to get the article and I responded. Your previous enthusiasm for the article seems to have wilted with the knowledge that multiple key strokes are required.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Show me and everyone else where I asked you how to get the article.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I'm used to doing deals both in a big business and as a smaller or junior one. As a larger business, you can get a great deal and compel the other party to accept your TsandCs. As a smaller party, you're a bit of a deal-taker. I don't apply emotive language to describe the balance of power, I just get on and strike the best deal I can being aware of deadlines for sales reps' targets, competitors' offerings and taking my time to get the best possible deal so I never get bounced into a bad deal.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

There is so much latitude on "swearing" that it is difficult to know when the words will be deleted. In this case, plenty of synonyms are allowed and I wouldn't intentionally wish to invoke the filter.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Exactly, and the UK is not going to be bounced into accepting a bad deal either.

Without a 'no tariffs' deal, there will be major economic disadvantages for certain EU industries such as car manufacturing because tariffs will put up the price of exported goods to this country, rendering them less competitive. The EU does not hold all the cards, not by a long chalk.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The asterisks in place of the offending word shows the filter has been applied - you can go back into your post to remove those words, or replace with words that do not activate the "swear filter".

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Ah it’s been a while since we had the German car manufacturers line.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Worse-case scenario, the EU can carry on trading with its 500m-person market and the millions more via the largest number free trade deals with most of the developed world.
We can continue with our market of 65m people and wonder why other countries are more prosperous than us.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It really is pathetic to see, as the forecast negative consequences of Brexit start to materialise, we have the die-hards bleating about being "bullied". It is as if they are in the playground again and they are running to teacher complaining "Miss, Miss, the big boys are bullying me again".

Of course, that is the only recourse they have left and that is to try and save face. Pretend that they are a victim when, ironically, all the things they are complaining about are on them. They just need to man up and own them.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Invest more energy in solving it and less in looking for excuses and scapegoats.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Don’t forget wine, champagne and blessed are the cheesemakers.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Thank you Andrew. Your answer is succinct and to the point. Sort of obvious really.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

didn't you like rest of the leavers say the lie that uk hold all the cards OB

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Amusing from someone who, in the last few pages of this thread, posted the phrases "bullying", "you come across as a justifier/apologist for the EU", "bossing us around", "astounded that someone should be so apologetic", "cake and eat it", "willy-waving’, etc... ;)

Reflection doesn’t always have to involve a mirror, you know... :D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Leavers created this situation and should be capable of getting us out from it. They knew what they were voing for and hence had a solution. Hopefully, that solution was more constructive than just blaming the other side!

Remainers devising solutions won't cut the mustard. They will end up with similar smears as those attached to Theresa May's government.

I would suggest you bend Redwood's ear and remind him what he and his colleagues promised you at the time of the referendum. However, I understand that he is currently embroiled in a big NIMBY dispute with Wokingham Borough Council which says "We're outraged and disgusted at these government proposals which would see the amount of new housing more than double across the Wokingham Borough to 1,635 per year."

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Noted: That pack of cards has gone from being held totally by the UK to "not being totally held by the EU".

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Let's remind ourselves what these con artists said at the time shall we?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eeh3eVrU...jpg&name=small

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Not really as he's the person to take up your buyer's remorse with. And that question on its own is impossible to answer. Leavers need to own a situation of their creation.

But pleading with a third country to try and prevent migrants coming to the UK whilst simultaneously trying to withdraw that country's fishing rights is not the brightest of ideas.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I've answered that it's impossible to answer. And it's not up to Remainers to bail you out as their solutions will not be seen as independent.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

FFS. It happened it’s over. Stop whinging.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Err... What's changed? Deal or no deal it is our choice. We hold the cards to our future wherever that may lead us. We will be a Sovereign nation who decides its own future.

We will deal with others on those terms. Chose the path we want affirms that.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

It might appear that way at a cursory glnce. But it was appropriate in this context as it was citing evidence that the holding-all-the-cards metaphor had originally been ascribed to the UK. We're now hearing that the EU "doesn't hold all the cards".

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nothing in any of those quotes means anything. They were not promises or guarantees. They were opinion.

Furthermore they may yet be accurate, they may be wrong.,.........we’ll find out in due course.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Truth hurts doesn't it?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

. . . and now we go over to our Current Affairs reporter from Cable Forum.

Well it's another day of madness here, the usual gangs have been busily sniping at each other from the cover of their keyboards, and exchanging sly winks and slaps on the back for any minor points scored.
There was a moment earlier in the session when a senior board member called for clarification on some of the language used, but all in all it's just been the same arguments on the same merry go round. The scores are still tied at 168 each, maybe tomorrow will see a breakthrough.

Back to the studio for the weather . .

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I reiterate that that is an impossible question as no one outside the negotiating team has sufficient information to know what the UK's true red lines and objectives are.

