Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I doubt they or anyone else is enjoying the situation.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No. Did you actually read my post? :confused:

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

Because they might want to make us suffer as an example to others who might think of leaving.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Apologies, it was unintentional.

To make it more precise, Bank of America has over 5,000 employees in the UK, JP Morgan around 16,000, Goldman Sachs around 6,000, Morgan Stanley around 5,000, and Wells Fargo around 1,000 - so around 33,000 jobs in total.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't really know what to say about that

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

you just saved 327,000 jobs ;)

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

Exposed: Labour's Brexit betrayal as deputy leader in Brussels deletes lines from key report in 'sneaky' attempt to water down EU terms


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ssels-deletes/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I rather 33,000 people didn't lose their jobs...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Really? A quick google:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...ffer-the-most/
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ish-trade-deal
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/wo...nion.html?_r=0
http://www.politico.eu/article/franc...david-cameron/

It's not in their interest to give us an easy ride on brexit terms in case that would embolden other wavering countries. But you, as an intelligent person, would have already reached that conclusion....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Revisit your posts. One says they have a plan, one says they're working on it. Playing for Man City and Man United, so to speak. ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

omg, they (obviously) have a plan that they are still working on. Plans invariably have to be worked on before they are ready to be implemented, rarely appearing fully formed. This really is like talking to a child, or are you being deliberately obtuse? :confused:

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ----------

Labour's Brexit betrayal as deputy leader in Brussels deletes lines from key report in 'sneaky' attempt to water down EU terms

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Just doing my hardest to get a straight answer and not a politician's one.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

you most certainly are .

---------- Post added at 09:02 ---------- Previous post was at 08:37 ----------

Brexit boosts spending: UK set for record-breaking Christmas shopping Bonanza


Oxford Street and Regent Street, said Brexit had given the West End a “positive boost, driven by an influx of international shoppers looking to make the most of the weak pound.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...ecord-breaking :sniper:

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

it started out at 360,000 -that's a project fear figure if ever there was one
that's a torrential out pouring of jobs .
but now upon reality check its down to a trickle if they move
this is a classic example of why the politics of fear have failed .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Labour duplicity? Surely not. I mean it's not as though during their last period in office they turned lies, spin and hypocrisy into an art form is it. :rolleyes:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The referendum seems to have sorted things out. We've all got a clear direction and know exactly where we're going now.... :erm:
Clip of Theresa M on Marr this morning telling us how terrible Brexit would be (pre-refererendum). Hypocrisy rules, power is everything...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'd be interested to know how you'd go about planning for something as complicated as this in which there are so many unknowns and variables. The straight answer would be that it's an ongoing process until negotiations are concluded and the plans will be changing accordingly. The other side will be doing exactly the same.

The truth is that whatever HMG does at this stage there'll be those who'll use it as a stick to beat them with.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

she's delivering democracy - a strange concept to remoaners -but you'll catch on eventually .;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Not something you'd want to make a decision on without knowing all the facts and consequences then? :rolleyes:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Clearly there is a plan. However, not only does the Government need to add some detail to it, that detail needs to be gone over and over in order to avoid unintended consequences and omissions. At the same time, our negotiating tactics need to be worked on methodically as well.

The Government was absolutely right to allow time for rigour in this process, and a March 2017 date seems entirely appropriate to me. The EU is going to try to make things as difficult as possible for us, even if they inadvertently or without care shoot themselves in the foot in the meantime. We have to be thoroughly prepared if the Government is to get the best deal for the UK.

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

There's no hypocrisy there, old chap. Theresa May was not the Prime Minister then and had to follow the Cabinet line. However, she was a remainer and stated the views she believed in at the time.

However, she now has to deliver the will of the people and so she is turning her attention to the opportunities available outside the EU. She wouldn't last five minutes as our PM if she said she was delivering the will of the electorate by concentrating only on the disadvantages of such a move. That would surely show stubborness and inflexibility. If you want that, vote for Corbyn.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Fair response, and I suspect you too feel sorry for the millions of British employers up and down the country having to do this plus the civil service who have been told to plan for Brexit without knowing what it is. You couldn't make the nonsense shown below up, and it's not helped by many of the best civil servants taking voluntary redundancy over the last five years.

