Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

Is this post a mistake? There is no explanation on why anyone should click on this link ..

Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

Interesting video.

Re: Brexit
 

No. That is taking this in completely the wrong direction.

We will most probably land up with an Article 24 situation, described as a 'managed Brexit'. That should persuade the renegade Tories who are concerned with disruption. The DUP will like that, too, because there would be no backstop involved.

Re: Brexit
 

Ah yes, the Robin Tilbrook case that argues that we have already "legally" left the EU. Been aware of this case for some time. Using the same legal argument that Gina Miller made regarding "Legal Powers", that the PM did not have the power to extend Article 50, without an Act of Parliament.

A former Appeals Judge, Sir Richard Aikens has said Mrs May's Article 50 extension was “highly unsatisfactory” and “arguably illegal”.

This would put the Brexit Cat amongst the Remainer Pigeons, if his case holds weight.

It clearly has Westminster spooked, if it's hit the House of Commons Library briefing papers.

Re: Brexit
 

I just don't see our bent system of justice coming down on the side of brexit if it's proved we have legally left the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Farage, BoJo know that Tillbrook's case is flawed. Inclusion in papers filed for the House of Commons Library is for historical completeness.
Some more information on the case. https://endthechaos.co.uk/blog/the-t...egal-argument/

Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

I thought the mods asked for links to be posted with comments. Good to know this request is now relaxed ..

Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

You misunderstand the rule, so no it isn’t relaxed. The link is to YouTube. I have told you before, if you have a site query, PM a team member. Do not post off-topic again and that includes replying to this.

Re: Brexit
 

Good news is that if you feel this strongly about our justice system, you still have an opportunity to exercise your freedom of movement benefits and see if the grass is greener. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

You are not a legal expert, so don’t have the qualification to say if it’s flawed.

Re: Brexit
 

You don't need a legal qualification to sniff out the BS in this case, Mick. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

I trust the word of a former appeals judge over your “Arm chair” expertise any day. And as for BS-There has been plenty of whiffs of it from your side since 2016. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Talk about straw clutching. This takes it to a new level.

I was researching this Robin Tilbrook character: he is the founder of a sad and slightly sinister party called the English Democrats.

Just looks a nobody who want his time in the sun jumping on the the Brexit Betrayal narrative.

Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

I will offer this one as an alternative.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Ensuring the process of law has been followed is not straw clutching, it's a democratic right[in this country].:)

Re: Brexit
 

Funny isn’t it, trying to attack the character all the time because they believe in democracy, where you are trying to abuse it.

Because he feels, in his own expertise, he is a solicitor that Theresa May had broken the law. A former appeals judge, feels the same way and his own Barrister says same. All probably have a law degree, whereas, you don’t, so back to the usual, cannot offer anything with substance, but go down the character assassination discourse.

He may well lose the case, I haven’t said either way if he’s right in what he says, I’m no legal scholar, but I trust his words and that of his legal team over yours, any day.

Re: Brexit
 

I am waiting in anticipation for the first link to a Brexit tweet from a Love Island contestant.

I'm pretty sure the people on that show - celebrities no less - have some interesting and valuable information about staying/leaving that they could share with the rest of us.

*disclaimer: I don't watch that crap, but the wife and daughter do. They seemingly have no interest in Brexit and are more concerned with whether Primark will stay open and who's recently posted on their facebook page.
Neither of them ever bother voting, not even when Ant & Dec plead with them to do so ;)

I am wondering if my family are unique in this respect, or if it's widespread :D

Re: Brexit
 

No, it's widespread. However people that don't vote will have no one to blame but themselves.

They could make voting easier i.e at the weekend like any normal country, online voting etc. However I have a feeling those in power don't want to increase turnout,...

Re: Brexit
 

Just watched Andrew marr interview Gove ,what an oily little weasel of a creep this man is ,if he becomes PM we will never get out of the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Gove like Johnson will do whatever they have to do to get their grubby teacherous hands on the levers of power.

Re: Brexit
 

When marr got into him about snorting coke he said errr ummm err quite a lot.

Re: Brexit
 

Not surprising as he has previous history.

Re: Brexit
 

We agree on something ;) However I think you'll find all the others, bar maybe Rory Stewart, are promising the impossible...

