Re: Brexit discussion
 

Never understood this, Brexit doesn't mean we wont be allowed into the EU to work , Casually or otherwise.

What do you base that on?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

At the moment you are entitled to work in the EU automatically. We don't know what the future arrangements for that will be. It won't mean you're banned from working but you might need permits e.t.c which could also be unavailable for certain types of work.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That you know of...

Well, until a permanent (or even stop gap arrangement) is put into place for the time after March of next year you will not have the automatic right to do so anymore.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This basically, no casual work, you may well need a job to go to. I have seen it the other way where the brother of one of our senior manager who is Hungarian came over to work. He was 18 and wanted to improve his English and experience the UK. Both great ambitions. He was never out of work to be honest, to the point where if he didn’t like the job he had, he quit and got a different one later that day! His opinion of 18 year old British people wasn’t very high to say the least.

If I am looking through CVs, if someone has travelled and worked abroad, that is a big plus for me as it shows a toughness and ambition. Not the be all and end all but if I had two equal candidates and one of them has travelled, I would pick them.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No...it just looked like you didn't get it.

/Shrug

Most of your comments here to me have come off as "probably sarcastic" as I can't view them with any seriousness, so I suppose I should have just done the same with that one, too. Sorry I took it to be meretricious - won't make that mistake again.

Okay...this post, you said:

You are right that older people do suffer more due to cuts - I tried making that point to you in regards to services. You didn't seem to care about the shortage of workers later in life.

Secondly though (not as a question) but as a statement you said "let's not forget who trashed our economy". You did not put it as a question but as a statement, with emphasis, then answered your own statement with "Christ!".

That implies that you believe that Christ trashed the economy.

When you first posted as much I took pity on you (we all make typographical and grammatical errors, me more so than most) and decided not to call you out on it. Than when Ianch99 did, instead of just issuing a Mea culpa you denied the fact that it was an error and are now trying to make it look like you intended it come out that way.

You got it wrong, no big deal. Instead of just brushing it off though, you are making it out like everyone else is in the wrong.

You are the one who accused me of using the same language as Nazi Sympathizers...

You seem very eager to dish it out but can't stomach the response in return. Only most of ours have merit, yours is just the latest absurdity of the day.

You can go back to comparing the rest of us to Hitler / Nazi appeasers in the mean time...while claiming that it is nothing personal, and playing the victim, all at one go.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

This is not a personal dig, but your post reminds me. I've lost count of the number of times that I've seen people including politicians state "I know exactly what I voted for" only to express surprise that the country could not nominate a future European City of Culture or could not remain part of the Galileo Positioning System. Leave means leave peeps!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You may also have challenges with Healthcare cover, essential for long term assignments abroad if your company does not underwrite your health insurance. The long term status of EHIC post-Brexit is unclear ..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh, no Chloé, you are under a big misapprehension there. I have never intended to be rude to you, but it seems that my humour has been interpreted as scornful berating, so I apologise for that, but I'm still not sure what you meant by bad grammar! No worries, let's move on. :sorry:

Of course I am concerned by the potential shortage of workers in this country, but that won't be the fault of Brexit, it will be the fault of that ridiculous policy to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands. Theresa May was landed with that one by Cameron and now has to diplomatically extracate herself from it. Immigration should be restricted to those we need to fill our vacancies where we have a skills or labour shortage - that's what is important.

As for my 'Christ' comment, that was a word to express exasperation that people were already forgetting that Labour was responsible for not keeping sufficient balances in the budget to whether the economic storm. You must know that I was not blaming Him for our misfortune.

I really was not comparing you with Nazi sympathisers, either! That is taking things way to personally, and I would not think that of you from what I know of you so far. The comparison was with the way of thinking (ie negative and defeatist, as opposed to positive and thrusting), so sorry for that upset also, it was not intended.