Civil service complains at demands for post-Brexit budget plans
The Department for Exiting the EU (Dexeu), led by David Davis, has sent out a commission to permanent secretaries asking them to explain what the impact of Brexit will be on their staff numbers, budgets and resourcing.
Its request brought a bemused response. “At the moment, departments are writing up their core assessments on how Brexit might affect their operations after we leave,” said one Whitehall figure. “But it is all proving chaotic because none of us actually knows what kind of deal the government is aiming at.”
Google the headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/15df5764-...2-f57d90f6741a

Meanwhile, the possibility of the UK remaining in the EU Customs Union looks stronger today following comments from Liam Fox:

UK may try to stay in EU customs union, says Liam Fox
"The UK may seek a compromise deal to remain in the EU customs union, according to Liam Fox, the Eurosceptic minister for international trade.
In July, Mr Fox called for the UK to leave the customs union, which sets out common rules for checks on goods entering the EU, but he said on Sunday that there may not be a “binary” decision, suggesting that the government might seek some unspecified compromise deal."
Google headline or pay link at https://www.ft.com/content/f2f8b090-...3-7e34c07b46ef

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But it is complicated, Andrew. You can't blame the Government for that. It was the British people who voted for Brexit, after all!

This is certainly not a straight forward process and the Government is right to be taking a bit of time to study the consequences of this before entering into negotiations.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Project fear never stopped it's continuing each and every day with constant doom and gloom and even the brexit supporting media are playing into it. Never see anything but doom and gloom in detail any positive news is quickly buried under a fresh avalanche of more doom and gloom. Going by the media here and in Europe you'd be forgiven for thinking there is no pressure on the EU to reach a balanced deal with the UK. There is certainly in Germany merkel is having to give assurances that whatever deal will not negatively impact German car manufacturers more then is absolutely necessary. Italy and France are keen that goods continue as they are with minimal disruption and other nations are also using brexit to push for greater more meaningful EU reform. Good luck finding it in the media because if it's not doom and gloom or putting the UK down it doesn't show up much hell you could also be forgiven for thinking that the UK faced a totally united EU determined to extract the harshest conditions in the upcoming negotiations which is not the case.

Still never mind the UK right now has so many people willing to trash our country and take pleasure in predicting the worst and how we should be grateful for any deal with the EU that it's all irrelevant anyway.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I have got to pick you up on this repeated point that Brexit is the "will of the people". It is the will of 37% of the electorate. That's all that was required to win the referendum.

Consequently, she must take into account the impact of Brexit on the nation as a whole and not just the wishes of the minority that voted to Leave.

It is an irony that a Trades Union requires 40% of a total electorate (not merely votes cast) to trigger a strike whereas a vote to radically change the financial, cultural and political makeup of the whole country could have been decided by Bob in Essex ..

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

i see your doing the include the can't be arsed to vote score to make up your figures ,that's not how it works but you already know that .

its 52% ish of those who bothered to vote .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

l have accepted Brexit but it does not mean l have to agree willy nilly about it as there are things l don't agree with as politicians and large parts of the media will only tell what some want to hear and won't tell you what you don't want to hear.:)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

the gov are working hard or soft[ if that's what you want] to thrash out the willy and the nilly but its being overcome by the nitty and the gritty at this time .

if you tell me what you don't want to hear i'll do my best to make sure you don't hear it .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

l just want a well thought out Brexit plan which is going to suit this country in the long term and not one based on knee jerk reactions and without much thought.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Don't worry Den, the Goverment has issued the negotiation plan demanded by remainers:

"Politics is generally a mish-mash of hurly-burly. Remainers wrongly think the Government is dilly-dallying but there's a lorra-lorra wishy-washy mumbo-jumbo to be sorted out in the nitty-gritty. Our best eager-beavers will be doing a fair bit of wheeler-dealing to ensure the EU play boogie-woogie and making sure things don't go higgledy-piggledy. This will involve hob-nobbing with continental riff-raff to ensure there's no hanky-panky, especially with nilly's-willy, and everything will be hunky-dory".