I see Bozzas campaign aren't letting him on TV on account of how people might remember what a buffoon and idiot he is....

Re: Brexit
 

They won't elect Rory Stewart as leader you can be guarenteed of that.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes he's half sensible, so no chance !

Re: Brexit
 

He's a weasel.

Re: Brexit
 

No he's more of a stoat.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/06/1.jpg

Re: Brexit
 

What deal is that? There is NO ongoing deal on offer from the EU. Unless you count the WA as an underhand, backdoor indefinite deal.



Not sure how continued freedom of movement, submitting to EU rules and the ECJ, no outside trade deals allowed, could be classed as a good deal. The only thing the EU "gave up" was our money, and they're still going to get a huge chunk of it.

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

Surely voting has to be a carefully considered activity and purposefully done. Not something that is done casually and thought to have no big impact, such as voting for Love Island or X factor etc.

Re: Brexit
 

Qualifications required to be the new leader of the Conservative party.;)

1/ A congenital liar
2/ Disloyal
3/ Untrustworthy and irresponsible
4/ Take drugs
5/ Incompetent
6/ Egoistic

Re: Brexit
 

Ah, so that's why there's lots of candidates ! :D

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think Theresa May by any stretch of imagination came back with what you optimistically predicted to be a great deal. She came back with a poorly-negotiated Withdrawal Agreement which was flawed from the start when she activated Article 50 without a plan.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

I think the latter point more than compensates for his former. ;)

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

How does the screening work?
Are you a congenital liar? Please answer Yes or No :D

Re: Brexit
 

Is this versus the requirements to be Labour leader:

• A Racist Antisemitic, For the many, not the few, I mean Jew ?
• Rubbed shoulders with the IRA.
• Praised the current corrupted leader of Venezuela.
• Friends with Hamas and Hezbollah

Re: Brexit
 

l don't disagree with that either..

Re: Brexit
 

Wish for the country's sake there was a similar contest for Labour leader but I can't get excited as there isn't one. Corbyn seems possessed of a gift like Trump and BoJo to be resilient no matter what he says and does.

Re: Brexit
 

Just remember teflon Tony.;)

Re: Brexit
 

thanks for spoiling my Sunday afternoon :D ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Turn on the football and that might still ruin your afternoon.;)

Re: Brexit
 

As I said, she caved. And taking 'no deal' off the table was ridiculous.

Re: Brexit
 

She didn't just cave, she collapsed!!!

Re: Brexit
 

This thread seems to be steering off Brexit. The Tory leadership is not the topic, we have another topic on that open. Members need to stop cross posting between the two all the time.

Arthur, I deleted your profanity laden post, if you invoke the swear filter again, I will suspend your account. Yes, those words you tried to use are blocked and for good reason.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33707714 is where to go to discuss leadership issues.

Re: Brexit
 

I am not asking you to believe my words. He and his party speak for themselves. These are the substance you refer to. You, like many, are content to side yourself with people who, in more normal circumstances, I would like to think you would run a mile from. People like Robin Tilbrook, George Galloway, Claire Fox, etc.

The Wikipedia article I posted categorised the English Democrats, founded by said Robin Tilbrook, as:

Enough said ..

Re: Brexit....update 8th June Brexit Leave Case
 

I think I saw someone who watched and bought in to this video on Friday at Heathrow T5... This chap was not happy that there wasn't a UK only line at immigration and he would have to share with EU and EEA passport holders considering, in his opinion, we have left the EU already.

He was arguing with one of the 'here to help' t-shirt wearers first, then it looks like that persons supervisor and, by the time I got through the e-gates, a uniformed immigration official.

Re: Brexit
 

Where his political allegiances lie, bears no relevance to a matter of law, this is the issue. I couldn’t give a toss where he is, on the political scale, so no, not enough said, far from it.

Re: Brexit
 

UK will not be ready for a no-deal Brexit on 31 October - confidential cabinet note reveals.
https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tw...46093754298368
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/06/2.jpg

Re: Brexit
 

no surprise there then

Re: Brexit
 

Tough.

Re: Brexit
 

Presumably you're alright for medicines then or don't need any. Good for you !