I think you are misunderstanding me, from what I can gather from your posts. We are all entitled to our opinions of course, but the reason I am coming on strong is because there is a relentless number of posts indicating the worst possible scenario for Brexit, and it is just not true. I am merely pointing out that there is an alternative view which is by no means dystopian, but a venture into a brave new world.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:10 ----------

Yes, with different arrangements in place to protect the things we value.

The EU way is not the only way.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:13 ----------

That doesn't mean we will get the worst case scenario, though, does it? C'mon, lighten up! :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Leave means leave Old Boy. You can't be part of things like Galileo if you leave.
Next you'll be telling Germany that they can still win the World Cup. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Using coloured text or coarse adjectives fails to make you correct.
Others have explained the implications of being a third country as have I. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You can’t hide behind my (valid) coarse description of those unelected gravy train merchants.

A treaty between the UK as a third country and the EU could indeed include Galileo, for example. It is, of course up to the EU. But they are trying to punish us for leaving their sick venture.

Why are you, presumably a Brit, trotting out their line? You might not want Brexi, but now that the democratic decision has been taken, the keast you can do is stand behind that and criticise Brussels for trying to stiff us.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I actually prefer the blue text and coarse adjectives, Andrew. They are a lot more uplifting than your prophesies of doom!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not hiding behind anything.
Because I don't agree with anyone doesn't mean I have to use coarse language.
Because I've done my research and understand the rules, I don't throw my toys out of the pram everytime someone in the UK makes an impossible request of the EU. We agreed to and contributed to the boundaries as recently as November 2017!
Because I'm a Brit, I've learnt to respect our hardworking civil servants whose analysis Brextremists try and swerve. They give the impression that they would probably rather trust social media sites from St Petersburgh than the Queen's civil service. :(
I respect British business when it patiently explains supply chains and how any kind of Brexit will negatively impact the country. I know respecting business is not popular in the world when populists like Corbyn and Trump are in positions of power but I don't apologise for it.

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

I make no prophecies of doom, Old Boy. I share developments from the news, not from Narnia. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Describing the people we want to do business with as "turds" is uplifting? Dear me, you are not in the Cabinet are you? I mean, having 1 petulant child in Government is bad enough, but having more is frightening? :D

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------

I really want to know what "Brexi" is? It is either Brexit after too much Veno Callapso or its a whole new option on the table :)

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:02 ----------

OB, you misunderstand. I am not saying we will get the "worst case scenario", I am saying there is no solution on the table as yet. Talking about solutions, I am lightened up, with the help of a modest amount of Scottish medicine. Go Brexi!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Question from a thick leaver ;)

What sort of border does the EU want Ireland to have?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

One which doesn't have a physical presence in order for people to go back and forth across it as if it were the same country.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

oh . . . but they can't have that if the UK leave can they?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's easy the republic can become part of the UK .

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I am sure that idea will be popular.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The EU is duplicitous on the Irish border question. It is a lever they are pulling to try and make us stay in the Customs Union etc. Then we would be rule takers unable to trade freely on our own part.

And don’t forget France, who have blocked CAP reform; Germany who has engineered the whole thing so that the cash comes to them at every one else's cost.

The Irish border question is a complete red herring orchestrated by the Brussels turds and the perfidious Varadkar.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

you do know Republic is in the EU right and there no change of them becoming part of UK

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:39 ----------

what utter nonsense you do know the brexstremists want WTO rules don't you and under there rules there have to be a hard border eu don't control WTO rules

Re: Brexit discussion
 

or they can remain in the EU . . in which case the EU needs to look at ways in which to protect 'their' border against us nasty people in the UK :D



I know of at least 2 on here that don't :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I wouldn't bother, he was just trolling ..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Great to see the UK winning large warship contract from Australia. Shows that we can successfully trade with the rest of the world whilst still in the EU.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

here, have one of these Andrew :p:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/06/13.jpg

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Better not, you might lose your grip. 😁

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, you can, Andrew. As I keep saying, you need to think outside the box.