Happy now? :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Now Kursk there is one thing you do need to learn and that is to talk in proper English diction as l can't quite understand all this mumbo jumbo old boy here.;):D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think the Government statement is written in the language Remoaners will understand :xmas:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

For someone who won a vote, you're very defensive and aggressive (at the same time). ;)

It must be frustrating when people use their democratic right to disagree with you, just like you did with previous governments' views and policies....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Or you are misunderstanding the friendly banter between Den and I in this season of goodwill :xmas:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Fears EU Brexit delays will spur bank exodus to eurozone
EU Brexit negotiators are insisting Britain agrees to its European divorce settlement before Brussels offers any transitional deal, expecting international banks to get cold feet over losing “passporting” rights and start shifting operations from London to the eurozone...
That process has already started with Lloyd’s of London, the 328-year-old insurance market, becoming the first major City business to put a timetable on plans to move a part of its operations to the EU in preparation for Brexit.
Last week a group of Japanese financial institutions told the British government they would begin moving functions from London within six months unless they received clarity on the UK’s future relationship with the EU.
Google headline or pay link https://www.ft.com/content/f136b774-...3-7e34c07b46ef

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

I do blame the Government for asking the civil service to prepare financial and staffing plans in the event of Brexit without defining what Brexit will mean. And I do blame the Government for not disclosing its plans as doing so should help prevent British job relocations.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If the people who didn't vote wanted to stay in the EU, then they should have voted. You have no basis to believe that all those who didn't vote were remainers anyway.

In any case, Brexit is good for the country. The EU is suffocating us and taking away our ability to shape the direction of travel for the UK. We have asked the people and they have answered. Now we need to get on with delivery.

As far as the unions are concerned, you are missing the elephant in the room. That is that only a proportion, often a small proportion, of employees who are also members of a trade union. So a company of 1,000 employees and only 100 trade union members need only 40 votes to strike. Looks a bit different when put like that, doesn't it?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Erm, no. The majority of those who voted, voted to leave. You can call it a minority but in that case those who voted to remain are even more of a minority. :rolleyes:
I take issue with your statement that those who voted to remain should have their wishes taken into account. They shouldn't. For the simple reason that their wish was to remain, which was the issue that they (you) lost over. Why the hell should the winners of this referendum allow the losers to dictate any terms since those are likely to be contrary to the wishes of the winning side?!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I am not claiming that all those that did not vote were Remainers so please don't say I did.

Not quite, a minority of the people "answered"

As to elephants in the room, I cannot see any.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

You need to understand that this is not roulette where winner takes all. This vote decided we leave the EU but the terms on which we leave should be decided by HMG who will consider the interests of the nation and population as a whole and not just a small minority of it.

You will have to come to terms with this as this process plays out. If not, you will be very disappointed ..

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't have to come to terms with that since leave won. You need to come to terms with losing and stop trying to move the goalposts/change reality to suit your world view. I'll be disappointed if the remoaners get much say in the outcome since their wishes are opposed to the winning sides desires.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

And a minority of those who answered voted to remain.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think it is reasonable to deduce that the probability is that non voters were split between remainers and exiteers in roughly the same proportion as those who voted.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yeah I'm sure the winner of the next general election will allow the losing parties to determine their policy just so the minority get their way. It'd be laughable if it wasn't pathetic.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

H'mm. Actually, I think that most people who voted to leave wanted to bring to an end to the free movement of people and bring back British sovereignty. What element of that do you not understand, and pray tell me how we are expected to bring that about if we stay in the common market?

Most people can see that the kind of arguments you espouse are simply a smokescreen for 'no change' promoters who don't want to listen to the majority.

How very undemocratic of you.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Referendums and elections are different. A political party gets elected to carry out its mandate. The referendum was a yes/no about remaining or leaving the EU and nothing more. A majority in favour of leave does not automatically mean a majority in favour of ending freedom of movement, leaving the single market, etc.