My objectives, as you know are to put the economy first as a strong economy enables services like our armed forces and nursing homes to be properly funded and it's beneficial for people's health and in keeping crime rates low. This necessitates as close a deal with the EU as possible so we should elect for a deal like the EFTA countries have without the Schengen area. I'm happy to sacrifice notional elements of sovereignty to join NATO, to join the United Nations, to join EFTA and to join Five Eyes.

---------- Post added at 00:28 ---------- Previous post was at 00:27 ----------

:D:D:D

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Of the three highlighted there is no notional sovereignty involved. We not only joined each one as a sovereign nation but helped set them up. Each of which we can if we wish (I wouldn't want to) withdraw from without penalty.

NATO is a common defence originally against Soviet Russia and also includes the US and Canada. It could do nothing about the Russian annexation of part of the Ukraine as they weren't a member state.

The UN, again we are a founding member and along with the others have the power of veto over whatever any other country would like to do along with China, France, Russia, and the United States. So anyhing that may impinge on our sovereignty could just be vetoed.

5 Eyes is is an intelligence alliance that has nothing to do with the rest of Europe it is made up of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States.

So no notional surrender or otherwise of sovereignty there. They are agreements that can be ended at any time with no penalty, not that I would wish it.

EFTA was started by the 7 nations that the EEC (then) did not accept into their agreement back in 1960 including the UK (gotta love Charles de Gaul), it now consists only of 4. However I digress.

1960 The European Free Trade Association (EFTA) is founded by Austria, Denmark, Norway, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, to promote closer economic cooperation and free trade in Europe..

1961 Finland becomes an associate member of EFTA. The EFTA Consultative Committee is established (representatives of trade unions and employers' organisations).

1966 Full free trade in industrial products is achieved between the EFTA States.

1970 Iceland becomes a member of EFTA.

Then it starts going pear shaped

1972 Denmark and the United Kingdom leave EFTA to join the European Economic Community (EEC). The remaining EFTA States sign bilateral free trade agreements (FTAs) with the EEC during the 1970s.

1977 The EFTA Parliamentary Committee is established. Tariffs on industrial goods in trade are eliminated between the EEC and the EFTA States.

1979 EFTA's first FTA is signed with Spain.

1984 (here we go) The Luxembourg Declaration on broader cooperation between the EEC and EFTA is signed.

1985 Portugal leaves EFTA to become a member of the EEC. (why?).

1986 Finland becomes a full member of EFTA.

1989 Negotiations start on a European Economic Space, later to become the European Economic Area (EEA). An agreement on free trade in fish between the EFTA States is signed. (oh look, FISH!)

1991 Liechtenstein becomes a member of EFTA. An FTA is signed with Turkey, EFTA's oldest agreement still in force. A further 12 FTAs are signed in the 1990s, of which three are still in force (Israel, Morocco and the Palestinian Authority). The others, all of which are with Central and Eastern European countries, lapse when those countries join the European Union (EU). (Oh bugger!)

1992 The Agreement on the European Economic Area is signed in Oporto, Portugal. Switzerland rejects participation in the EEA by referendum.


1994 The EEA Agreement enters into force between the EU and five EFTA States. An EEA Financial Mechanism for the reduction of economic and social disparities in the EEA is established for the period 1994 to 1998. (EFTA no longer an independant trading area).

1995 Austria, Finland and Sweden leave EFTA to join the EU. Liechtenstein becomes a full participant in the EEA Agreement together with Iceland and Norway. (EFTA's shrinking).

2001 The updated EFTA Convention is signed in Vaduz, Liechtenstein, entering into force a year later. (There's only a few countries left).

There's a few thing inbetween relating to the EEA but.

2010 Iceland begins accessions negotiations with the EU. The EEA EFTA Forum of Elected Representatives of Local and Regional Authorities is established.

And that is the effective end of EFTA as an independant trade alliance.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Post contents deleted by Seph.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:04 ----------

If you're happy to give up notional sovereignty as you've described (actually we've given up next to nothing in sovereignty terms by being members of those associations), you should be able to answer the simple question I've posed in relation to the EU. I'll put it another way.

Which of these concessions should we make to the EU in order to achieve the best possible economic outcome:

1. ECJ jurisdiction over the trade deal?
2. Level playing field that goes beyond Canada, Japan ?
3. Sovereignty over UK territorial waters including fishing rights?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Link provided (under ”Fair Use” policy)

https://www.efta.int/About-EFTA/EFTA-through-years-747

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

No idea what you’re referring to.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I've explained how participation in Five Eyes (Huawei anyone?), NATO (British army reporting into US superiors and vice versa) impact on our sovereignty. Sovereignty is not a binary situation as has been demonstrated across the EU since the Covid outbreak but I appreciate that some have bought into this perception and uncloaking it is hard.