Just bake another cake. Simples. :D

---------- Post added at 18:26 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

What they want and what they will get might be two different things!

It will be a virtual border, monitored by technology. The EU is trying to make that idea appear nonsense to get leverage, but in fact it is perfectly possible. There will also be monitoring with cameras, but not necessarily on the actual border itself.

My bet is on the 'maximum facilitation' method or a variant of it. That makes perfect sense to me.

---------- Post added at 18:34 ---------- Previous post was at 18:26 ----------

That may be their stance, but that's just to keep the pressure up to intimidate Brussells and the remainer extremists.

As long as we secure a dealmwith the EU that provides for us to trade with the rest of the wofld outside of the EU's jurisdiction, I am sure that most Brexiteers will be satisfied.

If we end up with WTO rules, that will be a Brussells failure, and they will live to regret it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You can see a narrative forming here: if Mrs May does not get a "good" deal, one that both the EU and the UK can agree on then we fall back to WTO rules with all that entails. Of course, when this happens, we will patently worse off, in many respects than now, so what we will see from the Brexiteers and the right wing press is a proclamation of 'Betrayal!"

Just watch ... :)

Mystic Meg is available for parties (not Tory), bar mitzvahs and other sundry social events ...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Cabinet has an away week at Chequers lined up so by this time next week we should finally know what kind of relationship the Country wants with the EU and its solution to ensuring a soft border can be maintained in Ireland.
Rumours that BoJo might be forced to resign. No longer seen as a threat by May due to his declining popularity in the Party and recent actions.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, of course, it will be one or the other. The EU must choose. What other options are there that do not betray the wishes of the British electorate?

The reason we are in this position is because they sent Cameron, with his modest proposals, back to Britain with a thick ear. I think that was the point at which the tide turned as far as public opinion was concerned.

Now they can choose whether to have a friendly, co-operative arrangement with us, which most of us would prefer, or whether they want an aggressive competitor. They can only blame themselves if they make another wrong call.

Incidentally, with the WTO deal there will be some disruption for a while, but we will end up better off.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

em the EU have laid out there position it the uk Government that cant decide what they want OB

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Could I just ask, when was the last time there was a hard border between Eire and N.I?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

didn't they disappear as part of good Friday agreement

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The EU is playing a game by putting obstacles in the way. After the meeting of the Cabinet next Friday, the British Government will put a set of detailed proposals to Brussels. That will be the crunch moment. If the EU turn that down out of hand as they have done with precvious proposals, there will be a hard Brexit. As they clearly don't want that, I am sure that common sense will kick in, at last.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

how can there do that when they got no idea what uk want as they keep changing messages with all the infighting in government

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are in this position because of EU tactics. When we put the White Paper wording after next Friday's meeting withbthe Cabinet, I really think that will be the last chance szlloon.

It's Brussels that needs to step up. Don't allow yourself to be hoodwinked by EU propaganda. We all need to get behind May for tne best possible deal.

If the remainers manage to persuade the EU to say 'Non' to our detailed proposals, they will have secured for themselves a hard Brexit. I didn't think they wanted that.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

what utter nonsense OB we in this position because of UK government has not got a clue they had 2 years the Eu position been laid out from day 1: It you brexstremists that's living in fantasy island it the brexstremists that want a no deal fall off cliff to happen

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No, Dave, you have this completely wrong.

David Cameron pledged to the British people that he would hold a referendum on whether people wanted to leave the EU. He really did think the public would say that they wanted to remain, but he didn't bargain on the strength of feeling that resulted from the EU sending him back with his tail between his legs having put to them some extremely modest proposals, which fell short of what a lot of people wanted.

He was mortified when the electorate voted to leave, and he acknowledged his error by resigning.

It should be clear to everyone that this was an unexpected result as far as the establishment was concerned and we were not prepared for the 'no' vote.