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:11 ----------

From the Government's point of view, it only has a mandate to leave the EU. That is the problem with a binary question like "remain" or "leave". People attach their personal interpretations to each choice that aren't there.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Then why are you so bothered about plans? We voted leave so leave it should be according to your point of view.

No negotiations, no deals.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

As a patriotic Brit who cares for his country, I want the Government to disclose its plans in order to stop more companies exporting British jobs to the EU. Some seem happy to sacrifice British people's livelihoods so the EU 27 don't learn of our intentions until March. As you can surmise, I don't share that belief.

I'm not sure as to why voting leave excludes negotiations or deals. It doesn't. Negotiations are a pre-requisite of leaving the EU; leaving the single market is possibly not a pre-requisite of leaving the EU it's being tested in the courts so we cannot say with certainty either way yet.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's far too simplistic a view .The 'winning side' is getting 100% of it's own way ,there is no doubt about that because we are leaving the EU ,that is what was voted for .However the terms of that departure are very much open for discussion,they should and will involve everyone because it will affect everyone.Trying to compare a referendum result with a general election result is totally bizarre and quite frankly smacks of desperation as people run out of arguments to keep remainers out of the equation .

---------- Post added at 07:07 ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 ----------

I voted out because i do not agree with the single market and freedom of movement ,i did not have British sovereignty at the forefront of my decision making simply because we have always retained the ultimate sovereignty ,it is that parliamentary sovereignty that is taking us out of the EU.I accept that some minor aspects of sovereignty were relinquished as a condition of EU membership but we have always retained Parliamentary sovereignty

---------- Post added at 07:15 ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 ----------

The government managed to give Nissan assurances that meant they would be staying so why can't the government do the same for the rest of industry ?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Good luck with that one. Once it hasn't happened you can come down from that dream cloud.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yes it is a simple/simplistic comparison but it's purely intended to make a point, nothing else. Anything would be 'simple' in comparison to the exercise we are now embarked upon so what other analogy wouldn't be? Nobody here seriously expects remainers not to have a view about what happens now but it's perfectly clear that a good number or people would like to see the result reversed or bogged down in legal challenges to the point that it stalls so it's perfectly acceptable to challenge that.

As for the deal being done and dusted - I think we're a long way from that and what I fear isn't constructive debate, it's deliberate attempts to delay and confuse the process which then leads to other remainers claiming HMG isn't being decisive and hasn't got a plan blah blah blah. If we're not careful and the EU doesn't fall apart before the exit finally takes place, we could just find ourselves securing a deal which nobody is happy with.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In a general election the Government is elected with a manifesto. In a referendum the Leave campaign won with a mandate to leave the European Union. Anything after that is a matter in which the whole country has a say.

Brexit and the subsequent deal will be one of the biggest events in our modern history and it's consequences, good and/or bad, will be be felt across the country and maybe even for generations to come. It's sheer lunacy to demand that only the 52% that voted for it have input into that. It's also pretty stupid tactically to intentionally attempt to provoke 48% of people who voted Remain.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

parliament might have a say but "the whole country" ? i doubt the advice of the people will be sought at every decision ,its down to members of parliament now .

if things run true to form mp's on either side will follow their own agenda despite what 48% v 52% want .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Parliament represents the country or at least in theory it does. Either way Parliament is how I would want it to work so that's fine.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

represents the country might be pushing it a bit -we must keep a watchful eye on them or it all might go pear shaped once they start representing themselves .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's why we have regular elections.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Agreed. That reassurance had the whiff of make-it-up-as-you-go-along politics.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

would you have liked to have a vote on it ?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well explained. I really don't get why some people fail to understand this point.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

No, I'm all referendumed out. ;) But mainly because they're the elected Government whose role it is to manage the situation. I remain at liberty to criticise them when I perceive they're not doing a good job.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

So what's the EU's position and plan do we know yet?.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Interesting. However, if we had voted to remain, would the remainers have listened to the exiteers on what kind of Europe we wanted it to be?