Re: Brexit
 

This sob story has been going on since 2016.

Re: Brexit
 

Well there's been plenty of time to mitigate for it then :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Too many clinging on to the EU and living in the past,it's time to let go and embrace the future.

Re: Brexit
 

Hard to embrace the future when you can’t get even get hold of your medications...

Re: Brexit
 

I don't hold with emotional blackmail as a tactic it never works.

Re: Brexit
 

People not getting their meds = "emotional blackmail"?

Re: Brexit
 

I was under the impression that the UK had been preparing for the 'no deal' scenario for quite a while now?

or was that simply more hogwash & soundbites to make it appear something was being done :shrug: :dunce:


edit: and why is the Financial Times using such a large font :)

Re: Brexit
 

Nope still not working.

Re: Brexit
 

How long would any delays be? Less than at times of severe weather or trade union strikes.

Re: Brexit
 

As the note does not say stockpiles cannot be in place by 31st Oct it would be fair to say its a couple or 3 months old.

Re: Brexit
 

The article is from todays FT. I cannot see any journalist sitting on such information for a couple of months, just to break it now.

Re: Brexit
 

You will be ok then. That's all that matters isn't it? Stuff everyone else ..

Re: Brexit
 

Yeah, yeah. The article assumes that a 'no deal' Brexit warrants stockpiles of medicines and border checks. Two straight forward solutions to avoid that.

1. Agree with the EU that pending a trade deal, there will be no change to our existing trading arrangements.

2. Apply the Article 24 GATT protection period.

Re: Brexit
 

We could call it the transition period.

Re: Brexit
 

MPs have voted down Labour’s attempt to take over parliamentary business and present a bill to outlaw no-deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48613921

Re: Brexit
 

:rofl:

Re: Brexit
 

No deal, it is, then. What are you waiting for, Boris? Say it like it is!

Re: Brexit
 

So why on earth would everything be delayed by 3 months? How did we function before we joined EFTA, EEC etc?

Re: Brexit
 

I didn't say anything would be delayed.

Re: Brexit
 

There is no democratic mandate for No Deal. As the whole project was supposed to be about democracy, No Deal is off the menu.

Re: Brexit
 

Did I miss a point when “straight forward” was redefined to include unworkable? Similar to how literally achieved the additional definition “figuratively”.

Re: Brexit
 

Straw man argument.

We live in a Parliamentary democracy, as remainers never tire of telling us these days. The nature of our parliamentary democracy is that members of Parliament are representatives, not delegates or deputies, also as remainers never tire of telling us these days.

If parliament passes legislation that allows for No Deal -as it did in 2017 - and then declines to take control of business in order to repeal that legislation - as it did today - then the actions of our sovereign parliament have created a situation that has all the democratic mandate it requires.

Re: Brexit
 

What you say here is correct if that can all hold true til November.

Re: Brexit
 

No straw men here :) In the 2017 GE, more people voted for Parties with Anti-No Deal manifestos.

Glad to know that if Parliament reject a No Deal in the coming months, you will wholeheartedly approve.

Re: Brexit
 

"Agree with the EU" is not no deal.


Similarly, Article 24 requires an agreed plan from both parties. Agreed plan is not a no deal.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

So, we would be a vassal state then and the EU could keep us there indefinitely?

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------

Not the newspaper, but maybe the leaker could have held it back to the FT until today.

Re: Brexit
 

We didn’t have Just In Time supply chains...

Re: Brexit
 

So what? That is for manufacturing, not supply of medicines. Even so, you could easily factor in a longer delivery time.


Still not getting why anything would be completely delayed by 3 months.

Re: Brexit
 

Can you tell me what you propose manufacturers sell during this “longer delivery time”?

Re: Brexit
 

Medicines are manufactured in this country, using ingredients sourced elsewhere...

You may find this informative...