Theresa May is picking up the pieces and has had to grapple with the deep intricacies of this situation. She has had to acknowledge that the public want immigration controlled, the feeling that we should be making our own laws and we should look for more trade outside the EU.

Everyone now surely understands that this is not an easy thing to achieve, even with a majority in Parliament, which TM doesn't have.

To attain what the British people have voted for, it has now become obvious to most people with a brain that we have to not only leave the EU, but also pull out of the Common Market and the Customs Union.

Clearly, this is not an easy nut to crack, but given the decision of the electorate and TM's lack of a majority, what would you have her do?

To my mind, she is more than half way to achieving her goal, and I think she will get there. If the EU stand firm and say 'Non', it will be the hard Brexit that no-one wants.

So, in all seriousness, Dave, what would you have her do? Betray the British electorate and say "oh, all right, then" to the EU or stand up for what the majority voted for?

You might not have voted for this yourself, but as a true democrat, I'm sure that you want the will of the electorate to be carried out.

What say you? Do you agree or do you agree?:shrug:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Spot on. David Davis has only spent four hours negotiating with his counterpart Barnier THIS YEAR. Until the UK Government decides what it actually wants, there is very little to negotiate. ;)

---------- Post added at 01:19 ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 ----------

The EU has been patiently awaiting the UK's proposals for two years and has had nothing to turn down.
The UK also has to honour the backstop agreement for the Irish border which it signed up to in December.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The British Government is well aware of how the EU negotiates. Lay all your cards on the table and they will just rubbish them from the start , for no good reason.

We are playing the EU at their own game and they don't like it. We will come up with a take it or leave it solution at a late hour - just see what they make of that! To refuse it would incur fury from other EU countries who value their trade with GB.

We assume that if you were leading the negotiations, you would have rolled over to have your tummy tickled (or perhaps a punch in the kidneys) a long time ago.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I thought this was a divorce not a game of cards.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The GFA makes no mention of borders other than cross-border cooperation. The EU insistence on no borders is a pure device to defeat Brexit.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Try and play the ball and not the man, Old Boy. And why the Royal we in "We assume.." :confused:
Anyway, Barnier issued an infographic showing exactly what the implications of various red lines would be once the UK issued Article 50. The EU can't alter its constitution to change these facts without the agreement of all EU members. And one key objective is to ensure that a country will be better off as an EU member than being a third country, or other countries might be tempted to leave as well.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do see just the two possible negotiations scenarios then? Tell them want we want (what we really, really want) and issue a "take it or leave it" ultimatum or give in to everything they want.

I fear this belligerent and rather myopic approach drives the internal divisions in the Tory party which is the guiding hand on the current (lack of) progress.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

Of course I am "Old"! If I wasn't, I would not have the "wisdom and experience" to know I am right :) :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There are different negotiating tactics available of course, but I was explaining that the EU have form when it comes to being particularly difficult. Cameron asked nicely and look where it got him. If something doesn't work, you don't keep making the same mistake over and over and hope for a better result, because it won't happen, will it?

So it's no more Mr Nice Guy this time around.

You will here lots of talk about how much May has already given away in these talks, and so I think it's reasonable to say we're not giving any more, now it's your turn.

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 ----------

It was right of me to ask what you would do, Andrew, given your constant criticism of the Government's approach.

By the way, i did miss out a word when I wrote 'we assume'. I meant to write 'we can assume'.

Yes, we've heard a lot about how the EU 'must stick to the rules'. However, when the rules are preventing you from achieving what you want, you can always change them! Or perhaps, a more practical approach would be to 'interpret' them.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You did not ask me how I would negotiate, you described how I would do so incompetently. There have only been four hours of negotiations this year between David Davis and his opposite number. I suggest that if you or I did one day of negotiating, we would have doubled his output. A quick win.
The main failure by the Government has not been to decide its position before invoking Article 50. That puts it at a disadvantage timewise.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think it's more a game of 'blind mans bluff' :D



Isn't that how the EU negotiate?

Re: Brexit discussion