I doubt it, somehow.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

They are busy waiting for us to get our act together enough to give them a clue of what we want .They can't do a damn thing until they know what we want

---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Then it's down to all voters,brexiters and remainers to ensure that doesn't happen.

---------- Post added at 16:55 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Well that's a bit of a nonsense thing to say .We where voting to either stay in Europe or leave Europe ,there was never an option to change Europe to our way of liking ,the only thing we can change is our membership

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

A bizarre comment. A vote to remain was for the status quo, it wasn't to join the Eurozone or to alter our relationship with Europe in any way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Except to remain would mean ever closer union and erosion of the individual nations - the avowed aim of the EU and NOT the status quo.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

what about soft remain or hard remain
who interprets what remain means
would there be another referendum before we officially remained
would the government trigger remain or would it go to the courts so that parliament could interfere
---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

was that bit about status quo on the ballot paper ?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Just suppose you're right (I don't believe you are for one moment but that's incidental) and greater integration was proposed. That would be up to the Government of the day to decide upon, not those who voted one way or the other in a previous referendum about staying in the EU.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The leave side didn't take this to the high court, remain did (Gina Miller). Leave aren't proposing terms that are identical to us staying in, in all but name, remain are (Nick Clegg). Leave aren't trying to get the govt to disclose it's thinking and planning prematurely, leave are.
Who's provoking who?

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

Article 50 may have already been triggered

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'd be careful Ramrod IIRC the hairdresser was a Brexetee but I can't find where I saw that.

Gina Miller only put her name on it as the lead complainant to promote herself and her (joint with husband) own company profile.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-mr-hedge-fund

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

So much wrong there but I'll just point out one thing. Leave voter Deir Dos Santos took the legal case against Article 50 as well as others including Gina Miller.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

and just how exactly do we know how he voted did any one else see the ballot paper ;)


http://uk.businessinsider.com/jo-mau...rnment-2016-12




The man behind a fresh Brexit legal case says there is ample evidence to suggest that the UK government has already triggered Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.
"If you look at the terms of Article 50 itself, one of the terms is there has to be a decision and there has to be notification. The government's position is there has been a decision. So, what you're left with is the requirement that there be notification. We know that in October Theresa May met with her fellow leaders at an EU council meeting and told them we were leaving. Now, there's no requirement in Article 50 that notification must be served on heavy watermarked paper. There is no requirement for formality at all.

"If you then cast your net more widely and you look around at the surrounding circumstances, you can see that the EU are now meeting privately without us. Article 50 says this is something that is not supposed to happen until after we have triggered it. If you look at the fact that the EU has appointed negotiators — that's something that's not supposed to happen until after we have triggered Article 50. If you look at the fact they've formulated their negotiating strategy — that's something that shouldn't happen until after you trigger Article 50.

i like the sound of that Ramrod

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

We know the same way that we know how Gina Miller voted. ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

the same we we know i voted remain

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well you seemed to know exactly how he voted back in post 3225

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Strange ....a few pages back you accused him of trying to stop Brexit with his court case ...now you have actually read the story you approve

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

post 3225 i see no mention of him

i accused or the newspaper did

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think it wouldn't be needed if it wasn't for this attitude that almost half the country should have no say in any Brexit agreement. As I said this is a deal which will impact everyone and decides a lot of the future of the country. The idea only May gets to decide what future is what a lot of people, including many Leavers, object too.

And you will too if it turns out you don't like the deal. What if it becomes the type of Brexit Boris wanted instead of the kind of deal Farage wants? The EU are already having public press conferences about their end, it's not all going to fall apart to give us some idea of the rough direction we're going.

After all it appears she is willing to brief and make assurances to Nissan. Parliament should have that right too.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Like what? :confused:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Who's idea is that and if it is only an idea....

How many leavers are you lumping into your "idea"?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's an idea and any leavers who understand British democracy will object too.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Well that answered the question didn't it!

Now we can object to ideas!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Are you seriously expecting people to believe you don't share the views of rag you keep posting from .Of course if you don't then now is your chance to set the record straight on your views regarding the various court cases and what you would like to see from the negotiations.