And no, agreeing to the entry rules are not concessions Seph, that's a highly defeatist way of framing the argument.

We should obviously try and negotiate these in our favour as much as possible. Of the above criteria, the one which I would aim to negotiate hardest on is No. 1. Only a socialist or a pessimist that thinks we can only survive as a low cost manufacturer (a la the recent sweatshop issues in Leicester) would have a genuine issue with No. 2 and we need to be careful with No. 3 as the fish we catch is largely sold to the EU, it's typically not species consumed in the UK.
I hope this helps.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Can I respectfully point out that the vast majority of Brexiteers do not want to give ground.

You, however, think that we should, so Seph's question to you is a reasonable one. What ground do you think we should give?

---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

I'm so glad that you are not leading these negotiations!

:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The withdrawal agreement with the EU ends 31/12/2020. You only have to look at the advertising posters from 2016 to realise that immigration was a big issue. That includes support from France on immigration. We already know that Brexit will have negative economic impacts. However, if it increases immigration then it will appear to be an abject failure.

If by IPR you mean intellectual property rights, the link I supplied was indeed around a broader playing field.

It appears everyone has been busy in my absence and I'm looking forward to reading it all. Thank you all for your contributions to the debate.

Ultimately, your arguments boil down to what I believe is a flawed definition of sovereignty. If you're a member of the United Nations then you're a sovereign nation.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

And if you think in today’s global interconnected world, that any country is not dependent or influenced by any other country, I’ve got a bridge you might want to buy... :D

For example Priti Patel has just said we are dependent on the French to help us return migrants, as our "sovereignty" in this matter depends on their support...

Sovereignty 2016 - We demand the right to control our borders!!

Sovereignty 2020: Why aren’t the bloody French controlling our borders?!

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I’m pretty sure most people understand the difference between submission via treaty to supranational jurisdiction over our affairs, and quid-pro-quo negotiations between states of the sort that have been going on for centuries.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The ECJ can only rule over areas where EU directives and regulations are in force so, if we want to have access to EU (and some non-EU) agencies, there is a case for 'sucking it up' and taking ECJ jurisdiction to get access.

My wish list would include;

EASA - aviation regulation including safety and the European Common Aviation Area
ECHA - chemical regulation and safety including REACH (huge impact to my business right now!)
EMA - European Medicines Agency
EUIPO - intellectual property
EFSA - food safety
EMSA - maritime safety
ECDC - disease control and epidemiology

Leaving these agencies due to ECJ jurisdiction in a quest for sovereignty seems to be the aim. It's each persons own value judgement to what cost is worth the degree of sovereignty we will gain.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Why, for the love of god, would we leave the EU and then still want to be subject to the rulings of the ECJ? We will not be a member of the EU anymore.

Does the ECJ run its sticky fingers over the dealings with Canada, Japan, Russia? . . . in fact any Country that is not part of the EU.

Are you trying to say that, whether we are in or out, any dealings we have with any EU Country have to be ratified and 'passed' by a court consisting of EU members, dealing with EU members, which presides over ensuring one EU member isn't being 'ripped off' by another EU member?

If that's the case, what is the equivalent UK court that ensures this Country isn't overwhelmed by cheap foreign imports that decimate our own manufacturing & industry . . . oh hang on, we're 40 years too late :mad:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Nothing to do with 'wanting' to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, it's about being members of organisations that make business simpler and more efficient. If being members of those organisations includes the ECJ being the final arbitrator, then fine.

Sovereignty is all well and good but feeling good doesn't put shoes on my kids feet...

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

But wouldn't there be some 'self interest' in that arbitration, with the ECJ being biased towards its own membership? How would/could you know you got a fair hearing?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

The French aren't controlling their own borders. They are in France illegally.



Eg If there are unaccompanied minors, then the responsibility for them lies with the French, or any of the multitude of other countries they've supposedly passed through unaccompanied. Just as any other unaccompanied minor, who is found on the streets, is taken into care in that country. Rather perverse that the only country deemed responsible for their care is the UK. Also perverse that the European Convention on Human Rights hasn't come down heavily on France and all the other countries.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Could it possibly be because they don't want them? :naughty:

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

If the return is good, then I would be OK with it. Cost-benefit analysis really.

What elements of EU law are not covered by the ECJ in the case of the Canada and Japan deals?

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20
 

I, on the other hand, would be very happy if you were leading the British side of these negotiations. ;)

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------

Life's unfair, Seph, you have to get over it. :D

In this instance, I imagine two things determine this:
- There's very little time left to strike a deal. Adopting an existing mechanism is easier than devising a new one.
- Scale of trade. This is far more significant between the UK and EU than between the EU and Canada or Japan. Hence more disputes are likely. Having an existing infrastructure in place can move more rapidly than having to rope in 15 judges from elsewhere.

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20