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-o...-brexit--64926

Quote:

Each month, approximately 82 million packs of medicine flow between the UK and the EU, according to a recent report from the Brexit Health Alliance, a coalition including the National Health Service (NHS) and various biomedical, research, patient, and public health organizations. Any post-Brexit hurdles to the free movement of goods could spell trouble for those supplies, potentially leading to temporary drug shortages. For example, medicinal insulin, used by millions of diabetes patients—including UK prime minister Theresa May—is not manufactured in the UK, nor is it easily stored, as it requires temperature-controlled conditions. The medicine is partly produced and packaged in the EU, and a disruption to the supply chain due to a no-deal Brexit “is one of the ways that patients could be severely disadvantaged,” Michael Rawlins, chair of the MHRA, told The Pharmaceutical Journal in July.

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

”sunlit uplands"?

Re: Brexit
 

edit: just seen Hughs post

Re: Brexit
 

Oooh, ooh, I can answer this as I work in the industry!

Over 60% of the cost of goods sold (COGS) of a drug is fixed costs of simply having a manufacturing facility. Those costs are there regardless of whether a company is making product or not.

Because of this, there is a massive drive towards 100% utilisation of any manufacturing facility as only making drugs makes you money. If you are running at over 90% capacity, you don't have much scope to scale up production without investment in larger facilities and this kind of thing runs on a multi-year cycle. Even just doubling up and buying a second lot of the same equipment would take 9-12 months to buy, install and qualify.

This of course just takes in to account the drug manufacturer themselves. The suppliers of raw materials and equipment will work on the same principle. They try and work and build facilities to match the scale of the demand from their customers, the pharma industry. Again, scaling up production isn't trivial. The company I work for has been investing in a second production facility for some raw materials. We are investing $700m in this and have taken 2 years to far and anticipate another 18 months for customers to accept that the product made on the new lines is the same as the old product.

Then of course, we have our suppliers and they have their suppliers and on it goes...

A well oiled industry works both using just in time manufacturing but also working towards 100% utilisation of their facility. Knowing what 100% is depends on good market knowledge but also a stable market. Sudden stockpiling in a market as large as the UK is hugely destabilising.

The last time I saw anything like this was during the risk of pandemic flu. During that time, we did a great deal of horse trading with our customers to get a much closer idea of their needs and what might need to be dropped if new flu therapies were needed in a hurry.

I have papers galore on this but they would kind of tell you who I work for...

Re: Brexit
 

To expand on what jon has posted above...

https://www.supplychaindive.com/news...ration/436496/ https://www.pharmalogisticsiq.com/re...-supply-chains

Re: Brexit
 

Yawn :zzz: - still peddling Fake News horror stories. You Remainers will never learn.

We voted to leave the corrupted EU-that was democracy. So leave it we must this October, but before then preferably.

Re: Brexit
 

What exactly is fake about a cabinet office memo? Nowt is the correct answer.

What are our chances of leaving the EU before or on 31 October 2019? Again, nowt is the correct answer.

How much of a monkey's does the PM-in-waiting BoJo care about ensuring Brexit happens? Yet again, nowt is the correct answer.

Re: Brexit
 

Still doesn't answer the simple questions of, how come it's supposed to manifest itself with a 3 month delay, and how do they cope with delays that must occur because of things like extreme bad weather.

Re: Brexit
 

I know the weather can be grim, but I doubt it causes disruption if more than a few days, not months.

Re: Brexit
 

Do anyone ever get deja vu ? ;)

Re: Brexit
 

I am not sure who your audience is here? The people who know what this means, already get it and the others, well, they do not want to know and more importantly, they do not care.

You can supply all the supporting evidence and documentation you can get your hands on, it will make no difference. We seem to be beyond a point where presenting an argued, fact-based & informed position can alter someone's position.

We are now in the Twilight Zone:

Re: Brexit
 

Bu bu but we only need another 57 years to prepare.............

Re: Brexit
 

It’s not about caring, cannot care about negative rubbish, created to install fear. It does not work with me. The way you carry on and on about baseless information, because that’s all it is, is tiresome ianch99. There is no reason information about negative crap put forward by Remainers because they think we cannot survive outside a corrupt organisation. We can and we will. That is what was voted for.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

There's a significant difference between survival and flourishing, Personally I'd rather see the country flourish rather than survive.

We may well survive exiting the EU, It may be the land of milk and honey., Or, it could be the equivalent or Bear Grylls climbing inside a camel and drinking his own urine.

You call out people for their baseless information when your comments are exactly the same but from the opposite side.