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 22:59 ----------

It's the idea of all those who think Parliament should have no say and judging by this forum it's the idea of most leavers

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Not at all, I certainly didn't say that.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

[QUOTE=martyh;35876690]Are you seriously expecting people to believe you don't share the views of rag you keep posting from .Of course if you don't then now is your chance to set the record straight on your views regarding the various court cases and what you would like to see from the negotiations.[COLOR="Silver"]


you accused me either put up your evidence or shut up

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In fairness he didn't mention you, he just said "judging by this forum it's the idea of most leavers".

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In fairness he did by quoting my post just as I'm mentioning you by quoting yours.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He was just replying to you.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Then I would've preferred he'd actually answered my question. He's not a politician by any chance?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Do you think we should still commit to the 50/60 billion we agreed to pay before we leave the EU?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm tempted to say bill it to those who voted leave who as a windfall tax. :D I guess it depends on what we legally and morally should pay.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yous asked who's idea ?
i answered
"It's the idea of all those who think Parliament should have no say and judging by this forum it's the idea of most leavers"

---------- Post added at 06:35 ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 ----------

[QUOTE=papa smurf;35876693]I did ,i quoted the post you used to incorrectly state that the court cases where trying to reverse Brexit ,which is completely wrong ....post 3225 ,you posted it and you believe it and your past posts confirm it .

Once again i will give you the chance to confirm or deny whether you believe the crap you post ,you have the chance here to tell everyone exactly what your thoughts are regarding the various court cases and what you think the government should do .Or you can continue posting inaccurate,alarmist rubbish and confirm what i already suspect

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Post 1: No, it's chicken and egg. You may hold that view, but you need to realise that the EU will not allow any informal discussions prior to our triggering Article 50. That makes our preparations for the talks proper more difficult and clearly that means it will take more time.

Post 2: How is it nonsense? If we leave, there is a little question of how we can stay within the common market without the free movement of people. Given the EU's intransigence on this point, we are left with little choice other than to go for a hard Brexit if we are to give people what they want.

You know as well as I do that many people don't like the way Europe is run, and that's why David Cameron tried to negotiate something better, but he failed. That is one of the main reasons why he lost the referendum. Had it gone in his favour by 52% to 48%, the issue of the kind of Europe we want would still be there and people would still be pushing for change. However, I can imagine what the attitude of the remainers would have been to that discontent!

---------- Post added at 08:07 ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 ----------

In which case, as we voted to leave, why are the remainers not accepting that straight forward vote.

There are 'buts' with both options.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

As Denphone and many others have said, the vote has been accepted. The Prime Minister herself is a "remainer" though that term is now some six months out of date.
Do you seriously believe that the Article 50 challenge is not about due process but some dastardly conspiracy to prevent the UK leaving?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

YES! Next stupid question.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Do you seriously believe that city corporations, private citizens and foreign UK residents like Gina Miller who nobody had previously ever heard of, are suddenly such passionate defenders of the Westminster model of democracy that they're prepared to chuck great piles of their own money at "defending" it? Why do you think Miller demanded the government accept the ruling at the high court and not appeal to the Supreme Court? Because the real truth is, she doesn't give two short smegs for our constitutional arrangements and doesn't understand that once the balance of power between Crown and Parliament has been challenged, history itself demands that it be settled at the highest level. Instead, she dim-wittedly suggested that the government should be "honourable" and not pursue an appeal. The base ignorance of it from someone who took it upon herself to challenge the very basis of the British constitution is shocking.

That balance is at the very heart of what Britain is. Families in these islands shed each others' blood over it. That makes this Supreme Court case very necessary and important, without altering the fact that the process was triggered by bad motives the plaintiffs have not had the courage to own up to.

Of course this court case isn't going to prevent the UK leaving; of course that is not its stated aim. The whole point of this action, and others like it (there is a ludicrous attempt in the courts of the Irish Republic at the moment, trying to engineer a way for the ECJ to have its say on the process) is to delay Brexit for as long as possible, in the hope the country will go to hell in a handcart in the meantime. Arch-remainers know they can't openly demand a referendum re-run right now, but if the polls shift dramatically then they will have the pretext they're hoping for.