Re: Brexit
 

Ahh getting personal are we, comparing Brexiteers like they are bags of piss??

Also, my comments are not baseless. They’re counter arguments. And what I counter with is true. We voted to leave-fact.

[Last line removed due to mis-reading second paragraph]

Re: Brexit
 

I'm not insulting anyone at all, i suggest you go back and reread the post. i quite clearly say

a) it could be the land of milk and honey

b) the comment regarding climbing inside a camel and drinking as you eloquently put it 'piss' is leveled at the country surviving as a whole, it is not aimed at those wanting to leave the EU and is the direct opposite of my initial milk and honey comment.


How you equate that to insulting brexiteers i have no idea, however c'est la vie !!


You're comments are as baseless as anyone else's because whilst a majority did vote to leave the EU none of us, not you, not me, not tinky winky or the rest of the teletubbies, Uri Geller or the rest of the british public have a clue of what life will be like in this country in 5-10 years time.

Re: Brexit
 

And I have never put forward what a post-Brexit will be like and put it across as though it is a fact. I’ve said we must leave and see for ourselves because I do not believe the bullshit spouted by Remainers.

For some reason they want to remain in union that openly mocks us, cripples us, and boasted about turning the UK in to a EU Colony, you Remainers want to go stay in this disgusting and disgraceful bloc, with a smaller trading window compared to rest of the world (which is much bigger)

No one knows what it’s going to be like, they’re just guesses, but guesses from poor judgement, based on negativity. But we vote to leave. Democracy must be fulfilled, we must get the hell out.

Re: Brexit
 

Link


Link
Still absolutely nowhere near 3 months.


Remember the delays work in both directions, and that will include returning lorries. Are the EU going to be happy with adding 2 days until they get their lorries back after delivering to the UK?


So much for the "single market".

Re: Brexit
 

I want to remain in a union because it's my belief that it has provided a significant benefit to the UK. I believe that the benefits we gain outweigh the costs/restrictions that are imposed on all nations. Benefits that we may or may not have received had we not been part of it.

Whilst the EU is far from perfect every global system of government contains corruption. so it's kind of moot point.

IF you or any of the people who voted to leave can provide any concrete evidence of how the country will be in a better position economically in the next 5/10/20 years time I'll honestly change my stance. IF any on the people who voted leave can provide any concrete evidence of how this country wont be dictated to on trade deals by the major global economies again I'll change my stance.

However, from what i've seen (and as always i stand to be corrected) the forecasts from even the most ardent leavers show that there will be a significant and prolonged economic downturn for the country as a whole.

I want whats best for the country as a whole I've seen nothing so far that doesn't suggest that in the short-mid term Brexit is going to be an extremely painful process and more than likely it will effect those areas of the country and people who are already suffering the most.

Potentially inflicting such significant issues on the country should consider us to pause & reflect on the decision, not continue on like a rudderless, captain less ship at night.

As i said before it could be the land of milk and honey and i sincerely hope it is, it could also be the equivalent of the titanic hitting the iceberg in which case the vast majority of the population of this country and are to put it politely 'screwed'

Re: Brexit
 

You accidently missed a bit from the article about Norway and Sweden...

And you are, (accidently, I am sure) in your linked example about Turkey, conflating queuing times with pharmaceutical Supply Change Management - pharma multi-country SCM isn't just about queuing, it's about potential impact of regulatory changes and the requirements for some components in the Supply Chain to have to get licences to Contract Manufactures (which they didn't need to before).

This article is from two legal experts in regulatory issues on EU Life Sciences Law

https://www.pharmalogisticsiq.com/lo...es-post-brexit

Re: Brexit
 

Is the Brexit position now that Norway is a good option?

Re: Brexit
 

I’m not engaging in a pointless repetitive argument best placed before a referendum that we’ve already had and we voted to leave.

Past quote from the likes of Campbell - Hestletine, Blair - all hardened Remainers: “If we don’t join Euro, it will be a disaster for UK.”

Best thing we ever did not joining it. The EU does not provide any benefits, they don’t spend their money, because it’s ours on us. They don’t do jack shit for us, only mock us and we do not need to be in their ugly corrupt club to do trade with them.