Delay, delay, delay and hope something turns up. That's what it's all about.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

In which case, how come the Article 50 is financed by leavers like Deir Dos Santos then?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

lol! Are you asking that with a straight face? :D

---------- Post added at 08:59 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

Excellent post :tu:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Theresa May has confirmed that the Article 50 challenge hasn't delayed anything so what's the big deal?
Gina Miller is not a "foreign UK resident". Where do you get this idea come from? I fear it has influenced your interpretation of her motives somewhat. She is British and was born in a British Commonwealth country, British Guiana which is now called Guyana and grew up in England. She has battled many issues including fund management charges in the public interest and this is another issue she feels strongly about. She and her husband have been major contributors to the Margaret Thatcher infirmary at the Royal Hospital Chelsea. The fact that you have not heard of her before is irrelevant.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

Yes but not to your good self, to Old Boy.
I fear that your views are as per the quote from Stephen Philips that I posted recently, "The leavers, you might imagine, would be brimming with seasonal good cheer. For some, this is the culmination of a life’s political work. They should be dancing in the streets. Instead, gripped by a fear that verges on paranoia, they see dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway."

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Maybe because we have such little faith in the liberal, pro-EU elite in actually carrying out the wishes of the electorate?

I voted "leave" in full knowledge (see project fear) that it would mean removing EVERY EU tentacle binding this country. For me there's nothing to negotiate and we stop paying. IF the EU wants to make a trade deal with us, then fine, but we should not be grovelling to the EU as so many times before.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

[QUOTE=martyh;35876720]Yous asked who's idea ?
i answered
"It's the idea of all those who think Parliament should have no say and judging by this forum it's the idea of most leavers"

---------- Post added at 06:35 ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 ----------

you have dug your self into this hole crawl out with dignity

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The issue about whether to go back to the country on the terms of our leaving is clearly preposterous. It is clear that the EU don't want us to be allowed to scrap free movement AND remain in the common market. Theresa May is committed to getting the best possible deal for Britain. What is there not to like?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think heero_yuy answers your question for you on behalf of some leavers. I hope he doesn't mind my reusing his wisdom here:

But to return to my original question. Do you seriously believe that the Article 50 challenge is not about due process but some dastardly conspiracy to prevent the UK leaving?

---------- Post added at 10:33 ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 ----------

Not for another referendum but surely to Parliament?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Totally agree:

Theresa May declines to rule out paying EU for single market access

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Only a fool would equate the Brexit referendum with a General Election ...

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Absolutely correct. Having tariff free trade deals, continuing co-operation on security and intelligence, together with protection for British citizens working in the EU and EU citizens working here is all we need. We certainly do not want to be saddled with EU laws, free movement and the sheer bureaucracy of this undemocratic institution called the EU.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

So long as you do not misrepresent me. LOL


I believe I answered that so to be clear: I believe that all the legal challenges are using pre-texts such as "due process" as a thin veneer to cover a pro-EU stay campaign based on delaying our proper departure until a more EU friendly government (Labour quisling Libelite traitor) is eventually elected that rams us straight back into the EU fold.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Of course it is a conspiracy. The extent of the agreement Theresa May can get with the EU will be put to Parliament. That is all that is required.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Thanks everyone for taking the time to share your views.

Meanwhile, more information about the Government's likely stance has been revealed. "Theresa May has announced for the first time she wants to negotiate a transition deal to help smooth Britain’s EU exit after 2019.
She told MPs on Tuesday there had to be time for the UK and EU economies to adjust and deal with “simple practical matters” such as updating IT systems after the UK’s divorce.
Mrs May insisted Britain could conclude a divorce agreement and forge a new trade deal with the EU within two years of starting exit talks in March 2019."
Google "Theresa May pushes for EU Brexit transition deal" or subscription link at https://www.ft.com/content/7a432a59-...d-5d78c7698fa7